You are somewhat correct. But the problem is blizzard being okay with it being p2w. If blizzards wanted they could ban accounts for RMT. But they use it as a problem to not only save money by not hiring mods to ban RMT, but make money with WoW tokens. And they are technically still rumors so I won't get too into it but it would seem as if blizzard allowed sites to RMT to get extra money/ create a problem to "fix" with WoW tokens.. So in a sense yah as long as gearing/boosts is available for money it is p2w even before WoW token. If blizzard was like many other games*many who are way smaller companies with smaller funds* and banned people for breaking terms of service with RMT the p2w is gone. But instead Blizzard is greedy and wants to make more money at the expense of the game.
"Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."
Last edited by Lochton; 2021-06-07 at 09:41 PM.
FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..
how many people got bans for missusing bugs? literaly tens of thousands every now and then, and yet when new "lucrative" bug is what people do? missuse the shit out of it... so no, baning people for selling shit wouldnt stop it, only if they gave permabans, and that would cost them WAY TOO MUCH players, so ofc they couldnt do that...
so yes, even though it was against TOS blizz didnt care much about people selling money/items/boosts (hell my old guild we were selling for over decade), problem blizz wanted to solve with token was shady websites and people using phishing and other shit and compromising security of players, they cant have that, so they came up with token to solve this, and ofc, make some money (what a surprise, business that want to make money...)
Gambling is when you pay for a chance to win or lose. If buying a token and using it for a boost does not guarantee you a "win" then it would be gambling. Because you are paying for the chance to lose as well as the chance to win. Pay to Win requires there to be no chance to lose right? Otherwise it would just be gambling. Right?
"Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."
Well, update, he wasn't paid 200 million, he was paid less, the stocks made it 200 million, following on another update, (most likely a media stunt) he rejected his payment offered which had been in negotiation since 2018 and agreed on a salary cut.
Further on, don't derail an already volatile topic with bullshit like that. Conspiracy theories do not belong on MMO-champion, so take your tinfoil hat and go to some Discord with that.
As for the income of Blizzard, yes, D3+exp, SC2+exp, Overwatch, HotS, WoW, Classic Project, Hearthstone, Warcraft. That is how a business makes money, selling a product. That is how you earn gold in WoW, selling a product. Everyone sells a product, whether you agree to it or not. A service or an item, sales, and trades.
FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..
Well, with the token Blizzard permitted all to enjoy this service, before that, it was exclusively bound to gambling with TCG. So, if the token is P2W, then TCG is too, and it was worse.
That of course means we are not including all the ToS breaking indirect P2W, since people love spouting about direct and indirect P2W. If we went with indirect only, then WoW has been P2W since its launch.
FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..
FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..
Yeah, it is. There is one area in the game which makes it tolerable for me though - highend raiding. If mythic paid boosts were more available I wouldnt be playing.
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Current state of season 1 PvP is pure P2W. Thousands of boosters in 2s, 3s and RBGs.
People sell tokens > trade the gold for boosts that they can't get themselves > P2W
The fact that you can buy gold with real money and boosting is absolutely fine makes the game P2W and the argument "it's not because you can do it without paying" falls flat since those people CANNOT do it without paying.
Man often meets his destiny, on the path he takes to avoid it.
The Auction House requires someone else to win and to share their loot with you. That isn't paying to win. The token is a micro transaction for gold but not paying to win. What you do with that gold is up to you. You can give it away. You can spend it on a mount (which isn't pay to win). You can buy gear. You can buy a boost. The transaction itself isn't paying to win because you are not winning anything.
You are merely gaining opportunities that wealth brings.
"Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."
FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..
That is a bit silly. It matters if something is against the rules or allowed. That is also making the argument that any game that charges any amount of money is pay to win. Because someone somewhere had to pay money for the box, subscription, or whatever other price not covered. It dilutes the meaning of pay to win and defeats the purpose of having a categorical descriptor.
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You are confusing important with "winning". Not everything is a win just because it exists and is important to some one. That dilutes the meaning of pay to win because that is literally anything in the game. Simply subscribing to the game could be seen as a win for someone thus making subscriptions pay to win. If everything is pay to win then nothing is pay to win. It just is.
"Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."
Now we're getting on a point I mentioned far back in the thread, that any game is P2W if they have the ability to trade currency with other players, some examples of course, breaks ToS, but then someone started talking about direct and indirect P2W, and suddenly it got more fleshed out, as that would mean illegal sales of game-time would be indirect P2W.
Then again, someone shared some definitions that P2W involves purchasing power/gear/buffs from the developer, which is a correct statement, which would categorize the boost as P2W, while the token is more in the grey - if we talk direct P2W
But if we talk indirect P2W, then we have things such as...
... ToS breaking game-time sales (Purchase game-time from Blizzard to sell) for gold.
... ToS breaking merchandise sales (Purchase game merch from Blizzard to sell) for gold.
... Sale of TCG (Loot cards)
... Sale of Token (Game-time)
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Well, we know by fact, someone claims winning is getting all achievements. But then we circle back to winning being subjective.
FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..
ALLLLLLLLLRIGHTY THEN! Let's get to it then:
First, if we talk about winning, it's absolutely pointless as it has been pointed out a million times, everyone has their own idea of their "winning". I won the game by collecting 5 ruined pelts from lvl 1 mobs, and that's a fact no one can change. It's my win.
Then, let's once again talk about paying to win. So, I assume you aswell say the gold-buying -> buying a boost is a pay to win, yes?
Before I will make you(and for everyone else aswell) an example, I want to state once again, that wow is not pay to win at all.
(Obviously at this point we have to agree atleast on some degree what the heck that "winning" means because of what I said previously about my own terms of winning, so let's say winning is getting that high-end gear, a title, achievement, a place in a raid or a gladiator title, it can be all of these, or just one)
I hope we have an agreement here(?) So then, to the example:
Ok, so you and many claim wow is pay to win, which I disagree strongly. You claim by buying gold, you gain power, which indirectly means wow is pay for win.
Allright, so you and I are on the same realm, playing like normal people do, suddenly you decide to "buy that win" with money, so you purchase gold, and you are now packed with 5 million gold, whereas I sit on 3.5 gold.
You start the process of getting yourself these "wins" you claim you can buy, BUT! Now pay close attention what is about to happen.
I cockblock your all attempts of getting a boost, gladiator title, raidspot, and gear. I did it by paying money to all the boosters you contacted.
Now, where is your "win"?? You paid a thousand pounds to get 5 million gold, yet still you are sitting at 158 ilvl, no title, no raidspot, no glad.
I went through a huge effort, and paid a thousand pounds to not get you anything, so where is the pay to win aspect here? Is wow suddenly pay-to-let-others-lose?
You gain nothing, blizzard will not give you your money back, they wont boost you or give you glads, so what did you win?
How was this pay to win?
You all have to understand that boosts are done by us, the players and the community of wow. We are the ones who enable it, and buy it, no one else.
Boosting has been here pretty much always, and I'm willing to bet my left nut that someone has bought a boost in vanilla, 17 years ago.
Also, if you consider "winning" these titles, glad, high-end gear or whatever, every game is pay to win, because in every game where there are achievements, a rank or whatever competetive shit, you can buy yourself these things. Every. Time. Even on the dredged "PONG" who someone mentioned earlier being the only game "non pay to win" has it's elements whereas one could say it's "pay to win"(Remember, "winning" is a personal thing here).
Pay to win, means you can buy power. For example go to blizzard store, select a trinket with stats -> 8€ -> cash out and check mailbox and said trinket is there.
That, ladies and gentlemen, is paying to win. It is not pay to win when you give basedweller Larry a handjob and he grinds 2200 rating for you.
Do I get to buy the top rank in any/all arenas? Epic BGs? World-first raids?
Your answer should be no. As is the answer to this thread's question.