1. #1601
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    You asked for the math, the math was given. I proved he'd be forced to sell shares after less than two years. That would continue until he died.
    No, you're continuing to completely ignore that you claim people will have to sell "their company" yet still have yet to show any evidence of this. Selling some stock, especially in a company they didn't found/don't actually own isn't "selling their company".

    This is moving to, "They'll have to sell stock!" which like...yeah, that's the point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Of course you don't care, because this is all about your hate boner for the wealthy.
    Again, for a guy that spends a lot of time whining about people misrepresenting his positions/views you sure spend a lot of time misrepresenting others positions/views.

    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Selling shares, every fucking year... of the company he fucking founded.
    ...and? I still fail to see the big issue here that isn't, "He'll have to sell stock!" which you haven't established is an actual problem yet without resorting to slogans like "HIS LIBERTY!" which are completely devoid of meaning and value.

  2. #1602
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    sip

    So, does that mean you want to get rid of capital gains on stocks?
    Who said that? Literally nobody here said that. On the contrary. What I said is that I'd much rather see lower gains on stock values and higher earnings payments to shift some of the capital gains out of the stock market and into the rest of the economy.

    It's not effectively infinite, I want to see your evidence on that.
    It's a figure of speech for fuck sake.

    Yes, it's not technically infinite, but it's "infinite" enough for Bezos to buy a 500m yacht if he wants to without selling a single a share or even really pay anything in interest.
    Last edited by Mihalik; 2021-06-11 at 06:37 PM.

  3. #1603
    Quote Originally Posted by D3thray View Post
    Stocks aren’t real money. Stocks aren’t real money. Stocks aren’t real money. I’ll say it one more time for those in the back, stocks aren’t real money. They only have value when sold. They are merely potential and nothing else. Potential has value to some which is why banks will allow them as collateral but the inherently have zero value.

    Don’t believe me? Ask yourself what happens if everyone decided to sell all their stocks today. Do you think they just call up Wall Street and ask to withdraw their money? Firstly there isn’t enough real money in the entire US economy to cover all those stocks. Secondly if everyone is selling, no one is buying and they’re all worth zero dollars.

    Think of the stock market as a massively over leveraged bank. It only works if the vast majority of stocks aren’t being sold. And good luck going to the store to buy a sandwich with a stock certificate.
    Money has no value its just paper. If the US breaks down in a civil war and all states split the us dollar would be worth as much as a cuban peso. Hypothecical examples based in fiction are fun.

  4. #1604
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    No, you're continuing to completely ignore that you claim people will have to sell "their company" yet still have yet to show any evidence of this. Selling some stock, especially in a company they didn't found/don't actually own isn't "selling their company".

    This is moving to, "They'll have to sell stock!" which like...yeah, that's the point.



    Again, for a guy that spends a lot of time whining about people misrepresenting his positions/views you sure spend a lot of time misrepresenting others positions/views.



    ...and? I still fail to see the big issue here that isn't, "He'll have to sell stock!" which you haven't established is an actual problem yet without resorting to slogans like "HIS LIBERTY!" which are completely devoid of meaning and value.
    I literally provided the fucking math.

    So, you wanted to invoke Zuckerberg.

    He's worth $120 billion, with literally almost all of it in Facebook stock (over 90%). So, the exact same goes for him.

    Now, don't get me wrong, I don't think for one second that you give a shit about forcing this. I think this is exactly what you want. I also think it's fucking evil. I think you'd feel the same way for someone like Lynsi Snyder, who owns her entire company.

    It's not an issue to you, because the results of Warren's asstastic plan are a feature for you, not a sad consequence. Remember, you want to eat the rich, and forcing them to sell their companies (, or if you prefer, the companies they founded and built), is perfectly aligned with your evil plans.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Who said that? Literally nobody here said that. On the contrary. What I said is that I'd much rather see lower gains on stock values and higher earnings payments to shift some of the capital gains out of the stock market and into the rest of the economy.



    It's a figure of speech for fuck sake.

    Yes, it's not technically infinite, but it's "infinite" enough for Bezos to buy a 500m yacht if he wants to without selling a single a share or even really pay anything in interest.
    Great, then you want double taxation, which means you must want the same for all assets.

    Or, are you calling for double standards?

    Imagine having to give the federal government $60k when you sold your house... that would be fucking hilarious.

    You're literally whining that he's got collateral.
    Last edited by Machismo; 2021-06-11 at 06:51 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  5. #1605
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    I literally provided the fucking math.
    You writing some napkin math doesn't mean much, dude.

    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    He's worth $120 billion, with literally almost all of it in Facebook stock (over 90%). So, the exact same goes for him.
    Alright...and? He's already pledged to give away 99% of his stake over his lifetime but we'll ignore that.

    https://www.investopedia.com/article...ople-world.asp

    $3B in cash and another quarter billion in real estate. That's a lot to go through before he even has to consider liquidating some of his stock which he's already planned to liquidate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Remember, you want to eat the rich, and forcing them to sell their companies (, or if you prefer, the companies they founded and built), is perfectly aligned with your evil plans.
    In which you continue to claim people will be forced to sell companies but still have yet to actually show any real evidence that anyone who actually owns their publicly traded company (i.e. 50.01%+ of voting/total stock) would lose control over the company. You moving the goalposts to "founding/build" doesn't change anything, it's just backpedaling.

  6. #1606
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    You writing some napkin math doesn't mean much, dude.



    Alright...and? He's already pledged to give away 99% of his stake over his lifetime but we'll ignore that.

    https://www.investopedia.com/article...ople-world.asp

    $3B in cash and another quarter billion in real estate. That's a lot to go through before he even has to consider liquidating some of his stock which he's already planned to liquidate.



    In which you continue to claim people will be forced to sell companies but still have yet to actually show any real evidence that anyone who actually owns their publicly traded company (i.e. 50.01%+ of voting/total stock) would lose control over the company. You moving the goalposts to "founding/build" doesn't change anything, it's just backpedaling.
    I provided you with the fucking links to back up my fucking math.

    Can you refute the fucking math? Please, do so.

    So, let's look at Lynsi Snyder, she's worth $3.6 billion, with HER company amounting to over 80% of that. She is the sole owner of her company. She easily has 40 years of life left. So, would you like to do the math to figure out how long she has, before you want to force her to sell her company?

    Here's a hint, it's about 5-6 years, at best.
    Last edited by Machismo; 2021-06-11 at 06:57 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  7. #1607
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Once again, you're blaming me, because I'm taking them at their word, then blaming me, because I'm not using the words in the way they want to pretend they mean, instead of their actual meaning.

    This is you demanding I cater to their willful ignorance, and pretend that words mean different things, because they cannot be bothered to learn definitions.
    I'm not blaming you. I think you can't help it. I'm not talking about semantics. You don't grasp the fundamental issue here. You grasp on semantics, because that's the only thing that sounds remotely familiar to you. The concepts that these guys are talking about are as alien to you as me suggesting the sun won't rise tomorrow.

    I am not demanding anything. I am telling you that you are not part of this discussion until you acknowledge what people are saying and honestly respond to that, instead of bullshitting like you did for the past 80 pages. These guys are really trying not to get into partisanship bullshit, but you can't seem to leave the trench man, you can't even for a hypothetical discuss something that has nothing to do with partisanship. Because you are so indoctrinated, it's drilled so deep into your mind that everything is an agenda that you just can't fathom that someone might explore an idea just for the academic sense of having discussed it. To see if it might inspire other, more feasible ideas.

    The only thing offensive in this discussion is really how rude you are.
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  8. #1608
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    I'm not blaming you. I think you can't help it. I'm not talking about semantics. You don't grasp the fundamental issue here. You grasp on semantics, because that's the only thing that sounds remotely familiar to you. The concepts that these guys are talking about are as alien to you as me suggesting the sun won't rise tomorrow.

    I am not demanding anything. I am telling you that you are not part of this discussion until you acknowledge what people are saying and honestly respond to that, instead of bullshitting like you did for the past 80 pages. These guys are really trying not to get into partisanship bullshit, but you can't seem to leave the trench man, you can't even for a hypothetical discuss something that has nothing to do with partisanship. Because you are so indoctrinated, it's drilled so deep into your mind that everything is an agenda that you just can't fathom that someone might explore an idea just for the academic sense of having discussed it. To see if it might inspire other, more feasible ideas.

    The only thing offensive in this discussion is really how rude you are.
    It's a shame you want to force Lynsi Snyder to sell In&Out Burger.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  9. #1609
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    It's a shame you want to force Lynsi Snyder to sell In& Out Burger.
    And again, you are throwing out random buzzphrases that have no meaning. I mean, they have no meaning to me specifically, like none whatsoever, but they also have no meaning in general. You haven't read my text, you have not grasped the point of what I am saying. With no syllable are you acknowledging even the tiniest bit of it. All you see is a big block of text and then... I don't know, randomly throw something into the room in the hope that it's close enough to be considered a contribution to the conversation.

    If I talked to an ape, it would be the same result. I'm not saying you're an ape or that you have the intelligence of an ape, that's not what I'm saying at all. But I am saying talking to an ape would have the same net result.
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  10. #1610
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    And again, you are throwing out random buzzphrases that have no meaning. I mean, they have no meaning to me specifically, like none whatsoever, but they also have no meaning in general. You haven't read my text, you have not grasped the point of what I am saying. With no syllable are you acknowledging even the tiniest bit of it. All you see is a big block of text and then... I don't know, randomly throw something into the room in the hope that it's close enough to be considered a contribution to the conversation.

    If I talked to an ape, it would be the same result. I'm not saying you're an ape or that you have the intelligence of an ape, that's not what I'm saying at all. But I am saying talking to an ape would have the same net result.
    She's worth more than a billion, and you made it clear what you wat to happen.

    You'll notice, that I've stopped actually caring what you have to say, because you're literally defending lies and ignorance, and trying to blame me for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  11. #1611
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    She's worth more than a billion, and you made it clear what you wat to happen.
    And again... NO CONNECTION to what I said whatsoever. You read one sentence and that's it. After that your attention seems to falter and you think that was my main point. You're even fucking proving my main point by doing what you just did... lol
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  12. #1612
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    And again... NO CONNECTION to what I said whatsoever. You read one sentence and that's it. After that your attention seems to falter and you think that was my main point. You're even fucking proving my main point by doing what you just did... lol
    But, you did say you wanted to stop everyone at a billion. Did you not?

    She wins, game over... now she loses her company.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  13. #1613
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    TLDR
    *Unrealized gains are the devil.
    *Low interest loans are probably making things worse and the rich borrow a lot of money. Not all of it for useful purposes.
    *Yes, it’s worse than you think.
    *Yes, it’s really long.
    https://www.propublica.org/article/t...oid-income-tax
    It is because they are protected by a bullshit law.
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  14. #1614
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    So, let's look at Lynsi Snyder, she's worth $3.6 billion, with HER company amounting to over 80% of that.
    You mean the company she inherited from her father/uncle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    So, would you like to do the math to figure out how long she has, before you want to force her to sell her company?
    Selling shares isn't "selling the company", it's selling a small part of owning it. Let's do the math then shall we?

    If we presume a 6% tax on $3.6B, that's $216M the first year, so she's down to $3.4B assuming she somehow doesn't increase her wealth in any way, shape, or form (which is damned hard and nigh impossible). Year two would take that $3.4B and tax it at $204M, bringing it down to $3.2B, which would be taxed at $192M bringing it down to $3B (let's round up), which would be taxed at $180M (again we're rounding up here) so year 4 would leave her with a paltry $2.8B, year 5 would be taxed at $168M (let's round to $150 since we rounded up before), bringing her down to $2.75B, and in year 6 when you claim she'd have to "sell her company" she'd be taxed at $165M leaving her with a roughly $2.6B stake.

    Still well over 50% ownership and still fabulously wealthy despite having done nothing outside of inhereting a multi-billion dollar company that she's growing.

    And again, I'm being extremely charitable and presuming that she doesn't increase her wealth AT ALL in those 6 years, not by increased share value, not by outside investments, not by property increasing in value etc. etc.

    TLDR: Your math is bad.

  15. #1615
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    It is because they are protected by a bullshit law.
    What law, exactly?
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  16. #1616
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    But, you did say you wanted to stop everyone at a billion. Did you not?

    She wins, game over... now she loses her company.
    I'm not discussing politics with you anymore, sorry. Find someone else to play, I am watching football and while this has been amusing, I'm done entertaining you.
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  17. #1617
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    It's a shame you want to force Lynsi Snyder to sell In&Out Burger.
    She literally doesn't, check the math that you didn't apparently want to do before making this patently incorrect claim.

  18. #1618
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    What law, exactly?
    What is it now, no taxes on income, and apparently, investments do not count as that.. Honestly, I can't recall what it was called, I just know that these names hardly have to pay tax because, on paper, they don't pull enough in.
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  19. #1619
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    You mean the company she inherited from her father/uncle?



    Selling shares isn't "selling the company", it's selling a small part of owning it. Let's do the math then shall we?

    If we presume a 6% tax on $3.6B, that's $216M the first year, so she's down to $3.4B assuming she somehow doesn't increase her wealth in any way, shape, or form (which is damned hard and nigh impossible). Year two would take that $3.4B and tax it at $204M, bringing it down to $3.2B, which would be taxed at $192M bringing it down to $3B (let's round up), which would be taxed at $180M (again we're rounding up here) so year 4 would leave her with a paltry $2.8B, year 5 would be taxed at $168M (let's round to $150 since we rounded up before), bringing her down to $2.75B, and in year 6 when you claim she'd have to "sell her company" she'd be taxed at $165M leaving her with a roughly $2.6B stake.

    Still well over 50% ownership and still fabulously wealthy despite having done nothing outside of inhereting a multi-billion dollar company that she's growing.

    And again, I'm being extremely charitable and presuming that she doesn't increase her wealth AT ALL in those 6 years, not by increased share value, not by outside investments, not by property increasing in value etc. etc.

    TLDR: Your math is bad.
    So, is it her father's company? Nah, he died over 20 years ago. is it her grandfather's, because he founded it? Well, I would hope not, because that would have implications on your arguments about Zuck and Bezos.

    And in your math, it's in year 4 that she would be forced to sell part of her company, that she has a 100% stake in. It only took 4 years for you to tear it apart (drop below the market cap of the company).

    Given enough time, she wouldn't even have a majority stake in her privately-owned company.

    Again, that is fucking evil. It's rather disgusting that you are even trying to defend it.

    You do realize that increasing her wealthy doesn't change it, right? It means you tax her even more, and you take more of the company.... because that's where her wealth is tied to. The more successful she is, the faster you punish her.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    She literally doesn't, check the math that you didn't apparently want to do before making this patently incorrect claim.
    The math shows she would be forced to sell.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    I'm not discussing politics with you anymore, sorry. Find someone else to play, I am watching football and while this has been amusing, I'm done entertaining you.
    It's a shame so many people want to tear these companies apart.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    What is it now, no taxes on income, and apparently, investments do not count as that.. Honestly, I can't recall what it was called, I just know that these names hardly have to pay tax because, on paper, they don't pull enough in.
    So, what law?

    Stocks are taxed upon sale, as it has been for a long, long time.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    She literally doesn't, check the math that you didn't apparently want to do before making this patently incorrect claim.
    I want to to make sure you acknowledge that she will be forced to break up the sole-ownership of her company, and sell it to outsiders, because she's successful.

    Can you admit that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  20. #1620
    Us: Its wrong the ultra wealthy use stocks and other investments to dodge income tax. That should be changed so they end up with actual salaries that can be taxed at a rate commiserate with the average American.

    Trumpy Machisray: YOU CAN'T MAKE THEM PAY TAX ON THEIR STOCKS UNTIL THEY SELL THEM AHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

    US: Yes, we know, we are saying that is the problem, its a loophole that only the wealthiest of Americans can take advantage of to the degree they do.

    Trumpy Machisray: DEFINE LOOPHOLE AHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

    US: The loophole is taking stocks and stakes in other investments instead of a real paycheck to avoid paying income tax.

    Trumpy Machisray: YOU CAN'T MAKE THEM PAY TAX ON THEIR STOCKS UNTIL THEY SELL THEM AHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

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