Is WoW Pay 2 Win?

[shoc]

maybe, but then its p2w SINCE BOEs and carries, so since vanila...

Yes, vanilla was P2W too. Who doesn't know someone who sold their accounts for cash? That was super common until WOTLK, when they cracked down on account-selling somewhat. My buddy sold his AQ geared lvl 60 before TBC came out, bought a motorcycle. Account buying is P2W, probably one of the earliest forms.

[rhorle]

Can I with a wow token use the gold from that to buy ahead of the curve, gear, consumable, or the highest pvp rating? If yes, then it is p2w as I have technically completed the hardest content not through skill but with my credit card.

You mean gold. You completed the "hardest content" not through skill but with gold. The win was paid for with gold. You bought gold as part of a microtransaction but you did not buy the win with your credit card. If that makes it pay to win the so does a subscription fee right? Because anything you do in the game is made possible by the subscription fee.

So wouldn't the entire game be pay to win?

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Yes, vanilla was P2W too. Who doesn't know someone who sold their accounts for cash? That was super common until WOTLK, when they cracked down on account-selling somewhat. My buddy sold his AQ geared lvl 60 before TBC came out, bought a motorcycle. Account buying is P2W, probably one of the earliest forms.

The problem with that though is it was against the rules. You can cheat at any game but that doesn't mean every game is pay to win just because it is possible to do. If I pay someone to play Tetris for me that doesn't make Tetris pay to win.

[Stardrift]

Oh and whose definition does? I'd like a link

The phrase itself? Lmao the term is self explanatory lmao who tf digs their own grave this far lmao

Seriously though. Buy currency -> buy auctionhouse gear/carries with said currency = The very definition of pay to win.

[arkanon]

The problem with that though is it was against the rules. You can cheat at any game but that doesn't mean every game is pay to win just because it is possible to do. If I pay someone to play Tetris for me that doesn't make Tetris pay to win.

This is an important distinction that I see many people failing to make: Trying to include 3rd party services that go directly against the TOS of the product cannot be compared with actual services provided and supported by the publisher.

[Hydro-Djinn]

You mean gold. You completed the "hardest content" not through skill but with gold. The win was paid for with gold. You bought gold as part of a microtransaction but you did not buy the win with your credit card. If that makes it pay to win the so does a subscription fee right? Because anything you do in the game is made possible by the subscription fee.

So wouldn't the entire game be pay to win?

I obtained the gold with a token. I swiped my credit card for $20, and blizzard gave me gold. I did zero in-game activities to generate that gold. I give that gold to a bunch of raiders to carry my deadass and give me the ahead of the curve achievement.

Mind you this simply the hypothetical but the fact you want to split hairs over the matter shows you don't want to accept the current climate we are in this game.

[Stardrift]

You mean gold. You completed the "hardest content" not through skill but with gold. The win was paid for with gold. You bought gold as part of a microtransaction but you did not buy the win with your credit card. If that makes it pay to win the so does a subscription fee right? Because anything you do in the game is made possible by the subscription fee.

So wouldn't the entire game be pay to win?

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The problem with that though is it was against the rules. You can cheat at any game but that doesn't mean every game is pay to win just because it is possible to do. If I pay someone to play Tetris for me that doesn't make Tetris pay to win.

So what you mean is.. the game is pay to win lmao. Buy currency that buys you power. As in.. like.. buying something.. to win..? The stretching and strawmanning in this thread is pretty funny.

[rhorle]

I obtained the gold with a token. I swiped my credit card for $20, and blizzard gave me gold. I did zero in-game activities to generate that gold. I give that gold to a bunch of raiders to carry my deadass and give me the ahead of the curve achievement. Mind you this simply the hypothetical but the fact you want to split hairs over the matter shows you don't want to accept the current climate we are in this game.

It isn't splitting hairs. Stop dismissing an argument just because you disagree with it. You swiped your card for gold not the win. You didn't do any effort in game for that gold but another player did. Because the token doesn't generate gold. You can give gold to raiders to carry you with out every purchasing a token. Gold for Wins is a natural part of the game that Blizzard has never spoken against.

It has existed from the begining but gained popularity with Challenge Mode. WoD saw an increase because people suddenly had piles of gold with nothing to spend it on. The token came later in WoD after gold and boosts were already plentiful.

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So what you mean is.. the game is pay to win lmao. Buy currency that buys you power. As in.. like.. buying something.. to win..? The stretching and strawmanning in this thread is pretty funny.

Gold isn't a currency designed for pay to win though. It isn't pay to win to buy gold. You are not buying a win. Gold is not created for the token. The players have to exist to provide the service and is a normal part of both gold and the game. Not everything is pay to win just because it can be traced back to be enabled by a credit card. If that were the case the game was Pay to Win from the very start as a "credit card" was swiped for the Box and Subscription.

See how silly it is to pay six degrees of kevin bacon with wins?

[Stardrift]

It isn't splitting hairs. Stop dismissing an argument just because you disagree with it. You swiped your card for gold not the win. You didn't do any effort in game for that gold but another player did. Because the token doesn't generate gold. You can give gold to raiders to carry you with out every purchasing a token. Gold for Wins is a natural part of the game that Blizzard has never spoken against.

It has existed from the begining but gained popularity with Challenge Mode. WoD saw an increase because people suddenly had piles of gold with nothing to spend it on. The token came later in WoD after gold and boosts were already plentiful.

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Gold isn't a currency designed for pay to win though. It isn't pay to win to buy gold. You are not buying a win. Gold is not created for the token. The players have to exist to provide the service and is a normal part of both gold and the game. Not everything is pay to win just because it can be traced back to be enabled by a credit card. If that were the case the game was Pay to Win from the very start as a "credit card" was swiped for the Box and Subscription.

See how silly it is to pay six degrees of kevin bacon with wins?

Gold can buy you boosts and mythic raid gear from the AH. You can buy gold with cash. /Thread

[Flaks]

There's always been a pay to win aspect of WoW. It's just never been this readily available before.

You're literally able to pay your way into the hardest most demanding content in the game. If that's not pay to win, I don't know what is.

[rhorle]

Gold can buy you boosts and mythic raid gear from the AH. You can buy gold with cash. /Thread

So again you are only buying gold. Not BoE's from the Auction house. A player still has to put effort into earning the gold and the BoE's in order for you to purchase them. The gold provides the win and not your cash. Again, Do you consider the box price and subscription price as pay to win? Because those enable the same things a token does. What is the difference between two indirect forms of cash?

Tokens are micro transactions. Nothing more. Nothing less. Not every single micro transaction in a game is pay to win.

[Hydro-Djinn]

So again you are only buying gold. Not BoE's from the Auction house.

Manta Ray: This is a WoW token.
Patrick: Yep.
Manta Ray: I can use it to get gold.
Patrick: Yep.
Manta Ray: I can then use this gold to get ahead of the curve by paying for a carry.
Patrick: Makes sense to me.
Manta Ray: Then tokens are pay to win!
Patrick: But you only bought gold.

[kaminaris]

I have absolutely no idea what you are asking here.

Premium currency that can be only bought with real money directly, but also can be exchanged to other players by selling them items that you farmed in game.

[arkanon]

Premium currency that can be only bought with real money directly, but also can be exchanged to other players by selling them items that you farmed in game.

You are asking an impossible question because the scenario you have presented contradicts itself. You say it can ONLY be bought with real money, but then claim it can also be exchanged in game, meaning it is not only purchasable with real money...

[Drusin]

The phrase itself? Lmao the term is self explanatory lmao who tf digs their own grave this far lmao

Seriously though. Buy currency -> buy auctionhouse gear/carries with said currency = The very definition of pay to win.

If we're going to not use a term specificed by any governing body and instead are going to use the words as they are defined then yes wow is p2w, because simply buying the game as stated before = success = winning = all games p2w

[InflaterMouse]

i played on many servers in wow europe, stormscale, bronze dragonflight, ghostlands, bladefist, and finally Twisting Nether from WoD+
I can easily say that up to WoD time, i rarely if ever saw a gold boost sell on trade on any of those other servers, so no while there was of course some gold boost sell (I myself did one gold boost raid in ToC during wrath, since back then i was in 2nd best guild on server and best horde), it is absolutely nothing like token-wow era of sell raid boosts for gold, or a tank selling boost doing m+ as my rl friend did during Legion
So if i wasn't clear: pre-token wow gold didn't have actual money value, i can right now tell u how much a euro can buy u gold in wow using blizz own website, that line didn't exist pre-tokens, that line is why wow became P2W, when wow gold obtained an official euro value from blizzard

Shit dude not sure how. I was on Thrall, Illidan and Stormrage and they were flooded with it. Folks stated developing addons to block them they were so frequent. I made my first million gold hosting GDKP raids weekly on 2 different toons and always had a full raid, like more than a full raid worth of people who wanted to go. At one point we started charging to attend the GDKP lol. SOOOO much of it going on for as long as I can remember.

[kaminaris]

You are asking an impossible question because the scenario you have presented contradicts itself. You say it can ONLY be bought with real money, but then claim it can also be exchanged in game, meaning it is not only purchasable with real money...

It does exist. In fact there is a pretty big game that uses this system.

Can only be bought directly with real money (total pool of that currency will never increase unless someone else makes the purchase).
In other words, if nobody ever purchased it from devs, nobody would be able to use it or trade it.

You can however acquire it by selling stuff (farmed in game) to other players thus making it possible to get everything from the game or shop without paying a single cent.
In other words, someone has to buy your stuff, you cannot make "purchase" yourself. Thus you cannot technically "buy" it from other players.

Technically nothing is ever free because time is super valuable resource that can be translated into money but that is different issue.

So is that pay to win or not?

[arkanon]

It does exist. In fact there is a pretty big game that uses this system.

Can only be bought directly with real money (total pool of that currency will never increase unless someone else makes the purchase).
In other words, if nobody ever purchased it from devs, nobody would be able to use it or trade it.

You can however acquire it by selling stuff (farmed in game) to other players thus making it possible to get everything from the game or shop without paying a single cent.
In other words, someone has to buy your stuff, you cannot make "purchase" yourself. Thus you cannot technically "buy" it from other players.

Technically nothing is ever free because time is super valuable resource that can be translated into money but that is different issue.

So is that pay to win or not?

Look you have acknowledged you are talking about a specific system, from a specific game, so do away with all the cryptic theatrics and just say what system you are talking about, and from what game. For the life of me I cannot understand why you wouldn't just do that in the first place, unless this is some elaborate attempt at a "gotcha!" Moment.

[Stardrift]

So again you are only buying gold. Not BoE's from the Auction house. A player still has to put effort into earning the gold and the BoE's in order for you to purchase them. The gold provides the win and not your cash. Again, Do you consider the box price and subscription price as pay to win? Because those enable the same things a token does. What is the difference between two indirect forms of cash?

Tokens are micro transactions. Nothing more. Nothing less. Not every single micro transaction in a game is pay to win.

I mean.. Purchase currency with real life cash, use currency to purchase carries/mythic gear off AH. By definition, it's P2W. Doesn't matter what's inbetween. At the end of the day, you're still paying cash for power.

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If we're going to not use a term specificed by any governing body and instead are going to use the words as they are defined then yes wow is p2w, because simply buying the game as stated before = success = winning = all games p2w

See above.

Also, completing a raid is also winning. Paying cash, receiving gold, then spending it on someone to carry you to the end of a raid is also winning. Begins with pay, ends with win.

/Thread

[Soon-TM]

I mean.. Purchase currency with real life cash, use currency to purchase carries/mythic gear off AH. By definition, it's P2W. Doesn't matter what's inbetween. At the end of the day, you're still paying cash for power.

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See above.

Also, completing a raid is also winning. Paying cash, receiving gold, then spending it on someone to carry you is also winning. Begins with pay, ends with win.

/Thread

I wouldn't bother too much with that kind of people. They seem to believe that since "you can't win anything in an MMO", the game can't possibly have P2W elements. Ever /facepalm

[munkeyinorbit]

Repeating a question I've already told you an answer to won't magically change anything. You can't keep complaining about dishonesty when you refuse to acknowledge the responses that you get. Saying the average is extremely generous means you were talking about a minimum rather then an average. Because you are of a firm belief that it takes longer then 20 mins when being realistic.

World Quests only change at set times of the day. The only World Quests that would not be available across all characters would be covenant related ones. Which since you think being in 160 after 6 months is realistic they also wouldn't have unlocked. Because it requires ranks to be spent in the Anima conductor. Doing the world content in Shadowlands doesn't change much based on gear. The only things that go faster or the ones that you have to kill rares on. Even then with a little bit of ground work, which I already said is takes work to do, your characters will out gear world content.

You haven't answered the question. You made a claim without any proof and you expect to dazzle us with words that mean nothing. Your argument of "it's easy to get a token every week" has been shot to pieces.

Here is the math. 15 toons a day x average of 1700 gold for each calling (your estimate of up to 2500 is just wrong) x 7 days is 178,500 gold which is short of how much a token is.

The average time for a calling is approx 20 mins. Depending on travel and what you actually have to do. This is assuming that they are not all raiders because no one has 15 raiders. That's just fantasy. So considering that, at best, the would all have the campaign finished your looking at a average ilvl of 190. Still very undergrared and scaling of the world still matters.

15 x 20 is 5 hours.

You are wrong. It's not easy. It's not casual. And it doesn't even hit the mark of buying a token.