The problem with alliance bias.

[Syegfryed]

And then we cant blame Varian for hating orcs, right? Because he only met ONE good orc who was a slave like him, while other orcs he met were salvers and brutish bloodthirsty monsters. He never met "good" orcs aside from one who was apparently an outcast.

no we can't, Varian had all the "right" to be suspicious and hate the orcs, the point of him starting the war(not by noble or righteous ideals) and poking the wolf with a spear still stands.

Also nah, they just paranoid maniacs. No justification, no excuses, nothing. Alliance races are also constantly hit, ACTUALLY wiped out and battered by all kinds of forces, Horde being main amongst those and yet Alliance dosent suffer from endless paranoia.

that is again, not truth and blatantly victim complex.

there is justifications and excuses, Trolls and orcs suffered in the hands of humans as well, alliance want to wipe then out and almost did with the darkspear, Taurens in the barrens got constantly hit and nuked by dwarves and alliance incursion trough the barrens stealing their land, taurujo was just the tip of the iceberg, blood elves got a heavy sabotage in their mana supplies by the alliance, goblins in cataclysm got their ship nuked because they were bystanders in the thrall kidnaping and so on.

The alliance races were only really hit with Garrosh when the horde decided to strike back, so don't try to paint that the horde were the ones hitting the alliance "all the time"

Hell, only elf who still has a grudge against you (or maybe she already moved on) is Tyrande. Imagine that.

ah yes, of course the problem, the elves, and people wonder i damn hate those races.

Tyrande the one big brain that re-ignate the conflict over ashenvale because she could not stand green people in their territory

[Ardenaso]

If Forsaken allowed Soutshore civilians to escape and then gnolls or murlocks killed them then that would be similar. And i would even argue that it wasnt their fault.

not to mention the Horde PC literally has the quest to slaughter the said fleeing defenseless civilians

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but yes I agree once more, it's time to kill some Alliance: Mathias Shaw, Halford Wyrmbane, Jes-tereth, Rogers, Mekkatorque, and Shandris' human boyfriend; and most of all kill Anduin utterly and completely

[VladlTutushkin]

no we can't, Varian had all the "right" to be suspicious and hate the orcs, the point of him starting the war(not by noble or righteous ideals) and poking the wolf with a spear still stands.



that is again, not truth and blatantly victim complex.

there is justifications and excuses, Trolls and orcs suffered in the hands of humans as well, alliance want to wipe then out and almost did with the darkspear, Taurens in the barrens got constantly hit and nuked by dwarves and alliance incursion trough the barrens stealing their land, taurujo was just the tip of the iceberg, blood elves got a heavy sabotage in their mana supplies by the alliance, goblins in cataclysm got their ship nuked because they were bystanders in the thrall kidnaping and so on.

The alliance races were only really hit with Garrosh when the horde decided to strike back, so don't try to paint that the horde were the ones hitting the alliance "all the time"



ah yes, of course the problem, the elves, and people wonder i damn hate those races.

Tyrande the one big brain that re-ignate the conflict over ashenvale because she could not stand green people in their territory

And why the fuck is she supposed to stand green people in HER territory?

Why any SOVEREIGN NATION supposed to GIVE CHUNKS OF IT LAND to GREEN PEOPLE?

I highlighted the important part.

By what law or right or order she must give orcs anything? Its land of her people. They dont owe you.

[GreenJesus]

lol late reaction to my post.

And yes. Because undercity might be plague bombed. but if you remove the plague from it. its still stone and ground. its still a city. Only with chemical waste in it.
Teldrassil was burning to a cinder. ( hell lordearon status is blight on most wiki's etc, teldrassil is destroyed)

And last time it took malfurion and druids a lot of effort to make it. seeing as many druids where killed in previous expansions. Some of the old nature spirits like ursoc are gone, we do not know what the axe to the back cost malfurion, yesra's death etc etc. I do not think it will be that easy.
But lets say its doable to make a new one. They still need to rebuild everything.

It still leaves them currently without a home. And their other 2 zones have also been worked over by sylvanas horde.

Undercity might be blighted, and it will take time for it to go away. and:


^from the wiki's. So blight might be able to be removed.

Yes argus was a alliance patch. But it was very small lore wise etc in comparison to suramar. And WoD was pretty much a horde show.

Yes to help baine, to help saurfang. to help forsaken with some new members.

The penultimate patch where we defeat Sargeras and banish the legion was a "small lore wise patch". Yeh okay dude.

[VladlTutushkin]

It doesn't matter if he was palanning for it or not he was still responable for there deaths by driving them out of there homes and blocking the only real route to safety which would have been mulgor.

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You can have a perfectly Valid Justification for your racism and still be a racist warmonger.

Garrosh's Reason for being a warmonger Is even more valid then Varian's he wasn't just racist he needed resources or his people would die And the only way to get said Resources was to take them from the people who just Declared war on Him and attacked.

And then he ended up endangering whole Azeroth. Y’know. Nothing much.

[Ardenaso]

but to be fair, yes I agree the Alliance should be accountable for the Thrall kidapping and then the goblins like sure the people responsible are dead but they should also be made to make sure it never happens ever again

[Lorgar Aurelian]

And then he ended up endangering whole Azeroth. Y’know. Nothing much.

That's not relevant to any thing like at all. his position is no less Valid because he went crazy later.

[VladlTutushkin]

That's not relevant to any thing like at all. his position is no less Valid because he went crazy later.

There were other solutions but again, its always “me want, me take, you fight back - you worse then Sargeras” deal with the orcs.

I cant stand that shit. Its a god damn Lebensraum all over again and as a slav i fucken hate when idea of “oh lets just take resources and land from our neighbours who “not using them properly” gets tossed around like that.

Orca dont have any rights to Ashenvale, and they could have solved their resourcing problem by other means, especially with goblins in their disposal.

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but to be fair, yes I agree the Alliance should be accountable for the Thrall kidapping and then the goblins like sure the people responsible are dead but they should also be made to make sure it never happens again

Same way Alliance makes sure that horde’s crimes will not happen again?

(Aka - by doing nothing.)

[geco]

Night elves already have another tree, blizzard gave them in Legion with Shaladrassil, they arleady knew they were destroying Teldrassil from WoD.

This is why they designed Suramar for them, shladrassil too, and restored all their iconic lore locations and citadles from their lore.. except somewhere between 7.0 and 7.1 development, they decided to do allied races for 8.0, and that Nightbonre would not only be an allied race, but will go horde.. this completley negated most of hte broken isles for the alliance night elves, and we are left iwth the position we have today

For the night elves to flourish again they'll need to give them a new home.. with Suramar gone, the broken isles is also gone, they'll have to repeat the effort of redesigning. Potential locations are Hyjal - which means kicking out the Cenarion Circle, or Feralas, which means kicking out the Tauren and ogres there. They'll also need to design them a new home too. Which won't be a problem if they are doing a world revamp, but it won't be as spectacular or detailed as Suramar, unless they just reuse the assets and organise them in a different arrangement to look different.

You always get pretty interesting analysis strips. Although I do not agree with them.
I just wanted to say it.

By this logic, it's totally fine that Sylvanas burned down Teldrassil because the night elves have done A LOT of fucked up shit on Azeroth.

Please make me a list of things the Kaldorei did to Aceroth that he can't fix.
And remember that anything to do with Ashara has to do with Sylvanas as well.

And then explain to me why that would affect Sylvanas more since it now seems that he wants to destroy Azeroth.

[Ardenaso]

Please make me a list of things the Kaldorei did to Aceroth that he can't fix.

to be fair if the Malfurion just executed the Highborne instead of exiling them then Azeroth would have been still peaceful like no demons no orcs no nothing

[geco]

to be fair if the Malfurion just executed the Highborne instead of exiling them then Azeroth would have been still peaceful like no demons no orcs no nothing

Maiev. -That useless cuckold. Then they call me Crazy in Wolfheart-

[Lorgar Aurelian]

There were other solutions but again, its always “me want, me take, you fight back - you worse then Sargeras” deal with the orcs.

I cant stand that shit. Its a god damn Lebensraum all over again and as a slav i fucken hate when idea of “oh lets just take resources and land from our neighbours who “not using them properly” gets tossed around like that.

Orca dont have any rights to Ashenvale, and they could have solved their resourcing problem by other means, especially with goblins in their disposal.

Why in the world would they try and find other solutions when every thing they need is right there and the people who have it are trying to wipe them out? "OH HEY THE ALLIANCE IS TRYING TO KILL ALL OF US BUT WE CAN'T TAKE LUMBER FROM THEM STEALING IS WRONG!" is just silly the night elf's weren't even fighting back they broke there trade deal and then stuck with SW as they started the conflict.

[VladlTutushkin]

Why in the world would they try and find other solutions when every thing they need is right there and the people who have it are trying to wipe them out? "OH HEY THE ALLIANCE IS TRYING TO KILL ALL OF US BUT WE CAN'T TAKE LUMBER FROM THEM STEALING IS WRONG!" is just silly the night elf's weren't even fighting back they broke there trade deal and then stuck with SW as they started the conflict.

And before that? When they HAD trade deal. When they were at tentative peace? Warsong kept attacking them anyway!

And after MoP when Tyrande gave up fighting for Azshara in exchange for the Horde withdrawing from Ashenvale and no longer staking any claim to it…

Ended up in genocide later on. Not just “take the land” but “wipe them all out” now.

And now night elfs apparently “move on and rebuild” AGAIN.

Not trying to attack the horde or somehow harm it, they still returning to status quo, despite genocide.

So horde could attack them again, because sure, why not.

Those “weak and inferior” you can say… “subhuman” elfs DESERVE extermination and dispossession. Right?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

And before that? When they HAD trade deal. When they were at tentative peace? Warsong kept attacking them anyway!

DO you have a source for them attacking for the few months between the trade deal being set up at wrath's launch and it being broken at the wrath gate or are you just making stuff up?

And after MoP when Tyrande gave up fighting for Azshara in exchange for the Horde withdrawing from Ashenvale and no longer staking any claim to it…

Again the future isn't at all relevant to rather position was valid at the time of cata.

[shoc]

Who cares, it's just a cosmetic appearance option.

[VladlTutushkin]

DO you have a source for them attacking for the few months between the trade deal being set up at wrath's launch and it being broken at the wrath gate or are you just making stuff up?

Again the future isn't at all relevant to rather position was valid at the time of cata.

It was in Vanilla when Horde and night elfs also had a deal and when factions were not officially at war.

Warsong Clan was raiding night elfs and attacking them non the less and Thrall wanted to stop it but was too afraid of backlash from orcs who would see that as “weakness”.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

It was in Vanilla when Horde and night elfs also had a deal and when factions were not officially at war.

Warsong Clan was raiding night elfs and attacking them non the less and Thrall wanted to stop it but was too afraid of backlash from orcs who would see that as “weakness”.

The trade deal was set Up at the start of wrath, Hell Garrosh wasn't even part of the horde until Tbc. Nothing from Vanilla is relevant to any thing were talking about.

[VladlTutushkin]

The trade deal was set Up at the start of wrath, Hell Garrosh wasn't even part of the horde until Tbc. Nothing from Vanilla is relevant to any thing were talking about.

They had similar deal in Vanilla , same as with both factions being in peace for the time. And yet it were not “xenophobic elfs” who attacked the orcs but the other way around.

Also by your logic since night elfs were in Alliance and horde attacked a member of Alliance repeatedly that means they broke peace first , Alliance just havent officially responded until Wrath.

[Leodok]

It honestly sounds like you just really want to play Alliance. Go for it, I guess.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

They had similar deal in Vanilla , same as with both factions being in peace for the time. And yet it were not “xenophobic elfs” who attacked the orcs but the other way around.

Also by your logic since night elfs were in Alliance and horde attacked a member of Alliance repeatedly that means they broke peace first , Alliance just havent officially responded until Wrath.

There was no trade deal Prior to wrath why are you making stuff up?