Is WoW Pay 2 Win?

[Kithelle]

I paid for a Token with Cash = I got tons of gold = I pay a player to win PvP = Pay to Win.

Correction on that bold:
What i do with gold after that, is using the gold to win in an unfair economical advantage.

And I grind out that gold without spending a dime...so no it isn't pay to win

Pay to win gives you a unnatural advantage over people who don't open their wallets...if I can do the same thing as you without spending a dime it's not pay to win

[rhorle]

You paid Cash for it?. Is P2W

No. That makes it a micro transaction. Micro transactions are not automatically pay to win. Buying a mount is not winning at anything. Again the definition you gave for pay to win does not fit the argument you keep trying to make. Don't you find that weird?

[Drusin]

You guys still going huh? lol

This is never going to stop, everyones opinion on what the term means is different

[Stardrift]

Internet Service Providers - they sell you a service aka internet access which you can use for learning good things or performing criminal activities.

This means your ISP are criminals, right...?!

You've been posting the same crap short sentences over many pages... you should really not be allowed to post online.

You're comparing subscribing to a service to purchasing power in a video game lol

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Buying food and soda at a store gives you energy to play therefor grocery stores are p2w

You're comparing purchasing essentials to purchasing power in a video game lol

[Vampyrr]

And what part of him "choosing to give you" sounds fine, if Blizzard is charging "Real Money" for it?. Do you understand that is PAY to Win?
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You Paid USD to get an advantage is still Pay to Win. Even if the other player got it legally, farming it, using his time for it....But Blizzard put a price ticket on it and sold it. That is I Paid Cash and Won.

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That phrase you drop there sounds like "I said this dude...trust me... I dont have the real numbers or data to actually make my point valid, but "the people with money arent buying tokens to get it lol.""....

You really think people are hitting gold cap from buying tokens? lol? No they are working the AH or selling keys. There are videos and guides all over of people doing that. Those who can make gold dont buy keys. Only those with time issues or are bad with money typically buy them

[arkanon]

I find it mind blowing that people are trying to compare paying the sub or purchasing the game with P2W.

P2W is paying real money to gain an advantage over other players - not over people who are not even playing the game. You cannot have an advantage in world of warcraft over a person who is not playing world of warcraft.

The only REAL discussion going on here is what equates to an advantage in WoW - and thats a perfectly reasonable debate to engage in. Trying to say "yer but people who play the game by paying their sub have an advantage over those who dont play the game!" - this argument just needs to stop - its really not clever or logical at all.

[rhorle]

You're comparing subscribing to a service to purchasing power in a video game lol

How is that any different then you calling using a service the same as winning in a video game? A token is a service to trade gold and a gift card between two players.

[Stardrift]

How is that any different then you calling using a service the same as winning in a video game? A token is a service to trade gold and a gift card between two players.

I mean, I'm purchasing gold with cash, so that I can use that gold to buy power. /Thread

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I find it mind blowing that people are trying to compare paying the sub or purchasing the game with P2W.

P2W is paying real money to gain an advantage over other players - not over people who are not even playing the game. You cannot have an advantage in world of warcraft over a person who is not playing world of warcraft.

The only REAL discussion going on here is what equates to an advantage in WoW - and thats a perfectly reasonable debate to engage in. Trying to say "yer but people who play the game by paying their sub have an advantage over those who dont play the game!" - this argument just needs to stop - its really not clever or logical at all.

It's their last resort to trying to reach around the fact that what I mentioned above is P2W lol

Mods may as well just lock this thread already. Because at this point, there's no discussion going on.

[rhorle]

I mean, I'm purchasing gold with cash, so that I can use that gold to buy power. /Thread

Right. As you just stated the gold buys the power and not the cash. So nice of you to finally agree while ending the thread.

[arkanon]

Right. As you just stated the gold buys the power and not the cash. So nice of you to finally agree while ending the thread.

So you are 100% commited to the idea that by adding an additional step into the process, it stops being P2W? So if you could buy a token directly from Blizzard with real money, that you picked up from the mailbox, and took to a special vendor that exchanged said token for BiS raid / PvP gear, this would not meet your definition of P2W?

[rhorle]

So you are 100% commited to the idea that by adding an additional step into the process, it stops being P2W? So if you could buy a token directly from Blizzard with real money, that you picked up from the mailbox, and took to a special vendor that exchanged said token for BiS raid / PvP gear, this would not meet your definition of P2W?

What you describe is 100% different then the token and gold. Your description has been what I've always stated would be pay to win. I'm not sure why you have to ignore pages and pages of things stated to you, or read by you, just to try for a gotcha moment.

[Ringthane]

Yea, and outdated term, because Blizzard created a new P2W method. So...is endless....

No. It either is or it isn't. You can't change the definition to fit your argument. Either you can pay to beat the game or you can't. Having lots of gold, or mounts, or whatever, doesn't win anything. It just means you have more of something than someone else.

Honestly, you people will whine about anything, won't you?

[arkanon]

What you describe is 100% different then the token and gold. Your description has been what I've always stated would be pay to win. I'm not sure why you have to ignore pages and pages of things stated to you, or read by you, just to try for a gotcha moment.

So buying a token (a currency) you exchange for gear is 100% absolutely P2W, but buying gold (a currency) you exchange for gear is 100% absolutely NOT P2W?

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No. It either is or it isn't. You can't change the definition to fit your argument. Either you can pay to beat the game or you can't. Having lots of gold, or mounts, or whatever, doesn't win anything. It just means you have more of something than someone else.

Honestly, you people will whine about anything, won't you?

I believe what they are saying is that someone playing a game in 1996 would have a very different definition of what P2W means than someone playing in 2021. Why? Because over the years, devs have introduced entirely new ways of monetizing games - some of those new systems, that did not exist when the term P2W was first being coined, are commonly understood and accepted to qualify as P2W.

The most common argument through this thread has been that you cant "win" in wow so the game cannot be P2W - this is a really silly argument to make, as the commonly accepted definition of the term "Pay to Win", is to gain an advantage over other players through real money purchases.

[Stardrift]

Right. As you just stated the gold buys the power and not the cash. So nice of you to finally agree while ending the thread.

You act as if there aren't games out there where you have to buy said currency to buy other things that grant power and boosts lol

Again. Purchase gold with cash, buy boosts and power. P2W /Thread

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No. It either is or it isn't. You can't change the definition to fit your argument. Either you can pay to beat the game or you can't. Having lots of gold, or mounts, or whatever, doesn't win anything. It just means you have more of something than someone else.

Honestly, you people will whine about anything, won't you?

Why are you taking it as if we're whining? We're simply stating the fact that the game is, indeed, P2W.

All these boosts and carries wouldn't exist if it wasn't because Blizzard profited off them. Before the token, you'd have to purchase from a third party website to get these things. The difference being the cash went to somebody else, not Blizzard.

But because Blizzard profits off the tokens, these services from other players are out in the open. Doesn't matter if Blizzard offers these services themselves or not. Players are still giving money to Blizzard so that they may buy these services to grant themselves an advantage/reach a goal. That in itself is the definition of pay to win.

This is all a product of the token. None of us are saying this is Blizzard's fault, or that the token should be discontinued. None of us are complaining here. We're simply stating the facts. A fact that the few of you are taking personally and whipping out your torches and pitchforks over.

[Vampyrr]

By paying "Cash" for it.

Having gold gives you the economy power to buy from the AH or other players "progression".

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Wrong. The soda is "Always" something being sold. There is no way to prepare it at me. Now buying a sandwich is pay to win. Because while everyone is able to do it at home, you "PAID" to be made to you to save "time".

Soda Stream You can make it at home

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You're comparing subscribing to a service to purchasing power in a video game lol

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You're comparing purchasing essentials to purchasing power in a video game lol

Cant play without food! Needed to play. Thats how you all sound

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And what part of him "choosing to give you" sounds fine, if Blizzard is charging "Real Money" for it?. Do you understand that is PAY to Win?
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You Paid USD to get an advantage is still Pay to Win. Even if the other player got it legally, farming it, using his time for it....But Blizzard put a price ticket on it and sold it. That is I Paid Cash and Won.

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That phrase you drop there sounds like "I said this dude...trust me... I dont have the real numbers or data to actually make my point valid, but "the people with money arent buying tokens to get it lol.""....

You really think the people at gold cap on multiple characters are dropping over 1000$ per character to do it? Seriously? Buy low sell high thats how they make the money.

[Kithelle]

You paid Cash for it?. Is P2W

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You pay cash, you get gold, you win = P2W

It's nothing you can't earn in game...you don't "win" anything...you just get a head start

Pay to win gives you a advantage you can't obtain without spending money

[rhorle]

So buying a token (a currency) you exchange for gear is 100% absolutely P2W, but buying gold (a currency) you exchange for gear is 100% absolutely NOT P2W?

Yes. Do I really need to repeat that? One involves players providing both the gold and whatever you buy with gold. The other is direct from Blizzard. There is a big difference between the two things.

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You act as if there aren't games out there where you have to buy said currency to buy other things that grant power and boosts lol

Those games are not this game though. Buying gold as you stated is not pay to win because you are not buying the win. The win is bought with gold.

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You pay Blizzard for the Gold with a credit card info you give to them. You get Gold, the other guy gets Game Time. You use the gold to pay tons of crap = Pay to Win

Then why did you link a definition earlier that didn't include that? Gold is not a win. Shifting the win to just having gold does not make your argument valid. There is no need to shift the goal posts just because your definition doesn't work.

[arkanon]

A pay-to-win model is one where transactions made with real money give you access to gameplay advantages, which cannot be equaled or counteracted with a reasonable but not excessive amount of effort through the gameplay itself.

I use a transaction called "Token" with real money and it gives me access to gameplay advantages (Getting rich in the game, with 190k or more in gold), which cannot be equaled or counteracted with a reasonable but not excessive amount of effort through the gameplay itself.

Just remember, some of the people in this discussion claim it CAN be easily obtained in just one week! And all you have to do is level up 15 max level characters, gear them all up, and do all available callings every day, 15 times, and you will almost make sorta-kinda-almost-close to a tokens worth of gold in 1 week! And it will only take you 25-35 hours / week to do this!

[arkanon]

Yea, no shit....And have more than 10 years playing the game + the last expansion + tons of months work of game time....No shit.

If these guys doesn't like gold, i would love to keep it. Just let me know where and when i can get all your gold, since is so useless....

Just to be clear - this is not some method i just randomly came up with - this was the actual suggestion from a forum user who argued for pages and pages that it was "easy" to get a tokens worth of gold / week using this method.

[rhorle]

A pay-to-win model is one where transactions made with real money give you access to gameplay advantages, which cannot be equaled or counteracted with a reasonable but not excessive amount of effort through the gameplay itself.

Gold can not be equaled? It can not be counteracted with a reasonable but not excessive amount of effort? How did people gain enough gold to supply to those who buy tokens if they can not equal or reasonably get gold? Your own definition doesn't work and you ignore that to shift the goal posts that having gold itself is a win. That also begs the question of what level of gold is considered a win? 1,000? The price of a token? Higher then a token? Because there are a lot of people that win more then a token in the game if gold is the power/advantage.

So with or with out your definition your argument falls flat.

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Just remember, some of the people in this discussion claim it CAN be easily obtained in just one week! And all you have to do is level up 15 max level characters, gear them all up, and do all available callings every day, 15 times, and you will almost make sorta-kinda-almost-close to a tokens worth of gold in 1 week! And it will only take you 25-35 hours / week to do this!

Are you still so salty about being proven wrong you have to exaggerate? After the initial work of setting it up the process is relatively easy to maintain. No where near as passive as garrisons and order halls but it is still there.

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Just to be clear - this is not some method i just randomly came up with - this was the actual suggestion from a forum user who argued for pages and pages that it was "easy" to get a tokens worth of gold / week using this method.

You asked how one could get 150k a week. I answered. Doing callings on multiple characters is easy to do. Time consuming does not change it from being easy. Stop being salty after you argued for pages and pages about the same thing including moving the amounts, having bad math at the start, and all the other ways your tried to argue against it.