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  1. #101
    Over 9000! Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    Why would any mythic raider expect gear upgrades from M0?
    Because they are seriously spoiled at this point. Some of them honestly think that the entire game should revolve and be designed just for them, and $&#@ the rest of the playerbase.

    Btw, the vault of OPness isn't helping either tbh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    When people get so much welfare loot they complain they can't get heroic raid gear from logging on immediately instead they have to wait an entire week....

    Catering to casuals was a fucking mistake. O TBC you are the crown jewel of wow but an artist should never produce their masterpiece so young in their lives...
    Catering to casuals is one of the main reasons that allowed WoW to take off as strongly as it did, especially during Vanilla/BC. I still remember many butthurt EQ players calling WoW "MMO for dummies", "World of Grandmacraft", or other supposedly witty phrases in the same vein. Coincidentally or not, the times when the game attempted to go into full Git Gud™ mode was when it started to massively hemorrhage players - the same players that fund the hardcore crowd's fancy toys.

    If you want a full hardcore-oriented MMO, you can always go play Wildst... Nvm, I forgot that it tanked harder than a bag full of bricks
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  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Because they are seriously spoiled at this point. Some of them honestly think that the entire game should revolve and be designed just for them, and $&#@ the rest of the playerbase.

    Btw, the vault of OPness isn't helping either tbh.

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    Catering to casuals is one of the main reasons that allowed WoW to take off as strongly as it did, especially during Vanilla/BC. I still remember many butthurt EQ players calling WoW "MMO for dummies", "World of Grandmacraft", or other supposedly witty phrases in the same vein. Coincidentally or not, the times when the game attempted to go into full Git Gud™ mode was when it started to massively hemorrhage players - the same players that fund the hardcore crowd's fancy toys.

    If you want a full hardcore-oriented MMO, you can always go play Wildst... Nvm, I forgot that it tanked harder than a bag full of bricks
    I mean there is casual.. in the sense they only play a few hours a week. Then there is casual as in they wear cloth on a warrior and only use one ability. Over the years wow has catered less and less to the former and more and more to the later...

    Also I wish people actually played wildstar. If anything wow keeps changing more and more into becoming wildstar. It wasn't some crazy hard core difficulty game but one that had absurd amounts of grinding. It took months to make your abilities at level something that wasn't seen in a western mmo till legion...

  3. #103
    It's been like that since fucking forever. Seriously, Main characters did not need something from Isle of Quel'danas, main character never needed anything from the catchup stuff from any WotlK Patch, and we can do this for every patch where CATCHUP gear came from.
    Because it is CATCHUP gear. CATCHUP.

    C A T C H U P.

    I dislike the fact that it's no longer upgradeable, too. But those Megadungeons were always Catchup gearing source. Just like every new questhub.
    Last edited by Poopsnacker; 2021-06-15 at 01:13 PM.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    gonna stop you right there. the mega dungeon gives 226 gear, which is current level mythic gear. You say that a large portion of the playerbase is being excluded from this content; first off, that is just rubbish - there wouldn't be that many players who are fully mythic geared compared to the rest of the playerbase. secondly, the dungeon opens immediately while the raid usually waits a week or two - this will mean that players who didn't raid at a mythic level will be able to get 226 gear, which will be an upgrade for them - and that is the majority of the playerbase, not people who have been raiding non stop mythic for the entire first patch
    whats there to stop? The new content only rewarding 226 means its useless to the 2200+pvp/mythic dungs+15 and mythic raiding portion of the playerbase. Its catchup content for the ppl who are behind in gear and possibly some alts.

    Its so odd that blizz keeps punishing their more active player in this way, releasing content that are undertuned and irrelevant to them. The size of the playerbase alienated is irrelevant, whats relevant is that blizzard is purposefully exlcuding a portion of their player base from the new patchcontent for no reason. Its idiotic...
    Last edited by Aphrel; 2021-06-15 at 01:34 PM.
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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    whats there to stop? The new content only rewarding 226 means its useless to the 2200+pvp/mythic dungs+15 and mythic raiding portion of the playerbase. Its catchup content for the ppl who are behind in gear and possibly some alts.

    Its so odd that blizz keeps punishing their more active player in this way, releasing content that are undertuned and irrelevant to them. The size of the playerbase alienated is irrelevant, whats relevant is that blizzard is purposefully exlcuding a portion of their player base from the new patchcontent for no reason. Its idiotic...
    I'm not arguing that. but OP said it was a "large portion of the playerbase"; which is isn't.

  6. #106
    Why would an m0 dungeon reward higher than normal raid? Also not being rewarding ilvl wise doesn't stop mythic geared players from doing the dungeon. Surely there are other reasons for trying out new content than ilvl upgrades? A lot of people push high m+ too even if there are no item rewards.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lathspell View Post
    Why would an m0 dungeon reward higher than normal raid? Also not being rewarding ilvl wise doesn't stop mythic geared players from doing the dungeon. Surely there are other reasons for trying out new content than ilvl upgrades? A lot of people push high m+ too even if there are no item rewards.
    I think that Taz loot ilvl is just fine, except that there should be at least a couple of drops upgradeable to 233, so the hardcore crowd still has something to do with it.
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  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    I think that Taz loot ilvl is just fine, except that there should be at least a couple of drops upgradeable to 233, so the hardcore crowd still has something to do with it.
    There still wouldn't be any point for the hardcore crowd - 15s would be higher ilvl, and more efficient valor use (assuming that no Taz trinkets are wildly over-tuned). Again, not to say that 226 is wrong - it seems bang on the money for what it is.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    Why exclude a large portion of the playerbase
    The people who farm absolute BIS highest itemlevel in every slot are not "large portion of the playerbase" lmao

  10. #110
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    We already are in the longest content draught for a first patch ever and it will still take a while for 9.1 to arrive. When it finally arrives, one of the big features will be completely meaningless for many main characters, because it offers no upgrades for them.
    Why exclude a large portion of the playerbase from this content? It's not like the alternatives are abundant.
    was return to karazhan and mechagon dead on arrival?
    cause this ilvl settup is exactly the same as return to kara and mechagon was.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    Every mythic Raider or at least halfway serious m+ player is at least 224 at this point. That is a large fraction of the playerbase. Is it the biggest? Most likely not, but I never claimed that
    you really think mythic raiders
    i would like to point out, based pure on warcraft logs data
    for every 1 kill on mythic, there is 10 kills on heroic, and 10 kills on normal.
    so if we dont include people not raiding, or people doing lfr, mythic kills is a 1 in 21 ratio.
    thats about 5%.
    again if we ignore that normal far less people track kills, and also that LFR is not tracked.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    was return to karazhan and mechagon dead on arrival?
    cause this ilvl settup is exactly the same as return to kara and mechagon was.

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    you really think mythic raiders
    i would like to point out, based pure on warcraft logs data
    for every 1 kill on mythic, there is 10 kills on heroic, and 10 kills on normal.
    so if we dont include people not raiding, or people doing lfr, mythic kills is a 1 in 21 ratio.
    thats about 5%.
    again if we ignore that normal far less people track kills, and also that LFR is not tracked.
    Don't forget, m+15s players and 2200 rated arena/rbg playersalso sits on a bunch of 226 gear. And those crowds are just as alienated by blizzard as the mythic raiding crowd.
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  12. #112
    Right, that's how the previous two mega dungeons were as well.
    The game just had titanforging.

    Which everyone screamed at the top of their lungs about until it was removed.

    You reap what you sow, and frankly, the longer this game remains in development, the less interest I have in hearing what the community says about it.
    I feel like I see this WAY too often any more, where Blizzard "listens" and then people complain about a problem that has arisen because they did exactly what a group of people asked for.

    Its beyond tiring.
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  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatNameForSmurfingExTee View Post
    Yes, most player have 226 gear atm. Every alt is 226.
    Please, provide us you sources. "large portion" seem like a pretty bad lie to me
    Takes roughly 4-6 weeks to get a new character from fresh ding to ilvl 220 (unless you are really unlucky with vault ofc)

    and the patch has currently been going on for 7 months.

    So plenty of time to get several alts to 220.

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  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    At Nathria, Normal/Heroic Raid loot is between 200-220.
    Tazavesh loot is at 226.
    Casual players, the majority, are usually around Normal/Heroic raid loot.
    No.

    For how long this season went, most players don't have to set foot in Mythic to be 226. Just throwing the vault at you for so long would make anyone who plays regularly 226. Heck, I joined super late and I'm 224 and "only" 6/10 Mythic, with hardly any gear from the actual raid.

    The real Mythic raiders are above 226 because of Stone and Sire loot pushing them beyond it.

    226 by this point is in fact quite casual ilevel. Below that and you don't even play the game really, or you just joined.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Nalam the Venom View Post
    Takes roughly 4-6 weeks to get a new character from fresh ding to ilvl 220 (unless you are really unlucky with vault ofc)

    and the patch has currently been going on for 7 months.

    So plenty of time to get several alts to 220.
    It actually is a lot shorter depending on how much your class benefits from the derpy power systems. A hunter for example if they have a group that ignore their ilv can punch above their weight enough to easily knock out 15s at roughly 190-200 ilv.

  16. #116
    I havent checked the loot from the new dungeon but i guess there would be some OP trinkets in there! that is what almost always happens with new patches and dungeons,as for the ilvl i dont think people with high ilvl will care too much these dungeons are for alt "fast" gearing,people who already have 226ilvl equipped with run the new raid not the new dungeon :P

  17. #117
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsarez View Post
    No.

    For how long this season went, most players don't have to set foot in Mythic to be 226. Just throwing the vault at you for so long would make anyone who plays regularly 226. Heck, I joined super late and I'm 224 and "only" 6/10 Mythic, with hardly any gear from the actual raid.

    The real Mythic raiders are above 226 because of Stone and Sire loot pushing them beyond it.

    226 by this point is in fact quite casual ilevel. Below that and you don't even play the game really, or you just joined.
    i dont think you know how the vault works if you think normal/heroic raiders are getting 226 from the vault.

  18. #118
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    It will be fine for me and my entire ~25 man raid group.
    We cap at heroic raid, all have AOTC, and range from 214-220 ilevel.
    I still have quite a few 213s because I don't care to run M+ anymore in hopes of getting the "correct" slot in my weekly.
    This new dungeon gives me and people in my boat (as well as the casuals who are not raiding heroic/running M+10 and up) something else to do.
    Very welcomed addition because, today, there ain't shit worth doing but raidlogging.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    i dont think you know how the vault works if you think normal/heroic raiders are getting 226 from the vault.
    A piss easy +14 is 226 in the vault.

    Who on EARTH is so bad or low on time that the best they can do is normal cn or below +10, 6+ MONTHS into a season? If they exist, they can't be considered a relevant audience for game design decisions.

    Not to forget how easy and cheap a carry is.

    Sorry but every bad gamer dad I've encountered is 226 by now. Their alts on 220+.

    And here is my take on it: retails problem is the inflation of ilvl after each season. I don't have a problem with the fact that Taz drops 226. I have a problem with the fact that content after that increases the ilvl by so much, that it makes Taz irrelevant from the start. Just like Taz makes mythic cn irrelevant.

    We're not building up content after each patch, we're throwing away older content as if a completely new expansion hit us. 9.1 will have the same problem again because going through CN is entirely without purpose, and blizzard needs to spend a metric ton of time to come up with enough ideas to fill this void.

    Stop inflating ilvl, stop slot machining items at us, stop making previous content pointless and you'll be able to release smaller content patches in shorter periods of time. Thus building up a content portfolio that isn't just one fucking raid at a time.

  20. #120
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsarez View Post
    A piss easy +14 is 226 in the vault.

    Who on EARTH is so bad or low on time that the best they can do is normal cn or below +10, 6+ MONTHS into a season? If they exist, they can't be considered a relevant audience for game design decisions.

    Not to forget how easy and cheap a carry is.

    Sorry but every bad gamer dad I've encountered is 226 by now. Their alts on 220+.

    And here is my take on it: retails problem is the inflation of ilvl after each season. I don't have a problem with the fact that Taz drops 226. I have a problem with the fact that content after that increases the ilvl by so much, that it makes Taz irrelevant from the start. Just like Taz makes mythic cn irrelevant.

    We're not building up content after each patch, we're throwing away older content as if a completely new expansion hit us. 9.1 will have the same problem again because going through CN is entirely without purpose, and blizzard needs to spend a metric ton of time to come up with enough ideas to fill this void.

    Stop inflating ilvl, stop slot machining items at us, stop making previous content pointless and you'll be able to release smaller content patches in shorter periods of time. Thus building up a content portfolio that isn't just one fucking raid at a time.
    i mean its not like we have concrete numbers on this to counter your absolute bullshit made up evidance.
    oh wait we do.
    ever heard of R.IO and warcraft logs?

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