Is WoW Pay 2 Win?

[crusadernero]

Nothing else? So the only thing you can use gold on is a raid or dungeon carry? Why did people buy gold before carries became "mainstream"? Boosting has never been a problem so there is nothing to fix. They take action against botting and gold trading. The gold farmers used to advertise with dead bodies in cities spelling out websites. You are re-writing things or selectively remembering.

Yes, I do remember the game being filled in tradechat and LFG channel with boosting sales constantly 24/7. Like it is now, it has always been so rampant with boosts & carries.

Yeah, keep on thinking that.


And yes, what else is there to spend 100k+ gold on in wow? You rake in enough gold for all the stuff you need in the game, but buying boosts & carries? You are better off buying token.

[Daymanmb]

If that is the argument then the game is pay to win because of the subscription. People have to earn the gold through normal in-game methods in order for others to get gold with the token. It is not created just because someone buys a token from Blizzard. Distinctions matter even if you refused to see them.

Riiiight... paying for a subscription in a sub based game, is the same as buying gold, or a lvl boost from Blizzard lmao.

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I simply said it didn't save you time

And thats simply false. Buying carries saves you a ton of time. The fact that you cant see that, says to me, that youre no longer worth my time.

[arkanon]

Riiiight... paying for a subscription in a sub based game, is the same as buying gold from Blizzard lmao.

Sadly, i have seen other people try the same argument. P2W is paying to gain an advantage over other players. You cant gain an advantage over people who are not playing the game. I honestly think thats the sign of a person completely tapping out and giving up on any logical arguments.

[Daymanmb]

Sadly, i have seen other people try the same argument. P2W is paying to gain an advantage over other players. You cant gain an advantage over people who are not playing the game. I honestly think thats the sign of a person completely tapping out and giving up on any logical arguments.

Its utterly flabbergasting...

[rhorle]

Riiiight... paying for a subscription in a sub based game, is the same as buying gold, or a lvl boost from Blizzard lmao.

You are the one that said all gold is created by Blizzard. You have to pay a subscription (and box price) to access that gold. If you don't like the logic of your own argument then don't make it.

Buying carries only saves you time if you are after achievements. If you are after gear it can save you time or it might not. It all depends on the luck of the RNG drops.

[Daymanmb]

You are the one that said all gold is created by Blizzard.

Who do you think creates gold in WoW?

[rhorle]

Who do you think creates gold in WoW?

The game. Which means paying to access the game makes the game pay to win, right? The token is funded 100% by player earned gold. It does not create any gold.

[Daymanmb]

Buying carries only saves you time if you are after achievements. If you are after gear it can save you time or it might not. It all depends on the luck of the RNG drops.

Jesus christ... if a player uses a lvl boost and pays for carries in raids, you dont think thats faster than a lvl boosted player progressing through content? I dont even know what to say lol. Do you play WoW?

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The game. Which means paying to access the game makes the game pay to win, right? The token is funded 100% by player earned gold. It does not create any gold.

And blizzard makes more money selling the token, than the subscription price the token goes towards. Whats your point?

[Dhrizzle]

No it doesnt. Once a raid has been fully released and the boosting guilds/Players have what they need, they start selling boosts to everyone all day everyday. Meaning, you can go in a raid with level gear and go out with almost fully epic geared. If you want, you can pay for that option too.

The more bosses you kill in vault = better gear. So, shorter time.

If it was pay-2-win shouldn't the people paying be fully geared before the boosters?

[Daymanmb]

If it was pay-2-win shouldn't the people paying be fully geared before the boosters?

Its insane that you dont recognize how stupid of a statement that is lol

[Alydael]

It's really a big stretch to call tokens P2W and you can see that in the evolution of this thread as people start calling it indirect p2w or p2w "features" or whatever other term they come up with.
The gold comes from other players. The gear comes from other players.
The carries are performed by other players who can clear content so easily they can drag dead weight through it.
Your cash does not create anything directly, nor does it directly make players stronger. It just lets you trade game time for gold with other players in a safe and non-ToS violation manner.

This whole thread is over 100+ pages of people playing games with semantics (word games) to make it seem as if WoW is P2W or not.

I will make it super simple.

People want a game where they progress in skill and are able to take on progressively tougher challenges.

The idea is that the player uses his/ her skill to progress.

In WoW, you can buy a token, trade the token for gold and then use the gold to boost yourself to the best gear and all the achieve. There is no player skill at all involved in this, just their $$$. Their is no player skill progression in this method. Their skill has not changed at all, they just have shinies bought with $$$$.

For Pay 2 Win, it really doesn't matter if other players had to carry you, etc. All that matters is that you are able to obtain the best gear in game for real life $$$$ and that you did not have to use any skill to do it. For example- if you bought a raid spot with $$$, but still had to come and preform well in the raid to get gear, I wouldn't consider it Pay 2 win, because you still had to use some skill.

The only other part that matters is whether it is legal to do so in the game (If you are doing it via an exploit or bug then the game isn't Pay 2 win). Blizz has said 100x over that boosting with gold is cool. You just can't pay someone real $$$ directly. You have to buy the WoW token (so Blizz is the entity that collects the $$$ not the booster) then use the token to buy gold. So basically, blizz gets the $$$: blizz is fine with that; booster gets $$$: hey not so fast (blizz no likey)

It diminishes the value of the game, the gear and the achieves. When I see someone with all the achieves and mounts I consider it 50/ 50 whether it is a boost or they really earned it. On some realms, the whole trade is just consumed by different guilds boosting. It basically ruins the whole fantasy of the game. There are a couple of realms I just gave up on because the only life on the server was guilds boosting.......

I still can't believe the devs at WoW allowed the game to descend into such a depraved state. Don't they have any pride in their work? If I was a dev, I wouldn't want to be working at a P 2 Win game, those are basically just cash grab games- the lowest form of a game.

[Dhrizzle]

Its insane that you dont recognize how stupid of a statement that is lol

I recognise it's stupid because WoW isn't a p2w game, if it was someone with a credit card would be able to get their character maxed out before people who are playing the game normally. Pay-2-win games suck because they create two tiers of players with the ones using cash being better equipped to meet the challenges of the game in ways non-paying players can't possibly meet. I've played games where you know the dude melting your face has given the developers £20 for the privilege and it is very different to WoW where you think maybe a person in cool armour used in-game currency to hire people to get them that armour, and possibly they got that currency by paying real life cash to another player.

[Daymanmb]

I recognise it's stupid because WoW isn't a p2w game, if it was someone with a credit card would be able to get their character maxed out before people who are playing the game normally.

Its funny you say that, because you can absolutely max out a character, before people who are playing the game normally.

If two players start the game at the same time, one lvl boosts, the other doesnt and the one who boosts, buys raid carries and the other doesnt, who do you think will have their character maxed out first?

Thats why its a silly argument. A child could sort that out. Whats your excuse?

[arkanon]

I recognise it's stupid because WoW isn't a p2w game, if it was someone with a credit card would be able to get their character maxed out before people who are playing the game normally. Pay-2-win games suck because they create two tiers of players with the ones using cash being better equipped to meet the challenges of the game in ways non-paying players can't possibly meet. I've played games where you know the dude melting your face has given the developers £20 for the privilege and it is very different to WoW where you think maybe a person in cool armour used in-game currency to hire people to get them that armour, and possibly they got that currency by paying real life cash to another player.

If two players start Classic wow at the same time - one buys the boost to lvl 58, one doesnt. they then meet in the world and dual - do you think the level 58 would "melt the face" of the level 1, or no?

[Dhrizzle]

Its funny you say that, because you can do that.

If two players start the game at the same time, one lvl boosts, the other doesnt and the one who boosts, buys raid carries and the other doesnt, who do you think will have their character maxed out first?

Thats why its a silly argument. A child could sort that out. Whats your excuse?

So two players start at a new patch. One of them is a bleeding edge raider, the other has a credit card. Who will clear the content and get geared first?

[TheLucky1]

Its funny you say that, because you can do that.

If two players start the game at the same time, one lvl boosts, the other doesnt and the one who boosts, buys raid carries and the other doesnt, who do you think will have their character maxed out first?

Thats why its a silly argument. A child could sort that out. Whats your excuse?

If you nolife to such an extent that you are one of the very first boosters yourself no one else can outcompete you with their credit card.

I'd even go so far and say if you're boosting yourself or play high end your perception will probably differ a lot regarding this topic as it shouldn't influence you really, that's at least why i was pretty blind to it end of legion and during bfa.

But jesus christ has boosting become a plague in this game.

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So two players start at a new patch. One of them is a bleeding edge raider, the other has a credit card. Who will clear the content and get geared first?

You are correct, now what about the 99% of players that are and never will be bleeding edge raiders? Oh right, they don't matter and fill up the gold saucer the longer this goes on.

[Dhrizzle]

If two players start Classic wow at the same time - one buys the boost to lvl 58, one doesnt. they then meet in the world and dual - do you think the level 58 would "melt the face" of the level 1, or no?

If the level 1 defers the duel until they have the same level and gear then it depends on the classes probably. In a pay-2-win game it would be like one person having TBC and the other stuck with Vanilla content. Even with maxed gear from Naxx the Vanilla player is going to struggle against the p2w player 10 levels higher with basic quest greens.

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You are correct, now what about the 99% of players that are and never will be bleeding edge raiders?

They can play at their own pace and good luck to them.

[Daymanmb]

So two players start at a new patch. One of them is a bleeding edge raider, the other has a credit card. Who will clear the content and get geared first?

Who cares? The bleeding edge player isnt buying their gear, the one with the credit card is..

Do you actually think for WoW to be p2w, the person buying with real money, needs to have an advantage over every other player? Bc thats not how it works..

What about comparing the player with the credit card, to another normal player who isnt bleeding edge. Will the credit card buy an advantage over that player?

[arkanon]

If the level 1 defers the duel until they have the same level and gear then it depends on the classes probably. In a pay-2-win game it would be like one person having TBC and the other stuck with Vanilla content. Even with maxed gear from Naxx the Vanilla player is going to struggle against the p2w player 10 levels higher with basic quest greens.

Just answer the question - or are you suggesting that in a pvp game, when two players meet one simply says "hey mate, your gear is better than mine, please delay the arena match until i have the same gear as you". I mean seriously, what the hell kind of logic is that?

[Daymanmb]

They can play at their own pace and good luck to them.

The point is, pouring your cc into tokens, most definitely gives you an advantage over a majority of players who dont spend real money..

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If the level 1 defers the duel until they have the same level and gear then it depends on the classes probably.

wtf lmao.. you cant be serious..