1. #1821
    Quote Originally Posted by Iliena View Post
    The sun is getting real low big guy, go rest from carrying water for Billionaires all day.
    I've provided the data, can you refute any of it, or are you just going to shitpost?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    Okay but do progressives even care if she has to sell ownership of her business? It seems like they don't care and what you're describing is actually a bonus to the people who support high taxes and wealth taxes.
    That's the point, I just want them to finally admit the goal, out in the open. Just like you Trumpsters had your goal, to push your fascist, shitty legislation long after he's gone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    I can spam articles and essays and books by economists who think the wealth tax is the greatest idea since the wheel. Like Edward Wolff, Joseph Stiglitz, Krugman, Thomas Picketty and on the list goes.

    What is the point you are trying to make with that?

    Is it another Gish Gallop where I'd have to write an essay refuting or offering counter arguments to same fucking horrible arguments you've been making, just written by people who are eloquent enough to lobby on behalf of billionaires?
    Have you crunched those numbers yet, and can show me how she gets to keep all her company?

    Nah, I didn't fucking think so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  2. #1822
    Quote Originally Posted by D3thray View Post
    Loans are not free money. They have to be serviced. YOU HAVE TO PAY THEM BACK WITH REAL MONEY. Meaning you might sell some stocks and pay tax plus the interest on the loan. It’s not infinite free money you don’t understand how banking works. Yes you get to defer payment to a later date. I don’t see why when a billionaire takes out a loan it suddenly isn’t fair when everyone else does it all the time. You can take out a margin loan using your brokerage account too, nothing is stopping you.
    It is actually free money. Because paying off that debt allows you to write off your earnings. The actual cost of borrowing is the interest rate. Which for people like Bezos is almost effectively zero.

    It's a tax dodge. For fuck sake.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Have you crunched those numbers yet, and can show me how she gets to keep all her company?

    Nah, I didn't fucking think so.
    I told you. I don't need to.

    But even without making any effort. Has it occured to you that her company could be wildly overvalued if she doesn't actually have a decent enough income stream from which to meet her tax obligations? And perhaps if the company's value would be adjusted to something representing reality and if her company had actually decent earnings she wouldn't have any issues paying that tax?

    That has never occured to you, has it? Remember when in earlier post I told you about exaggerated stock valuations coupled with low earnings being incentivized by the current state of affairs?
    English. Do you speak it?

    Also for emphasis because I know you'll fucking circle back to this one.

    The 6% number is not set in stone. It's just a strawman you like bashing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    It doesnt destroy the land to bury styrofoam 25 feet below the ground
    Today Obama once again kneeled at the altar of environmental naziism and hurt this once great country. He has now banned all drilling in the Atlantic Ocean

  3. #1823
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    It is actually free money. Because paying off that debt allows you to write off your earnings. The actual cost of borrowing is the interest rate. Which for people like Bezos is almost effectively zero.

    It's a tax dodge. For fuck sake.
    It's not earnings.

    For fuck sake.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    It is actually free money. Because paying off that debt allows you to write off your earnings. The actual cost of borrowing is the interest rate. Which for people like Bezos is almost effectively zero.

    It's a tax dodge. For fuck sake.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I told you. I don't need to.



    English. Do you speak it?
    No, it's because you fucking can't, which is the whole point.

    Fucking prove it, the numbers were handed to you. If you think it's overvalued, then fucking prove it.

    Oh, and about that 6%, Warren would like to disagree with you:

    "That’s why we need a tax on wealth. The Ultra-Millionaire Tax taxes the wealth of the richest Americans. It applies only to households with a net worth of $50 million or more—roughly the wealthiest 75,000 households, or the top 0.1%. Households would pay an annual 2% tax on every dollar of net worth above $50 million and a 6% tax on every dollar of net worth above $1 billion. Because wealth is so concentrated, this small tax on roughly 75,000 households will bring in $3.75 trillion in revenue over a ten-year period."
    Last edited by Machismo; 2021-06-12 at 02:49 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  4. #1824
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    So, if the goal is to tax that at 6%, which Warren's goal does state:

    https://elizabethwarren.com/plans/ultra-millionaire-tax
    Oh that’s so rich. I needed a good laugh. Elizabeth Warren says their tax is going to bring in 3.7 trillion… FROM WHERE? Is the government just going to print that money so everyone else has the 3.7 trillion to buy those stocks? Wait I’m dumb, they’re already doing that.

    That anyone thinks Elizabeth Warren is an intelligent person is laughable.

  5. #1825
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D3thray View Post
    Loans are not free money.
    They are when the interest rate is below inflation.

    Quote Originally Posted by D3thray View Post
    They have to be serviced. YOU HAVE TO PAY THEM BACK WITH REAL MONEY.
    Yes, which can be done with another sub-inflation loan and keep that going indefinitely, while your stock keeps growing and is never actually sold and thus never legally realized.

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
    What the world has learned is that America is never more than one election away from losing its goddamned mind
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Tayler
    Political conservatism is just atavism with extra syllables and a necktie.
    Me on Elite : Dangerous | My WoW characters

  6. #1826
    Quote Originally Posted by D3thray View Post
    Oh that’s so rich. I needed a good laugh. Elizabeth Warren says their tax is going to bring in 3.7 trillion… FROM WHERE? Is the government just going to print that money so everyone else has the 3.7 trillion to buy those stocks? Wait I’m dumb, they’re already doing that.

    That anyone thinks Elizabeth Warren is an intelligent person is laughable.
    The amount she gets will be tough to calculate, because... people will do whatever they can to hide money. They will deliberately cause their own stocks to crash, to avoid that payment. They will move assets overseas, and will even fucking leave the country. If people thought a high income tax was stifling, a wealth tax like this, would strangle thousands of companies.

    People still don't get it, this means liquidating assets, and selling companies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  7. #1827
    Quote Originally Posted by Kryctos View Post
    Money has no value its just paper. If the US breaks down in a civil war and all states split the us dollar would be worth as much as a cuban peso. Hypothecical examples based in fiction are fun.
    Yes that’s the definition of a fiat currency. Good job. When Amazon stocks start being accepted as currency let me know.

  8. #1828
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    They are when the interest rate is below inflation.



    Yes, which can be done with another sub-inflation loan and keep that going indefinitely, while your stock keeps growing and is never actually sold and thus never legally realized.
    You still have to pay back the loan, dude. You have to get the money... from somewhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  9. #1829
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    I've provided the data, can you refute any of it, or are you just going to shitpost?
    Hey I'm not the one having a online mental breakdown about it, #top1%wannabe

  10. #1830
    Quote Originally Posted by Iliena View Post
    Hey I'm not the one having a online mental breakdown about it, #top1%wannabe
    I'll take that as a no.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  11. #1831
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    It's not earnings.

    For fuck sake.
    Or you stupid or what? I was discussing on how you can take earnings to pay off debt, and pay no taxes in the process. You do understand that people get earnings on their shares independently from selling them, right?

    No, it's because you fucking can't, which is the whole point.

    Fucking prove it, the numbers were handed to you. If you think it's overvalued, then fucking prove it.
    I don't need to you dipshit. DO YOU SPEAK ENGLISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    THE ENTIRE FUCKING STOCK MARKET IS WILDLY OVERVALUED.

    Depending on who does the analysis they ballpark the overvaluation rate anywhere between 120 to 190%.

    Regarding In and Out...I can't even find a fucking up to date market valuation or revenue report. So I don't know where the fuck you pulled your horseshit napkin math from.

    I can't deal with this much retardation. I'm gonna get banned.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    It doesnt destroy the land to bury styrofoam 25 feet below the ground
    Today Obama once again kneeled at the altar of environmental naziism and hurt this once great country. He has now banned all drilling in the Atlantic Ocean

  12. #1832
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Or you stupid or what? I was discussing on how you can take earnings to pay off debt, and pay no taxes in the process.



    I don't need to you dipshit. DO YOU SPEAK ENGLISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    THE ENTIRE FUCKING STOCK MARKET IS WILDLY OVERVALUED.

    Depending on who does the analysis they ballpark the overvaluation rate anywhere between 120 to 190%.

    Regarding In and Out...I can't even find a fucking up to date market valuation or revenue report. So I don't know where the fuck you pulled your horseshit napkin math from.

    I can't deal with this much retardation. I'm gonna get banned.
    Yes, you can take out loans, pay them back and not pay taxes.

    I pointed to a specific company, gave specific numbers. If you want to push the narrative that it's overvalued, then fucking prove it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  13. #1833
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Yes, you can take out loans, pay them back and not pay taxes.
    Yes, and that's the problem, that they took that simple economic transaction and turned into a TAX DODGE.

    I pointed to a specific company, gave specific numbers. If you want to push the narrative that it's overvalued, then fucking prove it.
    Relink that shit. I'm not going through 9000 pages of your hogwash to find it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    It doesnt destroy the land to bury styrofoam 25 feet below the ground
    Today Obama once again kneeled at the altar of environmental naziism and hurt this once great country. He has now banned all drilling in the Atlantic Ocean

  14. #1834
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    They are when the interest rate is below inflation.



    Yes, which can be done with another sub-inflation loan and keep that going indefinitely, while your stock keeps growing and is never actually sold and thus never legally realized.
    Yeah that’s what you’re betting on with stocks. Fortunately everyone else can do this too. If I used that asinine ‘true tax rate’ calculation that propublica said they spent months working on, I paid an effective 2.6% tax rate last year. I am not a millionaire. That piece is specifically designed to get the useful idiots on board. Just because you choose not to play the game doesn’t mean it isn’t fair. You’re much more likely to get me on board with a UBI than the idea that by merely owning stocks and taking loans that billionaires are tax dodgers. They clearly pay tax. A whole heck of a lot more than me. As it should be.

    Oh and by the way, you can blame the Fed for those super low interest rate loans. Ask Machismo what he thinks of the Fed.

  15. #1835
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Relink that shit. I'm not going through 9000 pages of your hogwash to find it.
    Nah, fuck that.

    I have gone out of my way to provide evidence.

    I'll stick with my evidence, you stick with your lack of evidence.

    "But, it's like earnings!!!"

    Newp.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  16. #1836
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Nah, fuck that.

    I have gone out of my way to provide evidence.

    I'll stick with my evidence, you stick with your lack of evidence.

    "But, it's like earnings!!!"

    Newp.
    What evidence? Come on. Give me that "evidence". Come on. Do it. Do it.

    Or stfu and gtfo.

    You are mentally ill dude.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    It doesnt destroy the land to bury styrofoam 25 feet below the ground
    Today Obama once again kneeled at the altar of environmental naziism and hurt this once great country. He has now banned all drilling in the Atlantic Ocean

  17. #1837
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    What evidence? Come on. Give me that "evidence". Come on. Do it. Do it.

    Or stfu and gtfo.

    You are mentally ill dude.
    Asked, answered, and fucking provided.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  18. #1838
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    The amount she gets will be tough to calculate, because... people will do whatever they can to hide money. They will deliberately cause their own stocks to crash, to avoid that payment. They will move assets overseas, and will even fucking leave the country. If people thought a high income tax was stifling, a wealth tax like this, would strangle thousands of companies.

    People still don't get it, this means liquidating assets, and selling companies.
    Preach brother. I don’t think most people realize how much our economy walks the razors edge while spinning plates and jumping thru flaming hoops over a pit of sharks.

    You want to see the next Great Depression? Enact galaxy brain Elizabeth Warren’s tax.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Yes, and that's the problem, that they took that simple economic transaction and turned into a TAX DODGE.



    Relink that shit. I'm not going through 9000 pages of your hogwash to find it.
    Are you a homeowner? I’m betting you’re not a homeowner. Did you know you get to deduct your mortgage payments from your income tax bill? A mortgage is a loan you see. And you get to deduct it just like the billionaires. You’re calling homeowners tax dodgers in effect.

  19. #1839
    ROFL Yeah you know your arguments are shit when the only ones agreeing were so dumb they voted Trump.

  20. #1840
    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    ROFL Yeah you know your arguments are shit when the only ones agreeing were so dumb they voted Trump.
    And one of those rallied along side Sulla in support of Roy Moore.
    “You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it.”― Malcolm X

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