Yrel & theLightbound = 10.0 is Dragon Isles.

[Varx]

My knowledge is super limited, but your theories on things are pretty close to what mine are. Again, I could be entirely wrong, but a lot of what we are theorizing makes a lot of sense.

I merely know the name of something.

So based on that name, am I full of shit? Nothing is too small, friend.

[Dundebuns]

Just a quick question, but in using the dragon soul (and hence depowering every dragon flight) didn't Nozdormu bind every single thread of time and fate, meaning that he would never become Murozond and hence the Infinite flight are no longer a threat?

[Triceron]

Just a quick question, but in using the dragon soul (and hence depowering every dragon flight) didn't Nozdormu bind every single thread of time and fate, meaning that he would never become Murozond and hence the Infinite flight are no longer a threat?

Doesn't matter when WoD literally opened the floodgates on timeline shenanigans and the Bronze have done jack shit about it.

We literally have Mag'har from another timeline as a playable allied race. If that's possible, anything is.

[Varx]

Just a quick question, but in using the dragon soul (and hence depowering every dragon flight) didn't Nozdormu bind every single thread of time and fate, meaning that he would never become Murozond and hence the Infinite flight are no longer a threat?

That was just regarding the moment of deathwing's defeat. Also the infinite is still active as the new mega dungeon in 9.1 has an infinite dragon boss.

[Stardrift]

So based on that name, am I full of shit? Nothing is too small, friend.

Not at all man. You're quite onto something

[Varx]

Not at all man. You're quite onto something

Well on the chance you're not full of it and actually have some insider info, cheers! Haha.

[Syegfryed]

Hmmm... think of that like Fel Orc's tusks and spikes. It would kind of protrude from the armor.

you know there is a lot of fel orcs using armor too right? the thing is: adapt

*Looking at Orcs, Trolls, Undead, Goblins, Dark Iron Dwarves and Worgen.

*looking how they are not "nowadays" but old races*

Thing is:
1. You can, already, play as a Dragonmaw Orc.

you can't.

2. I don't think Worgen transformation is rather fitting. Maybe for a vampiric race. But, Humanoids turning into full-on dragons is not like turning into a humanoid-dragon hybrid. There's no awe in it.

Like i said, we have examples ingame of the transformation, if its ae or not is based around subjective option. turning into full-on dragon ins just impratical

3. What's wrong with the Dragonmen we have in game? which are experiments if i'm not mistaken:

They are ugly as fuck and i don't think they would fit as their own race because numbers and how theya re created..

Very noble and peaceful, indeed. -_-

You are just red hearing/changing goalposts, the point bought was never "noble or peaceful", this an fallacy since for their lifetime since they evolved from Ogres orcs were fine, living in epace with draeneis and others who let then alone.

Brutal is one aspect of evil.

It is not, its is a non-alignment thing, just because its often seeing in the bad side does not mean good people can't be brutal in determinate circuntances

So is introducing Dark Rangers this expansion. Not that i don't support it. But, it seems that it's not the direction they are going.

you mean necromancers

[Yriel]

Listen, the Light is gonna feature in the future alongside the Void. Who do you think gonna be its face?

I would have said Anduin. He's always been the lights poster boy, was priest and paladin and leads a faction. And Blizz loves "Leaders get corruped" storylines, at least on Horde side so it wouldn't surprise me to have him become the morally questionable fanatic at some point.

[username993720]

Well yes...

Look what happened to the runecarver after he recovered his sigil. It's a significant transformation. I mean look at current Zovaal, you can tell that's not how he looks at 100%.

He lost that orb and who knows what else and was imprisoned. He'll get it back in 9.1 after sylvanas encounter. Why else would he have an encrypted model?

It's educated speculation, not just shooting in the dark.

The Runecarver's face was hidden behind a mask. You know, like Leonardo Decaprio in The Man in the Iron Mask. His body remained the same, he just magically gained his clothes again. The feet and hands remained the same and were kinda indicative of his identity.

The Jailer's orb in his chest doesn't, necessarily, mean he'll transform to something else. Taking it from the Abriter would mean she'll devolve to something else. Do you agree with that? I'd guess it's kinda like an Infinity Stone. Makes you stronger, but doesn't change your appearance.

Encrypted Model could, literally, mean new animations or some brand new clothes. I'd wager he'll look badass in some Lich King style armor.

You're not the first one to speculate it, and i'm not saying it has no basis. But, what's the point of having 2, almost identical, characters look-wise (Primus and Jailer)? It kinda defeats the purpose of distinguishing between the two...

Um, because the light mother has no way to manipulate time magic in the same manner as a fully empowered dragon aspect with dominion over time...

Aman'thul has dominion over time magic. He's not out of the picture yet (red star in the sky).
The Nightborne are proficient in time magic due to the Nightwell and Eye of Aman'thul.

you know there is a lot of fel orcs using armor too right? the thing is: adapt

Yes, but they weren't updated like the rest of the Orcs (TBC ones).

I'd say we should look to other bark-skinned races for analogy. Treants and Ancients do not wear armor. Drust constructs do not wear armor. Others from the primal faction do not wear armor. Druids in tree form from Incarnation do not get armor. Cat/Bear forms with bark skin Legion appearance and Incarnation do not get armor.

I don't say it's impossible. I'm just skeptic at this moment.

*looking how they are not "nowadays" but old races*

So?
Orcs were villainous throughout Warcraft 1 & 2. So were Trolls (Forest ones). Forsaken were part of the Scourge. Goblins were neutral, but contributed to the war effort. Worgen were savage, hostile mobs during most of WoW's lifespan. Dark Iron Dwarves have been antagonistic since the game's inception. I'd write Void elves too, but they don't seem to be that evil, unfortunately.

you can't.

Grey skin? Yellow eyes?
I guess they're only missing their unique tattoos.

Like i said, we have examples ingame of the transformation, if its ae or not is based around subjective option. turning into full-on dragon ins just impratical

I didn't mean full-dragons. I meant i don't see a point in half-orc half-dragon hybrids. I'd take the Dragonman we have in game (which, are experiments). Turning into one would, either, mean a Dragonmaw race, like you suggested, or that any race can transform into it, willingly. Which, is just adding more races we have for the sake of transforming into a Dragon. Now, as for Worgen, it's part of the core fantasy of werewolves. Is it the same for Dragons?

They are ugly as fuck and i don't think they would fit as their own race because numbers and how theya re created..

That's subjective, but ok.
What's wrong with experimented races? by the way, they can change it like they did with Gilgoblins (being experiments in the past, but were changed into a natural race in 8.2).
The Dragonmen we have in-game use the Worgen skeleton, so that gives them a head start.

You are just red hearing/changing goalposts, the point bought was never "noble or peaceful", this an fallacy since for their lifetime since they evolved from Ogres orcs were fine, living in epace with draeneis and others who let then alone.

True. But, they massacred them the moment they were manipulated. And, they sure did were not peaceful with the Ogres.

It is not, its is a non-alignment thing, just because its often seeing in the bad side does not mean good people can't be brutal in determinate circuntances

Everyone can be. The true issue arises when it becomes part of your culture.

you mean necromancers

Huh? Necromancers? why would they do that?

I would have said Anduin. He's always been the lights poster boy, was priest and paladin and leads a faction. And Blizz loves "Leaders get corruped" storylines, at least on Horde side so it wouldn't surprise me to have him become the morally questionable fanatic at some point.

He's, currently, a Death Knight so i don't know...

[Delever]

I have a deep deep fear that if we get dragon isles expansion it ll be covenant bullshit all over again but with aspects this time

[Revamp Man]

I have a deep deep fear that if we get dragon isles expansion it ll be covenant bullshit all over again but with aspects this time

More than likely but I’m guessing they will either make it more cosmetic or they won’t have the big restrictions

It’s the pattern for them to say they agree a system that they defend for the length of an expansion is garbage when they push the next one

[username993720]

I have a deep deep fear that if we get dragon isles expansion it ll be covenant bullshit all over again but with aspects this time

You got that right, buddy.
5 aspects, 5 covenants.
It's pretty obvious by now.

[Grand Warlock Phyrus]

You got that right, buddy.
5 aspects, 5 covenants.
It's pretty obvious by now.

oh come on, enough with this borrowed power sht already, all i want is raw, straight foward class/spec raw power!

[username993720]

oh come on, enough with this borrowed power sht already, all i want is raw, straight foward class/spec raw power!

Don't look at me. I didn't come up with this. Blizzard does.

Or, they could use the Shadowlands' covenants to expand the factions to 4. Kyrian and Necrolords are, already, somewhat like the Alliance and Horde. Night Fae and Venthyr could be the Warcraft 3's Sentinels and Scourge equivalents. I can totally see Tyrande and the Night elves branching off from the Alliance, like i can see the Forsaken doing the same with the Horde.

[Syegfryed]

Yes, but they weren't updated like the rest of the Orcs (TBC ones).

because they were not made playable.

I'd say we should look to other bark-skinned races for analogy. Treants and Ancients do not wear armor. Drust constructs do not wear armor. Others from the primal faction do not wear armor. Druids in tree form from Incarnation do not get armor. Cat/Bear forms with bark skin Legion appearance and Incarnation do not get armor.

that is literally a non-issue, just because they didn't wear armor don't mean they can't, this is, funny enough, nature's fallacy.

bark-skin is just another skin like scales or normal skin, you just put armor on it, im pretty sure there was even some botani who had some clotch on then, like i said, non-issue. is like saying scale races would not use armorb ecause dragons don't.

So?

So what? do you realize im talking about how blizzard today can't do what they did in the past?

Grey skin? Yellow eyes?
I guess they're only missing their unique tattoos.

you can play those options

I didn't mean full-dragons. I meant i don't see a point in half-orc half-dragon hybrids. I'd take the Dragonman we have in game (which, are experiments). Turning into one would, either, mean a Dragonmaw race, like you suggested, or that any race can transform into it, willingly. Which, is just adding more races we have for the sake of transforming into a Dragon. Now, as for Worgen, it's part of the core fantasy of werewolves. Is it the same for Dragons?

any race could tun into worgen too, yet, only humans can be worgen, would be the same since the dragonmaw orcs are the only ones with so much connection with dragons today

True. But, they massacred them the moment they were manipulated.

Which, can happens with literally, any race. Other races are even worse falling to corruption without being manpulated and tricked, orcs back there were just naive and innocent to the high minds who use deception and other ways of manipulation.

And, they sure did were not peaceful with the Ogres.

i said they were at peace with anyone who didn't bother then, OGres did bother then a lot, you know, by making orcs slaves

Everyone can be. The true issue arises when it becomes part of your culture.

Not rly, because different worlds and cultures means different things

Huh? Necromancers? why would they do that?

Because it is a better class, more identity and make more sense in the land of the death than rangers who sue dark magic.

He's, currently, a Death Knight so i don't know...[/QUOTE]

[loras]

Why? I'll tell you why.

Yrel is being groomed to be a light affiliated antagonist after the Mag'har recruitment scenario so it's wise to assume that she'll be a big player in the inevitable light / void expansion. There's just one wittle problemo, she and the lightbound are stuck back in AU Draenor. We weren't even able to recruit the Mag'har without bronze dragon assistance. Now unless Blizz gives new lore that major light entities like the Light Mother are able to somehow time travel to different time lines, the LB are shit out of luck.

So how do we fix this? Well, once again with bronze dragon shenanigans. But why would the bronze dragonflight summon crazy light zealots to azeroth? Answer is they wouldn't, but the Infinite dragonflight would.

So how and why would the infinite dragonflight summon Yrel to Azeroth if we killed Murozond in End Time? Well, that is true. However, Our MU Nozdormu is alive and well. So here's where it gets into educated speculation.

What if some dragon shenanigans happen in 9.2, as Bolvar is covered in red dragon fire, Ysera has returned, and many have speculated that Zovaal might raise Galakrond to undeath. The dragonflights then declare that Azeroth needs their protection once more as Cosmic threats seem to continuously endanger Azeroth. So the dragonflights will search for the Dragon Isles as they could have Titan tech that might be able to empower the aspects once again. We know that there are draconic essences out there with power as we saw in BFA when empowering our HoA.

Okay so we find the isles along with the twilight's hammer who is now being led by a void empowered Sinestra (who is teased to being alive in the great dark beyond) as the herald of the void lords. She and the Aspects succeed in getting empowered. Sinestra displays the horrible power of the void, petrifying Nozzy and sending him into a mad depression. He then shatters the timeways and creates the MU infinite dragonflight and is the final boss of 10.0.

No time travel though! All Muro does is summon AU versions of great azerothian heros to build an infinite army to combat the void. We defeat him of course but he manages one last ditch effort, summoning Yrel and her light bound.

After that would most likely be 11.0 and the light/void war most likely taking place in Ka'resh as it is the only known location where a void lord was able to manifest in the physical universe.

The cosmic forces, apart from order, exist outside of time. This gives them default time travelling capacities.
We've seen this in practice with the old gods fucking about with the time stream by knowing in the past what the future holds, as just one example, death too explicitly exists outside of time. Only chaos is uncertain, as it, conceptually, requires time, whereas life & light and void & death are conceptually just existence and nonexistence respectively and do not require time to exist.

Also such shenanigans should make it abundantly clear by now that "killing" != "ending their existence" in warcraft or in general under such rules.
I mean time travel effectively means immortality, no buts.
Murozond's death can be undone or even ignored as a dead timeline, akin to WoD.

[username993720]

because they were not made playable.

So did Chaos Orcs and they did receive an update.

that is literally a non-issue, just because they didn't wear armor don't mean they can't, this is, funny enough, nature's fallacy.

bark-skin is just another skin like scales or normal skin, you just put armor on it, im pretty sure there was even some botani who had some clotch on then, like i said, non-issue. is like saying scale races would not use armorb ecause dragons don't.

Probably.
But, can you at least link that Botani here?

So what? do you realize im talking about how blizzard today can't do what they did in the past?

For what reason?
Mag'har Orcs? were our enemies and are now playable.
Zandalari Trolls? were our enemies and are now playable.
Dark Iron Dwarves? were our enemies and are now playable.
All of these happened recently.
You need to provide a reason as to why not.

you can play those options

Are these not Dragonmaw Orcs?
We can't really play a pale Shattered hand Orc either. Do you suppose they should introduce one of them too?

any race could tun into worgen too, yet, only humans can be worgen, would be the same since the dragonmaw orcs are the only ones with so much connection with dragons today

How about the Dragon humanoids themselves? why is there a need for a transformation?
And, i'd say Night elves have a pretty good connection to dragons, as well (which is not forced and based on enslavement).

Which, can happens with literally, any race. Other races are even worse falling to corruption without being manpulated and tricked, orcs back there were just naive and innocent to the high minds who use deception and other ways of manipulation.

Maybe individuals. Not a whole race.

i said they were at peace with anyone who didn't bother then, OGres did bother then a lot, you know, by making orcs slaves

And you think they wouldn't have grievances with them otherwise? hell, i bet they didn't get along among themselves.

Not rly, because different worlds and cultures means different things

If your standard is conquering and massacring, then i'd say it is a pretty low standard.

Because it is a better class, more identity and make more sense in the land of the death than rangers who sue dark magic.

You're aware it has been integrated into the Death Knight, right?

[draugril]

you can play those options

No, you can't. Dragonmaw Orcs aren't playable in the slightest.

[Syegfryed]

No, you can't. Dragonmaw Orcs aren't playable in the slightest.

i obvious meant it can't, it was a typo

- - - Updated - - -

So did Chaos Orcs and they did receive an update.

we are talking about the fel orcs, with tusks and spikes, they did not receive update

Probably.
But, can you at least link that Botani here?

i ahve to enter the game and find it, no time for it, the point still the same, they can use armor.

For what reason?

You clearly are not understanding what we are talking about, so it is better to drop this subject.

Are these not Dragonmaw Orcs?
We can't really play a pale Shattered hand Orc either. Do you suppose they should introduce one of them too?

of course they should, the point is, take those dragonmaw and make drakonid race out of it.

How about the Dragon humanoids themselves? why is there a need for a transformation?

Where are the dragon humanoid themselves? thats it, they have to create a whole bunch of new lore to cover that, as well to cover the part of failed experiments

it is way easier to make the dragonmaw drakonid, since they essentially already do, and imo, fit more, since it is literally the name of the clan

And, i'd say Night elves have a pretty good connection to dragons, as well (which is not forced and based on enslavement).

almost nonexistent, see their theme its nothing dragon related, they have a connection by the war of shifting sands and ysera, but thats it, event he green dragonflight appear little on it.

The orcs do not slaves then anymore and again, already have a technique to turn themselves into half-dragons, is half-way done.

Maybe individuals. Not a whole race.

??

And you think they wouldn't have grievances with them otherwise? hell, i bet they didn't get along among themselves.

Orcs get along with any race who leave then alone and do get along with themselves, very rare cases of infighting and other clans fighting others, unlike humans who story is basically conquering and taking other races land and fighting themselves.

You're aware it has been integrated into the Death Knight, right?

not enough, not fully and they can still do it anyway like DH

[username993720]

we are talking about the fel orcs, with tusks and spikes, they did not receive update

I know. I said it.
That's why they're probably not going to end up playable.

i ahve to enter the game and find it, no time for it, the point still the same, they can use armor.

Just google-search the thing.
I can't take you at your word.

You clearly are not understanding what we are talking about, so it is better to drop this subject.

I do. You believe Blizzard can't set villainous races to be playable this day and age, for some reason. I say they can. You just introduce a faction of a friendly bunch of them. Just like the Rajani Mogu, for example.

of course they should, the point is, take those dragonmaw and make drakonid race out of it.

I don't know about that...
But, i guess if Alliance gets Black Dragonflight, then the Horde would be getting Red.

Where are the dragon humanoid themselves? thats it, they have to create a whole bunch of new lore to cover that, as well to cover the part of failed experiments

it is way easier to make the dragonmaw drakonid, since they essentially already do, and imo, fit more, since it is literally the name of the clan

First of all, only those in Outland do and they become Netherwind drakonids (which are not relevant and do not have a model close to being playable).
Secondly, the clan's got its name for its ability to ride dragons, not transform into one.
Thirdly, Blizzard had a playable concept art for these playable dragonmen. I don't see how it would be more difficult to adjust a Worgen skeleton than to make a transformative Orc-drakonid race with an outdated model.

almost nonexistent, see their theme its nothing dragon related, they have a connection by the war of shifting sands and ysera, but thats it, event he green dragonflight appear little on it.

The orcs do not slaves then anymore and again, already have a technique to turn themselves into half-dragons, is half-way done.

They have a strong connection to Ysera and the Green Dragonflight due to Druidism, the Emerald Dream and Malfurion. Even the RPG class 'Dragonsworn' suggests them as being favoured race.

Unlike the Dragonmaw Orcs who enslaved the red dragonflight and made their leader mate forcefully. Where does it say that they no longer do it? They lost control of the black dragonflight in MoP and the red dragonflight still hasn't forgiven them for their actions during the second war.

??

What's the confusion? if an entire race has almost the same mentality and not some wayward outcasts, then it is pretty obvious that it's part of who they are and not an exception.

Orcs get along with any race who leave then alone and do get along with themselves, very rare cases of infighting and other clans fighting others, unlike humans who story is basically conquering and taking other races land and fighting themselves.

Funny how you mention Humans while they have a diplomacy racial trait:
"One of the greatest advantages that humanity possesses is their aptitude for team work and leadership, therefore they are also well known for their skills in [Diplomacy]. Their leaders proposed forming the Alliance, and even ordinary citizens know that the right choice of words means the difference between leaving a good impression and leaving a great one."

"Even more than sheer tenacity, the human race's true strength lies in its willingness and ability to look past its own interests, see others' point of view, and seek diplomatic solutions. This has enabled the humans to form lasting alliances with other races."

What you are talking about are ancient times, when they were still savage barbarians.

Orcs, on the other hand, always end up as conquerors. Whether it is under demonic influence or without. Gul'dan, Blackhand, Grommash and Garrosh all had conquest ambitions under different circumstances. War is in their blood and part of their race's defining characteristic. The only difference, of course, are Frostwolves like Thrall or Durotan.

not enough, not fully and they can still do it anyway like DH

Based on what? wearing cloth and wielding staves?

DH were integrated into the Warlock ability-wise. Necromancer were stated by Blizzard themselves to have been integrated into the Death Knight. No speculation, no nothing. Taking it out of the Death Knight would not be the same as with the DH, as it was a sole developer's whim to do so.