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  1. #1

    I think gear should only come from drops.

    What I mean by that is no weekly chest, no currency, no rating, just drops from bosses.

    I feel like weekly cellphone game style rewards simply allow blizzard a way to cheapy lengthen the gearing process with soft time locks. If you get a week 226 you already earned the item just have the item drop off the boss.

    I don't know maybe I am just getting older and can't stomach grinding anymore but I would just like a direct loot system something entirely driven by what you can do difficulty wise not how long you spend in various systems.

    Might not work for pvp though part of me wonders if simply having items drop every 3-5 games at their rating wouldn't work as well?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    What I mean by that is no weekly chest, no currency, no rating, just drops from bosses.

    I feel like weekly cellphone game-style rewards simply allow blizzard a way to cheapy lengthen the gearing process with soft time locks. If you get a week 226 you already earned the item just have the item drop off by the boss.

    I don't know maybe I am just getting older and can't stomach grinding anymore but I would just like a direct loot system something is entirely driven by what you can do difficulty wise not how long you spend in various systems.

    Might not work for PVP though part of me wonders if simply having items drop every 3-5 games at their rating wouldn't work as well?
    I do like the ease of doing one mythic +15 or capping 1850+mmr in the arena with the boys and being as geared as I need to be for the content I do... but it 100% takes away from the MMO aspect, My friends and I all use to raid together and it was a nice get together every week. Now we literally don't have to raid to stay relevant and log on far less.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by BetrayedOf52 View Post
    Now we literally don't have to raid to stay relevant and log on far less.
    I'm sorry, is there a problem here?
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  4. #4
    Brewmaster Depakote's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    I'm sorry, is there a problem here?
    The main point of doing raids has become moot.

  5. #5
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BetrayedOf52 View Post
    I do like the ease of doing one mythic +15 or capping 1850+mmr in the arena with the boys and being as geared as I need to be for the content I do... but it 100% takes away from the MMO aspect, My friends and I all use to raid together and it was a nice get together every week. Now we literally don't have to raid to stay relevant and log on far less.
    Well, you could blame M+ for that?

    I mean, outside of M+, rated PvP, and raiding, you aren't going to achieve better gear.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    What I mean by that is no weekly chest, no currency, no rating, just drops from bosses.

    I feel like weekly cellphone game style rewards simply allow blizzard a way to cheapy lengthen the gearing process with soft time locks. If you get a week 226 you already earned the item just have the item drop off the boss.

    I don't know maybe I am just getting older and can't stomach grinding anymore but I would just like a direct loot system something entirely driven by what you can do difficulty wise not how long you spend in various systems.

    Might not work for pvp though part of me wonders if simply having items drop every 3-5 games at their rating wouldn't work as well?
    I'd rather have a universal currency, to purchase loot and/or upgrade them, you get more of it depending on content. Of course, content should still drop loot. The only limit on the number of upgrades is the maximum item level available in Mythic raiding for that tier, which is a number that will increase for every new tier.

    Normal dungeons = World content -> Heroic dungeons = Elite World Content = World PvP = Random Battleground -> Low tier rated PvP = Low M+ keys = LFR -> Mid tier rated PvP = Mid M+ keys = Normal Raiding -> High tier rated PvP = High M+ keys = Heroic Raiding -> Mythic Raiding
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  6. #6
    Would be fine if we can offset RNG by being able to keep running bosses like we do in Diablo, but in WoW we can't because we have weekly lockouts.

    A currency is the best way to deal with RNG.

  7. #7
    Gearing in SL was very good, better than in a long time.

    Then they added valor which made heroic raiding useless in the grand scheme of things, and I have barely played since. Instantly made the feel of gearing up being downgraded. I don't use it personally(I am buying the vendor stuff for the valor I get lol, upgraded staff for my mage once, that's it) Shame because I loved the new way. RNG is part of the game, so I only use the gear I get from the raid, m+(non upgraded) and weekly chest, and that's how it is going to be for me.

    Funny how one thing like that can make a game lose the whole immersion of character progression even though I don't participate in it.
    Considering I have around 10 or 11 cutting edges you are wrong.


  8. #8
    Pandaren Monk Nalam the Venom's Avatar
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    Nah.

    Having to "Work" for the gear is not really my cup of tea.

    So i prefer the ease of M+ & weekly vault over learning raid mechs and doing guild raids.

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  9. #9
    Brewmaster Malania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Depakote View Post
    The main point of doing raids has become moot.
    The point of raids is not to get gear. It's too kill mechanically difficult bosses. If you're raiding to get gear to kill bosses to get gear, you're doing it wrong. Never understood why people chase gear as the end goal.

    The gear is used to clear the content you want to do, it's a means to an end. Not the end itself.

    Edit: To say "gear" once more.
    Last edited by Malania; 2021-06-05 at 10:44 AM. Reason: Gear

  10. #10
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Depakote View Post
    The main point of doing raids has become moot.
    Well. The point of raids is the challenge and the story. The gear is the reward and bonus.
    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Gearing in SL was very good, better than in a long time.

    Then they added valor which made heroic raiding useless in the grand scheme of things, and I have barely played since. Instantly made the feel of gearing up being downgraded. I don't use it personally(I am buying the vendor stuff for the valor I get lol, upgraded staff for my mage once, that's it) Shame because I loved the new way. RNG is part of the game, so I only use the gear I get from the raid, m+(non upgraded) and weekly chest, and that's how it is going to be for me.

    Funny how one thing like that can make a game lose the whole immersion of character progression even though I don't participate in it.
    Have you thought about just shifting your interest to M+? I was a pretty hardcore raider for most of my WoW life. Due to general laziness and a complete disinterest in raiding, now I just slum it up in M+ and I'm having a pretty good time.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    What I mean by that is no weekly chest, no currency, no rating, just drops from bosses.

    I feel like weekly cellphone game style rewards simply allow blizzard a way to cheapy lengthen the gearing process with soft time locks. If you get a week 226 you already earned the item just have the item drop off the boss.

    I don't know maybe I am just getting older and can't stomach grinding anymore but I would just like a direct loot system something entirely driven by what you can do difficulty wise not how long you spend in various systems.

    Might not work for pvp though part of me wonders if simply having items drop every 3-5 games at their rating wouldn't work as well?
    I agree with you. There's no excitement in buying gear (unless you level up in vanilla and change from a white item to a green one/green to blue/blue to purple). Plus, money should be the only currency. It's annoying to see a new one pop every time.

    The game has become a Hearthstone-like (a mobile phone game) type of a game, instead of an RPG.

    Go have a look at my proposed changes thread:
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...be-implemented
    Last edited by username993720; 2021-06-05 at 11:04 AM.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Depakote View Post
    The main point of doing raids has become moot.
    Compared to 'raid or die'? Yeah i takes this 1000x.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Crabs have been removed from the game... because if I see another one I’m just going to totally lose it. *sobbing* I’m sorry, I just can’t right now... I just... OK just give me a minute, I’ll be OK..

  14. #14
    First of all, how are you handling PvP gear then? We going back to lootboxes? Some people loved it, some people hated it. Catch-up, as people are discovering right now, is kind of a bitch with the currency system and leads to large time-to-power disparity the more patches there are and constantly requires them to adjust upgrade-levels and honor/conq rates in order to fix. (We'll probably be back to lootboxes before too long once people figure out again the problem lootboxes were trying to solve.)

    But anyway.

    Alternative progression paths reward players for doing the content they like to do. If loot only ever dropped from M+ and Raiding, you'd be more forced to do both in order to stay at a relevant gear level. With sources like the Vault and more, you can more focus on your preferred area of the game and get extra loot and loot options for doing the things you want. Sure, encouraging people to do everything via giving a ton of options isn't ideal right now. That part might have to be removed so it'd be closer to how the old Chest was but just allow for PvP & Raiding in the Chest as alternative clear conditions for the weekly loot rather than adding in options. But for now, I think the Vault in principle of rewarding you for doing activities you choose to do is a fine concept once the options thing is axed from it.

    Getting rid of other loot options would basically kill all other content. If you're ONLY having gear drop, you're killing not only world quests, daily quests, you're also killing reputation, and you're also killing general story questing. Hell, you're killing literally everything that isn't Raiding or Dungeons. And that's not EVERYONE'S jam. SOME people love doing only those things, logging on and doing those things and logging out. But it isn't for everyone. That's basically the definition of a lobby game. Some lobby MMOs are successful, but one of WoW's strengths is that it has a TON of variety in content to do so it can appeal to a wide audience.

    If WoW only focused on raiding and dungeons, even if they are arguably some of its strongest content, it would be alienating a lot of other players -- and especially more casual players who don't progress as far or see new drops after a certain point. This kind of situation happened in WoD, even, when people basically had nothing to do but log on and raid every week because the Garrison did everything else for them. Did it appeal to everyone? No. Not for everyone, obviously. Lots of people quit during WoD. Frankly, more the Garrison & Naval Yard's fault. But, again, anyway:

    They need other ways to progress so they have stuff to do and can stay subbed. Some people want to enjoy the game and stay subbed. Not everyone wants to raid for a week, fully kit out, and quit for six months like clockwork every patch. That kind of mentality I'd argue is more an indicator imo of burnout. Of maybe not being satisfied in your challenges or friendships or whatever it is you should be getting out of the game.

    If you want to focus on dungeons and raids, that's a fine thing to want to be able to do in the game. If you hate leveling, for example, and wish you could JUST be doing dungeons or raids the whole way through instead of leveling, maybe ask for more dungeon and raid like experiences for leveling -- like, actually being able to level with appropriate raid content for an expac, or leveling with M+ or something. There's still a lot of ways they can accommodate players who want challenges in areas of the game they aren't provided, so ask for that instead of asking to just remove things from the game. Removing things from the game rarely goes well unless it's universally hated, and despite how polarizing some things can be for SOME people, a lot of the community still would get upset over the removal of a lot of the extracurricular content if it were taken out.

    Some people complained about the removal of Archaeology, some people would complain about the removal of other professions. Fishing, Pet Battling... like, you'd be advocating for the removal of ways to play the game which are for some people the ONLY reason they play. It wouldn't force these people to play other activities, it just forces them to feel like they have nothing to sub for.

  15. #15
    Pandaren Monk Nalam the Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malania View Post
    The point of raids is not to get gear. It's too kill mechanically difficult bosses. If you're raiding to get gear to kill bosses to get gear, you're doing it wrong. Never understood why people chase gear as the end goal.

    The gear is used to clear the content you want to do, it's a means to an end. Not the end itself.

    Edit: To say "gear" once more.
    Just remember that you are the minority.

    Noone besides the world first guilds (Because they enjoy the race) Would care about raiding if there were no rewards from killing bosses

    The Bosses has always been a means to an end in order to get gear.

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  16. #16
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    What I mean by that is no weekly chest, no currency, no rating, just drops from bosses.
    I don't know maybe I am just getting older and can't stomach grinding anymore but I would just like a direct loot system something entirely driven by what you can do difficulty wise not how long you spend in various systems.
    It is fine to look for that kind of reward system andI truly hope you eventually find a game that offers all the things you dislike about WoW.
    I mean, just off the top of my head in the last two days you have serious problems with:

    -WoW being p2w
    -the gearing system

    That is a whopping part of they game, because it basically affects how you gain power on your character and in every area you participate in to get gear (of which you hate the system) you play with people who potentially "paid to win".

    That said I don't raid or do mythic + and I was totally fine with playing through the Covenant campaign, gathering a bit of anima on the side and upgrade my gear ilv 200 that way. It is suitable for the content I do and I doubt it affects the way YOU play (since you mention ilv 226).

    I don't want to enforce my style of playing and my understanding of game design on you, so I expect the same respect from others. If that is not possible, I can at least rest assured that Blizzard won't be listening to you. Not in the way that you want the game to be.


    Quote Originally Posted by Depakote View Post
    The main point of doing raids has become moot.
    People asked for a progression system outside raids after mythic 25 / 10 was changed to mythic with a fixed site. In the way of "mythic with 20 ppl is too much too handle - mythic 10 is removed. I want to be able to progress with just a few friends"

    Like it or not, Mythic+ was Blizzard's way of listening.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Have you thought about just shifting your interest to M+? I was a pretty hardcore raider for most of my WoW life. Due to general laziness and a complete disinterest in raiding, now I just slum it up in M+ and I'm having a pretty good time.
    Love raiding, and love m+. Latter not as much as before but I blame it on wow fatigue for my part.

    Raiding is still great, and I have like 8 pieces of raidgear on my main. To me that feels great, its been a while since last time. But seeing we have valor from start this time around it will be a bigger focus. So while other in my guild will farm m+ for that, I will farm m+ for fun lol.

    Its not a big issue practically, idgaf if I will be behind a tad, but the feeling of having something like that which makes heroic raidgear being as good, or bad as an achievement(score whatever) which feels a lot easiet doesnt feel that good. But on the other hand those who do m+ need a way to gear up. Though I rather just have them scale up m+ gear again, but in a way that doesnt fix anything with raid vs m+. How good should it be compared to the other content. Its a tough choice design wise. But I am happy both are relevant, its fun right!

    Anyway its just me rambling. Its just my feels. It might be good with a vendor, I just dont like powering up through vendor, was same with the corruption/essence vendor, I stopped playing when that came. Its just not my cup of tea! Drop rng is my favorite.

    I am a raider at heart, m+er by brain In 9.1 my dk is main raider, my mage main m+er. I like that
    Considering I have around 10 or 11 cutting edges you are wrong.


  18. #18
    I think gear should come..

    ..40% from crafting,
    ..35% from treasures/hoards,
    ..15% from quests,
    ..10% from drops,

    you know, like in an actual RPG.

    Edit: Currencies fall somewhere between the quest/crafting part. They are generally not a bad thing, ideally you can buy things from high level artisans, maybe vendors should be it's own category in my above example, though it's essentially just NPC crafting.
    Last edited by Haidaes; 2021-06-05 at 12:57 PM.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    First of all, how are you handling PvP gear then? We going back to lootboxes? Some people loved it, some people hated it. Catch-up, as people are discovering right now, is kind of a bitch with the currency system and leads to large time-to-power disparity the more patches there are and constantly requires them to adjust upgrade-levels and honor/conq rates in order to fix. (We'll probably be back to lootboxes before too long once people figure out again the problem lootboxes were trying to solve.)

    But anyway.

    Alternative progression paths reward players for doing the content they like to do. If loot only ever dropped from M+ and Raiding, you'd be more forced to do both in order to stay at a relevant gear level. With sources like the Vault and more, you can more focus on your preferred area of the game and get extra loot and loot options for doing the things you want. Sure, encouraging people to do everything via giving a ton of options isn't ideal right now. That part might have to be removed so it'd be closer to how the old Chest was but just allow for PvP & Raiding in the Chest as alternative clear conditions for the weekly loot rather than adding in options. But for now, I think the Vault in principle of rewarding you for doing activities you choose to do is a fine concept once the options thing is axed from it.

    Getting rid of other loot options would basically kill all other content. If you're ONLY having gear drop, you're killing not only world quests, daily quests, you're also killing reputation, and you're also killing general story questing. Hell, you're killing literally everything that isn't Raiding or Dungeons. And that's not EVERYONE'S jam. SOME people love doing only those things, logging on and doing those things and logging out. But it isn't for everyone. That's basically the definition of a lobby game. Some lobby MMOs are successful, but one of WoW's strengths is that it has a TON of variety in content to do so it can appeal to a wide audience.

    If WoW only focused on raiding and dungeons, even if they are arguably some of its strongest content, it would be alienating a lot of other players -- and especially more casual players who don't progress as far or see new drops after a certain point. This kind of situation happened in WoD, even, when people basically had nothing to do but log on and raid every week because the Garrison did everything else for them. Did it appeal to everyone? No. Not for everyone, obviously. Lots of people quit during WoD. Frankly, more the Garrison & Naval Yard's fault. But, again, anyway:

    They need other ways to progress so they have stuff to do and can stay subbed. Some people want to enjoy the game and stay subbed. Not everyone wants to raid for a week, fully kit out, and quit for six months like clockwork every patch. That kind of mentality I'd argue is more an indicator imo of burnout. Of maybe not being satisfied in your challenges or friendships or whatever it is you should be getting out of the game.

    If you want to focus on dungeons and raids, that's a fine thing to want to be able to do in the game. If you hate leveling, for example, and wish you could JUST be doing dungeons or raids the whole way through instead of leveling, maybe ask for more dungeon and raid like experiences for leveling -- like, actually being able to level with appropriate raid content for an expac, or leveling with M+ or something. There's still a lot of ways they can accommodate players who want challenges in areas of the game they aren't provided, so ask for that instead of asking to just remove things from the game. Removing things from the game rarely goes well unless it's universally hated, and despite how polarizing some things can be for SOME people, a lot of the community still would get upset over the removal of a lot of the extracurricular content if it were taken out.

    Some people complained about the removal of Archaeology, some people would complain about the removal of other professions. Fishing, Pet Battling... like, you'd be advocating for the removal of ways to play the game which are for some people the ONLY reason they play. It wouldn't force these people to play other activities, it just forces them to feel like they have nothing to sub for.
    Few things here... first for pvp I admit i have no solutions as at best I pvp till I unlock the transmog then stop. It isn't content I enjoy and I have never been invested in it. My gut instinct is to use templates but allow top pvpers to set the templates not blizzard then use those for the season. I say players because blizzard can't balance pve much less pvp just look at any tier to see this.

    As for the rest... I would argue content should stop be rewarding to players once they have it comfortably on farm. I don't really understand the value in doing something hundreds of times over and over again. At some point I think players need to move on and either move up the difficulty ladder or consider rolling a alt. Reputations have been dead for half a dozen expansions at this point. I can't recall a reputation that has offered anything beyond a crafting pattern since...wrath? I think it was wrath..

    If I had to point to past expansions I would say I want a TBC but with entirely new content.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    It is fine to look for that kind of reward system andI truly hope you eventually find a game that offers all the things you dislike about WoW.
    I mean, just off the top of my head in the last two days you have serious problems with:

    -WoW being p2w
    -the gearing system

    That is a whopping part of they game, because it basically affects how you gain power on your character and in every area you participate in to get gear (of which you hate the system) you play with people who potentially "paid to win".

    That said I don't raid or do mythic + and I was totally fine with playing through the Covenant campaign, gathering a bit of anima on the side and upgrade my gear ilv 200 that way. It is suitable for the content I do and I doubt it affects the way YOU play (since you mention ilv 226).

    I don't want to enforce my style of playing and my understanding of game design on you, so I expect the same respect from others. If that is not possible, I can at least rest assured that Blizzard won't be listening to you. Not in the way that you want the game to be.




    People asked for a progression system outside raids after mythic 25 / 10 was changed to mythic with a fixed site. In the way of "mythic with 20 ppl is too much too handle - mythic 10 is removed. I want to be able to progress with just a few friends"

    Like it or not, Mythic+ was Blizzard's way of listening.
    It would be nice to find a game that offered what WoW used to sadly for all of blizzards many,many failings they still do dungeon and raid content leagues better then their competitors ( god speed riot mmo).

    I find your take strange as what I want is what wow was before it changed but now its you who seems to desire wow doesn't change. Perhaps we are nothing more then the old guard and the new clashing.

  20. #20
    Brewmaster Malania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalam the Venom View Post
    Just remember that you are the minority.

    Noone besides the world first guilds (Because they enjoy the race) Would care about raiding if there were no rewards from killing bosses

    The Bosses has always been a means to an end in order to get gear.
    I disagree to be fair.

    You don't have to be in a world first guild to enjoy raiding for the experience. It's why you hear nerd screams after a hard first kill from any guild. I raided because I wanted to fight all these characters from Warcraft history. Kael'thas, Illidan, the Lich King. Sure it's nice to show off the shiny toys you get from clearing mythic Sire so everyone knows you overcame the challenge, but they're still just toys the majority of mythic raiders. Something you replace in 4-6 months.

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