New item level cap in Tazavesh makes it dead on arrival for many mains

[Malania]

Once again, over 200k players in a game that just went through a massive content draught for months is hardly "nothing"

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Then what do you need to justify a new dungeon? Because that's basically the only reason I can think of

That it's new? It's something new to do as we've been doing the current content for a while...

Why do you play this game? Are you missing something in life that purple pixels make up for? You do pay this game for fun I assume?

[Tubben]

~1.5% of players cleared CN on mythic (https://www.dataforazeroth.com/colle...ire-denathrius)
~25% of players cleared CN on heroic (https://www.dataforazeroth.com/colle...ire-denathrius)
~17.5% of players got KSM Season 1 (https://www.dataforazeroth.com/colle...ter-season-one)

Keep in mind most players got more than one lv 60 char.

I think it's pretty save to assume that less than 10% of chars are 225+ geared.

[Tziva]

~1.5% of players cleared CN on mythic (https://www.dataforazeroth.com/colle...ire-denathrius)
~25% of players cleared CN on heroic (https://www.dataforazeroth.com/colle...ire-denathrius)
~17.5% of players got KSM Season 1 (https://www.dataforazeroth.com/colle...ter-season-one)

Keep in mind most players got more than one lv 60 char.

I think it's pretty save to assume that less than 10% of chars are 225+ geared.

I agree the idea that this will only be a concern for a very very small amount of players but honestly, it doesn't even matter. Even if 100% of the population was at 226:

• If you're ilvl 226, that means that offsetting your 235 legendary is likely a piece or two that is under 226. But even if you have a 226 in every slot, the odds are still pretty good there will be something there that is an upgrade even at 226 just due to better itemisation or better trinkets.
• Hardmode has 233 which is an upgrade even for mythic raiders.
• People do content for reasons other than just gearing their main: for fun, for the experience, on alts, learning for when it goes to m+, etc. This is a game. A large volume of it exists just for the sake of fun.

All this semantics and numbers debate about what percentage of people are at what ilvl is just a red herring. The content will be there, offering novelty and new stuff to do, gearing will be somewhat relevant to mains regardless and very relevant to alts, but there's also ample reasons outside of just "gearing your main" to do things in WoW.

This whole thread concept is just silly no matter what the maths are.

[ohwell]

Because they are seriously spoiled at this point. Some of them honestly think that the entire game should revolve and be designed just for them, and $&#@ the rest of the playerbase.

Btw, the vault of OPness isn't helping either tbh.

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Catering to casuals is one of the main reasons that allowed WoW to take off as strongly as it did, especially during Vanilla/BC. I still remember many butthurt EQ players calling WoW "MMO for dummies", "World of Grandmacraft", or other supposedly witty phrases in the same vein. Coincidentally or not, the times when the game attempted to go into full Git Gud™ mode was when it started to massively hemorrhage players - the same players that fund the hardcore crowd's fancy toys.

If you want a full hardcore-oriented MMO, you can always go play Wildst... Nvm, I forgot that it tanked harder than a bag full of bricks

The only spoiled people are the badsuals(they aren't casual in any definition of the word so stop calling them casuals). Also, the non raiders non pvpers bring in less money to the game these days buddy so yes they can and should start catering to m+ players, raiders and pvpers. Subs aren't what brings in money now and hell most hardcore players have multiple accounts anyway. Advertising, streaming, and esports are the revenue makers and none of those are being provided by "casuals".

[Tubben]

The only spoiled people are the badsuals(they aren't casual in any definition of the word so stop calling them casuals). Also, the non raiders non pvpers bring in less money to the game these days buddy so yes they can and should start catering to m+ players, raiders and pvpers. Subs aren't what brings in money now and hell most hardcore players have multiple accounts anyway. Advertising, streaming, and esports are the revenue makers and none of those are being provided by "casuals".

I guess Blizzard/Activision knows better than you, what brings the money. They would not cater to to casuals, if m+/raider/pvp would bring in more money. And given how many chars have certain achivements, which you actually can track, i would say the casual base is larger than the raider/m+/pvp base. But thats only my opinion, of course.

[Accendor]

Once again, WoW supposedly has millions of players. Is it really that hard to understand that not everything is for mythic raiders?

How many millions do you think retail wow has right now? We have no official numbers if course, but being completely realistic here, if you complete activity all across the board (ingame, forums, social media), do you really thing it has more than 2, maybe 3 million players?
Again, i am not saying WoW is dying, fluctuating subscriber numbers are normal, but as of right now, the world is very, very empty.

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That it's new? It's something new to do as we've been doing the current content for a while...

Why do you play this game? Are you missing something in life that purple pixels make up for? You do pay this game for fun I assume?

Hey, if you think the "no rewards is completely fine" system works, you either missed WoD and the last 9 months or there is no real sense in arguing with you, as you are simply the exception that is the delusional to the fact that the majority of players left for this reason.

[Wangming]

How many millions do you think retail wow has right now? We have no official numbers if course, but being completely realistic here, if you complete activity all across the board (ingame, forums, social media), do you really thing it has more than 2, maybe 3 million players?
Again, i am not saying WoW is dying, fluctuating subscriber numbers are normal, but as of right now, the world is very, very empty.

On one hand it is true, on the other it has little to do with the discussion itself. Point is, Mythic raiders are just a fraction of the playersbase so it makes sense to not make everything for them. In fact I think 9.1 doesn't have enough casual content.

[Uko]

Seems kinda silly to me considering current M0 items can be upgraded so not sure why they decided to not let them be upgradeable with valor.

[thunderdragon2]

Seems kinda silly to me considering current M0 items can be upgraded so not sure why they decided to not let them be upgradeable with valor.

probably because the new dungeon starts a 226 and m0 starts at 210?

[slime]

The only spoiled people are the badsuals(they aren't casual in any definition of the word so stop calling them casuals). Also, the non raiders non pvpers bring in less money to the game these days buddy so yes they can and should start catering to m+ players, raiders and pvpers. Subs aren't what brings in money now and hell most hardcore players have multiple accounts anyway. Advertising, streaming, and esports are the revenue makers and none of those are being provided by "casuals".

So wrong it's painful.

[Fenrys]

Just another point to throw into the pit: doing the Hard Mode quest for Taz rewards a neck item which is BiS for pretty much everyone irrespective of ilvl due to an overstatted proc.

[kodemonkee]

We already are in the longest content draught for a first patch ever and it will still take a while for 9.1 to arrive. When it finally arrives, one of the big features will be completely meaningless for many main characters, because it offers no upgrades for them.
Why exclude a large portion of the playerbase from this content? It's not like the alternatives are abundant.

Thank god I unsubscribed, first time since Cata. Pretty sad to see this.

[TheFirstOnes]

Oh no...

226 gear, and Hard Mode has 233 Gear. That's...NORMAL SANCTUM GEAR! OH NOOOOO!!!

lol stop. Casuals now have multiple options of catching up. I agree that this gear should still be upgradable, but to say it's dead on arrival is dumb.

[Temp name]

Seems kinda silly to me considering current M0 items can be upgraded so not sure why they decided to not let them be upgradeable with valor.

So no one feels pressured to spend thousands upon thousands of valor on an m0 item

[Malania]

How many millions do you think retail wow has right now? We have no official numbers if course, but being completely realistic here, if you complete activity all across the board (ingame, forums, social media), do you really thing it has more than 2, maybe 3 million players?
Again, i am not saying WoW is dying, fluctuating subscriber numbers are normal, but as of right now, the world is very, very empty.

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Hey, if you think the "no rewards is completely fine" system works, you either missed WoD and the last 9 months or there is no real sense in arguing with you, as you are simply the exception that is the delusional to the fact that the majority of players left for this reason.

Sounds like a you problem then fella. The rest of us are fine with something new to do.

[FlubberPuddy]

Many alts maybe. But anyone's main char who played since start had plenty of opportunities to vault up.
Idk, from what I can see and tell, the people who are only 200-220 are in the minority right now. That's literally your covenant gear mixed with a few normal CN items. You're trying to tell me that's the majority of players 8 months into the addon?

Your mistake is thinking the vast majority of WoW's playerbase play consistently from release till now. Didn't you see the news a few months ago where they lost half (or more than half idr) of their subscriber base (Like always after expansion launches)?

I just came back to the game a couple weeks ago and did a couple m+ (8 and a 9) yesterday. If someone looks at my r.io it'll say 200, my ilvl is 196. If someone looked at me and went, "wow this dude is only 196 after 8 months of playing?" that'd be a pretty bad take.

Usually it's either someone coming back or a fresh alt whenever someone is low geared.

[Lochton]

We already are in the longest content draught for a first patch ever and it will still take a while for 9.1 to arrive. When it finally arrives, one of the big features will be completely meaningless for many main characters, because it offers no upgrades for them.
Why exclude a large portion of the playerbase from this content? It's not like the alternatives are abundant.

I do not believe they are excluding a large platform from it.

I know this is an old topic, but weren't HM Taz data-mined to be more than 226 item level?

[neescher]

Hard mode is ilvl 233, so this whole topic is moot. It might not be huge upgrades, but definitely ilvl upgrades for everyon, at least in the first week.

[regardoz]

I doubt many would say that Shadowlands is worse than BfA but I feel like this is by far the most confusing and senselessly designed expansion yet. There's been so much potentially enjoyable content this expansion completely killed by either a lack of a reward or a really bad reward system.

I've given up trying to figure out their thought process because I'm convinced it doesn't actually exist at this point.

The amount of senseless grinding made me stop playing as pvper, 3 characters and each i have to do renown each one need multiple legendaries and each legendaries require many ranks and pvp item need ranks and arena need to be ranked. When am i going to have the time to do so

[neescher]

The amount of senseless grinding made me stop playing as pvper, 3 characters and each i have to do renown each one need multiple legendaries and each legendaries require many ranks and pvp item need ranks and arena need to be ranked. When am i going to have the time to do so

Most alt-friendly expansion