1. #821
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Pretty sure I just did.
    Well, I don't really trust "the spirits."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I never said the capitalist model was "objectively wrong".

    You're attacking straw men again.
    No, you said I was objectively wrong, based on you not supporting my premise.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  2. #822
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Except this is your claim, so the burden of evidence is on you.

    I even said that would be nearly impossible to quantify, so it was a reckless statement. You have to understand, that's an argument you people use, not the other way around.
    That is horseshit.

    You know the answer won't be one you like so you are taking the coward's stance.

    There is literally no way you can tell me we have no idea who benefits more from say roads between Bezos and Joe Middleclass. How do you fucking sleep at night being that intellectually dishonest?
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  3. #823
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    That is horseshit.

    You know the answer won't be one you like so you are taking the coward's stance.

    There is literally know way you can tell me we cannot tell who benefits more from say roads between Bezos and Joe Middleclass. How do you fucking sleep at night being that intellectually dishonest?
    Once again, it's your fucking narrative.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  4. #824
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    That is horseshit.

    You know the answer won't be one you like so you are taking the coward's stance.

    There is literally no way you can tell me we have no idea who benefits more from say roads between Bezos and Joe Middleclass. How do you fucking sleep at night being that intellectually dishonest?
    This is almost every libertarian.

  5. #825
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    No, you said I was objectively wrong, based on you not supporting my premise.
    I've already explained to you that this was not the case. Why are you going back to repeat a mistake?

    I said you were objectively wrong because your argument presumed its conclusion as one of its base premises.

    I continued to say I also rejected that premise as it was a baseless statement of opinion which I rejected.


  6. #826
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    You pay property tax while owning a piece of real estate, and capital gains tax when you sell it.

    This is how taxes work. You're calling for a special exception, based on nothing.
    You in fact do not pay capital gains in the US when selling a home up to a certain amount. There’s a carve out that you can use once per 2 years if you’ve lived at that address for at least 2 of the last 5 years and at least the past year.

    Besides property taxes are related to the infrastructure and education provided by the state at that address. Can’t immediately think of what exactly the state is providing for my brokerage account.

    Come to think of it though I agree with you, capital gains taxes should be abolished in favor of an annualized tax on appreciation. I’d be down with that.

    Oh noes, socialism.

    Scary, people might actually enjoy civil liberty and an economy that exists to support them, not exploit them.
    I don’t feel particularly exploited, do you? If so why?

  7. #827
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Quantify it, I fucking dare you.

    Great, then do it.
    You can easily google data and research on just Walmart and how they benefit from welfare. This has been done for 20 years and you know it. Stop being a tool.

    Company X pays worker 10 dollars.
    Worker gets 5 dollars in welfare.
    Company x pays 0 tax. Did not have to help pay for welfare.
    Company x gets away with not having to pay a fair wage up to the welfare limits because welfare covers the difference that stops people from starving or being homeless (or at least some of it)
    Taxpayers have to pay for the welfare.
    Billionaire X avoids tax does not have to help pay for welfare.
    Company X sees increased profits from low labor cost.
    Company x sees increased profits from people spending welfare at their company they didn't help pay for.
    Billionaire/company X sees value of stock increase because his company does not have to pay taxes and benefits from welfare dollars without cost.
    Billionaire X does not pay taxes, thus his investments and wealth continue to grow at a faster pace then taxpayers because he never has a decrease in the amount because of taxes.

    etc etc etc.

    so who benefitted more from welfare?


    As for corporate subsidies and tax breaks, for a company that pays low to zero taxes, fully funded by taxpayers....i mean isn't its self explanatory who benefited more? Do you really need it spelled out?
    Buh Byeeeeeeeeeeee !!

  8. #828
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I've already explained to you that this was not the case. Why are you going back to repeat a mistake?

    I said you were objectively wrong because your argument presumed its conclusion as one of its base premises.

    I continued to say I also rejected that premise as it was a baseless statement of opinion which I rejected.
    I'm calling you out for what you deem to be objective truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  9. #829
    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    Anyone seen Queens Gambit? The 10 year old taking on the entire high school chess club all at once and checkmating them all in 1 hour 20 minutes, they accepting defeat while she goes and eats chocolate back at the orphanage? This thread is like the complete inverse of that.
    LOL, I like where you went with this... simple plot twist at the end did it, I was already getting into my "Wait, how is he defeating us..." mode.
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  10. #830
    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    You can easily google data and research on just Walmart and how they benefit from welfare. This has been done for 20 years and you know it. Stop being a tool.

    Company X pays worker 10 dollars.
    Worker gets 5 dollars in welfare.
    Company x pays 0 tax. Did not have to help pay for welfare.
    Company x gets away with not having to pay a fair wage up to the welfare limits because welfare covers the difference that stops people from starving or being homeless (or at least some of it)
    Taxpayers have to pay for the welfare.
    Billionaire X avoids tax does not have to help pay for welfare.
    Company X sees increased profits from low labor cost.
    Company x sees increased profits from people spending welfare at their company they didn't help pay for.
    Billionaire/company X sees value of stock increase because his company does not have to pay taxes and benefits from welfare dollars without cost.
    Billionaire X does not pay taxes, thus his investments and wealth continue to grow at a faster pace then taxpayers because he never has a decrease in the amount because of taxes.

    etc etc etc.

    so who benefitted more from welfare?


    As for corporate subsidies and tax breaks, for a company that pays low to zero taxes, fully funded by taxpayers....i mean isn't its self explanatory who benefited more? Do you really need it spelled out?
    That's not quantifying it, that's giving me random numbers that are not actually based on reality.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  11. #831
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    I'm calling you out for what you deem to be objective truth.
    And you're mixing up two separate points in doing so. As I have now explained for the third time.

    The objective failure of your argument was in how it begged the question, which had nothing to do with my opinions regarding said premise that you were begging.

    Edit: Maybe an example would help. If you argued "Everyone loves to each zucchini because of how much everyone loves eating zucchini", that fails because it begs the question; the conclusion and the one premise cited are the same.

    That I personally dislike zucchini and thus present an exception to that premise, that's a completely separate issue to the objective failures of the original statement.
    Last edited by Endus; 2021-06-09 at 08:55 PM.


  12. #832
    If you don’t think Bezos benefits more from the roads you need to get your head checked. His delivery drivers use them far more than any single person ever could.

  13. #833
    Quote Originally Posted by D3thray View Post
    Gotta love the anarcho-communists complaining while they sip soy lattes from Starbucks
    I'd just like to point out the irony that my last infraction not even a week ago was about me calling people commie shills. I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to report you just to make a point. Hope that doesn't bother you, but this mod team needs to demonstrate their impartiality to me now. :P
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  14. #834
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    And you're mixing up two separate points in doing so. As I have now explained for the third time.

    The objective failure of your argument was in how it begged the question, which had nothing to do with my opinions regarding said premise that you were begging.
    There's that word again, I'm enjoying this.

    All from a dude who doesn't believe in private ownership of any business.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    If you don’t think Bezos benefits more from the roads you need to get your head checked. His delivery drivers use them far more than any single person ever could.
    Once again, this is your guys' narrative, so let's see some actual quantifiable evidence.

    Considering how much they pay in taxes, I look forward to you providing it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  15. #835
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Nope, swing and a miss.

    I oppose corporatism just as much as I oppose socialism.
    That is so the opposite of what you're doing. You're posting very much from a pro-corporatism standpoint.
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  16. #836
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    That's why I have specifically called for small, slow changes. People seem to think I want to institute the fucking Roman Arenas tomorrow. Nah, I'd just like to cut some spending, slim the role of government, and perhaps look at regulations, and decide if they are actually necessary. After seeing the absurdity that is the Texas car regulations one would think it a good thing to do.
    Then libertarian ideals are just an thought experiment and you really are just a old fashioned conservative. There will be very little argument about wanting government to be agile and efficient. As such these tax policies are ludicrous although these assets are not cashed in they can still be borrowed against tax free and interest free because these guys own banks.

    Even if they are charged interest it is 3% or less basically a joke compared to what they should pay.

  17. #837
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    There's that word again, I'm enjoying this.

    All from a dude who doesn't believe in private ownership of any business.

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    Once again, this is your guys' narrative, so let's see some actual quantifiable evidence.

    Considering how much they pay in taxes, I look forward to you providing it.
    https://labornotes.org/2020/12/build...queeze-drivers

    There you go.

  18. #838
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    That is so the opposite of what you're doing. You're posting very much from a pro-corporatism standpoint.
    Nope, I support a corporations freedom to exist, and make profits.

    That's not corporatism, that's capitalism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  19. #839
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    LOL, I like where you went with this... simple plot twist at the end did it, I was already getting into my "Wait, how is he defeating us..." mode.
    Yea...unfortunately his imagination is claiming "checkmate progressives." Because this was never about convincing anyone...but about him feeding his own ego.

  20. #840
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    I'm opposed corporations using the government to create competitive advantages.

    I fully support capitalism.
    So, lobbyism needs to end? Do you have an idea what would happen to Wall St. and the rich if they didn't have a lobby in Washington? Man, it would be a massacre.
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