Confused on Veng Talents

[Zorachus]

So I really like Veng DH Tanking, but I'm a casual player, and this Demon Hunter is my alt. At most I will do is M+ keys under 10, and more helping Guildies do stuff, and help my daughter with World Quests and easier dungeons. I anticipate playing this DH mostly in M+ dungeons, but nothing crazy high

The first three rows of talents totally confuse me, with all the Guides I read it seems 50/50 on these first three talents.

- Level 15: Abyssal Strike or Agonizing Flames?
- Level 25: Fallout or Burning Alive?
- Level 30: Charred Flesh or Spirit Bomb?

The rest of the Talents I will use will be Fracture, Sigil of Chains, Demonic, and Last Resort.

[fadedmind]

I’m not sure off top of my head but If you read the detailed version of the builds it’ll tell you why x is picked over z and also when to swap for a specific legendary. Also be sure to check the VDH discord channels. Sorry I’m not too big of a help

I’m pretty sure charred flesh and burning alive are utilized with a fiery brand build and using a specific legendary. Mostly used for pushing keys and also when you want to prioritize survivability in raids over dps.

[Lathspell]

Maybe just pick the one you like best if you are only low keys/wq:s

[salate]

I've got 2 legendaries, top tier for Fire Brand one and fel devastation one. I crafted FelDevastation Cuz it was fun to play with it, but sometimes 20% chance doesnt really help (but sometimes it helped). I have to agree that Fire Brand one is really useful and makes you really powerful in terms of defence.

First of all I want to suggest you to choose talents you want to play with. Because I dont think there are any reasons to mixmax stuff if you dont do high keys. Yeah, it will be easier for healer if you pick the best talents/covenanats and stuff.

When I played with Fel deva legendary, I picked Abbysal Strike. Well to be honest I still play with it even with Fire Brand legendary.
If you have FireBrand Legendary Burning Alive is a must tbh. It makes your firebrand spread like crazy. With legendary you can use it... Hmm Like once per two packs.

I still stick to spirit bomb, I just like this spell.

So, if you wanna be supacool DH with the best talents, pick Fire Brand talents, Fire Brand Legendary, Make yourself a Kyrian

I'm casual myself, playing almost solo, do a single 10+ key everyweek... because well I dont have time to do more stuff And gearing now became a lil pointless cuz of 9.0.5. I jsut having fun when feel to.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/ch...gnaros/liliary

I play with Abyssal Strike and burning alive with spirit bomb though. As Night Fae. Because... well. forest and stuff?

But still. Stick to your game style. Play like you want

[Zorachus]

The only Talent I can see changing or liking more would be the first row, and go with Agonizing Flames instead, I like the idea of it making Immolation Aura lasting 50% longer and increasing your movement speed by 20%. That seems fun and useful?

[De Maffe]

You should pick the talents depending on what build you are going for.

Spirit Bomb build is the one you want to go with if you aren't having troubles with survivability and just need more damage output.
More damage is more aggro and faster times in m+.

If you go for the Spirit Bomb build, then you don't want Burning Alive on lvl 25 and you most likely don't need Agonizing flames on lvl 15.
In the Spirit Bomb build, you want to go for as many 5 soul fragment Spirit Bombs as possible. Fracture gives 2 fragments, that doesn't add up to 5. If you take fallout, you can get an extra 1 fragment from Immolation Aura. So you'll go Immolation Aura (1) -> Fracture (2) -> Fracture (2) = 5 fragments -> Spirit Bomb, repeat.

Now, once you notice that you could use the extra tankiness, you'd best switch over to the Fiery Brand build.

That means you can't take Spirit Bomb for 2 reason:
1. Charred Flesh will increase the uptime of Fiery Brand on your main target.
2. You should combine the Fiery Brand build with the Legendary that decrease it's cooldown for every soul fragment you consume via soul cleave. This means that you should try to consume as many soul fragments via soul cleave, and NOT spirit bomb. Spirit bomb is useful especially when you consume at least 4 fragments, and that's 8 sec of fiery brand cooldown down the drain.

And then you most definitely want to go for Burning Alive, so Fiery Brand becomes a defensive you can use on a pack of mobs, in stead of it just being for 1 target.
For lvl 15 you pick up Agonizing Flames, so in combination with Charred Flesh that increases the uptime of Fiery Brand on your main target.

The lvl 15 tier isn't too restrictive, you can switch over in most builds depending on what you want/need. If you are kiting a lot and you want your jump more, then go for that one. Most people don't see this talent as "you get a free sigil", but "less cooldown".

Your soul consume rotation becomes (more or less) Imolation Aura (for fury generation) -> Fracture (fury and fragments) -> Soul Cleave -> Fracture -> Soul Cleave -> somewhat repeat.

I'd say the fiery brand build is easier to play but harder to play optimally. Spirit Bombing all your fragments away is a thing I miss when you're somehow on 5 fragments and only 30 fury...

TL;DR

Spirit Bomb build:
- Level 15: Abyssal Strike or Agonizing Flames, but most likely Abyssal Strike.
- Level 25: Fallout
- Level 30: Spirit Bomb

Fiery Brand Build:
- Level 15: Agonizing Flames
- Level 25: Burning Alive
- Level 30: Charred Flesh
- Don't forget Fiery Soul legendary!!

[Zorachus]

Thanks for the detailed replies, much appreciated.

Where and when does Demon Spikes fall in? Like when imdoimg that mini rotation you mentioned above, just doing World Quest stuff or easy simple Heroic dungeon mobs.

[Bodakane]

Thanks for the detailed replies, much appreciated.

Where and when does Demon Spikes fall in? Like when imdoimg that mini rotation you mentioned above, just doing World Quest stuff or easy simple Heroic dungeon mobs.

Use it when you anticipate the most damage and not rotationally.

For example, since you're using sigil of chains, use spikes right after you leap into the bunched up group after chains. That's when the most damage will be hitting you because the most mobs are alive. With bosses, they all have tells and DBM to tell you when to pop a defensive, like spikes.

[Zorachus]

Don't forget Fiery Soul legendary!!

Where do I obtain that?

[Puupi]

Don't forget Fiery Soul legendary!!

Where do I obtain that?

Torghast, Soul Forges IIRC.

[Zorachus]

You should pick the talents depending on what build you are going for.

Spirit Bomb build is the one you want to go with if you aren't having troubles with survivability and just need more damage output.
More damage is more aggro and faster times in m+.

If you go for the Spirit Bomb build, then you don't want Burning Alive on lvl 25 and you most likely don't need Agonizing flames on lvl 15.
In the Spirit Bomb build, you want to go for as many 5 soul fragment Spirit Bombs as possible. Fracture gives 2 fragments, that doesn't add up to 5. If you take fallout, you can get an extra 1 fragment from Immolation Aura. So you'll go Immolation Aura (1) -> Fracture (2) -> Fracture (2) = 5 fragments -> Spirit Bomb, repeat.

Now, once you notice that you could use the extra tankiness, you'd best switch over to the Fiery Brand build.

That means you can't take Spirit Bomb for 2 reason:
1. Charred Flesh will increase the uptime of Fiery Brand on your main target.
2. You should combine the Fiery Brand build with the Legendary that decrease it's cooldown for every soul fragment you consume via soul cleave. This means that you should try to consume as many soul fragments via soul cleave, and NOT spirit bomb. Spirit bomb is useful especially when you consume at least 4 fragments, and that's 8 sec of fiery brand cooldown down the drain.

And then you most definitely want to go for Burning Alive, so Fiery Brand becomes a defensive you can use on a pack of mobs, in stead of it just being for 1 target.
For lvl 15 you pick up Agonizing Flames, so in combination with Charred Flesh that increases the uptime of Fiery Brand on your main target.

The lvl 15 tier isn't too restrictive, you can switch over in most builds depending on what you want/need. If you are kiting a lot and you want your jump more, then go for that one. Most people don't see this talent as "you get a free sigil", but "less cooldown".

Your soul consume rotation becomes (more or less) Imolation Aura (for fury generation) -> Fracture (fury and fragments) -> Soul Cleave -> Fracture -> Soul Cleave -> somewhat repeat.

I'd say the fiery brand build is easier to play but harder to play optimally. Spirit Bombing all your fragments away is a thing I miss when you're somehow on 5 fragments and only 30 fury...

TL;DR

Spirit Bomb build:
- Level 15: Abyssal Strike or Agonizing Flames, but most likely Abyssal Strike.
- Level 25: Fallout
- Level 30: Spirit Bomb

Fiery Brand Build:
- Level 15: Agonizing Flames
- Level 25: Burning Alive
- Level 30: Charred Flesh
- Don't forget Fiery Soul legendary!!

Wow that's the best reply ever Really thank you, very detailed great info on the two different builds for DH Tank.

I'm running the Spirit Bomb build now, since I just DING'd 60 few days ago, and it's an alt character, so still in noob gear and low Renown. I need to play this character more and get geared.

But I will say the Spirit Bomb build, can at times feel a bit slow, or waiting on Fracture to be ready again, or some downtime on waiting for spells to be ready, not a lot, but still can at times feel a little wonky.

Would switching to the Soul Cleave / Fiery build be a bit faster or smoother? But since I'm a fresh 60 and not geared yet, is that build not recommended?

[Vampyrr]

So I really like Veng DH Tanking, but I'm a casual player, and this Demon Hunter is my alt. At most I will do is M+ keys under 10, and more helping Guildies do stuff, and help my daughter with World Quests and easier dungeons. I anticipate playing this DH mostly in M+ dungeons, but nothing crazy high

The first three rows of talents totally confuse me, with all the Guides I read it seems 50/50 on these first three talents.

- Level 15: Abyssal Strike or Agonizing Flames?
- Level 25: Fallout or Burning Alive?
- Level 30: Charred Flesh or Spirit Bomb?

The rest of the Talents I will use will be Fracture, Sigil of Chains, Demonic, and Last Resort.

A lot of this depends on gear and what you are doing and what Legendaries you have.

For the first row do you need to move a lot or are you mostly standing still? Abyssal for movement and Agonizing for tank and spank.
Are you going for aoe build or single target? Do you need the extra survivability? If you are getting trucked I would go Burning Alive then Charred Flesh or Infernal Armor. If you are surviving fine go Fallout and Spirit Bomb. Its more aoe dmg with a big burst heal so good for threat gen on packs.

- - - Updated - - -

Wow that's the best reply ever Really thank you, very detailed great info on the two different builds for DH Tank.

I'm running the Spirit Bomb build now, since I just DING'd 60 few days ago, and it's an alt character, so still in noob gear and low Renown. I need to play this character more and get geared.

But I will say the Spirit Bomb build, can at times feel a bit slow, or waiting on Fracture to be ready again, or some downtime on waiting for spells to be ready, not a lot, but still can at times feel a little wonky.

Would switching to the Soul Cleave / Fiery build be a bit faster or smoother? But since I'm a fresh 60 and not geared yet, is that build not recommended?

Fracture is used in every build no matter the content as Veng it doesn't change. Spirit bomb will be your go to build until you get the legendary made that reduces firery brand cd. And then you will alternate depending on difficulty.

[Stacie]

If someone is starting out having issues with threat go spirit bomb build.

If someone is starting out not having issues go fiery brand build. (most people)

If you are at next to no risk of falling over dead (low keys, lfr that kinda thing) ether is fine. (pick what's most fun, personally i still go fiery brand)

If you are in content that you are at risk of falling over dead in go fiery brand. It's almost always best to let the healer if anyone go for a more DPS build over you as a tank. This will let the healers have less to worry about mean they can pick and choose moments to dps/heal.

Healers will love you for being a tanky tank and hate you for being spikey one who wants to focus on doing dps. Always let the healer go for more DPS over tank always! If they die, you can live sometimes and finish up, if others are in trouble they don't have to worry about you so much and might be able to save them instead of having to tunnel you. Its just better for the group imo. Especially in things like raid progression. You won't even loose much combined dps as a group (probably gain it actually overall) as it allows the healer pump more and might even allow them to be able to save someone who they might have had to let die due to healing you! Winning all around! Will if you hit hard enough contents be times that you get the odd few % wipe and the extra DPS/risk might be worth though. Generally though go for surviving over damage.

[George839]

Nice post...

[SamuelRichards]

If you have FireBrand Legendary Burning Alive is a must tbh. It makes your firebrand spread like crazy. With legendary you can use it... Hmm Like once per two packs.

[Zorachus]

So is the Fiery Brand build still the go to recommended one in 9.1?

I’m a casual that mainly does M0 to like M+8 or so. World bosses. LFR. Etc…

This Veng DH is an alt I only play for fun couple nights a week. No Legendaries yet.

[Ealyssa]

I’m a casual that mainly does M0 to like M+8 or so. World bosses. LFR. Etc…

For easy content you can very clearly stay on sould bomb build to max your DPS. And if you want to craft a leg go double beam, or reset beam.
You don't need fiery brand for that, especially without the CD reduction lego.

But as people said. If you don't care. You can just play what you want. Fiery brand is easier as you have pretty much nothing to manage.

[Zorachus]

This alt is only like i195 but I find the Spirit Bomb build a but clunky and not so straightforward.

The Fiery build feels much easier, smoother, and I survive better.

[justandulas]

This alt is only like i195 but I find the Spirit Bomb build a but clunky and not so straightforward.

The Fiery build feels much easier, smoother, and I survive better.

spirit bomb is important for a few reasons, one obviously the AOE damage but often overlooked is that it marks the mobs for 20-30 sec of so, so that you heal for a good bit of the damage you cause during that time. on AOE packs in M+, the amount of healing can be surprising, same for raiding if you keep it up.

Even if you dislike how clunky it can feel sometimes, which i don't entirely disagree with, it's worth it simply for the damage and debuff alone.