1. #541
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    And that's the problem, it would be double taxation.
    "Double taxation" is taxing the same transaction twice.

    Capital gains and income taxes are not double taxation.


  2. #542
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    Well, I don't hate rich people and even I can see the benefit of a Wealth tax, I mainly don't agree with it because of situations where you are stripping away what they earned and I believe that the wealth issue can be much better handled through inheritance taxes when they pass it on. I see the direct wealth taxes as largely just too ham fisted of an approach to handle the issue.

    Just tax it when they sell it or give it away, tax it when it pays dividends, make it where their is no statute of limitations for tax fraud and make them pay it back even if it is decades after their death (with interest), and make it where any publicly traded company must have labor make up at least 40% of the board so they have a say at the table.
    The benefits are that people would have more of other people's money to pay for the shit they want.

    The downside is that whole liberty thing.

    I think the current system of taxation upon sales and dividends is far superior.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    It isn't about deflecting obligation. If I were making that much, I'd owe more back, too. If you want to make sure I'm making that kind of income, we can discuss whether my attitude changes; that would make me a hypocrite, if it did.



    You haven't explained why that's a problem.
    But, you know yo9u'll never make that much, so you are staking a claim with no risk involved.

    That's like me saying if I were an Olympic swimmer, I should be taxed into oblivion.

    The problem is with liberty, and your attack on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    And because I almost missed this... You want to protect individual liberty of rich people at the cost of poor people's liberties. Those delivery drivers pissing in bottles? They have their liberties infringed upon BIG TIME. But that's ok, cos they're poor people. You don't care about them. But you're sitting here defending Bezos against me saying a wealth cap of 1 billion dollars would be an interesting idea to explore based on... what? Is he going to starve on a billion dollars? Doubt.

    Edit: Also, re-read the post about "Ownership obligates." I added some more context. Not that it would change your point of view, but I did my part.
    Nope, that's just you lying. I'm trying to protect everyone's liberty, not just my own.

    So, ban pissing in bottles. Push a law for that, instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    It's worse than that. His ridiculous ideas of cutting spending in social security, and Medicare/Medicaid, all confirm his hatred of poor, elderly, and the disabled... Of course perhaps he just wants to punish them fir being what they are.
    You mean where I called for stopping increasing spending for 5 years?

    Yeah, you were outraged at such ideas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    Here's a supplementary article:
    https://www.propublica.org/article/y...-a-billionaire

    This one focuses primarily on income and payroll taxes and how they can be avoided:
    "Large charitable donations reduce taxable income. Other tax-saving approaches are more arcane: everything from taking deductions for things like interest payments to various credits for business owners."
    "Using their vast holdings of stock, they can make large charitable grants. This achieves the twin feat of avoiding any tax on the stock’s growth while getting tax deductions for the full value."
    "The richest also can choose when to take income, matching up their deductions to reduce their bills."
    This last point is particularly telling. Can you choose when to take income? Very few people can with any regularity and you won't be getting multi-billion dollar lines of credit with your burgeoning stock value used as collateral.
    A lot of deductions don't exist because they're "fair". They exist because the wealthy are more able to change the tax codes to their liking.

    Finally, this thread really isn't about a wealth tax. Its a suggested remedy. It seems to work for Switzerland which has double the per capita billionaires the US has.

    If a wealth tax were to exist it would likely be similar to what the self-employed do during income tax time. The self-employed are expected to save up money because they normally don't pay out regular tax deductions. When income tax comes they use their savings to pay their taxes. Similarly the wealthy would be expected to save up for wealth tax time. This is commonly referred to as responsibility.
    So, make it so charitable donations are not tax deductible. Hell, get rid of all deductions and credits. Make it truly even. No more mortgage income deductions, no more Child tax credits.

    Or, do you like those loopholes?

  3. #543
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    The benefits are that people would have more of other people's money to pay for the shit they want.

    The downside is that whole liberty thing.

    I think the current system of taxation upon sales and dividends is far superior.

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    But, you know yo9u'll never make that much, so you are staking a claim with no risk involved.

    That's like me saying if I were an Olympic swimmer, I should be taxed into oblivion.

    The problem is with liberty, and your attack on it.

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    Nope, that's just you lying. I'm trying to protect everyone's liberty, not just my own.

    So, ban pissing in bottles. Push a law for that, instead.

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    You mean where I called for stopping increasing spending for 5 years?

    Yeah, you were outraged at such ideas.
    Curious how you are usually anti fascist while now defending a system that breeds inequality thus pushing more and more people to the extreme of the political spectrum.

  4. #544
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    "Double taxation" is taxing the same transaction twice.

    Capital gains and income taxes are not double taxation.
    It's taxing it twice on the same product, once while owning it, and once while selling it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Curious how you are usually anti fascist while now defending a system that breeds inequality thus pushing more and more people to the extreme of the political spectrum.
    That's because you're not paying attention.

    I'm against fascists, and supporting liberty and capitalism. Everything else is on you.

  5. #545
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    It's taxing it twice on the same product, once while owning it, and once while selling it.

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    That's because you're not paying attention.

    I'm against fascists, and supporting liberty and capitalism. Everything else is on you.
    Though capitalism as it is breeds inequality. I am being practical while you are being an ideologist.

  6. #546
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Though capitalism as it is breeds inequality. I am being practical while you are being an ideologist.
    If you feel so strongly about it, then stop participating in capitalism, and practice voluntary socialism.

  7. #547
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    If you feel so strongly about it, then stop participating in capitalism, and practice voluntary socialism.
    That is all you can come up with ? I guess you do not have an argument after all.

  8. #548
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    That is all you can come up with ? I guess you do not have an argument after all.
    I've laid it down, you're the one choosing to ignore it. You have pages and pages to work with. Let me know when you're caught up.

  9. #549
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    So, make it so charitable donations are not tax deductible. Hell, get rid of all deductions and credits. Make it truly even. No more mortgage income deductions, no more Child tax credits.

    Or, do you like those loopholes?
    You really like remedies that hurt poor people don’t you?

  10. #550
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Nope, that's just you lying. I'm trying to protect everyone's liberty, not just my own.

    So, ban pissing in bottles. Push a law for that, instead.
    Er, how can you claim to be for more liberty when you basically want to outlaw having a digestion? Do you think people WANT to pee in bottles? The fuck is wrong with you? "I have to pee in bottles cos I'm not allowed a bathroom break." - "Tough luck buddy, that's unhygienic, so now you're not allowed to pee in bottles."

    Dude, you are so against liberties. Your only angle seems to be maximum exploitations.
    Users with <20 posts and ignored shitposters are automatically invisible. Find out how to do that here and help clean up MMO-OT!
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  11. #551
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    You really like remedies that hurt poor people don’t you?
    He's like the anti robin hood. Crapping on the poor while making it out like these 25 are victims.

  12. #552
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    You really like remedies that hurt poor people don’t you?
    Nope, they still have the right to self-determination.

  13. #553
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Nope, they still have the right to self-determination.
    Sure, and clearly you should be ignored

  14. #554
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Er, how can you claim to be for more liberty when you basically want to outlaw having a digestion? Do you think people WANT to pee in bottles? The fuck is wrong with you? "I have to pee in bottles cos I'm not allowed a bathroom break." - "Tough luck buddy, that's unhygienic, so now you're not allowed to pee in bottles."

    Dude, you are so against liberties. Your only angle seems to be maximum exploitations.
    Nope, that's simply wrong, and I don't "basically" support that nonsense.

    If your problem is with working conditions, then pass those laws.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Sure, and clearly you should be ignored
    Then, why are you still here?

  15. #555
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Nope, that's simply wrong, and I don't "basically" support that nonsense.

    If your problem is with working conditions, then pass those laws.

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    Then, why are you still here?
    Still trying to have the last word, don't you? I guess, while being for child labor, you also have a childish behavior, funny or sad, I can't choose.

  16. #556
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Like I said, it's always easier to make someone else pay that "some."

    Bezos' wealth is almost all tied to his ownership. That's the fucking point. By attacking his wealth, you are going after his ownership.

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    Maybe he shouldn't have that much ownership? Maybe most of his company should be owned by the people that make the company run?

  17. #557
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Still trying to have the last word, don't you? I guess, while being for child labor, you also have a childish behavior, funny or sad, I can't choose.
    You're the one who refuses to take your own advice. No wonder people like you want socialism so damn badly. It's easier to just have the government take other people's shit, then bother to go earn it yourselves.

    And yes, every time you reply to me, you prove yourself to be a hypocrite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Maybe he shouldn't have that much ownership? Maybe most of his company should be owned by the people that make the company run?
    Maybe you should make a company like that, if you feel so strongly, instead of trying to do it to his.

  18. #558
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    You're the one who refuses to take your own advice. No wonder people like you want socialism so damn badly. It's easier to just have the government take other people's shit, then bother to go earn it yourselves.

    And yes, every time you reply to me, you prove yourself to be a hypocrite.
    I want to ignore what you are saying, but you keep replying to me. Stop reply to me, and I won't bother respond to you. See how simple it is. And I am quite happy that EU is not as infected as the US by the disease called "libertarism". Just a shame that one of the most powerful country in the world is as infected as it is.

  19. #559
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Nope, that's simply wrong, and I don't "basically" support that nonsense.

    If your problem is with working conditions, then pass those laws.
    I used it as an example to showcase why your weird notion that Amazon is somehow vital to society and important to keep is wrong. It's not. Amazon can go, we'll forget them in a week. That's how not important they are. You are overestimating the importance to maintain the current status quo. You are not open to even just explore new ideas. The current status quo and the resulting and ongoing widening of the wealth gap is not alright. It's an indicator that the system is not working right and society is in a very unhealthy place right now. And you defending a malfunctioning social system is a problem.
    Users with <20 posts and ignored shitposters are automatically invisible. Find out how to do that here and help clean up MMO-OT!
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  20. #560
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    I want to ignore what you are saying, but you keep replying to me. Stop reply to me, and I won't bother respond to you. See how simple it is. And I am quite happy that EU is not as infected as the US by the disease called "libertarism". Just a shame that one of the most powerful country in the world is as infected as it is.
    I have no problem responding to you, you are the one who said I should be ignored.

    It's nice to know that capitalism is alive and well in this country. I'm glad that these people pushing wealth taxes have no shot in hell of it coming to fruition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    I used it as an example to showcase why your weird notion that Amazon is somehow vital to society and important to keep is wrong. It's not. Amazon can go, we'll forget them in a week. That's how not important they are. You are overestimating the importance to maintain the current status quo. You are not open to even just explore new ideas. The current status quo and the resulting and ongoing widening of the wealth gap is not alright. It's an indicator that the system is not working right and society is in a very unhealthy place right now. And you defending a malfunctioning social system is a problem.
    I simply pointed out that they are useful, and they are. Billions of people find them useful.

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