1. #1861
    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    I don't see him being the only one in agreement against you. You got anyone who's agreeing with you who ain't a trumpster? yeah... this is what you got to show with how you've essentially the entirety of the last 3 days
    Once again, I don't care if you agree with me. I have no problem being the only one who is right.

  2. #1862
    Quote Originally Posted by Iliena View Post
    But yet you have to proved evidence to your ability to use a keyboard in a rational manner, seeing you cant understand the basic concept that paying taxes is the basic cost of doing business in the country you live in, people who don't pay there fair share by bypassing the taxation system are leaches who push up the percentage everybody else has to pay up including yourself,
    So there’s this concept called proportionality. Pretty much anyone whose liquidity is on the same par as those stated in the original article paid a similar tax rate if you do the same calculations, myself included. That we choose to participate in the stock market and not spend our money frivolously does not make us tax evaders. Propublica are lying or incompetent or both when they say billionaires take advantage of the system in a way others cannot.

    I’ll also add that due to the inflationary policy pursued by the US government, the ONLY way to get ahead is the stock market for most people realistically speaking due to its naturally protecting effects against inflation. You WILL fall behind if you don’t play the game and because of the way exponential functions work even a little bit saved at a time makes a big difference in the long run.

    Beyond the scope of this debate I really encourage anyone to put a little money in when you can.
    Last edited by D3thray; 2021-06-12 at 03:35 AM.

  3. #1863
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Once again, I don't care if you agree with me. I have no problem being the only one who is right.
    Sure kid. Yesterday was close to 400 posts, you told me you didn't care if people agree with you. now today it's well 600. The lies one tells themselves when they care in a way so unhealthy that they are now MTG.

  4. #1864
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    California
    Posts
    20,414
    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    Don't care what a Trumpster thinks. /shrug
    Shame on you. If a Trumpster says something then you should take it seriously.
    Let's spread optimism and defeat pessimism! (HumanProgress.org)

  5. #1865
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    Shame on you. If a Trumpster says something then you should take it seriously.
    I take clowns as serious as they merit

  6. #1866
    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    Sure kid. Yesterday was close to 400 posts, you told me you didn't care if people agree with you. now today it's well 600. The lies one tells themselves when they care in a way so unhealthy that they are now MTG.
    Well, I'm the guy with the evidence.

    I can't make you read it.

  7. #1867
    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    I don't see him being the only one in agreement against you. You got anyone who's agreeing with you who ain't a trumpster? yeah... this is what you got to show with how you've essentially the entirety of the last 3 days

    - - - Updated - - -



    Don't care what a Trumpster thinks. /shrug
    Everyone agrees with you so therefore you’re right eh? Ever heard of a bandwagon?

  8. #1868
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Well, I'm the guy with the evidence.

    I can't make you read it.
    Already gave you the evidence, twice.

    I can't make you read it, but I can make you reply because you are unhealthy af and can't simply agree to disagree and ya know do literally anything else with your life.

  9. #1869
    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    Already gave you the evidence, twice.

    I can't make you read it, but I can make you reply because you are unhealthy af and can't simply agree to disagree and ya know do literally anything else with your life.
    Nope, try again.

    Link one source, I dare you.

  10. #1870
    Quote Originally Posted by D3thray View Post
    Everyone agrees with you so therefore you’re right eh? Ever heard of a bandwagon?
    No, but if I believed something that only clowns believed, I would seriously reconsider if I'm right. But even if I'm not right about some things, Trumpsters never are.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Nope, try again.

    Link one source, I dare you.
    I relinked it a page or two ago. As I said, can't make you read, but can make you reply, watch me.

  11. #1871
    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    No, but if I believed something that only clowns believed, I would seriously reconsider if I'm right. But even if I'm not right about some things, Trumpsters never are.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I relinked it a page or two ago. As I said, can't make you read, but can make you reply, watch me.
    You never cited any source, other than your own words.

    Just one website, I dare you.

  12. #1872
    ROFL . But seriously, can a mod close this thread, it is so unhealthy for dude.

  13. #1873
    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    ROFL . But seriously, can a mod close this thread, it is so unhealthy for dude.
    I have provided numerous sources and statistical data. What did you provide?

    You do realize you are the one acting like a Trumpster, right?

  14. #1874
    Quote Originally Posted by D3thray View Post
    So there’s this concept called proportionality. Pretty much anyone whose liquidity is on the same par as those stated in the original article paid a similar tax rate if you do the same calculations, myself included. That we choose to participate in the stock market and not spend our money frivolously does not make us tax evaders. Propublica are lying or incompetent or both when they say billionaires take advantage of the system in a way others cannot.

    I’ll also add that due to the inflationary policy pursued by the US government, the ONLY way to get ahead is the stock market for most people realistically speaking due to its naturally protecting effects against inflation. You WILL fall behind if you don’t play the game and because of the way exponential functions work even a little bit saved at a time makes a big difference in the long run.

    Beyond the scope of this debate I really encourage anyone to put a little money in when you can.
    Oh right so if you avoid paying taxes now you will get ahead in the long run?
    It sounds a bit like a pyramid scheme to me tbh, which is fine and dandy for those at the top.

  15. #1875
    MY GOD what will these billionares do...

    The Warren wealth tax is far more punitive than the ad suggests, even allowing for considerable political puffery. It's not 2 cents or even 2 percent. Warren's latest version of the wealth tax is a 2 percent tax on wealth between $50 million and $1 billion and a 6 percent tax on wealth over $1 billion. The tax is cumulative and would be applied year after year, slowly whittling down existing fortunes and preventing future megafortunes from being created. The New York Times notes that had the Warren wealth tax already been in place for decades, Jeff Bezos, the world's richest person, would have been worth $50 billion last year instead of $160 billion, Bill Gates $14 billion in 2018 instead of $97 billion


    ...with just 50 billion and 97 billion.


    i wonder what my worth would be if my "assets" were not taxed 5600.00 a year... even though i have never sold them. And the 250 ish a year on the other "asset" that i have not sold.... hmmmm

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    You want to force someone to sell a company, because it's successful.

    It's not about wealth growth, which is what you people cannot fucking figure out. It's about liquidity. If they don't have the liquidity, because it's tied up in their burger chain, then you are taxing them into selling that company. There really is no way around it, the math simply isn't viable to do it.
    You want to force me to sell my families house because we were successful?

    Have you still not read the first post and the corresponding article. These people have all the liquidity in the world. They do not have to sell one fucking share to raise millions of dollars at very low interest rates you and i would never qualify for.

    They can then slowly pay that back with income, gains, interest, dividends, etc etc all the while enjoying a 1-3-5-10-20-200% increase in their assets even after the interest is deducted.
    Buh Byeeeeeeeeeeee !!

  16. #1876
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    You can.

    But there is a massive difference between "you can deduct expenses mandatory for your job, that your job makes you pay for" vs "CEOs get paid in stock and properties so they don't pay taxes".
    If you get paid in stock and properties, you absolutely have to pay taxes on it. Normal income tax, the same as on cash. Plenty of people who aren't billionaires get paid at least part of their salary in stock, e.g. pretty much everyone working in Silicon Valley. If salary is taxed at X%, and capital gains are taxed at Y%, you get taxed at X% at the moment you receive the stock (the entire value; regardless of how much it was worth at the time you were promised the stock), and then at Y% on the difference between the value at the time you received the stock and the time you sell it. If you know a legal way in which I can stop paying 51% tax on the stock part of my salary, I'd love to know, though.

    Unless you mean already holding stock that increases in value, i.e. not getting paid at all. In this case, you pay capital gains tax when you actually sell that stock. If you never sell the stock, you don't pay the tax, but if you never sell the stock, you also never get any cash and it could be monopoly money.

    Quote Originally Posted by D3thray View Post
    So there’s this concept called proportionality. Pretty much anyone whose liquidity is on the same par as those stated in the original article paid a similar tax rate if you do the same calculations, myself included. That we choose to participate in the stock market and not spend our money frivolously does not make us tax evaders. Propublica are lying or incompetent or both when they say billionaires take advantage of the system in a way others cannot.

    I’ll also add that due to the inflationary policy pursued by the US government, the ONLY way to get ahead is the stock market for most people realistically speaking due to its naturally protecting effects against inflation. You WILL fall behind if you don’t play the game and because of the way exponential functions work even a little bit saved at a time makes a big difference in the long run.

    Beyond the scope of this debate I really encourage anyone to put a little money in when you can.
    The fact that so many people don't invest their money and just let it sit in their bank accounts is the worst tragedy. Taking the average savings rate (7% of disposable income pre-COVID; increased during COVID, but that's a temporary anomaly) and the median household income in US ($68,703 in 2019), you get around $400 monthly savings. If you put that into the stock market and just let it sit there in a S&P500 fund, you'll have a nice inflation-adjusted $1,000,000 in 40 years (actually slightly more than that). Alternatively, if you just let it sit in the bank account, you'll end up with inflation-adjusted $54,523 ($192,000 pre-inflation). Slightly more if you put it into a shitty deposit, like the 0.5%/year that my bank is trying to sell to me.
    Of course, if you start trying to time the market, you'll just end up buying high and selling low, and losing most of your money.

  17. #1877
    Quote Originally Posted by Noctiphobia View Post
    The fact that so many people don't invest their money and just let it sit in their bank accounts is the worst tragedy. Taking the average savings rate (7% of disposable income pre-COVID; increased during COVID, but that's a temporary anomaly) and the median household income in US ($68,703 in 2019), you get around $400 monthly savings. If you put that into the stock market and just let it sit there in a S&P500 fund, you'll have a nice inflation-adjusted $1,000,000 in 40 years (actually slightly more than that). Alternatively, if you just let it sit in the bank account, you'll end up with inflation-adjusted $54,523 ($192,000 pre-inflation). Slightly more if you put it into a shitty deposit, like the 0.5%/year that my bank is trying to sell to me.
    Of course, if you start trying to time the market, you'll just end up buying high and selling low, and losing most of your money.
    So, while I like the way you're thinking... here's what breaks your argument. Wall St.

    As sure as a swiss clock, every 10-20 years, Wall St. comes along and fucks all your savings. Sure, you say, but the smart guy leaves his money in because Wall St. recuperates. Yes, but only at the mercy of the Government. So, what happens the next time? I guess it'll depend on the Government to bail Wall St. out again, won't it? If you're part of the package that does get bailed out, and not the part that people just let go bust, cos it's cheaper to take the hit than make it work...

    Wall St. is full of criminals habitually embezzling people's savings for their own profit. Or whatever it is they're doing. How many billions of small families incomes have to be destroyed before people like you realise that it's not that easy? Oh put it all in Wall St. They'll make you rich!

    There is no working get rich quick scheme that doesn't reek of fraud. It's as simple as that.
    Users with <20 posts and ignored shitposters are automatically invisible. Find out how to do that here and help clean up MMO-OT!
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  18. #1878
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    So, while I like the way you're thinking... here's what breaks your argument. Wall St.

    As sure as a swiss clock, every 10-20 years, Wall St. comes along and fucks all your savings. Sure, you say, but the smart guy leaves his money in because Wall St. recuperates. Yes, but only at the mercy of the Government. So, what happens the next time? I guess it'll depend on the Government to bail Wall St. out again, won't it? If you're part of the package that does get bailed out, and not the part that people just let go bust, cos it's cheaper to take the hit than make it work...

    Wall St. is full of criminals habitually embezzling people's savings for their own profit. Or whatever it is they're doing. How many billions of small families incomes have to be destroyed before people like you realise that it's not that easy? Oh put it all in Wall St. They'll make you rich!

    There is no working get rich quick scheme that doesn't reek of fraud. It's as simple as that.
    The problem here is that if the whole market fails so horribly that it can't recover, your savings in a bank account aren't necessarily safe either, so if it gets to that point, you lose regardless of what you do. And obviously, I'm talking only about the whole market, because I'm not suggesting that anyone should actually invest in individual stocks, unless it's their full time job and they're experts (and even then, most likely they're not going to beat the market). I'm talking about a wide index fund/ETF tracking something like S&P500 (or something even wider than that like VTSAX/VTI). So if that fails, that means everything around you is burning down, or something like that. Plus if you think that the "rich elite" is controlling the governments etc., do you think they're going to let the entire market go bust?

    And the return rate in my post (7% annualized, corrected for inflation) is the average return rate throughout S&P500's existence, which included quite a few of the crises you mention. So at least assuming that future crises are going to be about as severe as the ones before, you're going to be fine. If not, see above.

    And of course, 40 years of savings is not really a "get rich quick scheme".

  19. #1879
    In related news; House unveils antitrust package to rein in tech giants

    A bill sponsored by subcommittee Chairman David Cicilline (D-R.I.) and co-sponsored by Rep. Lance Gooden (R-Texas) would prohibit tech giants from self-preferencing their own products on their platforms, targeting alleged anti-competitive behavior from Apple in its App Store and Amazon on its digital marketplace.
    ----
    Another bill, sponsored by Reps. Pramila Jayapal (D-Wash.) and Gooden, would eliminate the ability of dominant platforms to use their control over multiple businesses to self-preference or disadvantage competitors in ways that undermine free and fair competition.
    ----
    Rep. Hakeem Jeffries (D-N.Y.) and ranking member Ken Buck (R-Colo.) are sponsoring a bill that would prohibit platforms from acquiring competitive threats by dominant platforms.
    ----
    Another bill sponsored by Reps. Mary Gay Scanlon (D-Pa.) and Burgess Owens (R-Utah) would require online platforms to lower barriers for users and businesses to switch data to other services.
    ----
    The final bill introduced Friday by Reps. Joe Neguse (D-Colo.) and Victoria Spartz (R-Ind.) would increase the filing fees paid to antitrust agencies for merger reviews. It’s a companion bill to one introduced by Sens. Amy Klobuchar (D-Minn.) and Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) that was added to the U.S. Innovation and Competition Act that the upper chamber passed Tuesday.
    -----
    In a statement announcing the legislation Friday, Buck underscored the need for immediacy on the issue.
    “These companies have maintained monopoly power in the online marketplace by using a variety of anticompetitive behaviors to stifle competition. This legislation breaks up Big Tech’s monopoly power to control what Americans see and say online, and fosters an online market that encourages innovation and provides American small businesses with a fair playing field. Doing nothing is not an option, we must act now,” Buck said.

  20. #1880
    Merely a Setback JohnBrown1917's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Обединени социалистически щати на Америка
    Posts
    27,793
    Quote Originally Posted by D3thray View Post
    Everyone agrees with you so therefore you’re right eh? Ever heard of a bandwagon?
    Yeah, turns out the majority do not benefit from a world where big corporations hold 100% of the power.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    Timmy still can get lunch, it's just not free.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •