Is WoW Pay 2 Win?

[beanman12345]

You still get a house, though? Unlike a boost, where you have a chance for loot but there is no security at all?

Who's buying a boost and not getting any loot?

[Lochton]

Who's buying a boost and not getting any loot?

You can purchase a boost through a raid, without any loot dropping at all for your class. There are of course groups that charge more gold for you to have a higher chance of getting loot, but still not a security, unlike the purchase of a house, where you'll get it and not just lose your money.

[rhorle]

Same here. He needs help, if he actually play WoW for more than 8hrs a day or something like that. Is not normal to defend a game company like that, specially when the company is clearly abusing its player base. Another reason that i left WoW. P2W and the Toxic community.

You don't need to play 8 hours a day to earn "close to" passive gold. If you are an enchanter you can de stuff to sell the crystals. Before the covenant gear fix you could trade anima directly for a crystal. If you are Venthyr (and maybe others) you can pick Theotar to get a chance at herbs from every kill that grants experience/honor. That adds up if your server prices are still high. If you do the misson table for the fishing sack you can sell those fish for a decent amount. My server still has fish going 20 to 30g each.

You left WoW yet are here discussing? You are insult a person that enjoys playing the game yet claim the community is toxic? Its clear the one who suffers an addiction is the one who can't stay away or accept that others can do something they no longer enjoy.

[beanman12345]

You can purchase a boost through a raid, without any loot dropping at all for your class. There are of course groups that charge more gold for you to have a higher chance of getting loot, but still not a security, unlike the purchase of a house, where you'll get it and not just lose your money.

And you still get loot in your vault. there is your security.

[rhorle]

Who's buying a boost and not getting any loot?

Cutting Edge and Keystone Master are two popular boosts that are not directly bought for gear.

[Lochton]

And you still get loot in your vault. there is your security.

That is not a product of your boost, nor is it security of being BiS or even useful at all.

[rhorle]

And you still get loot in your vault. there is your security.

So now you pay real money for great vault? Lol. You keep having to stretch. What is next saying the monthly subscription is paying to win?

[beanman12345]

That is not a product of your boost, nor is it security of being BiS or even useful at all.

Eh think you are just trying to be pedantic at this point.

- - - Updated - - -

So now you pay real money for great vault? Lol. You keep having to stretch. What is next saying the monthly subscription is paying to win?

No, but reading comprehension can fix many woes.

[panda040]

* I was late into Shadowlands
* I came back in, got the gold I already had plus maxed out tokens. They sold in a day.
* I bought myself 2 Heroic Castle runs with 5 stacks each and KSM.

Tell me again how it doesn't put anyone ahead of anyone else? Im confused. My other guildie is still grinding for KSM because he's desperate for that mount. But I just got it in a few hours LOL. I was just watching Asmongold highlights on YouTube while all this was happening.

Also, i might just go ahead and buy myself a 2100 boost and /lol at the people trying to grind their way to 2100.

WoW's built in token system says I just have to buy my gold and watch YouTube and chill while the people who are too poor, well i mean they'll get there... eventually.

This is where someone says : WELL WHY ARE YOU EVEN PLAYING THE GAME, HOW DUMB CAN YOU BE (this isn't the argument so try to avoid this trap)

This is where someone also says: WELL ITS LATE INTO THE PATCH SO YOU ARE JUST CATCHING UP WITH THE REST (is this why Im already making arrangements towards paying for Sanctum?)

Now all this being said, PLEASE dont remove the token system LOL. I cannot sit there and bash my head against the wall for something I can just buy. Im sorry, im not doing that anymore.

This attitude right here is why the game is pay to win, because people are willing to pay to get an advantage over those unwilling to pay. The advantage here is blizzard retains more users, as people are able to cash in to move to the higher bracket of players, even if they lack the skill and/or time commitment to obtain what players who dedicated more time and/or are skilled enough to earn of their own merit.

The negative consequence of this is it takes away all the prestige of actually getting anything cool in the game. Except for extremely high io score or r1 in pvp. I don't think anyone is good or a skilled player because people like Sanstos just pay people to get carried and get good gear. I don't blame him, he is just being efficient with his time. It's up to blizzard to remove these systems and make peoples skill/commitment matter again. A good system would force him to get better/put more time in the game to earn that prestige. This is how the game used to be and its the same reason why no one cares anymore if you have a glad mount/ksm/aotc etc

[Kanegasi]

No, WoW is not "pay 2 win".

There is no player power in leveling. There is no gray area.

[Lochton]

Eh think you are just trying to be pedantic at this point.

Well, it is true though? Just because you have gold does not mean you'll get BiS. You are purchasing a chance to get what you want (unless curve/KSM is all you really want)

[rhorle]

No, but reading comprehension can fix many woes.

Wait. You are saying the great vault is not pay to win if you get a boost? But it is the loot you are guaranteed from a boost so the buying a token to pay for that boost is pay to win

[Lochton]

Thank you!. Now i hope they understand with this point.

If you participate on that P2W crap with the Tokens (Both as a token seller and buyer), you create a super abusive environment for other players, who feel forced to do it, in order to:
1) Avoid paying $$ game time with gold
2) Using the gold you earned from the token to buy everything you want from the AH, making things more expensive and creating a poor experience for the people who doesnt buy gold
3) The guy that think he is super smart because he doesnt pay $$ for WoW subscription, but in the end, spends hours and hours playing the AH.

Wow, so quick to suddenly tag people for P2W just because they might not be able to get game-time in other ways than gold?

Aaaand we're back to WoW having been P2W since TCG, and the token is just a minor thing compared to gambling P2W.

[beanman12345]

Well, it is true though? Just because you have gold does not mean you'll get BiS. You are purchasing a chance to get what you want (unless curve/KSM is all you really want)

if curve/ksm is what your after, your not paying the premium for the BIS, but still paying to win, since curve/ksm is the goal, and your paying to achieve goal with money. If your paying the premium you'll get something, maybe not useful, which unless your continuously buying boosts, it'll be useful. And if you are constinuously buying boosts, you'll be decked BiS eventually.

[Dvedder]

Guys, let's face the correct issue here. Are P2W ppl bad or just lazy?

[Lolites]

Don't you think is Pay to Win, to take out your wallet, use your credit card in Blizzard Web Page, purchase a Token, wait for the gold to arrive to your mail and then buy a space in the next raid + paying gold for the drops?...or even PvP rank wins?.

Is Pay to Win.!

so wow wasnt p2w before token, when people bought gold from shady website and use it to buy bis item or boost from someone? or when they straight up used RL money to buy boost on internet... or bought WoW TCG cards, and then sell mounts/pets from those, some for MILIONS...
i might see someones logic behin WoW being p2w bcs you can buy gear/ boosts (although i disagree), but then it ALWAYS, since the very begining was p2w, and it have nothing to do with token... you could buy gold, items or boost since vanila ffs, years before token was even idea...

[derekmmorgan94]

It is definitely p2w in a sense. And seems to get worst and worst every expansion. I won't be surprised in 5 years if it's fully p2w in as in buying raid/pvp sets. I am not sure why people think buying gold through wow tokens is in no sense p2w. Competitive mythic raid teams save millions if not billions of gold to literally get a head start with boe's every new raid. Which is clearly an advantage to someone who doesn't pay. You can use gold to get carried through raids and pvp... If we had a guild go around and take $1000+ real money to get you full bis gear, that would be frowned upon. Especially if everyone did it and you did not have $1000+.... But if you play blizzard $1000+ and give the guild gold it's cool and not pay2win? I don't understand. WoW is p2w.

[Lolites]

Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else

well... didnt you prove yourself wrong?
you simply cant buy better gear than anyone else...
at best you can buy few pieces AS GOOD as mythic raiders but no matter how much money you spend you cant buy better...

[rhorle]

if curve/ksm is what your after, your not paying the premium for the BIS, but still paying to win, since curve/ksm is the goal, and your paying to achieve goal with money. If your paying the premium you'll get something, maybe not useful, which unless your continuously buying boosts, it'll be useful. And if you are constinuously buying boosts, you'll be decked BiS eventually.

So now it is pay to win eventually. So what fraction of pay to win is one token?

[Lochton]

Guys, let's face the correct issue here. Are P2W ppl bad or just lazy?

Well, we've discussed and still are, what P2W truly is in WoW.

And I've mentioned or tried to, about how long we've had P2W but people seem to believe the token was the start, others, the boost - and for me, if token is P2W, then WoW was P2W since October 2006.

As for the people, they can be bad, lazy, busy, not caring, or unable to find people to achieve something with.