Is levelling in MMO's a tired old system than needs to go?

[Andonais]

It's old and tired because WoW is old and tired what applies to WoW does not apply to the genre.

[Coldkil]

I actually like leveling in WoW - as a system - and i want to see it expanded through next expansions and so on.

Basically, you have a small common intro for learning the basics. Then all legacy content (old expansions and such) are part of a common leveling system where you can choose your adventure and they'll bring you through the middle part, where you learn your class tooltkit and doesn't take much time. Then there is current expansion - the last X levels are the mean to tell the story/make your character learn the new expansion systems and at max level endgame start. Once new expansion hits, current becomes legacy, everyone is shrunk back to level current-something and the story goes on.

Leveling is a good method to make players go through simpler tasks that give you the overall basics of your character and base systems. The "real game" starts after leveling. I'm not a fan of infinite leveling because it devalues the whole journey and tends to become a mindless grinding that's either useless or way too important over the long run.

[Ashleyxoxo]

There are people who buy the game for the leveling and story that comes with it... just as if it were a singleplayer game.

The real problem is people who justify leveling as a "tutorial"... no tutorial is weeks long, not even hours long.

[Greyvax]

MMO's established this "endgame loop" of dailies, weeklies, dungeons and raiding which starts only when you hit max level.

Everything prior to this becomes 100% obsolete.

[neik]

Removing fantasy from a fantasy game? Sure, what could go wrong.

[Nihilist74]

I have really enjoyed the leveling experience in shadowlands. I have really enjoyed being able to choose which expansions to level in. There are some things I would add to it. I would put in a queue that allowed you to queue for every dungeon from every expansion. I would allow players to choose what expansions they want to quest in and which ones they want to dungeon in separately.

[Delever]

I actually think leveling needs to take waaaaaay longer as it was an integral part of the genre and late game needs to be structured around things that you did in your leveling anyway but cooler.
The only thing that needs to go from MMOs is the zoomer gogogogogogogogo attitude that is ruining this genre even if it means that the genre becomes a niche again for a smaller audience.

[VinceVega]

No. Leveling is a pillar of MMORPGs.

Retail wow sadly made into a farce. The reason people like it is because you get constantly a little bit stronger over a long period of time.

Now you just rush through completly trivial content without ANY challenge whatsoever for even the biggest noob ever created.
I just leveled TBC. And i leveled SL a few times.
There are WORLDS of difference in engagement. I talk to people. There are hard walls i cannot get voer without finding others to help me. I actually have to talk to people and not just click a button to be auto invited into a group who is doing that rare/elite just leave again without ever talking or seeing the player again. I can enter everything the moment i see it. There are no keys or anything in that regard.

TBC world with SL voiceacting and graphics would be my dream. Hell i LOVE attunments. They are so fun. There are a bunch more dungeons than than retail has. And despite them sharing assets they are way more interesting to run than any of the SL ones... partly because you know you have to run them to DEATH for the entirety of the expansion. 8 dungeons. 2 Years at least. Horrible. YOu would think with them making the dungeons last longer they would bring more... but they don't. Just one tube after another in another color scheme you mass pull through and never talk to anyone.

There is nothing in leveling retail right now you need or get. So yeah. They could just get rid of it entirely and only make progression horizontal. Not in classic though.
But if you get rid of it it isn't a MMORPG anymore imho. Just another loot grinder. They can add lootboxes then to for all i care.

[Poppincaps]

This is clearly from the POV of someone who is experienced with MMOs. I've been getting my girlfriend into FFXIV and the leveling experience is absolutely essential for her. The slow drip feed of abilities allows her to get comfortable with an ability before she has to learn what the next one does and with leveling you usually have a steady increase in difficulty and complexity which gives her time to get acclimated without becoming overwhelmed.

It also gives the developers confidence that their players will have at least a degree of familiarity with the game and its systems when designing encounters. Also increasing in levels gives the player feedback that they are making progress.

[Dezerte]

I think levelling is fine as long as it works as a way of increasing power, and not as a way of gating types of content behind a grind.

[oplawlz]

Levelling new characters is possibly the only part of mmos that needs to stay.

- - - Updated - - -

I actually think leveling needs to take waaaaaay longer as it was an integram part of the genre and late game needs to be structure around things that you did in your leveling anyway but cooler.
The only thing that needs to go from MMOs is the zoomer gogogogogogogogo attitude that is ruining this genre even if it means that the genre becomes a niche again for a smaller audience.

Strongly agree.

[Itori]

I don’t mind leveling, i just hate alts, leveling is fine and enjoyable but i think a main hero with the ability to class swap easily is the future.

[Sciborg]

My favourite MMO was Guild Wars and all I did all day every day for years when I started playing in Factions, was PvP on PvP-only characters, but in WoW I've levelled almost every class to max once per faction, some more than that. So for me it doesn't really matter, if levelling is good I enjoy it but if I can just make a PvP character like in Guild Wars then I don't care about levelling unless I want to do PvE, but I haven't raided since TBC.

[aarro]

Do you love seeing arbitrary numbers going up, or do you like questing content? Because I love (good) questing content and do it without any motivation to see numbers go up, but I hate levelling.

I love everything about levelling for the first time in new zones. Exploring the cool things in the new zones, seeing numbers getting better, getting new gear upgrades and some quests can be really fun too but to do it over and over on different alts loses all that very fast.

[Lex Icon]

the whole leveling thing seems a bit off.
i mean you got the exploration,character growth and all that stuff tied to it but nowadays the focus is on what comes after that.
and imo they shouldn't be separated.

let players fight other players the second they set foot in this new environment if they want. same thing with pve stuff.
or you know let them enjoy this new world and all it has to offer without the pressure of endgame hanging over them.

[PACOX]

Are any of those RPGs? Cause I know the "WoW isn't even an RPG anymore cause they've removed so many RPG features!" Sounds to me like you're describing MOBAs and other arena type games.

ESO and both GW games come to mind.

[StrawberryZebra]

I think there's still a space for leveling in MMO's.

On a purely mechanical level, it functions as a class tutorial by slowly introducing gameplay elements and systems in a way where new players aren't going to be frontloaded with information and can slowly familiarise themselves with the game and the systems at a managable pace. Done well, you can introduce mechanics and abilities and have the leveling experience give players the chance to get comfortable with the ideas before asking them to incorporate new ones.

The end product should be max level players who are comfortable and competant at playing their chosen class.

Consider the fighting game genre as an example of the opposite end of the spectrum. There, you're given all the tools right from the off and it can often be overwhelming for new players to get into as a result. Its why defaulting to button bashing and hoping for the best is the go-to stratergy for new players to the genre. If they'd take a leaf out of the MMO book, they could start off the player with basic punches and kicks, move on to special moves, combos etc and slowly graduate them all the way to competant players.

The concept is completely fine, but it's got to be delivered with purpose and intentionality. Just tacking on a leveling system to give players a treadmil to run is a serious under-use of what could otherwise be a great way to teach complex game mechanics at a pace comfortable to the players.

[teglin]

i like leveling but I don't see an alternative to it. a character's level reflects their experience with the game's systems, immersion in the game's lore, and familiarity with class mechanics. the idea is that by the time a player hits a max level, they have learned about all these things sufficiently to do more advanced content.

[draykorinee]

I now hate it, done it too often now. I tried to do a classic server and was out of that after an hour of plodding.

[Yriel]

All Correct. Besides imo MMO games should focus on player interactivity in its core, instead first thing hearing "MMO" that comes to my mind when i hear it is "massive boring grindfest till the endgame, straight up unfair pvp battles and repetitive content".

Thats funny because when i hear "MMO" (and especially WoW) i think "massive boring repetetive grindfest in the endgame". Yay lets do the same dungeon twice every week for a year straight. So much fun, so much variety.
WoW is fun until you reach the endgame, then it becomes a lazy, boring grindfest.