1. #1821
    Screaming into the wind is fun for Trumpsters.

  2. #1822
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    "Machismo Taylor Greene" that's...yeah that's going to linger.
    It's too good to be buried by the 200 posts in this thread he does tomorrow. So signature time.

  3. #1823
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    I'm saying you're bitching that these people aren't being taxed on their stocks, then you clutch at pearls at the idea of stocks being taxed.
    English. Do you speak it?

    Progressive taxation. It's a thing.

    Meanwhile, this plan... right here:

    https://elizabethwarren.com/plans/ultra-millionaire-tax

    Would cause the sole owner of In&Out to start to sell part of her family-owned company, just to pay for the success of that family-owned company. In 17 years, she would lose majority share of that company she owned entirely, before Warren's plan were put in place. The simple reason is, she wouldn't have enough liquid assets to keep paying for the tax that Warren, and her ghoulish zealots want to force.

    So, how do you justify that?
    I don't actually need to. Because I know that's horsheshit. Let me clarify. I know that its exaggerated bullshit. The problem here is that you have Gish Galloped so far in this thread that I got to the junction where I'm no longer interested in actually going through that and finding out in which way your claims are complete horseshit. I actually might make an effort an look into it tomorrow.

    But so far, every single thing you've said in this thread has been abysmally stupid.

    I'll give you this much, you have managed to push out so much bullshit that you broke my will down.

    But even without making any effort. Has it occured to you that her company could be wildly overvalued if she doesn't actually have a decent enough income stream from which to meet her tax obligations? And perhaps if the company's value would be adjusted to something representing reality and if her company had actually decent earnings she wouldn't have any issues paying that tax?

    That has never occured to you, has it? Remember when in earlier post I told you about exaggerated stock valuations coupled with low earnings being incentivized by the current state of affairs?


    How do you tell yourself that such an action is acceptable?
    It wouldn't be. But I know for an absolute fact that you are either lying, misrepresenting something, or quoting some horrible dumbass cherry picked crap. Just as you did with the whole Mark Cuban shit.

    Furthermore, I'd like to point out, I never said that the wealth tax on stocks should be 6%. You are very fixated on that number for some reason. I've said repeatedly that perhaps that number needs adjusting. Stop attacking a strawman.
    Last edited by Mihalik; 2021-06-12 at 02:23 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    It doesnt destroy the land to bury styrofoam 25 feet below the ground
    Today Obama once again kneeled at the altar of environmental naziism and hurt this once great country. He has now banned all drilling in the Atlantic Ocean

  4. #1824
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  5. #1825
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    English. Do you speak it?

    Progressive taxation. It's a thing.

    I don't actually need to. Because I know that's horsheshit. Let me clarify. I know that its exaggerated bullshit. The problem here is that you have Gish Galloped so far in this thread that I got to the junction where I'm no longer interested in actually going through that and finding out in which way your claims are complete horseshit. I actually might make an effort an look into it tomorrow.

    But so far, every single thing you've said in this thread has been abysmally stupid.

    I'll give you this much, you have managed to push out so much bullshit that you broke my will down.


    It wouldn't be. But I know for an absolute fact that you are either lying, misrepresenting something, or quoting some horrible dumbass cherry picked crap. Just as you did with the whole Mark Cuban shit.
    Its odd how if you inherit your families house, like the sole owner of In&Out, you might have to sell it to afford property tax on the house that has been in the family for decades!!!!!

    But its not ok that you might have to sell "some" of your shares to pay taxes. Paying a tax on your home even though you haven't sold it yet seems to be A-OK.


    Besides the fact that the growth of wealth historically has always exceeded the amount of taxes expected/suggested under these plans so i am not sure how that poor sour owner of IN&Out would lose the company. Besides the fact that they could always borrow against the value of those shares at very insanely low interest rates and still not lose any shares/ownership in IN&Out.

    Also since they are a private company we do not even know what amount of "dividends/payouts" per year are paid out to the owners. Could be way more than enough to pay any tax bill.
    Buh Byeeeeeeeeeeee !!

  6. #1826
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    English. Do you speak it?

    Progressive taxation. It's a thing.



    I don't actually need to. Because I know that's horsheshit. Let me clarify. I know that its exaggerated bullshit. The problem here is that you have Gish Galloped so far in this thread that I got to the junction where I'm no longer interested in actually going through that and finding out in which way your claims are complete horseshit. I actually might make an effort an look into it tomorrow.

    But so far, every single thing you've said in this thread has been abysmally stupid.

    I'll give you this much, you have managed to push out so much bullshit that you broke my will down.

    But even without making any effort. Has it occured to you that her company could be wildly overvalued if she doesn't actually have a decent enough income stream from which to meet her tax obligations? And perhaps if the company's value would be adjusted to something representing reality and if her company had actually decent earnings she wouldn't have any issues paying that tax?

    That has never occured to you, has it? Remember when in earlier post I told you about exaggerated stock valuations coupled with low earnings being incentivized by the current state of affairs?




    It wouldn't be. But I know for an absolute fact that you are either lying, misrepresenting something, or quoting some horrible dumbass cherry picked crap. Just as you did with the whole Mark Cuban shit.

    Furthermore, I'd like to point out, I never said that the wealth tax on stocks should be 6%. You are very fixated on that number for some reason. I've said repeatedly that perhaps that number needs adjusting. Stop attacking a strawman.
    It's not exaggerated bullshit, i provided the fucking data and statistics. It's simply a matter of liquidity, specifically when most of these people are heavily linked to a single company. I pointed to Lynsi Snyder, because 80% of her net worth is with the company she owns, all by herself. If you take 4.3% from her total worth, per year, you will be cutting into that other 80%, which is her company, very quickly.

    That's simply a statistical reality.

    That is a shitty argument:

    "Clearly, her company isn't that good, if we push heavy taxes on her, and she cannot pay it without selling her company."

    Once again, that is a terrible fucking argument.

    Her company has great earnings, sales of $900 million a year, of which she takes a relatively small cut. So, if you are going to tax her more heavily, that means she either sells her company, or pays her employees less. Mind you, this is a company that is famous for being great to their employees.

    If you know for an absolute fact, then refute my evidence. Refute the data, and refute the math.

    She's worth $3.6 billion, the company is estimated at $3 billion. Show me how she manages to keep her company with Warren's plan, which is 6% after $1billion, and 2% between $50-950 million. Oh, and the math is already done, she would lose half her company within 17 years.

    Show me the numbers, how she can make it work. Mind you, she's 39 years old, so show me how she can stay the sole owner of her company for life.

    I fucking dare you.

    Warren's plan, for reference:

    https://elizabethwarren.com/plans/ultra-millionaire-tax
    Last edited by Machismo; 2021-06-12 at 02:37 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  7. #1827
    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    Its odd how if you inherit your families house, like the sole owner of In&Out, you might have to sell it to afford property tax on the house that has been in the family for decades!!!!!

    But its not ok that you might have to sell "some" of your shares to pay taxes. Paying a tax on your home even though you haven't sold it yet seems to be A-OK.


    Besides the fact that the growth of wealth historically has always exceeded the amount of taxes expected/suggested under these plans so i am not sure how that poor sour owner of IN&Out would lose the company. Besides the fact that they could always borrow against the value of those shares at very insanely low interest rates and still not lose any shares/ownership in IN&Out.

    Also since they are a private company we do not even know what amount of "dividends/payouts" per year are paid out to the owners. Could be way more than enough to pay any tax bill.
    Don't you understand that 14% of your yearly income instead of <1% equals 100% of your assets in the world of dipshits and wealth sycophancy?
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  8. #1828
    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    Its odd how if you inherit your families house, like the sole owner of In&Out, you might have to sell it to afford property tax on the house that has been in the family for decades!!!!!

    But its not ok that you might have to sell "some" of your shares to pay taxes. Paying a tax on your home even though you haven't sold it yet seems to be A-OK.


    Besides the fact that the growth of wealth historically has always exceeded the amount of taxes expected/suggested under these plans so i am not sure how that poor sour owner of IN&Out would lose the company. Besides the fact that they could always borrow against the value of those shares at very insanely low interest rates and still not lose any shares/ownership in IN&Out.

    Also since they are a private company we do not even know what amount of "dividends/payouts" per year are paid out to the owners. Could be way more than enough to pay any tax bill.
    You want to force someone to sell a company, because it's successful.

    It's not about wealth growth, which is what you people cannot fucking figure out. It's about liquidity. If they don't have the liquidity, because it's tied up in their burger chain, then you are taxing them into selling that company. There really is no way around it, the math simply isn't viable to do it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  9. #1829
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    One more time. I'm going to repeat this until you get it.



    Did something break inside your brain? Or you just chose not to acknowledge the existence of the problem?
    Loans are not free money. They have to be serviced. YOU HAVE TO PAY THEM BACK WITH REAL MONEY. Meaning you might sell some stocks and pay tax plus the interest on the loan. It’s not infinite free money you don’t understand how banking works. Yes you get to defer payment to a later date. I don’t see why when a billionaire takes out a loan it suddenly isn’t fair when everyone else does it all the time. You can take out a margin loan using your brokerage account too, nothing is stopping you.

  10. #1830
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    Don't you understand that 14% of your yearly income instead of <1% equals 100% of your assets in the world of dipshits and wealth sycophancy?
    You don't even know what income is. We literally demonstrated that, when you swore that net worth was income, and that Bezos was paid stocks as part of his salary.

    What are capital gains?

    Yeah, dipshits and sycophants...
    Last edited by Machismo; 2021-06-12 at 02:40 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  11. #1831
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    You don't even know wat income is.

    We literally demonstrated that, when you swore that net worth was income, and that Bezos was paid stocks as part of his salary.

    Yeah, dipshits and sycophants...
    The sun is getting real low big guy, go rest from carrying water for Billionaires all day.

  12. #1832
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Yep, you cannot help the ignorant.
    I can spam articles and essays and books by economists who think the wealth tax is the greatest idea since the wheel. Like Edward Wolff, Joseph Stiglitz, Krugman, Thomas Picketty and on the list goes.

    What is the point you are trying to make with that?

    Is it another Gish Gallop where I'd have to write an essay refuting or offering counter arguments to same fucking horrible arguments you've been making, just written by people who are eloquent enough to lobby on behalf of billionaires?
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    It doesnt destroy the land to bury styrofoam 25 feet below the ground
    Today Obama once again kneeled at the altar of environmental naziism and hurt this once great country. He has now banned all drilling in the Atlantic Ocean

  13. #1833
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    So, if you are going to tax her more heavily, that means she either sells her company, or pays her employees less.
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Show me the numbers, how she can make it work. Mind you, she's 39 years old, so show me how she can stay the sole owner of her company for life.
    Okay but do progressives even care if she has to sell ownership of her business? It seems like they don't care and what you're describing is actually a bonus to the people who support high taxes and wealth taxes.
    Let's spread optimism and defeat pessimism! (HumanProgress.org)

  14. #1834
    Quote Originally Posted by Iliena View Post
    The sun is getting real low big guy, go rest from carrying water for Billionaires all day.
    I've provided the data, can you refute any of it, or are you just going to shitpost?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    Okay but do progressives even care if she has to sell ownership of her business? It seems like they don't care and what you're describing is actually a bonus to the people who support high taxes and wealth taxes.
    That's the point, I just want them to finally admit the goal, out in the open. Just like you Trumpsters had your goal, to push your fascist, shitty legislation long after he's gone.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    I can spam articles and essays and books by economists who think the wealth tax is the greatest idea since the wheel. Like Edward Wolff, Joseph Stiglitz, Krugman, Thomas Picketty and on the list goes.

    What is the point you are trying to make with that?

    Is it another Gish Gallop where I'd have to write an essay refuting or offering counter arguments to same fucking horrible arguments you've been making, just written by people who are eloquent enough to lobby on behalf of billionaires?
    Have you crunched those numbers yet, and can show me how she gets to keep all her company?

    Nah, I didn't fucking think so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  15. #1835
    Quote Originally Posted by D3thray View Post
    Loans are not free money. They have to be serviced. YOU HAVE TO PAY THEM BACK WITH REAL MONEY. Meaning you might sell some stocks and pay tax plus the interest on the loan. It’s not infinite free money you don’t understand how banking works. Yes you get to defer payment to a later date. I don’t see why when a billionaire takes out a loan it suddenly isn’t fair when everyone else does it all the time. You can take out a margin loan using your brokerage account too, nothing is stopping you.
    It is actually free money. Because paying off that debt allows you to write off your earnings. The actual cost of borrowing is the interest rate. Which for people like Bezos is almost effectively zero.

    It's a tax dodge. For fuck sake.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Have you crunched those numbers yet, and can show me how she gets to keep all her company?

    Nah, I didn't fucking think so.
    I told you. I don't need to.

    But even without making any effort. Has it occured to you that her company could be wildly overvalued if she doesn't actually have a decent enough income stream from which to meet her tax obligations? And perhaps if the company's value would be adjusted to something representing reality and if her company had actually decent earnings she wouldn't have any issues paying that tax?

    That has never occured to you, has it? Remember when in earlier post I told you about exaggerated stock valuations coupled with low earnings being incentivized by the current state of affairs?
    English. Do you speak it?

    Also for emphasis because I know you'll fucking circle back to this one.

    The 6% number is not set in stone. It's just a strawman you like bashing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    It doesnt destroy the land to bury styrofoam 25 feet below the ground
    Today Obama once again kneeled at the altar of environmental naziism and hurt this once great country. He has now banned all drilling in the Atlantic Ocean

  16. #1836
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    It is actually free money. Because paying off that debt allows you to write off your earnings. The actual cost of borrowing is the interest rate. Which for people like Bezos is almost effectively zero.

    It's a tax dodge. For fuck sake.
    It's not earnings.

    For fuck sake.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    It is actually free money. Because paying off that debt allows you to write off your earnings. The actual cost of borrowing is the interest rate. Which for people like Bezos is almost effectively zero.

    It's a tax dodge. For fuck sake.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I told you. I don't need to.



    English. Do you speak it?
    No, it's because you fucking can't, which is the whole point.

    Fucking prove it, the numbers were handed to you. If you think it's overvalued, then fucking prove it.

    Oh, and about that 6%, Warren would like to disagree with you:

    "That’s why we need a tax on wealth. The Ultra-Millionaire Tax taxes the wealth of the richest Americans. It applies only to households with a net worth of $50 million or more—roughly the wealthiest 75,000 households, or the top 0.1%. Households would pay an annual 2% tax on every dollar of net worth above $50 million and a 6% tax on every dollar of net worth above $1 billion. Because wealth is so concentrated, this small tax on roughly 75,000 households will bring in $3.75 trillion in revenue over a ten-year period."
    Last edited by Machismo; 2021-06-12 at 02:49 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  17. #1837
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    So, if the goal is to tax that at 6%, which Warren's goal does state:

    https://elizabethwarren.com/plans/ultra-millionaire-tax
    Oh that’s so rich. I needed a good laugh. Elizabeth Warren says their tax is going to bring in 3.7 trillion… FROM WHERE? Is the government just going to print that money so everyone else has the 3.7 trillion to buy those stocks? Wait I’m dumb, they’re already doing that.

    That anyone thinks Elizabeth Warren is an intelligent person is laughable.

  18. #1838
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D3thray View Post
    Loans are not free money.
    They are when the interest rate is below inflation.

    Quote Originally Posted by D3thray View Post
    They have to be serviced. YOU HAVE TO PAY THEM BACK WITH REAL MONEY.
    Yes, which can be done with another sub-inflation loan and keep that going indefinitely, while your stock keeps growing and is never actually sold and thus never legally realized.

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
    What the world has learned is that America is never more than one election away from losing its goddamned mind
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Tayler
    Political conservatism is just atavism with extra syllables and a necktie.
    Me on Elite : Dangerous | My WoW characters

  19. #1839
    Quote Originally Posted by D3thray View Post
    Oh that’s so rich. I needed a good laugh. Elizabeth Warren says their tax is going to bring in 3.7 trillion… FROM WHERE? Is the government just going to print that money so everyone else has the 3.7 trillion to buy those stocks? Wait I’m dumb, they’re already doing that.

    That anyone thinks Elizabeth Warren is an intelligent person is laughable.
    The amount she gets will be tough to calculate, because... people will do whatever they can to hide money. They will deliberately cause their own stocks to crash, to avoid that payment. They will move assets overseas, and will even fucking leave the country. If people thought a high income tax was stifling, a wealth tax like this, would strangle thousands of companies.

    People still don't get it, this means liquidating assets, and selling companies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  20. #1840
    Quote Originally Posted by Kryctos View Post
    Money has no value its just paper. If the US breaks down in a civil war and all states split the us dollar would be worth as much as a cuban peso. Hypothecical examples based in fiction are fun.
    Yes that’s the definition of a fiat currency. Good job. When Amazon stocks start being accepted as currency let me know.

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