How does Retail fix the social issue?

[Kumorii]

It is the game that make people behave in some ways or others. It s simply not true to assume the game doesn t have any impact on player behaviour.

It does, I just don't think it has changed in that regard, which I explained why in the rest of my post. Hence I don't see it as a game issue unless we go into territory that the game always had these issues back in vanilla.

[Stanelis1]

It does, I just don't think it has changed in that regard, which I explained why in the rest of my post. Hence I don't see it as a game issue unless we go into territory that the game always had these issues back in vanilla.

I don t think it is true as there are system in modern wow that weren t in pre 3.0 wow :

- limited spread of item level as compared to what we have in retail (only one dungeon and raid difficulty),
- no timers on dungeons,
- no expectations from player to keep farming all content every weeks and to do a large amount of dungeons each lockouts,
- a raid structure in classic and tbc that somehow forces socialization via guilds.

And it is only a small subset of what impacts social dynamics. People are always in a rush in shadowland.

[Kehego]

i remember reading that they outright threatened to do so, something about "they will monitor classic and if it is warranted, they will turn layering back on if there are too many people doing something somewhere". Eff that.

yes I'm sure you want to wait 20 minutes to kill a quest mob. Gives you all the time to socialize, I guess.

[VinceVega]

Retail wow gives me no reason to talk to people. I can join a group for everything without saying one word in chat and most of the time this is the way it goes. You join a group, noone says anything. You finish for whatever you grouped and everyone leaves.

People saying wow is not a social game should get their head checked. If MMORPGs are ment to be played in SP than there is no reason to make it a fucking multiplayer in the first place.

I played one week of TBC and i talked to more people than i did since the release of legion in retail... it is a world of difference and so much more fun sadly.

Take away 80% of all those stupid features that make the game trivial and MAYBE retail will get a bit fun again. Start with cross server stuff. (ok in PvP) Then with automatic dungeon ports. and so on. Maybe those selfproclaimed introverts who are popping up everywhere get their heads out of their arse and realize they have no "sickness" and are just freaking unsure about themselves and rather than facing that talk themselves into believing they have a actuall problem and just "can't talk to people"

Retail wow has no reason right now for open world. Or anything really. It is either really hard so you NEED a group and discord or so easy you can automatically group up with people you can pretend to be NPCs.

Blizz should let you play offline on your own PC wiht no abilitie to connect it to other player. Then people have their Singleplayer dream and stop making retail worse because of it.

[kamuimac]

This is absolutely correct and Blizzard continues to double down on lfd/lfr/cross realm phasing, thinking they will eventually make it work. Personal loot and easier reporting of players have been there solutions but these have just made the game even more of a social desert.

TBC may show Blizzard that something is wrong with retail but there solution will probably be to bring back Illidan again...

what is it supposed to show though ? that majority of people hate manual group making ? and only reason they do it because game forces them to ?

look at low level dungeons both in classic and tbc - nobody does them besides booost sellers

so only logical solution would be to implement char boosts for all classic expansions so chineseee gold farmers stop making and selling gold.

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Retail wow gives me no reason to talk to people. I can join a group for everything without saying one word in chat and most of the time this is the way it goes. You join a group, noone says anything. You finish for whatever you grouped and everyone leaves.

People saying wow is not a social game should get their head checked. If MMORPGs are ment to be played in SP than there is no reason to make it a fucking multiplayer in the first place.

I played one week of TBC and i talked to more people than i did since the release of legion in retail... it is a world of difference and so much more fun sadly.

Take away 80% of all those stupid features that make the game trivial and MAYBE retail will get a bit fun again. Start with cross server stuff. (ok in PvP) Then with automatic dungeon ports. and so on. Maybe those selfproclaimed introverts who are popping up everywhere get their heads out of their arse and realize they have no "sickness" and are just freaking unsure about themselves and rather than facing that talk themselves into believing they have a actuall problem and just "can't talk to people"

Retail wow has no reason right now for open world. Or anything really. It is either really hard so you NEED a group and discord or so easy you can automatically group up with people you can pretend to be NPCs.

Blizz should let you play offline on your own PC wiht no abilitie to connect it to other player. Then people have their Singleplayer dream and stop making retail worse because of it.

there are plenty of reasons. just because you play mmorpg it doesnt mean you have to be social with other people

for a lot of people more then neough is

a)seeing others in the world runings around them
b)having AH to buy/sell
c)doing normal/hc dungeons with 4 other people who behave like npc - idealy they would be replaced by npcs - hint - other mmorpgs already offer this option because they realised some people prefer npcs because they are not toxic like actual players.

it may shock you but normal people look for human interactions / friends irl not in computer games.

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i remember reading that they outright threatened to do so, something about "they will monitor classic and if it is warranted, they will turn layering back on if there are too many people doing something somewhere". Eff that.

that would be amazing - as even in tbc at this very moment you have places with idiotic high respawn ratio of mobs - complety out of touch with how your char can handle due to to many people in 1 place and majority is just no mans land with nobody to be seen .

layers there ? yes pls .

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A ton of the communication in Classic happens because of the downtime. When people sit down to drink after every second fight, then you start talking to not feel bored. Barrens chat didn't just happen because most of the leveling horde players were concentrated there. It happened because you have long running distances and nothing to do while you're auto running. So you chat.

Retail is fast-paced. Dungeons are pull after pull after pull. Quests aren't designed for you to travel across half the world to do something anymore. That casual interaction between players rarely happens anymore because there is no time for it. Can't be chatting if you are constantly in combat.

yup retail is fun paced

classic is boring paced .

[VinceVega]

what is it supposed to show though ? that majority of people hate manual group making ? and only reason they do it because game forces them to ?

look at low level dungeons both in classic and tbc - nobody does them besides booost sellers

so only logical solution would be to implement char boosts for all classic expansions so chineseee gold farmers stop making and selling gold.

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there are plenty of reasons. just because you play mmorpg it doesnt mean you have to be social with other people

for a lot of people more then neough is

a)seeing others in the world runings around them
b)having AH to buy/sell
c)doing normal/hc dungeons with 4 other people who behave like npc - idealy they would be replaced by npcs - hint - other mmorpgs already offer this option because they realised some people prefer npcs because they are not toxic like actual players.

it may shock you but normal people look for human interactions / friends irl not in computer games.

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that would be amazing - as even in tbc at this very moment you have places with idiotic high respawn ratio of mobs - complety out of touch with how your char can handle due to to many people in 1 place and majority is just no mans land with nobody to be seen .

layers there ? yes pls .

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yup retail is fun paced

classic is boring paced .

Like i said. Give those players a offline world they can jump around in. Add some scripted randomly generated NPCs who run around and they have have their fancy safeplace where nothing toxic can reach them.

There are TONS if singleplayer games with companions who fullfill this. But no you have to demand the few last remaining good MMOs to change.

AH you can play allready without talking to anyone.

You don't have to make friends in wow. I never met anyone in RL i met online because i have enough friends. But i still play wow to play with others. If i don't want to play with others i don't play a MMO... i will never get this. It does not make sense. Nearly every singleplayer game does everything better if you don't want to play with real people. It is a bit masochistic.

You punish yourself to play a game with other people in it which is a certain way for nearly two decades.... and demand it to be changed. There are litterally hundreds of games you can play that are not build around the multiplayer feature. So play those.

You have your autojoin no talk feature even for raids now. Now they want NPCs to play with. Soon people want full mythic gear playing wow as a singleplayer.

Dungeons and raids and even PVP in a MMO should be restricted to people being able to play with others. This is what keeps the game alive. Take that away and you can kick the MMO part away entirely. No need or reason for it anymore.
Like the people who demand a easy mode for dark souls...

/end rant

And yes these posts trigger me a bit.

[Kumorii]

I don t think it is true as there are system in modern wow that weren t in pre 3.0 wow :

- limited spread of item level as compared to what we have in retail (only one dungeon and raid difficulty),
- no timers on dungeons,
- no expectations from player to keep farming all content every weeks and to do a large amount of dungeons each lockouts,
- a raid structure in classic and tbc that somehow forces socialization via guilds.

And it is only a small subset of what impacts social dynamics. People are always in a rush in shadowland.

Not sure what ilvl spread has to do with socialization. People indulge in content they want and indulge in any grouping necessary for those.

timers or no timers doesn't impact much, or at all imo. Now you talk about routes and plans for the dungeon, back in vanilla you talked about which boss you go to next or which of the bosses you were doing and which you would skip. I see no difference here from my experience. If I want to talk or tell jokes I can do it in both.

not sure what this have to do with socialization. If something it pushes players into more grouped content which should encourage more of it.

Care to explain this? Because you have that now as well... both heroic and Mythic is easier and encourages joining a guild to do them more consistently and easier. And same as back then, when players have progressed through the content so it'll become easier more and more players will be able to pug it. In fact, I remember pugging Molten Core was really easy to do especially since multiple players could just go AFK without causing much difficulties. Then we have the fact that pugging is also socialization... it's how you meet new people. At least it is for me.

People being in a rush is a player problem and it shows they don't want to socialize. And hell, I have no problem doing both... we have whispers and general chat. No one has to stop doing whatever they are doing to talk to each other.

[teglin]

i can see your point but I disagree. the social aspect of playing is there -- join a guild and form groups with your peers, it's not too difficult. there is a WoW LFG discord server, forums, and of course asking your friends that play.

[Blackmist]

Honestly can't remember the last time I even interacted with another player out in the wild other than to report swarms of druids for botting.

Even in the Elite world quests you rarely do much more than listing a group and clicking buttons. "hi" and "thx bye" are about the limits.

[Edward Wu]

The devs literally do not give a single shit about making modern WoW have a real community again.

Most people here don't even understand what the word community even means and simply assume its an active fanbase.

[Nnyco]

??

What about the interviews where devs acknowledged older versions of the game had a much stronger community and social aspect to it?

Why even lie? Just to be a contrarian or something lol?

Obviously theres more social interaction if youre forced into it, doesnt make it better though.

Its also not a lie, just because youre an anti social bee that needs blizzard to kick your butt into the direction of the nearest human being before you would even remotely consider to interact with em, doesnt make the game not social.

[Stanelis1]

Not sure what ilvl spread has to do with socialization. People indulge in content they want and indulge in any grouping necessary for those.

timers or no timers doesn't impact much, or at all imo. Now you talk about routes and plans for the dungeon, back in vanilla you talked about which boss you go to next or which of the bosses you were doing and which you would skip. I see no difference here from my experience. If I want to talk or tell jokes I can do it in both.

not sure what this have to do with socialization. If something it pushes players into more grouped content which should encourage more of it.

Care to explain this? Because you have that now as well... both heroic and Mythic is easier and encourages joining a guild to do them more consistently and easier. And same as back then, when players have progressed through the content so it'll become easier more and more players will be able to pug it. In fact, I remember pugging Molten Core was really easy to do especially since multiple players could just go AFK without causing much difficulties. Then we have the fact that pugging is also socialization... it's how you meet new people. At least it is for me.

People being in a rush is a player problem and it shows they don't want to socialize. And hell, I have no problem doing both... we have whispers and general chat. No one has to stop doing whatever they are doing to talk to each other.

No you don t socialize nor talk in dungeons that have timers. People insult each others, leave the group and overall see other players as tools to complete their own endgoals. Anyway, you don t have the time to write stuff on timed content.

As for the ilevel spreads, it impacts socialization as people will group up with the players that have the best gear instead of the most skilled player or the most social one.

Also, mythic raiding is fine but it s still only 20 players content and the lilited amount of slots per raid induce the need for serious player to level and gear up several characters to adapt to each boss meta.

So I m sorry but no : how the game is designed impacts social dynamics. One only need to play shadowland and classic to notice how different the communities are...

People being in a rush is a player problem and it shows they don't want to socialize. And hell, I have no problem doing both... we have whispers and general chat. No one has to stop doing whatever they are doing to talk to each other.

No it s a game design issue. Especially in shadowland with how random getting gear from mm+ is. You need to complete as much dungeon as you can to get gear and must complete them as fast as you can. It s not a player issue, it s due to how the game is designed.
Back in tbc where there was a daily lockout on heroic, nobody was happy to spend hours in a dungeon but at least you ween t punished for it

[Doffen]

People are discussing tactics in Slave Pens?

[Wolfrick]

So I have spent the last week in TBC Classic and it's so evident that game is much much more social than Retail. People "have to" do dungeons while leveling for reputation, looking for groups in chat. People "have to" group up to do 4-5 group quests in every single leveling zone. People group up for certain quests naturally. People "have to" find a guild so they can start raiding Kara.

In the dungeons, people talk and try to explain pull tactics. Just at level 62, in Slave Pens, there is more chatting strategy on how to pull and where to stand, when to put down Tremor Totem, when to AoE, giving healer Mana Pots, asking for Nature Resistance aura from Hunter on final boss and in general asking for water, asking for mana breaks and helping on quest. All this socialization happened in 1 single run of Slave Pens.

The amount of whispers I did in Shadowlands between 50-60 was 0. Yes, 0. I also am pretty sure I joined a group 0 times. The first time I whispered anything was at 60 to join an early mythic.

I remember early at 60 in Shadowlands I did a Mythic +0 dungeon on my Shaman and we wiped on 2nd boss in Spires of Ascension (on my 4th dungeon or something) and the only "socializing" that happened was that the tank left and then everyone left.

What concrete changes would Retail have to do to make people socialize again?

The thing that makes a MMORPG attractive is the social aspect, no?

Well, my dear friend, you Have a very.... VERY.... Good point.


How to Make Retail more Social:


1st

Blizzard should implement the "Server Layer system from classic" and remove the "Server Sharding system"

Why Remove the server Sharding system?
The Sharding system... makes finding groups faster... Yes.... but what is the real point in finding a group... its gathering with people and opening up the Social aspect of World of Warcraft... so if you gather people together who are not on the same server... those people will close to never see each other again... so what is the real point in finding a group then...
(I know that some people just wanna get their Daily chores done... but we have to try to understand that everyone cant be able to do everything... since then everything has to be so much watered down that nothing makes sense)

Why Implement the Layer system?
Well... creating more Layers on the same server... will reduce lag... but also keeping the same people from the same server together... and you are a player are way way way more possible to see those same people again.
(Yes, I know... maybe the queue timers will be longer... how about we Merge more Servers together... this way the Sharding system would make no more sense)


2nd

Create a system that would make it possible to create "character Last names".... then MERGE SERVERS... this way... no one would lose their name and the servers would be way more full with people that could then do stuff together and get to know each other since they will always see each other around in the world.


3rd

Start slowly to reintroduce ideas and concepts from Vanilla... The Burning Crusade and Wrath of the lich King... that Brought people together and made it so that grouping up and or talking to people felt worth it and made it so that those people created new friendships.


4th

Create a System that will Reword good behavior and make it show on our character portrait and then made a similar system for bad Behavior... this will make it possible to identify people who don,t work well in groups and people who are more self centered.
(Yes.... this system can be missused... but so can every system in every game... Just look at the "Newcommer chat" it works great I have helped so many new players in that chat)


5th

Since everyone are on the same server... being Toxic and a bad person... will be almost self policed... since people will start to know the name of those people... and start to isolate them...
(Yes.... people can Change their name... let them... it means that those people give the game we love more money... and if the keep up the bad stuff again and again... they will consequances with the "4th point system I talked about)


In the end
We can all talk and find ways to make World of Warcraft a better and more interesting game for everyone, let me know what you think about these points.

Bless you all and many good things to you ^^

[czarek]

Stop playing alone (pugging) and find communities to play with and retail is as social as any other game

One i can say. Even puggin in calssic is way diffrent than in retail. In retail do one mistake ur hated ppl leaving harassing etc. Players in classic are polite. Cheers.

[Baconeggcheese]

What concrete changes would Retail have to do to make people socialize again?

Absolutely nothing, people socialize as much as they want to.

I've seen this kind of sentiment so many times about so many different aspects of classic. People always reminisce about experiences they have in classic they claim doesn't exist in retail yet somehow I'm having those same experiences in retail.

Its the community, not the game.

There's nothing more social about spamming LFG for 2 hours trying to find a tank than there is sitting in the LFG tool for 2 hours trying to find a tank. There is nothing special about it being in chat.

The runs are only as social as the people in them, this isn't unique to classic. You want a more social run? Be sociable in the run.

You want a guild and community to push more difficult content that requires more coordination? Go join one, they still exist.

[scelero]

Perception. That's all you need to realize.

You can change it back.

[Mr. Smith]

I think that the people arguing that you can go out of your way to join a guild/Discord/whatever to find people to play with are kind of missing the point of what made social interactions in WoW so enjoyable in the first place.

The thing about the social interactions in OG WoW is that they kind of grew, almost like a plant, from natural gameplay. You see someone in the world, and when you interact with them, be they friendly or hostile, that plants the 'seed', so to speak. And from there, more interactions result, and the plant grows.

You see that person in the world again: If you had to work together on a group quest previously or ran a dungeon together or something, you might do so again, which can lead to being friends, which can lead to one of you inviting the other to their guild, which can lead in to raiding. If they were hostile, you might try to fight them again, you might try to run because they're better than you, you might start a personal Kill on Sight blacklist for them and everyone in their guild, which could lead to server rivalries. These kinds of social interactions are what helped sell you on Azeroth being a living, breathing world, and I don't think the game would be looked back on so fondly if not for them.

As opposed to now, where if you're unfortunate enough to not be in a guild already, you just level without saying a single thing to anyone, and once you're done you have to start joining Discords, looking for communities, and handing out applications to guilds and group leaders that you're totally unfamiliar with like you're looking for a job. To me that just feels cold, impersonal and unsatisfying; The difference between growing something yourself versus buying a fully-grown plant from the store.

Both forms of socialization have their pros and cons depending on the game of course, but this a game that at least pretends to be about interacting with large amounts of people in-game in an open world. As such, I consider it a design failure that the most likely way that you'll find a group of people to regularly interact with is by leaving the game entirely, and socializing outside of it.

[Diaphin]

I think that the people arguing that you can go out of your way to join a guild/Discord/whatever to find people to play with are kind of missing the point of what made social interactions in WoW so enjoyable in the first place.

The thing about the social interactions in OG WoW is that they kind of grew, almost like a plant, from natural gameplay. You see someone in the world, and when you interact with them, be they friendly or hostile, that plants the 'seed', so to speak. And from there, more interactions result, and the plant grows.

You see that person in the world again: If you had to work together on a group quest previously or ran a dungeon together or something, you might do so again, which can lead to being friends, which can lead to one of you inviting the other to their guild, which can lead in to raiding. If they were hostile, you might try to fight them again, you might try to run because they're better than you, you might start a personal Kill on Sight blacklist for them and everyone in their guild, which could lead to server rivalries. These kinds of social interactions are what helped sell you on Azeroth being a living, breathing world, and I don't think the game would be looked back on so fondly if not for them.

As opposed to now, where if you're unfortunate enough to not be in a guild already, you just level without saying a single thing to anyone, and once you're done you have to start joining Discords, looking for communities, and handing out applications to guilds and group leaders that you're totally unfamiliar with like you're looking for a job. To me that just feels cold, impersonal and unsatisfying; The difference between growing something yourself versus buying a fully-grown plant from the store.

Both forms of socialization have their pros and cons depending on the game of course, but this a game that at least pretends to be about interacting with large amounts of people in-game in an open world. As such, I consider it a design failure that the most likely way that you'll find a group of people to regularly interact with is by leaving the game entirely, and socializing outside of it.

That barely ever happened. Usually you only start to chat with people when you are looking for dungeons or for a 5 player quest and you only do this because the game design won't allow you to actually play the game during that time. What you describe is nothing but a fanfiction.

[Wavebossa]

The social issue with WoW is largely how alot of play the game.

I've been lurking on this site for years, and I've realized a few things by reading some of your posts.

1. Most of the people who complain about the social issues in WoW are not in a guild they like
2. Most of the people who complain about the social issues in WoW pug the majority of their content
3. Most of the people who complain about the social issues in WoW are not very strong players

That trifecta will guarantee that you have shitty social interactions in this game. However the plus side is that you can change this now. Find a guild around your skill level, and play the game how the rest of us do.