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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Okay, so how do YOU think wrathion will locate the dragon isles if you're convinced against the OP.


    Lets take a step back from tinkers and ask, how will the dragon isles finally be discovered if the OP is soooo farfetched?

    Like's that the heart of the OP, a method of finding the dragon isles. Perhaps MOTHER alone is enough and she doesnt need the best engineers on azeroth, perhaps she isn't. But how else can the isles be found besides those two scenarios or some lame unoriginal expedition via boats.
    The issue I think that people have (which I want to be clear, I'm simply interpreting, not agreeing with) is that the speculation has no real roots.

    Here's an intentionally bad example:

    - K'aresh will be the next expansion
    - Ethereals will bring in Tinker class
    - Undermine is the launch point for our space travel. They've been building a giant space ship there for god knows what reason.
    - We'll be visiting both post-Dimensius K'aresh and also defending AU K'aresh before it was exploded
    - AU K'aresh will introduce Yrel and her Army of the Light back into the story.


    You can see I've shoehorned a bunch of unrelated plot points together to create a narrative. Everything I mention here is a possibility. And that's pretty much it.

    We can look at it and analyze that nothing is accurate except the mention of locations. Everything else is pure speculation, and pretty unlikely to happen in this specific way as a full package. The only thing we know is right is the names of characters and locations.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-06-10 at 06:07 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  2. #242
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Exactly. Also heading straight to a light/void expansion right after SL is exhausting, we need a sorbet, like MoP after cata. Dragon Isles seems liek the perfect choice.

    So class wise, the easy answer is dragonsworn for obvious reasons. But then one could assume that dragonsworns can just easily be the next covenants. Also tinkers have been in our face since vanilla, have been a unit in warcraft 3, has representation in HoTS, and island expeditions and should have higehr priority than dragonsworn.

    Throw in the fact that the dragon isles have been hidden possibly like Uldum then you get why I thought up the OP. Also Undermine has been referenced so many times in wow and still not implemented.
    I don’t think a technology class having a basis in WoW is a problem. I think the main issue is how to implement them into the game. Expansion wise, I would put a Lightbound invasion as more imminent than a Dragon Isles expansion. There’s a lot of pieces in place for Yrel’s return, and I believe that such an invasion would have a much deeper impact on the game as a whole, making it far more engaging story-wise than BFA and Shadowlands.

    I mean just consider a situation where you have huge swaths of the Alliance defecting, Turalyon moving Stormwind towards supporting Yrel and some races in the alliance (especially the Draenei) supporting the Lightbound. Anduin, compromised by the events in Shadowlands simply has less influence and it weakens the Alliance as a whole, which is a very bad considering the Lightbound’s overwhelming threat towards Azeroth. This forces the Horde to do the heavy lifting in repelling Yrel’s forces. That situation could lead the Horde to seek out help from Undermine and the Goblin trade princes who have technology and resources.

    I simply think that makes a more compelling expansion than seeking the Dragon Isles.

    Heck, I could see Dragon Isles even be reduced to a patch.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2021-06-10 at 06:02 PM.

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    There are 52 Covenant abilities in Shadowlands. You view that as a “few”? Also we’re talking about abilities that can’t be removed because they’re taking the place of the technology class, and they are abilities that have to always be considered when designing every single spec moving forward.

    Yeah, doing a class would be easier, and wouldn’t hinder the design of the entire class system.



    What’s the difference? We’re talking about abilities that benefit a class. I’m sure Warriors would highly benefit from Ice Barrier.

    - - - Updated - - -




    That’s largely how I view the class as well. However, I view mechs as its cornerstone, and present in every single spec. Mech piloting is the glue that connects Goblin, Gnome, Draenei, and Nightborne tech along with the WC3 Tinker class,

    It also gives the class a unique distinction within the class lineup.
    you keep ignoring the rpg aspect im guessing because magic and tech are different even in WoW
    you have an engineering profession but you dont have a frost mage profession

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I don’t see a scenario where Blizzard doesn’t announce a new class for 10.0. No new class in 8 years would be a disaster for them.
    Yes. 8 years with no new class and to escape a "disaster" the class that Blizzard will announce will be something that only matches Gnomes and Goblins and will make us literally revive mechagon??
    We don't need to work at Blizzard to know this isn't going to happen.

  5. #245
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantazma View Post
    Yes. 8 years with no new class and to escape a "disaster" the class that Blizzard will announce will be something that only matches Gnomes and Goblins and will make us literally revive mechagon??
    We don't need to work at Blizzard to know this isn't going to happen.
    It matches Draenei, the Nightborne, and Dwarves as well.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    you keep ignoring the rpg aspect im guessing because magic and tech are different even in WoW
    you have an engineering profession but you dont have a frost mage profession
    Which has nothing to do with your notion that Blizzard would create a permanent set of covenant “tech” abilities because of a bizarre fear towards creating a technology class.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    It matches Draenei, the Nightborne, and Dwarves as well.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Which has nothing to do with your notion that Blizzard would create a permanent set of covenant “tech” abilities because of a bizarre fear towards creating a technology class.
    i never said anything about a fear lol

    again its just a tree with a few abilities
    ya take that and make 4 trees
    congrats you have a tree that can work for all classes

    now as for it being easier than a class...its true dude
    you dont have class auras
    you dont have a spellbook full of abilities
    you dont have to balance it against the other classes

    it also fits if you do the whole "hey we use tech to advance our world and the heroes now know how to use it" and theres no reason for it to be removed
    you keep saying it should be but the only comparisons you have are things that were reliant on something outside of the world itself
    azerite gear empowered by the heart which we dont have storywise
    artifact weapons got drained
    covenants are in a different plane of existence
    those arent comparable to magic which requires years of training
    also the precedent of technology staying with the player is already in the game through engineering

  7. #247
    To answer Teriz, what you posted might further hint at the Tinker becoming playable sometime in the future. It does not, however, link it to a Light expansion, just like Legion tech didn't link the Tinker to a Demon expansion nor did elves' tech link the Tinker to an Arcane expansion, neither did Kyrians' robots link the Tinker to a Death expansion. Stop forcing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Again, that in no way, shape or form proves a "necessity". All it does is showcase a perceived pattern that, once again, in no way shape or form "proves a necessity" for future classes.
    in no way shape or form does it not make it so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Okay, so how do YOU think wrathion will locate the dragon isles if you're convinced against the OP.


    Lets take a step back from tinkers and ask, how will the dragon isles finally be discovered if the OP is soooo farfetched?

    Like's that the heart of the OP, a method of finding the dragon isles. Perhaps MOTHER alone is enough and she doesnt need the best engineers on azeroth, perhaps she isn't. But how else can the isles be found besides those two scenarios or some lame unoriginal expedition via boats.
    How was Pandaria found? by accident.

    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Exactly. Also heading straight to a light/void expansion right after SL is exhausting, we need a sorbet, like MoP after cata. Dragon Isles seems liek the perfect choice.

    So class wise, the easy answer is dragonsworn for obvious reasons. But then one could assume that dragonsworns can just easily be the next covenants. Also tinkers have been in our face since vanilla, have been a unit in warcraft 3, has representation in HoTS, and island expeditions and should have higehr priority than dragonsworn.

    Throw in the fact that the dragon isles have been hidden possibly like Uldum then you get why I thought up the OP. Also Undermine has been referenced so many times in wow and still not implemented.
    Your logic is flawed.
    I agree that we need a 'break' expansion.
    I agree that it would, most probably, be the Dragon Isles.
    I agree that a new class is sorely needed.
    I agree that a non-Hero class like the Tinker fits a 'break' expansion. But so does a Blademaster, for example. Everything that is not dark and evil, basically.
    But, all of that does not mean that your ridiculous theory will come to pass. Linking the Tinker to either the Dragon Isles or Light/Void expansion just because you want it doesn't serve as a convincing case.

    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    you keep ignoring the rpg aspect im guessing because magic and tech are different even in WoW
    you have an engineering profession but you dont have a frost mage profession
    That would be enchanting and inscription.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fantazma View Post
    Yes. 8 years with no new class and to escape a "disaster" the class that Blizzard will announce will be something that only matches Gnomes and Goblins and will make us literally revive mechagon??
    We don't need to work at Blizzard to know this isn't going to happen.
    I don't know man... Goblins vs Gnomes is a pretty recurring theme in Warcraft.
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  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    in no way shape or form does it not make it so.
    What you're doing is akin to rolling a dice 3 times, each time it lands on an even number, and then you're concluding that the future rolls also have to land on an even number, "because it's a necessity".

    Again, you asserting "there is a necessity" that classes match expansions because of the three previous class introductions we had is just plain wrong. What you have is a correlation that in no way, shape or form proves causation.
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  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by pacotaco View Post
    The way I see tinkers working is something like:
    - Tank spec: like HotS D.Va, you are in a mech/armor with abilities to tank. If you die, instead of faceplanting, you get ejected. You have no armor, so you can't keep tanking, but you still can contribute with damage. You can "mount up" again after a CD completes (the CD is reduced out of combat and doing certain amount of damage while in combat)
    - Healer spec: something like a mix of Mercy and Ana. You can damage enemies and heal allies with your abilities (a grenade that increases regeneration to allies and slows the enemies in the area, a shoot that heals allies and damages enemies in its path). You can also deploy support bots that help you heal or buff allies in some way (attack speed, increased damaged).
    - Damage spec: like HotS Gazlowe but ranged. Deploy turrets and bot factories, plant mines
    I mean, that would be the opposite of what I would personally find interesting. That is, or course, just me. I'm not particularly interested in having a mech be the centerpiece of a class in WoW. If it were up to me, the inclusion of a mech would be, at most, a cooldown useable in one, maybe two specs.

    My vision for a Tinker class (and to be fair, the first thing that would change is the name, which, well, is very ugh) would be to have something that iis more like the swiss army knife of tech. If you play the Goblin intro zone, you get a variety of gizmos and gadgets to handle a huge variety of things. That, to me, is what would be fun, not emulating Robotech.

    A melee DPS spec could have things like chainsaws, drills, short range explosions, giant claw attacks, flamethrowers, limited stealth, basically any combination of fin tech stuff that makes people bleed and burn.

    A ranged DPS spec would have guns, guns and more guns. Machine guns? Sure? Lasers? Why not? Orbital bombardment? Yup. Mines? Yessir. Turrets? Oh yeah, turrets. All sorts of fun tools to make the enemy melt and be reduced to ash.

    A tank spec could specialize in force shields, almost like a Disc Priest on steroids, but only for himself. If you absolutely need to have a mech, this is where I'd put it. Hell, toss in some robot buddies that help him tank and run interference. Make him a tank unlike other tanks.

    A healing spec, for me, should be some combination of the Alchemy unit from WC3, and the concept of the Apothecary from the Forsaken. Using dark science with just a smidge of magic juice to heal allies, but also melt the shit out of enemies. Potions, concoctions, vile sprays and thrown powders, make the heal spec of the class actually be the more 'sinister' of the specs, which is a fun twist.

    But, like everything, ask a dozen people what they'd like and you'll probably get a dozen different answers. This one is just mine.

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post

    That would be enchanting and inscription.


    so enchanting lets me summon a frost elemental and blink and summon frost comets
    or is that inscription??

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    What you're doing is akin to rolling a dice 3 times, each time it lands on an even number, and then you're concluding that the future rolls also have to land on an even number, "because it's a necessity".

    Again, you asserting "there is a necessity" that classes match expansions because of the three previous class introductions we had is just plain wrong. What you have is a correlation that in no way, shape or form proves causation.
    i mean blizz did say they only introduce classes during expansions where that class fits

    i mean it would have to be a very specific theme for a class

  11. #251
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    i never said anything about a fear lol
    Fear would be the only explanation why they would do what you're describing and not create a technology-based class.


    again its just a tree with a few abilities
    ya take that and make 4 trees
    congrats you have a tree that can work for all classes
    That exists for absolutely no reason, and has no precedent in the history of WoW.

    now as for it being easier than a class...its true dude
    you dont have class auras
    you dont have a spellbook full of abilities
    you dont have to balance it against the other classes
    No, you have over 50 abilities that can't be removed, has to be balanced with any evolving abilities and talents within the classes, and are thematically different than the classes they're supposed to be attached to. Again, there's a reason why Blizzard has created 3 new WoW classes but have never done what you're describing here.

    it also fits if you do the whole "hey we use tech to advance our world and the heroes now know how to use it" and theres no reason for it to be removed
    you keep saying it should be but the only comparisons you have are things that were reliant on something outside of the world itself
    azerite gear empowered by the heart which we dont have storywise
    artifact weapons got drained
    covenants are in a different plane of existence
    those arent comparable to magic which requires years of training
    also the precedent of technology staying with the player is already in the game through engineering
    But it doesn't make sense for any WoW class to use technology when the majority of them are magic-based and have nothing in common with a tech theme. Why would a Druid use technology when they could simply learn a new spell? Wouldn't a Warlock prefer a new shadow ability over the ability to pilot a mech? It simply doesn't make sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    To answer Teriz, what you posted might further hint at the Tinker becoming playable sometime in the future. It does not, however, link it to a Light expansion, just like Legion tech didn't link the Tinker to a Demon expansion nor did elves' tech link the Tinker to an Arcane expansion, neither did Kyrians' robots link the Tinker to a Death expansion. Stop forcing it.
    Uh, who's talking about a Light expansion? I'm talking about a Lightbound expansion where we're invaded by a technologically advanced army that utilizes technology powered by the Naaru who just happen to be holy light-based entities. The commanders in said army uses those mechs in battle. Those mechs just happen to also be used by LF Draenei and operate exactly like the mechs Goblins and Gnomes use. Further, the Tinker concept revolves around piloting a mech into combat. Not to mention technology vs technology only makes sense.

    In short, the connection is rather obvious.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2021-06-10 at 08:08 PM.

  12. #252

  13. #253
    Are you serious, Teriz? You just described a Light expansion.
    Same can be said about Light. Using light to fight the Light. Why wasn't it fitting WoD, when we faced a tech-reliant army? or BfA, where War machines and weapons would be useful to counter each other's factions. The truth is, you can shoehorn the Tinker to whatever expansion features tech in it. It's, hardly, a convincing argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    What you're doing is akin to rolling a dice 3 times, each time it lands on an even number, and then you're concluding that the future rolls also have to land on an even number, "because it's a necessity".

    Again, you asserting "there is a necessity" that classes match expansions because of the three previous class introductions we had is just plain wrong. What you have is a correlation that in no way, shape or form proves causation.
    So, you believe it was merely by chance?
    Blizzard didn't orchestrate, plan and design it that way?
    It just magically happened the last three times?
    You're blind to reality and using this 'everything can happen' argument would lead us nowhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    so enchanting lets me summon a frost elemental and blink and summon frost comets
    or is that inscription??
    I meant that those are magical professions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post


    Mhmmmmm
    Mechanical Dragonlings have been with us since the game's inception.
    Last edited by username993720; 2021-06-10 at 08:15 PM.
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  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post


    Mhmmmmm
    Its a cash shop pet to go with the cash shop mount

  15. #255
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    I understand the confusion of people with this Class idea somehow must mean a profession idea, but you have in WoW, even NPC speech stating that a Tinker is more advanced than an Engineer. Most of the Tinkers in WoW have a connection to Engineering or Alchemy, they are the roots, while the Tinker as a Class, is the crown of the ever-growing development of some races.

    (Due to Allied races, Alliance currently has more races connected to the theme of Tinker)
    Gnome/Mechagnome
    Dwarf/Dark Iron
    Draenei/Lightforged
    Human
    Worgen

    (Vulpera could be added once they are permitted to rebuild their society)
    Goblin
    Undead
    Blood Elf
    Orc
    Nightborne
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  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post



    Mechanical Dragonlings have been with us since the game's inception.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    Its a cash shop pet to go with the cash shop mount
    Or maybe, JUST MAYBE, I'm not full of doo doo.

  17. #257
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Are you serious, Teriz? You just described a Light expansion.
    Same can be said about Light. Using light to fight the Light. Why wasn't it fitting WoD, when we faced a tech-reliant army? or BfA, where War machines and weapons would be useful to counter each other's factions. The truth is, you can shoehorn the Tinker to whatever expansion features tech in it. It's, hardly, a convincing argument.
    Because WoD took place right after MoP where Monks were introduced, and the majority of WoD took place on Draenor. Also the Iron Horde weren't as technologically advanced as the Lightbound are. Yrel invading Azeroth would mean that the entire expansion would take place on Azeroth proper. And like I said before, a Lightbound invasion has a chance to cause deep rifts within the Alliance.

    BFA was about a faction war, not a technologically advanced army invading Azeroth. It also came right after Legion where Demon Hunters were introduced.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2021-06-10 at 08:34 PM.

  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Or maybe, JUST MAYBE, I'm not full of doo doo.
    This remains to be seen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Because WoD took place right after MoP where Monks were introduced, and the majority of WoD took place on Draenor. Also the Iron Horde weren't as technologically advanced as the Lightbound are. Yrel invading Azeroth would mean that the entire expansion would take place on Azeroth proper. And like I said before, a Lightbound invasion has a chance to cause deep rifts within the Alliance.

    BFA was about a faction war, not a technologically advanced army invading Azeroth. It also came right after Legion where Demon Hunters were introduced.
    You do know Tinker technology doesn't have to be super advanced, right? Look at the Goblins, their creations are most often prone to fail and explode. That's what the Iron Horde was based around - Goblin tech. Are you suggesting Goblin tech is not part of the Tinker and that it is, all of the sudden, an alien light based tech class? because that's horseshit.

    As for BfA, much of the War campaigns involved using tech and explosives to confront the other faction. Whether it is in the cinematic trailer or the attack on Tiragarde sound. That's the nature of war - it sometimes require tech.

    Now pushing the Light theme and race into the Tinker, when it was always primarily about Gnomes and Goblins, and the fact that you were a staunch advocate against it yourself, is nothing but manipulation to fit your desires into current story.
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  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    It matches Draenei, the Nightborne, and Dwarves as well.
    Arguably, orcs could potentially fit as well. With the help of Goblins, they have repeatedly shown an attitude for making use of various tech. Rapid industrialization after the cataclysm, iron juggernaut in SoO, the Iron Horde in general, etc. There's also a few other examples like some of the Fel Orcs in The Blood Furnace using explosives and other fel infused tech to help create more fel orcs for instance.

    They may not always be the smartest, but orcs seemingly have an amazing aptitude towards learning how to use new technology and I would imagine you could make a good case for the smartest among them being able to invent or create more themselves.

  20. #260
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post

    You do know Tinker technology doesn't have to be super advanced, right? Look at the Goblins, their creations are most often prone to fail and explode. That's what the Iron Horde was based around - Goblin tech. Are you suggesting Goblin tech is not part of the Tinker and that it is, all of the sudden, an alien light based tech class? because that's horseshit.
    No, I'm suggesting that in the face of what is essentially an alien invasion, the races of Azeroth would combine their technology. In terns of gameplay and development, this makes sense, because you definitely have to incorporate Draenei (and possibly Nightborne) technology into a technology-based class. Essentially it would be an "all hands on deck" situation.

    Interestingly, we're kind of primed for such a situation since we have the Gnomes unified with Mechagnomes and Mechagon, we have LF Draenei and their naaru technology, we have a unified Dwarven contingent, we have access to Titan information via MOTHER, we have Titan blood as a potential fuel source (Azerite), and we have Nightborne and their magic-based technology. Finally, we have Goblins with a more stable faction leader (Gazlowe) who has a direct connection to Undermine, and is willing to work with Gnomes.

    Further, the point of WoD was not to have an army invade Azeroth and the various races dealing with an invading force disrupting the existing factions. The POINT of WoD was for us to explore an alternate Draenor and for us to meet the old leaders of the Orcs. The invasion was only an excuse for us to venture into AU Draenor.

    This is a different case altogether, because there's no reason for us to explore AU Draenor anymore, so the POINT of a Lightbound expansion is in fact the invasion of Azeroth itself.

    As for BfA, much of the War campaigns involved using tech and explosives to confront the other faction. Whether it is in the cinematic trailer or the attack on Tiragarde sound. That's the nature of war - it sometimes require tech.

    Now pushing the Light theme and race into the Tinker, when it was always primarily about Gnomes and Goblins, and the fact that you were a staunch advocate against it yourself, is nothing but manipulation to fit your desires into current story.
    Again, I didn't expand this concept, Blizzard did. As many on this lovely forum liked to remind me, we have multiple races who can not only pilot mechs, but build them as well. Since the general point of the Tinker concept is piloting a mech, and we have multiple races who have the ability to build and pilot mechs, it wouldn't make sense to release a Goblin/Gnome centric Tinker class. It makes far more sense to release a technology class that incorporates multiple facets of Azerothian technology. Additionally, it makes quite a bit of sense to reveal this class when we're dealing with a high technological threat.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by lazypeon100 View Post
    Arguably, orcs could potentially fit as well. With the help of Goblins, they have repeatedly shown an attitude for making use of various tech. Rapid industrialization after the cataclysm, iron juggernaut in SoO, the Iron Horde in general, etc. There's also a few other examples like some of the Fel Orcs in The Blood Furnace using explosives and other fel infused tech to help create more fel orcs for instance.

    They may not always be the smartest, but orcs seemingly have an amazing aptitude towards learning how to use new technology and I would imagine you could make a good case for the smartest among them being able to invent or create more themselves.
    Agreed. Additionally the Iron Reaver was piloted by an Orc.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2021-06-10 at 09:43 PM.

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