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  1. #241
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Sylvanas is the only banshee. So she doesn't count. Try again.
    You do know that no death knight in WoW had blood or frost powers before they were made playable, you know?

    No. It's not an opinion. It's literally stated in the lore.
    It is your opinion that dark rangers are "just undead hunters". Even if you were right, it's not set in stone and can be changed in the future. In Warcraft 3, all death knights used to be paladins. And yet that is no longer true for the playable death knight class.

    Dark rangers are hunters in the same way vindicators are paladins.
    No, not the same thing. Hunters don't have necromantic powers, cannot raise skeletons, and, if the Warcraft 3 unit is to be believed, don't have spells that charm humanoids.

    Anyone who disagrees blatantly disregards lore.
    Anyone who disagrees is simply disagreeing with your opinion.
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  2. #242
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    No, not the same thing. Hunters don't have necromantic powers, cannot raise skeletons,
    To quote the wowpedia hunter race page.

    As the forsaken were once humans, their traits followed in undeath. The Forsaken's Banshee Queen, Sylvanas Windrunner, was a hunter/ranger during her lifetime and after being raised into undeath by Arthas Menethil found herself out of touch with the wilds, which was replaced by necromancy, making her a dark ranger which would later be taken up by others in the Forsaken. Dark Rangers grew in numbers during the War against the Lich King and likely have instructed new forsaken trainees to expand their ranks after the Cataclysm.
    And for rising skeletons.

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantazma View Post
    No. I think Dark Rangers (compared to all possible new classes that could be added in the future) is the most obvious and necessary class. imo.
    And I believe that if happens I don't see a problem (and it would be very likely) that we would have a quest or any kind of very short story where Sylvanas (the only Dark Ranger with Banshee powers) would find a way to share her powers with all Dark Rangers and Blizzard would do this just to explain to us why DR playables have talents like Sylvanas have (like "Mind Control" and "Haunting Wave").
    Necessary class? That's hilarious....oh wait you're serious?

    This "class" can literally be covered in a 4th spec...there is no necessity for this class.
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  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    You do know that no death knight in WoW had blood or frost powers before they were made playable, you know?


    It is your opinion that dark rangers are "just undead hunters". Even if you were right, it's not set in stone and can be changed in the future. In Warcraft 3, all death knights used to be paladins. And yet that is no longer true for the playable death knight class.


    No, not the same thing. Hunters don't have necromantic powers, cannot raise skeletons, and, if the Warcraft 3 unit is to be believed, don't have spells that charm humanoids.


    Anyone who disagrees is simply disagreeing with your opinion.
    No. It's the lore behind it. They are resurrected quel'dorei Farstrider rangers. And guess what? The Farstriders were all hunters. As for death knights, they weren't shown to just be basically another class with an edgy spin like dark rangers.

    And it is ABSOLUTELY the same thing. Hunters are capable of taming undead beasts. Dark rangers can't summon skeletons in WoW either. And hunters are getting Wailing Arrow so they will soon be able to use necromancy.

    And I'm not stating an opinion. I'm stating facts. The lore clearly shows that outside of Nathanos and Delaryn, they are ALL former Farstrider rangers who were killed by Arthas. Just because you are refusing to accept the facts doesn't make my comments opinions. So I repeat, anyone who tries to say that dark rangers are anything but undead hunters is 100% disregarding lore.

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Well that is a fair argument, but again I have to ask; When we break it down what would a Dark Ranger do that is significantly different than the Hunter class?

    Demon Hunters could turn into Demons. That's something Rogues couldn't do. Monks took a lot of concepts from the Brewmaster concept, and included interesting mechanics like melee healing, Brews and Kegs to make them stand out.

    What's a Dark Ranger going to do? People bring up "Banshee stuff", but wouldn't 90% of Dark Ranger concept consists of shooting shadow arrows (which Hunters have already been capable of doing)?
    I have seen multiple fan concepts of the dark ranger and some were very detailed. The banshee idea imo is cool and could be their thing. The dark rangers in wow all have a bow and a sword or dagger. A combined playstyle of ranged and couple of melee stuff with their big thing being banshee things( mind control, but instead of controlling from afar like the priest, you actually go in the target) this is just one example. It already sets the stage for something unique on my eyes.

    I mean we could give this so many spins and allowing other dark ranger to be trained which is happening all the time could increase their skills. So its not farfetched to say other dr have have those skills as well.

    Its not hard to explain or add. Not lore breaking etc, its more that people have a hard time imagine it. Also Sylvanas has been in the spotlight for some time now, so some like it, other are just fed up. Making it even harder for some to like or see it. Which I understand.

    Shadow hunter for example are in the same place and are kinda the dark rangers of trolls. But people like them altho they lack skills etc as well. Opinions is the right word, but saying dark ranger lack stuff because they are just hunters is just wrong. They dont even use or have to use hunter abillities. Its a matter of expanding if they ever go for something like this just like everything else that did not have much to it such as Demon hunters that only realy had Illidan, like dark ranger only had sylvanas in warcraft 3.
    Last edited by Alanar; 2021-06-10 at 12:01 PM.

  6. #246
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    No. It's the lore behind it. They are resurrected quel'dorei Farstrider rangers.
    What was the lore of the death knights before they were made playable?

    As for death knights, they weren't shown to just be basically another class with an edgy spin like dark rangers.
    "Death Knights were once virtuous defenders of Humanity. However, once the Paladin ranks were disbanded by the failing Alliance, many of these holy warriors traveled to the quarantined lands to ease the suffering of those left within the plague-ridden colonies. Though the Paladins were immune to disease of any kind, they were persecuted by the general populace who believed that they had been infected by the foul plague. A small band of Paladins, embittered by society's cruelty, traveled north to find the plague's source. These renegade Paladins succumbed to bitter hatred over the course of their grueling quest. When they finally reached Ner'zhul's icy fortress in Northrend they had become dark and brooding. The Lich King offered them untold power in exchange for their services and loyalty. The weary, vengeful warriors accepted his dark pact, and although they retained their humanity, their twisted souls were bound to his evil will for all time. Bestowed with black, vampiric Runeblades and shadowy steeds, Death Knights serve as the Scourge's mightiest generals."

    And it is ABSOLUTELY the same thing. Hunters are capable of taming undead beasts.
    That does not even come anywhere close to being the same thing. Taming and undead beast is not the same thing as raising an undead skeleton. That's like saying demon hunters and warlocks are the "absolutely same thing" because one traps demons inside themselves, the other makes pacts with the demons.

    And I'm not stating an opinion.
    No, you're stating your opinion.

    The lore clearly shows that outside of Nathanos and Delaryn, they are ALL former Farstrider rangers who were killed by Arthas.
    And that is just a demonstrable lie.

    So I repeat, anyone who tries to say that dark rangers are anything but undead hunters is 100% disregarding lore.
    No, they're just disagreeing with your opinions. And lies, as shown above.
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  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    To quote the wowpedia hunter race page.



    And for rising skeletons.

    Dark Rangerbros.. it's over...

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Except no you didn't. The fact that hunters are getting what so many people declare is something only dark rangers have just proves dark rangers aren't unique. They're literally just undead hunters with a different name.
    You got proven wrong in the other thread by a moderator even before you got banned lol.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    What was the lore of the death knights before they were made playable?


    "Death Knights were once virtuous defenders of Humanity. However, once the Paladin ranks were disbanded by the failing Alliance, many of these holy warriors traveled to the quarantined lands to ease the suffering of those left within the plague-ridden colonies. Though the Paladins were immune to disease of any kind, they were persecuted by the general populace who believed that they had been infected by the foul plague. A small band of Paladins, embittered by society's cruelty, traveled north to find the plague's source. These renegade Paladins succumbed to bitter hatred over the course of their grueling quest. When they finally reached Ner'zhul's icy fortress in Northrend they had become dark and brooding. The Lich King offered them untold power in exchange for their services and loyalty. The weary, vengeful warriors accepted his dark pact, and although they retained their humanity, their twisted souls were bound to his evil will for all time. Bestowed with black, vampiric Runeblades and shadowy steeds, Death Knights serve as the Scourge's mightiest generals."


    That does not even come anywhere close to being the same thing. Taming and undead beast is not the same thing as raising an undead skeleton. That's like saying demon hunters and warlocks are the "absolutely same thing" because one traps demons inside themselves, the other makes pacts with the demons.


    No, you're stating your opinion.


    And that is just a demonstrable lie.


    No, they're just disagreeing with your opinions. And lies, as shown above.
    It literally describes how death knights are different in what you posted. Do you even READ what you use for your evidence? lmao. Meanwhile, there is nothing in the lore anywhere that marks dark rangers as anything more than undead hunters. Being conniving and sowing dissent isn't a power. So stop using it in your arguments.

    And no. I've been stating facts. Just because you're incapable of admitting when you're wrong doesn't turn those facts into opinions.

    Nothing about what I said is a lie. If you go to WoWpedia right fucking now, EVERY SINGLE DARK RANGER NPC IS AN UNDEAD FARSTRIDER RANGER. The only two who aren't are Nathanos and Delaryn. So calling it a lie is utterly asinine and further proves you pick and choose what facts you use. I will say it for the third time, if you say dark rangers are anything more than undead hunters then you are disregarding lore.

  10. #250
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    It literally describes how death knights are different in what you posted. Do you even READ what you use for your evidence? lmao.
    I did. Did you?

    Meanwhile, there is nothing in the lore anywhere that marks dark rangers as anything more than undead hunters.
    Other than the "prime dark ranger" being able to turn into an ethereal banshee form, and dark rangers having access to abilities the hunters do not?

    Being conniving and sowing dissent isn't a power. So stop using it in your arguments.
    One: warriors have no "power" either, and yet they're a playable class. They're literally a "powerless version of the paladin class". And two: this isn't about "power", it's about characteristics.

    And no. I've been stating facts.
    "All dark rangers are former farstriders" is not a fact, but a lie. "Taming undead beasts" being the same as "raising undead skeletons" is also not a fact.

    Just because you're incapable of admitting when you're wrong doesn't turn those facts into opinions.
    By that same token, you constantly insisting that your opinions are facts doesn't turn those opinions into facts.

    Nothing about what I said is a lie. If you go to WoWpedia right fucking now, EVERY SINGLE DARK RANGER NPC IS AN UNDEAD FARSTRIDER RANGER.
    "These cunning individuals, adept at manipulating opponents, are mainly composed of forcibly raised Farstrider rangers of Quel'Thalas." and the lie has been demosntrated.

    The only two who aren't are Nathanos and Delaryn.
    Another lie.

    I will say it for the third time, if you say dark rangers are anything more than undead hunters then you are disregarding lore.
    Just like saying death knights are "anything more than evil paladins" is disregarding lore?
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  11. #251
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    I have seen multiple fan concepts of the dark ranger and some were very detailed. The banshee idea imo is cool and could be their thing. The dark rangers in wow all have a bow and a sword or dagger. A combined playstyle of ranged and couple of melee stuff with their big thing being banshee things( mind control, but instead of controlling from afar like the priest, you actually go in the target) this is just one example. It already sets the stage for something unique on my eyes.
    Those are buzzwords. What exactly is a "Banshee" ability, what how would that work as a specialization? Beyond this "Banshee spec" how would the other specializations be any different than what could be placed in the existing Hunter class?


    Shadow hunter for example are in the same place and are kinda the dark rangers of trolls. But people like them altho they lack skills etc as well. Opinions is the right word, but saying dark ranger lack stuff because they are just hunters is just wrong. They dont even use or have to use hunter abillities. Its a matter of expanding if they ever go for something like this just like everything else that did not have much to it such as Demon hunters that only realy had Illidan, like dark ranger only had sylvanas in warcraft 3.

    Yeah, but Demon Hunters' selling point is the ability to transform into a demon. That gave Demon Hunters a hook that allowed it to stand apart from other concepts. What's Dark Ranger's hook? Hunters can already shoot magical arrows.

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I did. Did you?


    Other than the "prime dark ranger" being able to turn into an ethereal banshee form, and dark rangers having access to abilities the hunters do not?


    One: warriors have no "power" either, and yet they're a playable class. They're literally a "powerless version of the paladin class". And two: this isn't about "power", it's about characteristics.


    "All dark rangers are former farstriders" is not a fact, but a lie. "Taming undead beasts" being the same as "raising undead skeletons" is also not a fact.


    By that same token, you constantly insisting that your opinions are facts doesn't turn those opinions into facts.


    "These cunning individuals, adept at manipulating opponents, are mainly composed of forcibly raised Farstrider rangers of Quel'Thalas." and the lie has been demosntrated.


    Another lie.


    Just like saying death knights are "anything more than evil paladins" is disregarding lore?
    The only dark ranger capable of banshee form is Sylvanas. There isn't a single other dark ranger in lore who do that. Literally not one aside from her. And characteristics don't define a class. Because if that was true, paladins and priests are the exact same. Mages and warlocks are the exact same. Rogues and hunters are the exact same. Classes are determined by how they use their power that separates them from the other classes. Dark rangers function exactly like hunters.

    The only two dark rangers in lore who are NOT undead quel'dorei are Nathanos and Delaryn. And dark rangers can't raise skeletons either. Even Sylvanas can't. The val'kyr do all the raising. And I didn't lie. None of those NPCs are named. I said NAMED NPCs are all quel'dorei. Also, NOTICE HOW THOSE NPCS YOU LINKED ARE ALL HUNTERS.

    Your last comment is so utterly asinine and ridiculous that I legitimately laughed out loud. Death knights have different power source, different training, and have absolutely NO connection to the Light. Meanwhile, ALL dark rangers are risen hunters with next to no special abilities. They have Black Arrow, something hunters had until BfA. A few have Wailing Arrow which hunters are getting soon. AND THAT'S IT.

    This is exactly why you and Teriz argue constantly. You're both incapable of accepting facts and will call them opinions because it doesn't fit your narrative. Then you toss around strawman arguments when that fails.

  13. #253
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    The only dark ranger capable of banshee form is Sylvanas. There isn't a single other dark ranger in lore who do that. Literally not one aside from her.
    You mean, like the Lich King was the only death knight who had frost powers, when literally no other death knight had demonstrated even an inkling of frost powers? Or how Illidan was the only demon hunter able to fly?

    And characteristics don't define a class.
    Thank goodness you don't work as a class designed for WoW, then.

    The only two dark rangers in lore who are NOT undead quel'dorei are Nathanos and Delaryn. And dark rangers can't raise skeletons either. Even Sylvanas can't. The val'kyr do all the raising. And I didn't lie. None of those NPCs are named. I said NAMED NPCs are all quel'dorei. Also, NOTICE HOW THOSE NPCS YOU LINKED ARE ALL HUNTERS.

    Your last comment is so utterly asinine and ridiculous
    Projection.

    that I legitimately laughed out loud.
    And yours make me shake my head in dismay. So what?

    Death knights have different power source, different training, and have absolutely NO connection to the Light.
    How do you know the paladins took "different training" once they accepted the Lich King's deal? Are you going to claim that the Lich King sent them to the "Death Knight Boot Camp" to learn about their new powers? Anyways: dark rangers have a different source of power from the hunters (necromancy), and they do have different "special abilities."

    They have Black Arrow, something hunters had until BfA.
    And warlocks had Metamorphosis for almost just as long. Didn't stop demon hunters from becoming a playable class.

    A few have Wailing Arrow which hunters are getting soon.
    There is a piece of gear that grants that ability. "Hunters" are not getting the ability, especially since it's likely that this" ability" is removed when they start progressing in the 9.2 raid.

    You're both incapable of accepting facts
    Now that's another projection.
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  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    You mean, like the Lich King was the only death knight who had frost powers, when literally no other death knight had demonstrated even an inkling of frost powers? Or how Illidan was the only demon hunter able to fly?


    Thank goodness you don't work as a class designed for WoW, then.

    The only two dark rangers in lore who are NOT undead quel'dorei are Nathanos and Delaryn. And dark rangers can't raise skeletons either. Even Sylvanas can't. The val'kyr do all the raising. And I didn't lie. None of those NPCs are named. I said NAMED NPCs are all quel'dorei. Also, NOTICE HOW THOSE NPCS YOU LINKED ARE ALL HUNTERS.


    Projection.


    And yours make me shake my head in dismay. So what?


    How do you know the paladins took "different training" once they accepted the Lich King's deal? Are you going to claim that the Lich King sent them to the "Death Knight Boot Camp" to learn about their new powers? Anyways: dark rangers have a different source of power from the hunters (necromancy), and they do have different "special abilities."


    And warlocks had Metamorphosis for almost just as long. Didn't stop demon hunters from becoming a playable class.


    There is a piece of gear that grants that ability. "Hunters" are not getting the ability, especially since it's likely that this" ability" is removed when they start progressing in the 9.2 raid.


    Now that's another projection.
    Ok well it's clear you incapable of being mature about this because you'd rather spout wrong information and ad hominem than come up with a legitimate point. Thankfully you don't work for Blizzard and hopefully people like you don't get their way. Because dark ranger is just edgy hunter. If Blizzard actually spent any time making it into a class, it would be one of the biggest wastes of time they ever did.

    Literally nothing you've said about dark rangers is based in facts or in the lore. Even in the links you've provided about dark rangers prove you're wrong which is especially hilarious.

  15. #255
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Anyways: dark rangers have a different source of power from the hunters (necromancy), and they do have different "special abilities."
    According to wowpedia hunters do use necromancy
    As the forsaken were once humans, their traits followed in undeath. The Forsaken's Banshee Queen, Sylvanas Windrunner, was a hunter/ranger during her lifetime and after being raised into undeath by Arthas Menethil found herself out of touch with the wilds, which was replaced by necromancy, making her a dark ranger which would later be taken up by others in the Forsaken.
    but even if they didn’t the source doesn’t matter according to you and almost every ability the dark rangers npcs have end with the same function as hunter abilitys.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    The source of the power is not important if the function is the same.
    How do you know the paladins took "different training" once they accepted the Lich King's deal? Are you going to claim that the Lich King sent them to the "Death Knight Boot Camp" to learn about their new powers?
    there are also atleast two death Knight boot camps we know of in Arceus and Naxx where death knights learn about and train there new powers.
    Last edited by Lorgar Aurelian; 2021-06-10 at 05:07 PM.

  16. #256
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Ok well it's clear you incapable of being mature about this
    Says the guy who uses insults and belittles other people's comments.

    Thankfully you don't work for Blizzard and hopefully people like you don't get their way.
    Oh, but we are "getting our way". We've been "getting our way" since TBC came along. We're slowly but steadily working to ruin the game for you, specifically, and our plan is going smoothly.

    Because dark ranger is just edgy hunter.
    And death knights are edgy paladins.

    Literally nothing you've said about dark rangers is based in facts or in the lore.
    It's easy to say "nothing you said is based on lore or facts" when you ignore all facts and lore. Alright, feel free to have the last word, I'm done with you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    According to wowpedia hunters do use necromancy
    No, it doesn't. It specifically mentions Sylvanas turning into something else, i.e., a dark ranger.

    there are also atleast two death Knight boot camps we know of in Arceus and Naxx where death knights learn about and train there new powers.
    Those are for the third generation death knights. I'm talking about the second generation death knights: those who were not undead, and were once paladins.
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  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Says the guy who uses insults and belittles other people's comments.


    Oh, but we are "getting our way". We've been "getting our way" since TBC came along. We're slowly but steadily working to ruin the game for you, specifically, and our plan is going smoothly.


    And death knights are edgy paladins.


    It's easy to say "nothing you said is based on lore or facts" when you ignore all facts and lore. Alright, feel free to have the last word, I'm done with you.

    - - - Updated - - -


    No, it doesn't. It specifically mentions Sylvanas turning into something else, i.e., a dark ranger.


    Those are for the third generation death knights. I'm talking about the second generation death knights: those who were not undead, and were once paladins.
    And now you're down to splitting hairs because someone proved you wrong. NICE. And death knights are NOT edgy paladins. They aren't capable of wielding the Light anymore at all. Meanwhile, dark rangers really aren't different from hunters at all as has been pointed out by Daemos NUMEROUS times. I've not ignored a single thing about the lore or facts. Unlike you, I actually read everything provided instead of picking and choosing things. Even in the articles you've posted, it proves dark rangers really aren't different from hunters. Being conniving and manipulative isn't a power.

  18. #258
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    No, it doesn't. It specifically mentions Sylvanas turning into something else, i.e., a dark ranger.
    it’s literally under the undead hunter section and says.
    making her a dark ranger which would later be taken up by others in the Forsaken.
    are you really gonna Claim wowpedia is wrong and can be dismissed? Is that the road you want to go down after using it as your source for every thing?


    Those are for the third generation death knights. I'm talking about the second generation death knights: those who were not undead, and were once paladins.
    Naxx has been in use since before arthas was even the lichking.

    Kel'Thuzad met with Anub'arak, who told him of all the power he could wield. Frightened by the horrors that he saw in Naxxramas, Kel'Thuzad teleported out and tried to escape. Unfortunately, he was surrounded by wraiths and was brought back inside.[18]
    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    . They aren't capable of wielding the Light anymore at all.
    Slight nitpick. Technically deathknights can still use the light but with only one(Mabye two) known cases it’s so incredibly rare as to not be possible as you said.

  19. #259
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    it’s literally under the undead hunter section and says. are you really gonna Claim wowpedia is wrong and can be dismissed? Is that the road you want to go down after using it as your source for every thing?
    How did you reach the conclusion considering I used your own article to point out that Sylvnas has been "transformed" into a dark ranger?

    And those are the second generation death knights I was talking about.

    Slight nitpick. Technically deathknights can still use the light but with only one(Mabye two) known cases it’s so incredibly rare as to not be possible as you said.
    This is true. Sir Zeliek was a death knight who could still wield the light. His personality, and therefore his honor and faith, stayed the same after he was made into a death knight, which meant he could still access the light. His body, however, his body was bound to obey Kel'thuzad, basically forcing him to use the Light against those who attack the necropolis.
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  20. #260
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    How did you reach the conclusion considering I used your own article to point out that Sylvnas has been "transformed" into a dark ranger?
    and said article says in regard to undead hunters they took up her ways IE necromancy and even has a picture of an undead hunter shooting a dark magic shot.


    And those are the second generation death knights I was talking about.
    Um no, you said Naxx and arc were used by third generation deathknights not second do you not remember what you just posted or is that a typo and you mean third?

    Those are for the third generation death knights. I'm talking about the second generation death knights: those who were not undead, and were once paladins.
    Naxx has been in use as a training ground or boot camp since the second generation which you said wasn’t a thing.

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