How easy is Kara and Gruuls?

[Argorwal]

10- Blackhand 325:
9- Jaina 346 : ( Was in one week and with LOTS of mythic+ farming , probably most insane in preparation)
8- Queen Azshara 359:
7- Fallen Avatar 453:
6- WoD Archimonde 472:
5- Yogg-Saron 500+:
4- Firelands Rag 500+:
3- Garrosh 638:
2- Legion Kil'jaeden 654:
1- Uu'nat 731:

And to think #7 and #2 were back to back bosses of the same raid...

I think Exsorus had like 900+ on KJ and Alpha was well over 1000 pulls.

[Rusken]

They're simple and easy raids. My guild went into Kara for the first time last night, we're not min-max hardcore gamers it was just a selection of 70s who managed to get attuned. We cleared up to Prince before the shutdown stopped us and only wiped on Aran a couple times due to trying to burn through his adds without the gear to do so. Once we changed strat and killed the adds he dropped immediately.

I haven't done any 25s yet so I can't speak from experience, but a few guildies have done Mag/Gruul pugs and they've been a mixed pot. Some groups 1-shot it all some others wipe 6 times on High King Maulgar and the group falls apart.

[Tojara]

The tuning just isn't difficult. When TBC came out lots of people didn't know how to play the class they chose, gear the class they chose, and nobody actually knew the encounters. You're returning where the chances of any of those criteria not being met is substantially reduced, all the while people know what classes are strong and tend to flock towards them.

HKM is literally a setup fight and is fairly straight forward. Gruul literally has one mechanic and I would be surprised if the DPS check was relevant to most groups. Karazhan as a whole isn't very difficult, and the only real things that might hang you up are the bosses that have a couple mechanics as opposed to one. Regardless, the tuning really isn't that tough and you can brute force a lot of them.

Magtheridon is probably the only truly 'difficult' encounter and it's still easy, just harder than the rest. The first phase is annoying, but anybody messing up the cubes is basically a wipe, so there's that.

TBC as a whole isn't going to be all that difficult. You'll have numerous encounters strung throughout each tier that are a step above the rest, but it's nothing remotely close to retail level of mythic difficulty. TBC basically has a lot more week one/two heroic bosses in it.

[Usernameforforums]

Kara is more inline with the last two bosses of mc but the majority of mc is snoozefest. In terms of aesthetics and entertainment, kara is a 5/5 handsdown.

That said, the difference between the original launch on a raid and this rerelease is that the strats are already known. You cant really expect 30+ days for content being downed by the best players. If you actually expected that then you need to re-evaluate your expectations.

[ArCaN1St]

Cleared Kara yesterday with a group of friends with mostly boosted characters, so no level 60 epics on anyone. All bosses were killed in 1 or 2 pulls, except Netherspite. Netherspite seemed like another league entirely in terms of difficulty, and required 4 or 5 pulls and actually turning brains on.

[Akka]

These sort of threads really are a retardation check.
Like, people claiming Gruul is as easy as MC so they can humblebrag harder.

I mean, Gruul may not be hard, he may be easy, but saying it's as easy as MC only shows the idiocy and unability to have any sort of non-binary evaluation from a lot of posters.
/facepalm

[ArenaDk]

These sort of threads really are a retardation check.
Like, people claiming Gruul is as easy as MC so they can humblebrag harder.

I mean, Gruul may not be hard, he may be easy, but saying it's as easy as MC only shows the idiocy and unability to have any sort of non-binary evaluation from a lot of posters.
/facepalm

The problem probably is that people are used to much much harder encounter.

If someone comes from Retail than MC is like a 0,2/10 and Gruul a 0,6/10. Is Gruul maybe 3 times harder ? yes , but both are so low in difficulty that it blurrs and not matter.

[deenman]

#1 Ouro - 87 days from the Twin Emperors' death. (1 day from C'thun's death) 26th April 2006.
#2 C'thun - 86 days from the Twin Emperors' death. 25th April 2006.
#3 Yogg-Saron, Alone in the Darkness - 83 days from General Vezax's death. (39 days from STARS' previous Ulduar kill) 7th July 2009
#4 Nefarian* - 75 days from Chromaggus' death. 26th September 2005. (15 minute respawn between attempts)
#5 Ragnaros* - 74 days from Majordomo Executus' death (Limited Attempts). 25th April 2005.
#6 High Astromancer Solarian - 59 days from Magtheridon's death. (24 days from Death Wish's previous tier 5 kill) 24th April 2007
#7 The Four Horsemen - 56 days from Gothik the Harvester's death to D&T's kill. August 25th 2006
#8 Lady Vashj* <Coilfang Matron> - 54 days from being unlocked. 5th May 2007 (17 days for Nihilum's bugged kill)
#9 Al'ar <Phoenix God> - 48 days from Magtheridon's death. 13th April 2007
#10 Heroic The Lich King* - 42 Days from Heroic Putricide's death (first pull). March 26th 2010 (Limited Attempts)

ouro completly bugged and literaly imposible until fixed

cthun pretty damn bugged,but....with todays players....MAYBE doable

yogg pretty overtuned number wise,but for the time yeah,pretty hard considering the care bare snooze fest wotlk raiding was until that point

solarian again bugged and if i recal imposible until fixed

vashj bugged if i recall also

al'ar i actualy dont remember exactly what was the issue

hc lk,wasnt the last wing opened later?>plus limited atempts,plus lk was indeed a huge step up from 99% of wotlk snoze fest raiding content

nefarian/ragnaros/four horsemen-the literal top world players,backpaddled,keyboardturned and clicked most of their spels,plus the game had major fps and connection issues etc etc,EU didnt even have acces to the game for months

***also another HUGE point,was WIPE RECOVERY*** people completly seem to underestimate the power of this,THIS is why TIME is NOT a good factor to determine difficulty,wipe counts is

even heroic bosses today are infinitly more complex and challenging than ''most'' pre cataclysm bosses

[Dzonathan]

I remember pugging and completing both in 2.1 as a Immolate casting Affi lock who used no macros and clicked spells.

You're going to have to give me some very compelling arguments to put any of those raids above 0.

[deenman]

Not true. Heroic LK was not even killed until the buff went higher. It is literally a 5/5 difficulty boss.

for wrath standard lk was indeed pretty good,but its difficulty was greatly influenced by number and the sheer dps you needed to make it,kinda like spine of dw,if that boss couldnt have been cheesed by mages and rogues with legenderies,it would have lived way longer also,was it a ''difficult'' boss?only if u think that difficulty is about the numbers alone,a really hard boss is something like helya or kj,it was all about execution

- - - Updated - - -

And to think #7 and #2 were back to back bosses of the same raid...

I think Exsorus had like 900+ on KJ and Alpha was well over 1000 pulls.

blizz REALLY wanted to make sure they dont underestimate players like they did in emerald,that was like the first raid since wrath that whent down in the release day if im not mistaken,its rly sad cuz the bosses were designed pretty well,but the insane power players had simply destroyed it,even our mediocre guild managed to get a world first speed kill on the spider at the time of killing it simply because we were lucky with legenderies and some people farmed ap like crazy,i think the last phase was almost complettly ignored,even cenarius died like a ragdoll,but on our alts that boss was like 10 times harder with no more crazy ap and legenderies

[Uselessrouge]

we stomped kara in about 3hours all bosses first try with full t3 and fresh 70s and one heal who had to spec "dps" causse 4 healers is too much ^^

way easier then i remembered

[Akka]

The problem probably is that people are used to much much harder encounter.

If someone comes from Retail than MC is like a 0,2/10 and Gruul a 0,6/10. Is Gruul maybe 3 times harder ? yes , but both are so low in difficulty that it blurrs and not matter.

Between that or just wanting to make a dick contest on the Internet, I doubt there is much doubt over which one it is.
Especially considering retail has LFR and "normal/heroic" 5-man, which are even easier than all that and are what the majority of retail players actually play.
I also don't think we saw to 50 guild wiping on normal mode raid a lot either.

So yeah I call bullshit and humblebragging to the hilt.

[Keashaa]

even heroic bosses today are infinitly more complex and challenging than ''most'' pre cataclysm bosses

Not to forget that most programs today are infinitly more complex than most programs in 1990.
If you want to compare, you must compare everything, so please don't forget current days gaming hardware, player knowledge and so on.

Of course bosses today are more complex because gamers today are better, have more knowledge and have far better hardware.
Using a pc from 2005 you won't stand a chance to many modern bosses because you are dead before you see what's happening.

[Puri]

Kara is really easy. I mean really. The challenging in Kara is single pulling trash mobs (because they are the real boss in there).

Gruul is harder, but I was actually surprised how easy he was. I remembered him and the council eating tanks for breakfast, but it was not really challenging.

Magtheridon is definitely a challenge if you are undergeared (especially considering stamina using T3) right now, there is massive raid damage as well as tanks getting globalled.

[Heathy]

I dunno if it helps but I noticed that the trash on the way to the opera, FAPs work on the ice tomb thing but they still reset aggro. in general if you're tanking you want to have like 10 faps on you at all times. they are the Iwin button of potions and help in so many places. a lot of pulls that are hard can be trivialised with a good fap. :3

[Facefive]

hard can be trivialised with a good fap. :3

Just quoting something completely out of context.
Don't mind me. Scroll on.

[Nitros14]

solarian again bugged and if i recal imposible until fixed

Solarian wasn't bugged, they did cut her HP from 5.4 million to 3.4 million before she was killed though.

Kael'thas was bugged building threat on all the healers for three phases then running around one shotting them all.

Vashj was just overtuned and had a mass mind control they got rid of. She was 'killed' when the encounter bugged out (origin of the 500k revenge crit meme) but that wasn't making it harder.

Al'ar's meteor was bugged for a long while.


Most people probably did the dumb ass Baron Geddon version of High Astromancer Solarian. Some others probably did the version where arcane resistance was unusually effective against her spells so people used the two 'wrath soaker' strategy. Not many people likely saw the actually pretty difficult original version.

Which one will we get in TBC classic? Who knows.

[Demithio]

I guess this is why you can never actually relive the TBC experience. If everything can be face rolled, its pretty much pointless. Karazhan and Gruul's actually broke guilds back in the day. It was part of the experience.

[Nnyco]

Cleared Kara yesterday with a group of friends with mostly boosted characters, so no level 60 epics on anyone. All bosses were killed in 1 or 2 pulls, except Netherspite. Netherspite seemed like another league entirely in terms of difficulty, and required 4 or 5 pulls and actually turning brains on.

The peak difficulty of classic servers: turning brains on.

[Ilookfly]

Pugged both week 1. So not hard