View Poll Results: How exicted will serious race progression make to you in WoW

Voters
75. You may not vote on this poll
  • Super excited

    22 29.33%
  • Very excited

    17 22.67%
  • Little excited

    7 9.33%
  • Indifferent

    20 26.67%
  • Don't want it: it will annoy me

    9 12.00%
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  1. #21
    So, this is concept I started developing a few months ago before work got busy, but I am too tired to really write a proper post about it.




    The jist of it was that each race would get 3 "character archetypes" which each provides 1 of 3 racial abilities (mostly using the existing and parallel Allied Race racials); then 1 racial class-ability (as Priests once did) regardless of archtype. More-often-than-not this would be an enhanced version of an existing class spell. Both of these abilities can then be augmented with conduits. Conduits also provide racially-thematic Class passives. Finally, the archetype passives are class-agnostic.

    To minimise dev-time they would want to create minimal class-specific bonuses and keep those class-specific bonuses agnostic of specialisation (invariably, like with covenant abilities, some would serve certain specs better than others) and try to incorporate all existing racials and re-skin existing conduits and some other stray legacy bonuses to prevent power bloat. This also has the benefit of making Allied races an entirely cosmetic decision/unlock.

    Your initial archetype would be chosen at character creation, with the ability to re-spec being superficial (simply a case of going to visit an "archetype leader" out in the wild somewhere and doing a thematic quest for them). No conduit levels. No gated RNG unlocks. You unlock the whole system simply as a parallel to levelling.

    Orc:Maghar - Oathbound (Orcish Clans themed), Warlord (Horde themed) and Bloodthirster (Chaos themed)
    Troll:Zandalari - Defector (Blood and Sand), Shadow Hunter (inc. Witch Doctor) and Loa-Chosen
    Nightborne:Belf - Aristocrat, Magistrix and Felsworn
    Pandaren (Both Factions) - Lorewalker, Houjin and Tushui
    Highmountain/Tauren - Nomad, Chieftain, Outcast
    Mecha/Gnomes - Tinkerer, Researcher (Light/Arcane themed), Rebel (Defector?)
    Worgen:Nelf - Wildling, Cursed (Death and Fire), Elune's Chosen (Light and Arcane)
    Lightforged/Draenei - Man'ari, Lightsworn, Void-touched
    Kul Tiran/Human - Bandit, Knight, Mariner
    Dark Iron/Dwarf - Aerie, Mountaineer, Shadowforged

    These four don't have direct Allied Race parallels so they adopt a mix of suitable other archetypes already mentioned, re-skinned and with access to some cross-faction archetype options. There's 3 original archetypes between them with Goblin and Vulpera mostly sharing a set, and Forsaken and Void Elves getting particularly extensive reskins archetypes which would reskin many of their abilities akin to Warlock Green Fire.

    Golbin - Salvager, Alchemist, Tinkerer
    Vulpera - Scavenger (Salvager Reskin), Tinkerer, Nomad (Caravan Reskin)
    Forsaken - Apothecary (Alchemist Reskin), Cultist (Dark Ranger and Necromancers go brrr) and Champion (Knight Reskin)
    Void Elves - Researcher (Void Themed), Magistrix (inc. Spatial Rift), Noble (High Elf Aristocrat Reskin, inc. Arcane Torrent)

  2. #22
    I pretty much only play humans or orcs depending on what faction I am on so while it would be cool the first time but the time spent developing content for each race is just wasted dev time for a player like me. It would be better if they focused on class stuff as that would at least vary depending on what class you are playing. Pretty much just take what they did in legion for classes and put that to a different higher level.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by draugril View Post
    Great idea. WoW desperately needs continuous more narratives instead of the slipshod episodes of annual doom they've been pumping out since WoD.

    That's precisely why it'll never happen, though. They only do self-contained episodes now. The stories on Azeroth and Kalimdor are "over." Your race's story is "over." Onto the next story, where we need to save the newly-discovered Kingdom of Gingledoof from the Splorts and unlock the Phrenlite allied race! No one cares about Humans or Orcs or any available flavour of Elf!
    Man never have I seen a post ring more true.

    Thing is Blizzard HAS to rely on novelty, because if you don't make something new, and if you don't make your villains more and more powerful.

    You need to at least make them interesting.

    And Blizzard could labour for a decade, have laboured for a decade, and have yet to produce anything interesting.
    Corporate wishes everyone a happy new year

  4. #24
    As much as I would like it (mostly because NEs are desperately in need of positive development), I don't see it being feasible. There are more races than classes now, it'd be easier for them to just go back to class halls & oriented campaigns, especially since a decent chunk of the races aren't widely played. It'd be hard to justify putting the same amount of resources into humans & BEs as pandaren for example, not to mention that you'd get complaints about having to have one of every race to do all the content.

    I've been wanting another EK/Kalimdor revamp for ages, I think that each race could be given agency in their homelands just allow all players to participate. Several races are dispossessed, we could help them return to/rebuild their homes or settle new ones. I would say there could be some added text/dialog for flavor if you're a member of the race that's being helped but I've seen zero of that in Shadowlands for DK players so far so even that seems to be asking for too much. I just don't have very high expectations of Blizzard at this point.
    "People with depression score higher on tests of realism. Intelligence is positively correlated with mental illness and suicide. What this indicates is that if the mind understands too much about reality, it wants to destroy itself. Human life is existential horror."

  5. #25
    I am Murloc! gaymer77's Avatar
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    The problem with this idea is that after the base game World of Warcraft (aka vanilla) both the Horde and Alliance have had other problems across many times and places to deal with. Defeating a greater evil is more important than furthering your individual race's progression. Each of those races are now banding together to fight a grander foe. If you want to further expand on your race, I'd suggest playing through the vanilla experience with a character when given the opportunity from Chromie. Why would the goblins work towards their own race and city if there's this big baddie that could wipe out the entire planet including the goblins? Why would the gnomes try and reclaim their homeland if some major threat is planning on taking over the world? It just doesn't make sense why they would do that. Focusing on the larger picture is more important.

  6. #26
    The Lightbringer Sanguinerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    Thats not true, in theater of pain they explicitly say "maw walkers".
    They do? Well my bad then.

    Still feels that way though but I'll try and see if I can find more places its said.
    Last edited by Sanguinerd; 2021-06-08 at 07:31 AM.
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  7. #27
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Self-interest and conflict between races and tribes would be an interesting replacement for the simple faction stuff they have now.
    “We live in a moment where everything immediately seems to default to outrage. There’s a kind of M.O. of either it’s exactly how I see it, or you’re my enemy.”

  8. #28
    I'll write what i wrote on your other thread, in the lore forum, long ago:

    Life Quests

    Life quests were a type of epic race-specific questlines which were planned to be included in the original World of Warcraft. Each life quest told the story of its respective race and what their purpose in the world is, often continuing the story set up in the "smaller" regular quests. For example, the undead life quest revolved around their effort to develop a new plague and would have involved rescuing the undead player character's father from captivity, while the orc life quest would give players a taste of the demonic influence from their past and force them to combat it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Niter View Post
    Blizzard said many things about making the world more interesting and dynamic, and they have lost time and time again excellent opportunities. They have their phasing tech that's worked really well for gameplay and narrative, and I wonder why there aren't dynamic events akin to those in Guild Wars 2. Why can't we have a call to arms in Ashenvale, when the Night Elves are pushing the Warsong back? Why aren't there dynamic quests to fend off the Horde attacking in Arathi, attempting to sack Soutshore? What about the Ogres, Yeti and other monsters starting a raid in Alterac? Maybe the a Silithid empowered by an Old God minion has rallied forces in Silithus, pushed an underground tunnel to Feralas and started an invasion? Why can't the Naga or the Sea Witch threaten Durotar, and Trolls and Orcs get mobilised to put an end to them? Can't the Black Orcs, helped by a black dragonspawn start gathering forces to push against the Dwarves in Loch Modan? What about a Scourge Raid, maching from the Dead Scar into Silvermoon, and, as a result, all Thalassian Elves unite for a short while to make sure the threat is handled?
    Man, i had the same thought.
    Look at Dynamic Events and World PvP Skirmishes on my thread:
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...be-implemented

    There is so much they could do, but these 'self-contained episodes', looking more and more anime-like with their world-ending menaces and power level going all over the place are the norm now, and Blizzard believe that a soulless, yet polished and with a fine attempt at striking the balance between repetition, progress and fun, is the way to go because it's cheaper.
    On Point.
    Legion cinematic trailer could not have given me more anime vibes than it already had.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    Well, agency is choice - free will.

    What you're describing in detail was basically the Heritage Questlines. But yeah, those were fun. They can do more of those.

    What I'm really looking for in freedom of races though is the ability to be any class as any race. Those kinds of stories can make for great quests imo. Like the Sunwalker stuff. But some people ree into eternity at the mention of stuff like that. I like it, tho.

    For example: Night Warrior could be a good reason to start Night Elf Paladins who take their power from Elune forcefully. One example.
    You'd have to give them unique backgrounds and lore. Otherwise, there would be nothing special about these race/class combinations.

    Night elf Paladins existed before the Night Warrior. They are an overdue class/race combination since Legion. No need for the Night Warrior (which, can serve as an aspect of a new class).

    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    What characters do you have who don't fit any covenant?
    There are many characters who don't, exactly, fit service, nature, war or sin.

    Quote Originally Posted by AngerFork View Post
    Aside from those classes though, I see no reason to hold the rest back from being playable everywhere.
    Lore and background, maybe?

    Quote Originally Posted by thesmall001 View Post
    So, this is concept I started developing a few months ago before work got busy, but I am too tired to really write a proper post about it.


    This is hella interesting.
    You should do a thread about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77 View Post
    Why would the goblins work towards their own race and city if there's this big baddie that could wipe out the entire planet including the goblins? Why would the gnomes try and reclaim their homeland if some major threat is planning on taking over the world? It just doesn't make sense why they would do that. Focusing on the larger picture is more important.
    Because personal problems are important too? (and interesting)
    Commenting on these forums is like walking on eggshells - you never know where the next infraction is gonna come from.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77 View Post
    The problem with this idea is that after the base game World of Warcraft (aka vanilla) both the Horde and Alliance have had other problems across many times and places to deal with. Defeating a greater evil is more important than furthering your individual race's progression. Each of those races are now banding together to fight a grander foe. If you want to further expand on your race, I'd suggest playing through the vanilla experience with a character when given the opportunity from Chromie. Why would the goblins work towards their own race and city if there's this big baddie that could wipe out the entire planet including the goblins? Why would the gnomes try and reclaim their homeland if some major threat is planning on taking over the world? It just doesn't make sense why they would do that. Focusing on the larger picture is more important.
    And the problem with that is it's unrealistic. Given the existing stories we have, the problems your race has experienced hasn't stopped just because you banded together to fight a big bad.

    There are still lots of unanswered questions, and some of those big bads you fight would have a very profound effect and impact on you race, especially their defeat or emergence.

    Furthermore, races aren't all altruistic, why are the blood elves fighting with the horde, their main purpose is not to solve the horde's issues or big bad, it's to achieve their own ends.. what about the story that tells that.

    So now the ngiht elves have no home, they have no story because their are big bads that need to be dealt with?

    the story of the races is part of the story of the world too, and they aren't mutually exclusive with the big event that is happening. Why couldn't we see how goblins were handling the legion events and capitalising on the azerite through a series of in game quest campaigns that ran along side the main storyline? was the only story to tell that which the Zandalari were up to and N'zoth or Azshara's scheming? n o - what about if yor you what you can get out of the adventures against the big bad is more important to you than stopping it. What if you're in it for your people - doesn't that story need to be told too?

    But the races disappear unless they are specifically tied to the main plot theme (and that's not always as SL shows), yet they are supposed to continue to exist. if they don't matter, then why have all that back ground lore, characterisation and continue to tell their stories? And if only the big bad should be important, then each expansion should have us teleport to some new world away from all the other races, fighting to stop universal threats, but nothing to do with our racial or faction identities.

    Question is do you think this is worth doing as a feature to accompany the existing plots and story line, or should races continue to be ignored?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Because personal problems are important too? (and interesting)
    10/10

    Good answer

  10. #30
    @Beloren -- if you recall, I've been a huge supporter of this, and I think it should have been done a long time ago. Blizzard may not realise it, but people are more into their races in this game than any other game. It is one of their strongest assets.

    When you look at forum discussions, issues, complaints, you have gameplay ones, but the story , state, discussion of the races is one of the biggest topics of interest, excitement, fan generation. Sub-races and allied races are hugely popular because of this- and yet for such a creative bunch, whoever is driving the direction of wow, has had a big blindspot on this area.

    Quote Originally Posted by thesmall001 View Post
    So, this is concept I started developing a few months ago before work got busy, but I am too tired to really write a proper post about it.




    The jist of it was that each race would get 3 "character archetypes" which each provides 1 of 3 racial abilities (mostly using the existing and parallel Allied Race racials); then 1 racial class-ability (as Priests once did) regardless of archtype. More-often-than-not this would be an enhanced version of an existing class spell. Both of these abilities can then be augmented with conduits. Conduits also provide racially-thematic Class passives. Finally, the archetype passives are class-agnostic.

    To minimise dev-time they would want to create minimal class-specific bonuses and keep those class-specific bonuses agnostic of specialisation (invariably, like with covenant abilities, some would serve certain specs better than others) and try to incorporate all existing racials and re-skin existing conduits and some other stray legacy bonuses to prevent power bloat. This also has the benefit of making Allied races an entirely cosmetic decision/unlock.

    Your initial archetype would be chosen at character creation, with the ability to re-spec being superficial (simply a case of going to visit an "archetype leader" out in the wild somewhere and doing a thematic quest for them). No conduit levels. No gated RNG unlocks. You unlock the whole system simply as a parallel to levelling.

    Orc:Maghar - Oathbound (Orcish Clans themed), Warlord (Horde themed) and Bloodthirster (Chaos themed)
    Troll:Zandalari - Defector (Blood and Sand), Shadow Hunter (inc. Witch Doctor) and Loa-Chosen
    Nightborne:Belf - Aristocrat, Magistrix and Felsworn
    Pandaren (Both Factions) - Lorewalker, Houjin and Tushui
    Highmountain/Tauren - Nomad, Chieftain, Outcast
    Mecha/Gnomes - Tinkerer, Researcher (Light/Arcane themed), Rebel (Defector?)
    Worgen:Nelf - Wildling, Cursed (Death and Fire), Elune's Chosen (Light and Arcane)
    Lightforged/Draenei - Man'ari, Lightsworn, Void-touched
    Kul Tiran/Human - Bandit, Knight, Mariner
    Dark Iron/Dwarf - Aerie, Mountaineer, Shadowforged

    These four don't have direct Allied Race parallels so they adopt a mix of suitable other archetypes already mentioned, re-skinned and with access to some cross-faction archetype options. There's 3 original archetypes between them with Goblin and Vulpera mostly sharing a set, and Forsaken and Void Elves getting particularly extensive reskins archetypes which would reskin many of their abilities akin to Warlock Green Fire.

    Golbin - Salvager, Alchemist, Tinkerer
    Vulpera - Scavenger (Salvager Reskin), Tinkerer, Nomad (Caravan Reskin)
    Forsaken - Apothecary (Alchemist Reskin), Cultist (Dark Ranger and Necromancers go brrr) and Champion (Knight Reskin)
    Void Elves - Researcher (Void Themed), Magistrix (inc. Spatial Rift), Noble (High Elf Aristocrat Reskin, inc. Arcane Torrent)
    I hung heads with @Mace on this did something similar to this a while ago - based on some ideas he had presented in the past, but instead based it on a capital rebuilding system thing. Which would have an element tie into current player progression that would advance the racials of the character in addition to class abilities (at least for the expansion it was introduced in, though it could carry on into the future ones)

    Class abilities would be racially themed too.

    But there would also be a vehicle for the source of the improvements... and these would be also racially themed based on the race's lore.

    for e.g. Blood elves would have the Sunwell - light side, Sunwell - arcane side and something like the Nether storm conduit or blood gem or fel crystal that would serve as the source of their power. Just like Artefact weapons had new extensions later on in Legion and Azerite necklace had improved features too... the opening part would start with the Blood elves' Sunwell Light side, then a subsequent patch you will unlock things on the arcane side, and a subsequent patch would involve the Netherstorm.


    The idea is to tap into the things that represent the race.

    Draenei would have the Atamal crystals - they could 3 crystals for progression, or switch to the Naaru for the second one

    Dwarves would have 3 titan paths. Kazgorath, Golganneth and Aman'thul
    Night elves would have the Well of Eternity (arcane), Nordrassil or Shaladrassil (nature/Emerald dream), Font of Elune - as the 3 key racial items.


    Part of the early quests concerning the capitals is linking your race to their sources of power or inspiration.

    Here are some of the topics I can recall this was discussed in detail.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ral-expansions
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...-in-one-stroke
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...-of-a-lot-more


    So I would expand some of your selections above to make sure key elements of each race have some expression to the things they are really good at: In the lore, certain races have an extensive involvement and interaction around certain key classes and disciplines

    Humans: Warriors, Priests, Mages, Paladins
    Night elves: Priests (incl wardens & Sentinels), Mages, Druids
    Blood elves: Mages, Paladins, Hunters
    Tauren: Shaman, Hunters, Warriors
    Orcs: Warriors, Hunters, Shaman, Locks

    Some races have 1, some 2, some 3, some 4 - but they have extensive lore tied to those elements and should have things reflecting that.
    Last edited by ravenmoon; 2021-06-08 at 03:18 PM.
    Valewalker Farodin: "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

    My long replies often repeat info to make sure: You get all the info I have, It is clear and complete, in case you didn't actually read the first one. New readers have context at hand and are reminded of the point

  11. #31
    It could but to be frank wow's writing is fucking terrible... its lore is amazing and rather deep but the stories blizzard seems capable of telling with that lore are in no way interesting enough to justify this.

  12. #32
    Blizzard has historically moved away from this. It appears that they want racial choices to be lore choices primarily, and aesthetic choices secondarily.

    Even for more classes, if you look at the differences in dps per race, its neck and neck

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Wavebossa View Post
    Blizzard has historically moved away from this. It appears that they want racial choices to be lore choices primarily, and aesthetic choices secondarily.

    Even for more classes, if you look at the differences in dps per race, its neck and neck
    It's one of the biggest areas they disconnect on the desires of their playerbase. Can you imagine how much higher the satisfaction and engagement would have been if they had done this seriously? I would still be playing.

    We would have gotten more lore and better lore. Better engagement, and better tying in of various elements. It would have helped them a lot and made the story more engaging.
    Valewalker Farodin: "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

    My long replies often repeat info to make sure: You get all the info I have, It is clear and complete, in case you didn't actually read the first one. New readers have context at hand and are reminded of the point

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Lore and background, maybe?
    Perhaps, though that is becoming increasingly easier to move past for most classes as time goes on IMO. Some race/class combos still don't make sense, but there are several more that are just not really shown at this point. Let's look at it class by class.

    Death Knight - Everyone already has one.

    Demon Hunter - Definitely the toughest one, especially since the Allied Races didn't join until after Illidan left so they are unlikely to have taken part in the rituals. You'd almost need someone from the Demon Hunter class hall to reopen training & the like, similar to how Bolvar added in new DKs.

    Druid - While not many races have Druids, it's not like the path of nature is exactly closed off to those willing to learn. There are definitely a few who stand out (Mechagnomes, Goblins, Void Elves, etc) as really not great looks, but overall each race could try to take it on with their own take on how it would be. This one would be a pretty hard sell, just due to how some classes might water down the true meaning of what Druidism is.

    Hunter - Pretty sure everyone has one.

    Mage - Only missing from Tauren/HM Tauren. They are very much a smart race, there's no reason they couldn't learn to work with the Arcane currently in place.

    Monk - Only ones missing are Worgen, LF Draenei, & Goblins. Goblins are willing to do whatever for money, it's easy to see them picking up martial arts for bill collection. As Worgen have gotten more control over their minds, it's not that hard to see them leaning more towards an inner strength sort of power, plus their claws would make those strikes devastating. LF Draenei have rebuilt their bodies due to the Light, plus T'paartos was largely a Monk given his main attack was Mighty Punch.

    Paladin - Night Elves already have Paladins in their Order Hall. Otherwise, pretty much every race in WoW has the capability towards zealotry and a close line towards the Light thanks to Priests, so it's not super far for most races to go. The main standouts here would be Void Elves, Undead, & Mag'har. Void Elves would likely need to adapt it towards the Void, though their High Elf ranks would help for sure. Undead Paladins might need a bit of light fixing first, a la how Calia or LF Draenei were built. But it can be done as Zeliek has shown. Mag'har would be extremely nervous about this given their home world, but they have also seen the power of the Light. A select few could opt to fight fire with fire.

    Priest - Only missing from Orcs & Highmountain Tauren. Orcs would likely pick it up from hanging with the former Shadowmoon Mag'har. HM Tauren also revere An'she, so as with above they aren't exactly too far away from this in story.

    Rogue - Only ones missing here are Draenei, Tauren, and their respective Allied Races. Everyone has a need for subterfuge, especially as the races intermingle more.

    Shaman - There is currently no lore reason I can think of for Humans, Night Elves, Worgen, Blood Elves, or Nightborne to be unable to revere/work with the Elements. Gnomes & Mechagnomes would likely use their tech to enhance the power of the elements, a deal most elements would be happy with. Some of the LF Draenei might have been regular Draenei Shaman before undergoing their forging, so they aren't that far off. The Undead are former Humans who IMO don't have a lore reason to not be Shamans, so why would this suddenly be a problem in death? The main issue here would be the Void Elves as the elements are unlikely to be thrilled about working with the Void.

    Warlock - Missing from Draenei, Night Elf, Kul'Tiran, LF Draenei, Tauren, HM Tauren, Mag'har, Pandaren, & Zandalari. Zandalari should've already had them, there was a Loa in place for that. The Mag'har would be nervous about such powers given Gul'dan's influence, but the Orcs could show them how to do it safely. Draenei/LF Draenei have seen what the Eredar became with the Legion, but a big enough threat could cause them to fight fire with fire. Plus, the Lightforged have a Nathrezim in their ranks shaped by the Light, so they have reason to believe they can overcome anything. If we saw anything from Illidan, it's that some Night Elves will sacrifice anything to keep their world safe...so it's not like they have far to go to become Warlocks. Kul'Tirans have no real opposition in lore to speak of, not a far stretch there. Neither do Pandaren, though it's not quite their culture. Tauren/HM Tauren are a bit rougher of a sell after the Feltotem, but the Bloodtotem did join the HM Tauren afterwards. They may feel they can control demons better from a position of power than their other tribe members who gave themselves to the Legion instead.

    Warrior - Everyone already has one.

  15. #35
    Wow definitely lacks cohesion in the leveling zones. Everything is nothing more than 6-7 different xpacs patched together. As a result, the story never gains traction and the races lack identity. Granted all interest is clearly focused on the end game. From a new player perspective, however; how can someone really be impressed with the game. This has been an on-going problem since MOP/ WOD and its only gotten worse despite the recent shuffle.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by thesmall001 View Post
    Snip.
    Yeah, prestige classes based on race/class combinations have been something suggested since beta. I vaguely recall an interview stating that they were seriously considered at some point, but decided against because they wanted race to primarily be an aesthetic choice. Which is a real shame.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by AngerFork View Post
    Perhaps, though that is becoming increasingly easier to move past for most classes as time goes on IMO. Some race/class combos still don't make sense, but there are several more that are just not really shown at this point. Let's look at it class by class.

    Death Knight - Everyone already has one.

    Demon Hunter - Definitely the toughest one, especially since the Allied Races didn't join until after Illidan left so they are unlikely to have taken part in the rituals. You'd almost need someone from the Demon Hunter class hall to reopen training & the like, similar to how Bolvar added in new DKs.

    Druid - While not many races have Druids, it's not like the path of nature is exactly closed off to those willing to learn. There are definitely a few who stand out (Mechagnomes, Goblins, Void Elves, etc) as really not great looks, but overall each race could try to take it on with their own take on how it would be. This one would be a pretty hard sell, just due to how some classes might water down the true meaning of what Druidism is.

    Hunter - Pretty sure everyone has one.

    Mage - Only missing from Tauren/HM Tauren. They are very much a smart race, there's no reason they couldn't learn to work with the Arcane currently in place.

    Monk - Only ones missing are Worgen, LF Draenei, & Goblins. Goblins are willing to do whatever for money, it's easy to see them picking up martial arts for bill collection. As Worgen have gotten more control over their minds, it's not that hard to see them leaning more towards an inner strength sort of power, plus their claws would make those strikes devastating. LF Draenei have rebuilt their bodies due to the Light, plus T'paartos was largely a Monk given his main attack was Mighty Punch.

    Paladin - Night Elves already have Paladins in their Order Hall. Otherwise, pretty much every race in WoW has the capability towards zealotry and a close line towards the Light thanks to Priests, so it's not super far for most races to go. The main standouts here would be Void Elves, Undead, & Mag'har. Void Elves would likely need to adapt it towards the Void, though their High Elf ranks would help for sure. Undead Paladins might need a bit of light fixing first, a la how Calia or LF Draenei were built. But it can be done as Zeliek has shown. Mag'har would be extremely nervous about this given their home world, but they have also seen the power of the Light. A select few could opt to fight fire with fire.

    Priest - Only missing from Orcs & Highmountain Tauren. Orcs would likely pick it up from hanging with the former Shadowmoon Mag'har. HM Tauren also revere An'she, so as with above they aren't exactly too far away from this in story.

    Rogue - Only ones missing here are Draenei, Tauren, and their respective Allied Races. Everyone has a need for subterfuge, especially as the races intermingle more.

    Shaman - There is currently no lore reason I can think of for Humans, Night Elves, Worgen, Blood Elves, or Nightborne to be unable to revere/work with the Elements. Gnomes & Mechagnomes would likely use their tech to enhance the power of the elements, a deal most elements would be happy with. Some of the LF Draenei might have been regular Draenei Shaman before undergoing their forging, so they aren't that far off. The Undead are former Humans who IMO don't have a lore reason to not be Shamans, so why would this suddenly be a problem in death? The main issue here would be the Void Elves as the elements are unlikely to be thrilled about working with the Void.

    Warlock - Missing from Draenei, Night Elf, Kul'Tiran, LF Draenei, Tauren, HM Tauren, Mag'har, Pandaren, & Zandalari. Zandalari should've already had them, there was a Loa in place for that. The Mag'har would be nervous about such powers given Gul'dan's influence, but the Orcs could show them how to do it safely. Draenei/LF Draenei have seen what the Eredar became with the Legion, but a big enough threat could cause them to fight fire with fire. Plus, the Lightforged have a Nathrezim in their ranks shaped by the Light, so they have reason to believe they can overcome anything. If we saw anything from Illidan, it's that some Night Elves will sacrifice anything to keep their world safe...so it's not like they have far to go to become Warlocks. Kul'Tirans have no real opposition in lore to speak of, not a far stretch there. Neither do Pandaren, though it's not quite their culture. Tauren/HM Tauren are a bit rougher of a sell after the Feltotem, but the Bloodtotem did join the HM Tauren afterwards. They may feel they can control demons better from a position of power than their other tribe members who gave themselves to the Legion instead.

    Warrior - Everyone already has one.
    Go have a look at my thread, i did something similar:
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...s-combinations
    Commenting on these forums is like walking on eggshells - you never know where the next infraction is gonna come from.

  18. #38
    I thought BFA would be about Race Campaign in the same way Legion was about Class campaign.

    I'd like to see it happen.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    @Beloren -- if you recall, I've been a huge supporter of this, and I think it should have been done a long time ago. Blizzard may not realise it, but people are more into their races in this game than any other game. It is one of their strongest assets.

    When you look at forum discussions, issues, complaints, you have gameplay ones, but the story , state, discussion of the races is one of the biggest topics of interest, excitement, fan generation. Sub-races and allied races are hugely popular because of this- and yet for such a creative bunch, whoever is driving the direction of wow, has had a big blindspot on this area.



    I hung heads with @Mace on this did something similar to this a while ago - based on some ideas he had presented in the past, but instead based it on a capital rebuilding system thing. Which would have an element tie into current player progression that would advance the racials of the character in addition to class abilities (at least for the expansion it was introduced in, though it could carry on into the future ones)

    Class abilities would be racially themed too.

    But there would also be a vehicle for the source of the improvements... and these would be also racially themed based on the race's lore.

    for e.g. Blood elves would have the Sunwell - light side, Sunwell - arcane side and something like the Nether storm conduit or blood gem or fel crystal that would serve as the source of their power. Just like Artefact weapons had new extensions later on in Legion and Azerite necklace had improved features too... the opening part would start with the Blood elves' Sunwell Light side, then a subsequent patch you will unlock things on the arcane side, and a subsequent patch would involve the Netherstorm.


    The idea is to tap into the things that represent the race.

    Draenei would have the Atamal crystals - they could 3 crystals for progression, or switch to the Naaru for the second one

    Dwarves would have 3 titan paths. Kazgorath, Golganneth and Aman'thul
    Night elves would have the Well of Eternity (arcane), Nordrassil or Shaladrassil (nature/Emerald dream), Font of Elune - as the 3 key racial items.


    Part of the early quests concerning the capitals is linking your race to their sources of power or inspiration.

    Here are some of the topics I can recall this was discussed in detail.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ral-expansions
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...-in-one-stroke
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...-of-a-lot-more


    So I would expand some of your selections above to make sure key elements of each race have some expression to the things they are really good at: In the lore, certain races have an extensive involvement and interaction around certain key classes and disciplines

    Humans: Warriors, Priests, Mages, Paladins
    Night elves: Priests (incl wardens & Sentinels), Mages, Druids
    Blood elves: Mages, Paladins, Hunters
    Tauren: Shaman, Hunters, Warriors
    Orcs: Warriors, Hunters, Shaman, Locks

    Some races have 1, some 2, some 3, some 4 - but they have extensive lore tied to those elements and should have things reflecting that.
    You'd also likely need to do one for Demon hunters and DKs, which really are sort of both a race and class.

    Or you could weave the DKs into the Forsaken undead storyline, because they fit, and allow that storyline to be a bit more expansive. Demon hunters you could split and weave them into both the Night elves and the Thalassian elves. On the night elven side you'd be exploring the impact of dealing with Illidan being right, how far do you accept their help or corporation now you know they actually can wield this power without falling to corruption, this can also ty into larger arcs with night elven prejudice against arcane, then fel. Then ofc Dhs are bound to have inspired younger night elves who after the WoT are left with the same rage those elves who became demon hunters had.

    On the Thalassian side, Demon hunters could have a very different outset, perhaps returning to outland to recruit fel elves and hunt straggling demons can open the door to the DH customisation being available to other classes, like warlock , mage, priest, hunter, warrior on the premise that these are fel elves recruited. I guess you can have your night elven warlocks for the night elf equivalent although unlike blood elves, the Nelf warlocks will be exclusively Illidari demon hunters who specialise in the caster side and use the warlock class mechanic to represent them as you've suggested.

    But those would be their story hooks. I think this would be more feasible, because I would imagine blizzard wanting less race stories rather than more, so if you're combining allied races into the tale of main races, then you would also fold DK/DH story lines into one of them.


    Hmm.. but would the DK be able to experience his race's storyline instead if it's tied to the forsaken? or should it go the DH route where it would have a special questline or maybe in some races like humans and orcs it's more involved for the obvious extensive DK lore on them. Blood elves too , having the whole Darkfallen/San'layn thing.. Night elves too because they have that Ravencrest undead in Val'Sharah and the dark rangers , Tauren has the story form the comics, Trolls have the whole Zul'drak thing, so those races can have special additions to the normal race storyline. Gnomes, Goblins, Draenei, Dwarves, worgen, Tauren Pandas have nothing so DK players there would only play through the standard race story, or maybe given a choice to participate in one of the races who do have a story line arc for undead.

  20. #40
    Pandaren Monk
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    More race specific stuff? yes please.
    Updates to cities and story? Yes please (for pities sake Silvermoon is still under attack by the scourge)
    Regular, visible updates in the game world from progressing story? yes, a thousand times yes
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never....BURN IT"

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