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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    while Jaina learned her dad was wrong by witnessing the Horde do exactly what her dad warned her about
    Just had a good 3 minute laugh because of this line.
    The absolute state of Warcraft lore in 2021:
    Kyrians: We need to keep chucking people into the Maw because it's our job.
    Also Kyrians: Why is the Maw growing stronger despite all our efforts?

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by geco View Post
    So you agree that Tyrande-Night Warrior was completely useless so far.
    I think it was a good way to avoid the character going on a path of vengeance and becoming a loot piñata for killing too much.

  3. #23
    It kind of completely killed Tyrande as a character. It was a weak way to kill off a character (Nathanos) that she could have accomplished, maybe with a little help without the "night warrior". And it was a really poor way to introduce a character (Elune) that didn't need an introduciton.

  4. #24
    I mean the point is obvious, that thirsting for revenge or just a general zealous pursuit of anything Maiev style, can eat up your life and make things shitty for everyone.

    In Tyrande's case "eat up your life" is quite literal, the powers of the night warriors are consuming her.

    That it makes Tyrande, and by extension Night Elves as a whole completely toothless is a detail
    Last edited by LarryFromHumanResources; 2021-06-06 at 11:35 PM.
    Corporate wishes everyone a happy new year

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    I think it was a good way to avoid the character going on a path of vengeance and becoming a loot piñata for killing too much.
    Wait what?
    The objective of the night war is .. to nullify the night war?
    So that confirms that it was completely useless.

    Quote Originally Posted by StillMcfuu View Post
    It kind of completely killed Tyrande as a character. It was a weak way to kill off a character (Nathanos) that she could have accomplished, maybe with a little help without the "night warrior". And it was a really poor way to introduce a character (Elune) that didn't need an introduciton.
    Not counting that you managed to make Elune now look worthless or ungrateful.
    Or maybe Elune really hates the Kaldorei.

    All the night wars managed to save his people except Tyrande.
    Last edited by geco; 2021-06-06 at 11:32 PM.

  6. #26
    I suppose people using their imaginations to understand why she is so angry and vengeful (nevermind justified) is too much to ask for today's milquetoast society.

    Like, imagine some dude burning your family alive and instead of taking the option for swift retaliation and punishment to the known perpetrator, you say "I guess the rest of my family doesn't want to see them come to justice, they need me to go hold their hands and give them empty platitudes instead while we wait for things to sort themselves out."

    You pussies would let a dude fuck your girl and then cry about it instead of intervening. Then instead of walking away you'd tell her to do it again if she wanted (feel free to reverse the roles, my point stands).

    I'm starting to think some of you aren't actually human, tbh. If you can't get angry, defensive, or vengeful over the Horde nuking your capital into ashes, then you deserve to be steamrolled tbh. Let's see how that passive, peaceful mentality serves you when the writers decide to have a more realistic outcome for once.

    We need more characters like Tyrande on both sides. War is the entire purpose of the game, or should be. Trauma is a real thing that consumes peoples lives whether you want to accept it or not. Vengeance, depression, sorrow, hatred, and anger are perfectly natural responses to the traumas of life and I'm kind of tired of pretending that it's not. We have plenty of other characters pushing peace as an option, we don't need it from every single character.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by geco View Post
    Wait what?
    The objective of the night war is .. to nullify the night war?
    So that confirms that it was completely useless.


    Not counting that you managed to make Elune now look worthless or ungrateful.
    Or maybe Elune really hates the Kaldorei.

    All the night wars managed to save his people except Tyrande.
    Yeah, I'd say overall it makes Elune seem apathetic to the Night Elves, which I think is honestly fine. Considering all the other planets/races familiar with her it would make the Night Elves just another tree in the woods, which would be fine. But you don't need to introduce her at all to keep that story up. Or even better she lets Tyrande burn up and then she comes down and tells the Night Elves to grow up. There were so many other ways they could have went, but all they did was revert the story back to the day after the Tydrassil was burned. Nothings really changes, Night Elves haven't grown, Tyrande will probably continue to be just as insufferable.

  8. #28
    Like the night elves, there is no point.
    Retail sucks. Classic sucks. No positivity, only negative feedback. Why is everybody so damn miserable? Must be somebody else's fault, it couldn't possibly be my INSANELY TOXIC ATTITUDE.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    To eliminate the last person in the cast motivated by anything except the abstract notion of goodness. Tyrande as the Night Warrior is entirely unimpressive power-wise and she does nothing unreasonable either - the positions she expresses are blindingly obviously correct in all aspects. But they're also personal motives - she's angry about a city worth of her people getting torched and has eyes to see that it wasn't just Sylvanas who was responsible for it. Just like anyone in the Horde who didn't want to sing kumbaya was removed, Genn forgave the Forsaken for the destruction of his home and became a peacenik while Jaina learned her dad was wrong by witnessing the Horde do exactly what her dad warned her about Tyrande too must embrace world peace so the entire Azeroth cast can fully merge into the hivemind.

    It's part of the broader messaging of this and the previous expansion especially but arguably as far back as Wrath too. Any kind of grievance or motivation by anything except universal love for all mankind, any grudge held over harm caused to you or your group is bad and makes you just as bad as the perpetrator. It is a barking form of morality, but it's only once you internalize this that you can also make sense of other choices like how both Arthas and Sylvanas are en route to getting a get out of jail free card and it's Uther who's made to feel bad about how he didn't show compassion to Arthas after Arthas killed everyone Uther'd ever met and cared about and destroyed everything Uther tried to protect.
    Allow me to play Devil's Advocate, if you would, because I can admittedly say that it has always been somewhat of a theme that vengeance will always result in worse harm coming to all people involved, including innocents you pass along the way, throughout all of Warcraft's story starting from Warcraft III. In Warcraft III, it was most prominent in the story of Arthas, but also highlighted in the story of Maiev - both, in going too far in the means by which they sought justice, did far more harm than good, the former to others and the latter to herself. Early in the Human campaign, Uther even points out that if Arthas were to seek out vengeance against the Orcs through too drastic means when fighting the Blackrock, he would become just as vile as them, and this sentiment echoes through the story as Arthas eventually condemns mercenaries to die, traps his men in Northrend, and eventually quite literally loses his soul to the pursuits of retribution.

    In a way, you could picture that there is a certain distinction between good and bad vengeance, and good vengeance is the kind of holy retribution where it's for the sake of others, not yourself, that you seek vengeance. In a way, this does mean that it is best, quite sincerely, when you are chasing the universal good. Of course, as the Scourge showed in WotLK (with a bit of elaboration on their motives painting them as, from their perspectives, utilitarian utopists who were only trying to bring about a world free of pain), even utilitarian universal pursuit of the elimination of all suffering can result in, ironically, just causing unnecessary suffering in the pursuit of a great good that you can never really achieve in this lifetime. Of course, this isn't to say Blizzard should have made every character so one-dimensional, but I do believe it is still within the themes to make vengeance out to be a bad thing when you go to too far lengths to achieve it. Tyrande, insofar as she may have wanted to prevent more harm from coming to her people or others in the future, was right to chase Sylvanas, but she, much like Maiev and Arthas, would go too far when it becomes more about events which already transpired than the future harm which may be caused.

    What ought to have happened, for sure, is that this should have been a slower arc. Having her be redeemed because Elune isn't sufficient - what should have happened, in my opinion, is a long and gradual arc exploring her search for vengeance - possibly drawing comparisons with Maiev, Arthas, and even Sylvanas, all of whom who have been motivated by vengeance before, would have been interesting. Thus far, Maiev has been denied her vengeance and found herself happier because of it (as she has since seemingly moved on from Illidan), Arthas has achieved it and then became corrupted and eventually died as a result, and Sylvanas - most critically - was denied it and then fell into deeper corruption and will presumably die as a result. Perhaps to complete this, Tyrande is denied time and again whilst still chasing vengeance, but eventually realizes that what really matters is to protect others from the risk Sylvanas poses, learning to temper herself but maintaining the power of the Night Warrior - Elune is a very matriarchal, protective deity, so it would make sense to reveal that the real cause of the risk drawn from it wasn't because of the power it holds, but simply because of Tyrande's own use of it. She is no longer at risk when she finally realizes that the real power of Elune's Night Warrior aspect comes not from hatred, but from the desire to preserve what she loves, and continues her hunt with her primary interest being to save the Night Elves still stuck in Torghast and end Sylvanas' reign of terror once and for all.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    Not all stories have to resolve throughout the course of one expansion - Sylvanas' story went on for a long time. Tyrande's might go on much longer, too.

    For what it's worth, if the Night Warrior path had ended so immediately, there's usually only one path that vengeance leads to -- that's a lot of killing, a lot of being evil, and a lot of being turned into a loot piñata. So unless you want Tyrande dead ASAP, I don't think asking for resolution to the Night Warrior immediately would be for the best at all.

    More can be done with the Night Warrior - barely anything has been done with it so far. And while it'd make sense for Tyrande to axe off Sylvanas with the power, considering how negatively people reacted to huge power-showboating like Sylvanas and Nathanos souring people's jimmies, and how negatively people reacted to characters like Thrall kill-stealing Garrosh, Tirion kill-stealing the Lich King, Thrall kill-stealing Deathwing, and more, you need to be more understanding that they were probably approaching this with a mentality of avoiding negative tropes like that.

    And besides the whole huge power Mary-Sue aversion, and aversion to kill-stealing final boss characters, there's also the issue of the story perhaps just arriving and being done all at once in one expansion. For themes and stories that are received well, it's actually great that we potentially have the opportunity to see more of this story now that people are saying they want more of it. Alternatively, there have been stories with characters like Deathwing, or Kael'thas, or Vash'j, and more who all felt like they could have had more time in the sun. Shadowlands was an opportunity to keep telling stories that didn't all have their fair shake, so it would be very tone-deaf if during that same expansion they introduced a cool story and completely finalized it just like all these characters they were fixing. It would show that they hadn't learned the lesson.

    What they've done, ironically, is prove that they aren't going to take the character on a murder train to turn into a piñata, that the power isn't just going to turn the character into a Mary Sue trope, that they aren't going to kill steal a final boss for us and deny us all glory, and that the story of that character isn't just going to leave as soon as it arrived. They're avoiding potential missteps with this. They're being CAREFUL with the Night Warrior. And can you blame them? Malfurion and Tyrande got a LOT of shit during Legion. They had to be careful with Tyrande this time because if it went south again, they'd have a mile-long bad track record with an otherwise beloved character.

    Again, the Night Warrior story doesn't have to be over here. It can still continue later when it's relevant. Perhaps when we're dealing with the Jailer isn't the best time for it. Having Tyrande kill-steal Sylvanas like all the other final bosses -- would that be universally accepted as a good end to the Night Warrior? Some might enjoy it, others wouldn't. A very vocal group of people hate the final boss kill-stealing. I think it's smart to avoid that and to let the Night Warrior lead on into other things -- like potentially further Forsaken-Night Elf skirmishes in the future, or having the Night Warrior actually relate to more Elune-related things in the narrative rather than only serving as a vengeance device against Sylvanas. There's more that can be done still.
    Nah. Its ONLY saving grace was either a kill on Sylvanas or some Doom level massacre of the Horde forces.

    Since neither happened it literally went the way of a wet fart - embarrassing and worthless.

    I’d rather see her die in a blaze of glory and save the face of a whole race (which is already smeared to the point of no return almost) rather then go on as a pale shadow of herself, accepting the cuckoldry.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    I think it was a good way to avoid the character going on a path of vengeance and becoming a loot piñata for killing too much.
    Why should she be killed though? Sylvanas was killing, torturing and mutilating left and right for no good reason since Cata and she is STILL not “confirmed” to die anytime soon.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dazmalak View Post
    I suppose people using their imaginations to understand why she is so angry and vengeful (nevermind justified) is too much to ask for today's milquetoast society.

    Like, imagine some dude burning your family alive and instead of taking the option for swift retaliation and punishment to the known perpetrator, you say "I guess the rest of my family doesn't want to see them come to justice, they need me to go hold their hands and give them empty platitudes instead while we wait for things to sort themselves out."

    You pussies would let a dude fuck your girl and then cry about it instead of intervening. Then instead of walking away you'd tell her to do it again if she wanted (feel free to reverse the roles, my point stands).

    I'm starting to think some of you aren't actually human, tbh. If you can't get angry, defensive, or vengeful over the Horde nuking your capital into ashes, then you deserve to be steamrolled tbh. Let's see how that passive, peaceful mentality serves you when the writers decide to have a more realistic outcome for once.

    We need more characters like Tyrande on both sides. War is the entire purpose of the game, or should be. Trauma is a real thing that consumes peoples lives whether you want to accept it or not. Vengeance, depression, sorrow, hatred, and anger are perfectly natural responses to the traumas of life and I'm kind of tired of pretending that it's not. We have plenty of other characters pushing peace as an option, we don't need it from every single character.
    You talking bullshit. Nobody in Alliance aside from 3.5 MHPs with brain cancer wanted to forgive the Horde.

    Everybody expected something to come out of the whole “fourth war” ASIDE from retarded peace. Retarded because it sets Alliance as sitting ducks again , waiting helplessly for horde to chimp out for Nth time and go slaughtering again. Or just to resume their usual “harass the border and pillage your towns during “peace” times”.

    Its demented crap, and nobody agreed to it but devs just hamfisted it anyway.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by StillMcfuu View Post
    Yeah, I'd say overall it makes Elune seem apathetic to the Night Elves, which I think is honestly fine. Considering all the other planets/races familiar with her it would make the Night Elves just another tree in the woods, which would be fine. But you don't need to introduce her at all to keep that story up. Or even better she lets Tyrande burn up and then she comes down and tells the Night Elves to grow up. There were so many other ways they could have went, but all they did was revert the story back to the day after the Tydrassil was burned. Nothings really changes, Night Elves haven't grown, Tyrande will probably continue to be just as insufferable.
    Yes and no.
    We can assume that suddenly the Kaldorei are no longer the "sons of Elune". but then why do the Kaldorei have to do so many things in the name of Elune? Because he gave them his son.
    This is like they suddenly said that Broswandi does not care about Trolls or that the Light does not give power to his faithful but randomly.

    So the current state is that it seems that everything about the night war and Teldrazzil happened because Elune had to give something to his sister. In other word, Elune is guilty of everything that happened to the Kaldorei. Even Elune has plans for souls.

    So ... Elune is the new enemy of the Kaldorei? She is using them as arrows and not even caring about his future, suffering or her souls.

    Elune is somehow even worse than Loth.

    It's like the Night War is just to tell you that you didn't just ask for the life of your people. Besides, Elune hates you and I always hate you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    What ought to have happened, for sure, is that this should have been a slower arc. Having her be redeemed because Elune isn't sufficient - what should have happened, in my opinion, is a long and gradual arc exploring her search for vengeance - possibly drawing comparisons with Maiev, Arthas, and even Sylvanas, all of whom who have been motivated by vengeance before, would have been interesting. Thus far, Maiev has been denied her vengeance and found herself happier because of it (as she has since seemingly moved on from Illidan), Arthas has achieved it and then became corrupted and eventually died as a result, and Sylvanas - most critically - was denied it and then fell into deeper corruption and will presumably die as a result. Perhaps to complete this, Tyrande is denied time and again whilst still chasing vengeance, but eventually realizes that what really matters is to protect others from the risk Sylvanas poses, learning to temper herself but maintaining the power of the Night Warrior - Elune is a very matriarchal, protective deity, so it would make sense to reveal that the real cause of the risk drawn from it wasn't because of the power it holds, but simply because of Tyrande's own use of it. She is no longer at risk when she finally realizes that the real power of Elune's Night Warrior aspect comes not from hatred, but from the desire to preserve what she loves, and continues her hunt with her primary interest being to save the Night Elves still stuck in Torghast and end Sylvanas' reign of terror once and for all.
    Maiev took revenge, she did it until she was bored with revenge and she is only better now that she is plotting for her.
    There is a song that explains this perfectly but it is in Spanish. XD

    Maiev's problem was his addiction that I overcame that by "background story that we don't tell you because she is a woman. He is not orc or human. Maiev managed to end the danger of Illidian

    And on the other hand Tyrande does not manage to end the reign of Terro de Sylvanas ... so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dazmalak View Post
    I suppose people using their imaginations to understand why she is so angry and vengeful (nevermind justified) is too much to ask for today's milquetoast society.

    Like, imagine some dude burning your family alive and instead of taking the option for swift retaliation and punishment to the known perpetrator, you say "I guess the rest of my family doesn't want to see them come to justice, they need me to go hold their hands and give them empty platitudes instead while we wait for things to sort themselves out."

    You pussies would let a dude fuck your girl and then cry about it instead of intervening. Then instead of walking away you'd tell her to do it again if she wanted (feel free to reverse the roles, my point stands).

    I'm starting to think some of you aren't actually human, tbh. If you can't get angry, defensive, or vengeful over the Horde nuking your capital into ashes, then you deserve to be steamrolled tbh. Let's see how that passive, peaceful mentality serves you when the writers decide to have a more realistic outcome for once.

    We need more characters like Tyrande on both sides. War is the entire purpose of the game, or should be. Trauma is a real thing that consumes peoples lives whether you want to accept it or not. Vengeance, depression, sorrow, hatred, and anger are perfectly natural responses to the traumas of life and I'm kind of tired of pretending that it's not. We have plenty of other characters pushing peace as an option, we don't need it from every single character.
    +10

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    Nah. Its ONLY saving grace was either a kill on Sylvanas or some Doom level massacre of the Horde forces.

    Since neither happened it literally went the way of a wet fart - embarrassing and worthless.

    I’d rather see her die in a blaze of glory and save the face of a whole race (which is already smeared to the point of no return almost) rather then go on as a pale shadow of herself, accepting the cuckoldry.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Why should she be killed though? Sylvanas was killing, torturing and mutilating left and right for no good reason since Cata and she is STILL not “confirmed” to die anytime soon.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You talking bullshit. Nobody in Alliance aside from 3.5 MHPs with brain cancer wanted to forgive the Horde.

    Everybody expected something to come out of the whole “fourth war” ASIDE from retarded peace. Retarded because it sets Alliance as sitting ducks again , waiting helplessly for horde to chimp out for Nth time and go slaughtering again. Or just to resume their usual “harass the border and pillage your towns during “peace” times”.

    Its demented crap, and nobody agreed to it but devs just hamfisted it anyway.
    Nah, dude. Plenty of cucks on these forums fit what I was talking about. They want peace and unification at the cost of all else. You may not be one of them and that's fine. I agree with you, shit is stupid either way. I was a Horde player before I quit, but even I see the Alliance as you described them: "sitting ducks".

    I think it's a shame. I want both factions to be at each other's throats for perceived and real wrongs, because it's what makes the game interesting to me. I will say I don't expect or really want an overall winner, though. But victories can be achieved without winning wars. The entire concept of just giving up ultimate power for the sake of peace is beyond incomprehensible though and the Night Warrior is just as much of a joke as the rest of the night elf race now.
    Last edited by Dazmalak; 2021-06-07 at 12:32 AM.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Dazmalak View Post
    Nah, dude. Plenty of cucks on these forums fit what I was talking about. They want peace and unification at the cost of all else. You may not be one of them and that's fine. I agree with you, shit is stupid either way. I was a Horde player before I quit, but even I see the Alliance as you described them: "sitting ducks".

    I think it's a shame. I want both factions to be at each other's throats for perceived and real wrongs, because it's what makes the game interesting to me. I will say I don't expect or really want an overall winner, though. But victories can be achieved without winning wars.
    And those people about amount for 3.5 braindead MHPs who got their brains shrivelled by all that Light in their heads.

    I can go on and on why Alliance (or rather Anduin) taking position of “peace at all cost” is not just wrong but also MORALLY wrong. Yes, its a “difficult” concept but sacrificing your people, your allies and your future for “peace” is bad.

    Especially when you do NOTHING to ensure that peace remains. Because what will hold Horde from chimping out again?

    Has Anduin ensured that they CANT do that? Have he resolved the security issues and defensive failures? Had ANYTHING being done to make Alliance, a DEFENSIVE PACT btw truly capable of defence and retaliation?

    The walls, the armies, the preventive measures, shrewd politicking which will capitalise on Horde’s current state to weaken them or at least put a dampener on their warmongering?

    I am baffled how they dont even know that peace dosent mean “turn around and walk away”.

    After all - “If you want peace , prepare for war.” Is a saying for a reason.

    Alliance citizens will suffer for that, Alliance civilians and those innocents whom Anduin claim to champion will die when horde attacks. Its NOBLE to defend them with force if need be. Its GOOD to stand against those who wish you harm and its RIGHTEOUS to smite those who wronged you grievously.

    What of that dosent fit with “good” aligned faction? You can be both good and yet not a fucken rug.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    And those people about amount for 3.5 braindead MHPs who got their brains shrivelled by all that Light in their heads.

    I can go on and on why Alliance (or rather Anduin) taking position of “peace at all cost” is not just wrong but also MORALLY wrong. Yes, its a “difficult” concept but sacrificing your people, your allies and your future for “peace” is bad.

    Especially when you do NOTHING to ensure that peace remains. Because what will hold Horde from chimping out again?

    Has Anduin ensured that they CANT do that? Have he resolved the security issues and defensive failures? Had ANYTHING being done to make Alliance, a DEFENSIVE PACT btw truly capable of defence and retaliation?

    The walls, the armies, the preventive measures, shrewd politicking which will capitalise on Horde’s current state to weaken them or at least put a dampener on their warmongering?

    I am baffled how they dont even know that peace dosent mean “turn around and walk away”.

    After all - “If you want peace , prepare for war.” Is a saying for a reason.

    Alliance citizens will suffer for that, Alliance civilians and those innocents whom Anduin claim to champion will die when horde attacks. Its NOBLE to defend them with force if need be. Its GOOD to stand against those who wish you harm and its RIGHTEOUS to smite those who wronged you grievously.

    What of that dosent fit with “good” aligned faction? You can be both good and yet not a fucken rug.
    I suppose my post is in large directed at the goobers at Blizzard writing this drivel. In any case, yes, goodness and negligence are different things and I am fine with the Alliance being that faction of stalwart defense and maintaining order in the face of terror and chaos threatened by both the Horde and other external threats. I'd prefer the Horde embrace it's conquer and destroy roots to counter that rather than continually push, lose, turn "good" for a day, rinse, repeat. They don't need to win, they just need to stand in contrast to the Alliance.

    Good people are capable and often do "bad" things in order to serve a higher purpose, anyway. Often individuals will take that burden on themselves (like Tyrande) in order to spare anyone else from having to deal with the weight and consequences of those actions.

    Her taking on the Night Warrior power should have been a heroic choice, knowing full well it would kill her, but it was a price she was willing to pay to see her people avenged and to give the Horde a reason to second-guess attacking them again. Maybe she survives it, maybe not, but the intent is what matters.

  15. #35
    I'm utterly puzzled as well. It's supposed to be a dangerous ritual but she suffers no aftereffects beyond throwaway lines about it killing her. It's supposed to make her stupid powerful but all she does is nuke a dozen Forsaken mooks, kill one Val'kyr and execute a wounded Nathanos, all things she should have been easily able to do without any help. It's supposed to make her an embodiment of wrath and such, but she remains quite reasonable in her grievances, can have civil if terse conversations with people she doesn't like, and doesn't descend down any moral slippery slope, literally everyone she killed deserved it a hundred times over.

    It feels like a holdover of BfA's hamfisted message of peace at all costs and in spite of any sense, the one last loose end Blizzard nipped in the bud for the moment before re-igniting the faction war in 11.0 or 12.0 for marketing's sake.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Dazmalak View Post
    I suppose my post is in large directed at the goobers at Blizzard writing this drivel. In any case, yes, goodness and negligence are different things and I am fine with the Alliance being that faction of stalwart defense and maintaining order in the face of terror and chaos threatened by both the Horde and other external threats. I'd prefer the Horde embrace it's conquer and destroy roots to counter that rather than continually push, lose, turn "good" for a day, rinse, repeat. They don't need to win, they just need to stand in contrast to the Alliance.

    Good people are capable and often do "bad" things in order to serve a higher purpose, anyway. Often individuals will take that burden on themselves (like Tyrande) in order to spare anyone else from having to deal with the weight and consequences of those actions.

    Her taking on the Night Warrior power should have been a heroic choice, knowing full well it would kill her, but it was a price she was willing to pay to see her people avenged and to give the Horde a reason to second-guess attacking them again. Maybe she survives it, maybe not, but the intent is what matters.
    The fact that she achieved nothing with it really sucks. It was supposed to make horde (as you said) second guess attacking night elfs or pushing them to desperation with repeated attacks because they have a “nuke option” in the form of Night Warrior. A perfect way to show that night elves are no a punching bag race.

    One of the reasons i dislike “evil” horde is because it always ends up in humiliating Alliance through and through and then facing no consequences by some shitty copout. If we had war where Alliance portrayed as strong, competent and with its pride intact, even if with some defeats that would be fine. You know, back and forth. But we dont have that kind of wars…

    Now with their “night elves must focus on rebuilding” bullshit, what will deter the Horde from attacking them again? Because they already “focused on rebuilding” after Warcraft 3 (and were harassed by Warsong endlessly despite having a peace treaty and a trade deal). And all it came tumbling down in Cata when Horde invaded.

    They “focused on rebuilding” AFTER Cata… only for BfA to ruin it all AGAIN when Horde invaded…

    I see a pattern here.

    It feels like night elfs (and Alliance in general) are not only cucked out of revenge but also only rebuild things do horde had something to break next time they decide to invade.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by TrueHorde View Post
    Again, the Night Warrior story doesn't have to be over here.
    ------------------------
    No,it will end in 9.1
    No matter what people think, it's just like that...
    We got introduced to the vrykul in Wrath. Didn't know who they were or what they wanted until Legion, and their story still isn't done. They brought the tol'vir back in the last patch of BFA with new lore after introducing in Cata.

    If they never do anything with it again, it was still used to introduce the night warrior cosmetic thing. Would've been nice to have a storyline about the blood elf gold eyes.
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    We got introduced to the vrykul in Wrath. Didn't know who they were or what they wanted until Legion, and their story still isn't done. They brought the tol'vir back in the last patch of BFA with new lore after introducing in Cata.

    If they never do anything with it again, it was still used to introduce the night warrior cosmetic thing. Would've been nice to have a storyline about the blood elf gold eyes.
    I think you got lost in the concept of the night warrior.
    The warrior invoked in the darkest hour to be the representation of revenge.

    If in 2 expansions it becomes relevant. But he was still useless in helping the Kaldorei in their darkest hour. Then it's going to continue to be disappointing.
    It is clear that in two expansions an "even darker hour" passes.

    On the other hand the Vaykull are a race. They do not exist for a reason nor were they invoked to fulfill a function.

    About being a cosmetic story. If it's a "These eyes represent that Elune's power is trash" story.

    PS: If instead, for example, the night warrior was Maiev and his power was used to recover the Kaldorei territory or for something (Although it is not something great. But something useful) If it would be enough.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    Danuser can't stop doing shit like this in his fanfictions. Best to just put all your attention solely on the art and not the writing.
    I'm assuming you mean the art of the cinematics and maybe the zones because my god I have to ask myself if the gear design team just was completely fired during covid so they just had 1 set of gear for the whole expansion. Then again the gear in BfA also seemed very one dimensional as well, but there was slightly more variance.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    Nah. Its ONLY saving grace was either a kill on Sylvanas or some Doom level massacre of the Horde forces.

    Since neither happened it literally went the way of a wet fart - embarrassing and worthless.

    I’d rather see her die in a blaze of glory and save the face of a whole race (which is already smeared to the point of no return almost) rather then go on as a pale shadow of herself, accepting the cuckoldry.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Why should she be killed though? Sylvanas was killing, torturing and mutilating left and right for no good reason since Cata and she is STILL not “confirmed” to die anytime soon.
    Tyrande got her massacre of Horde soldiers in the Battle For Darkshroe anyway. We got cinematics where Tyrande and Malfurion were triumphant. They pushed Nathanos out, Tyrande even tracked him down, and then she killed him and his dogs. Granted, he was aiming to go to the Shadowlands, so that part can be considered a half-loss half-victory (as now he could be killed permanently in the SL if she wanted to), but losing the Warfront couldn't have been good for the war effort of delivering more souls to Sylvanas and the Jailer.

    The community tends to turn their backs on major characters when they kill often enough, no matter how justified they are. When characters get too violent -- like Varian, or Jaina better yet -- Theramore was a terrible tragedy, and she was going to wipe out Orgrimmar for it. Despite Jaina's vengeance being as justified as Tyrande's was, it was literally the same situation present -- but Thrall had to talk Jaina down because players rebelled against the violent Jaina. If Jaina had followed through with the massacre, players would have continued to demand Jaina's head on a pike. Same situation here. Jaina was also in a situation at the time where players were lamenting the whole "My King..." thing. And in Legion, people were lamenting the "Tyrande, I need you," bit. People have more forgiveness for the Tyrande violent amazon fantasy, but understand more is at stake here than JUST the story having a satisfying ending. It's the character potentially falling into Mary Sue trappings if the power trip goes on too long. It's the Vengeance cycle going on too long and making the character unlikable. It's the kill-stealing taking all our hard work and making it worthless. It's also the potential wasting of story-arcs of characters like Sylvanas and the Jailer at the same time as all of that. It could be a much bigger mess than JUST one character - it could be multiple, and it could damage Tyrande more for longer if it had been done like that. It was the safe move, and frankly, to avoid the outrage, I think it was the best choice.

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