1. #3181
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    The difference is he can be completely flexible on how repays his loan (if at all) and how he pays his taxes. Try asking your bank and the IRS if you can skip regular payments. You’ll quickly find that you won’t get the same treatment.

    Even a wealth tax is just money out. It’ll get treated just like property tax. Something to be avoided at all costs using whatever means necessary. If it comes to pass it’ll operate as a drag on some people’s growth but little else.
    Good for him, it's his stuff.

    The math has shown (Warren's plan) won't just be a drag, it will literally force people to sell the companies they own, usually the ones they started, or the ones they own outright. That's the problem, the only way to pay for having a successful business, is to sell off that business... piece by piece.

  2. #3182
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Good for him, it's his stuff.

    The math has shown (Warren's plan) won't just be a drag, it will literally force people to sell the companies they own, usually the ones they started, or the ones they own outright. That's the problem, the only way to pay for having a successful business, is to sell off that business... piece by piece.
    and still be as rich as a god, whats the problem

  3. #3183
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    and still be as rich as a god, whats the problem
    It forces them to sell off heir companies, that's the problem.

    Not all of us want to eat the rich.

  4. #3184
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    It forces them to sell off heir companies, that's the problem.

    Not all of us want to eat the rich.
    Why is that a problem, again?

    You keep saying it like this is obvious, but it isn't.


  5. #3185
    once again, the problem doesn't come down to having less absurd amounts of money, it comes down to your ability to own as much of it as possible that means you're free.

  6. #3186
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    It forces them to sell off heir companies, that's the problem.

    Not all of us want to eat the rich.
    yea so what. We choose the system we have now and we can quite happily choose one that is completely different. The current system isnt set in stone or some sort of rule of nature. If top bracket tax goes to 90% or there is a wealth tax, so fucking what?

  7. #3187
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Why is that a problem, again?

    You keep saying it like this is obvious, but it isn't.
    It's a already been pointed out. it's a problem, because you are forcing them to sell their property, property they want, property they built, in order to give to other people. This attacks their liberty, and limits their freedom of self determination.

    Your turn: But why?

    My turn: I just fucking told you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    yea so what. We choose the system we have now and we can quite happily choose one that is completely different. The current system isnt set in stone or some sort of rule of nature. If top bracket tax goes to 90% or there is a wealth tax, so fucking what?
    And the wealthy can buy politicians, and shut you down.

    Congratulations, you're defending corporatism.

  8. #3188
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    This attacks their liberty, and limits their freedom of self determination.
    no it doesnt lol

    And the wealthy can buy politicians, and shut you down.

    Congratulations, you're defending corporatism.
    Thats already the system we have, that you are defending.

  9. #3189
    And the wealthy can buy politicians, and shut you down.

    Congratulations, you're defending corporatism.
    aaand this is where we come back around to the "neener neener!" arguments.

  10. #3190
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    no it doesnt lol


    Thats already the system we have, that you are defending.
    Fine, then I can force you to sell your house, and your liberty is intact.

    Nah, fuck that.

  11. #3191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    It's a already been pointed out. it's a problem, because you are forcing them to sell their property, property they want, property they built, in order to give to other people. This attacks their liberty, and limits their freedom of self determination.

    Your turn: But why?

    My turn: I just fucking told you.
    It doesn't "attack their liberty" in any way whatsoever. Nobody has a "right" to extreme wealth. There is no country on the planet that agrees with that idea.

    Also, it isn't "forcing them to sell their property". That's a free choice they're making, to pay their tax debts. If they can pay those obligations without selling, they're free to do so.

    You're not making an argument. You're throwing a child's tantrum, saying "but it's miiiiine" when asked to share.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Fine, then I can force you to sell your house, and your liberty is intact.

    Nah, fuck that.
    Guess what happens if you have significant debts and can't pay them off without selling your house?

    You get obliged to sell your house.


  12. #3192
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Fine, then I can force you to sell your house, and your liberty is intact.

    Nah, fuck that.
    you heard of property tax? foreclosure? repossessions?

  13. #3193
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    It doesn't "attack their liberty" in any way whatsoever. Nobody has a "right" to extreme wealth. There is no country on the planet that agrees with that idea.

    Also, it isn't "forcing them to sell their property". That's a free choice they're making, to pay their tax debts. If they can pay those obligations without selling, they're free to do so.

    You're not making an argument. You're throwing a child's tantrum, saying "but it's miiiiine" when asked to share.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Guess what happens if you have significant debts and can't pay them off without selling your house?

    You get obliged to sell your house.
    Yes, it does attack their liberty, because they do have a right to own property and assets.

    And, increased taxation is also a direct attack on liberty.

    Or, do you want to get into that bullshit, again?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    you heard of property tax? foreclosure? repossessions?
    Yep, it's a wealth tax, and I don't support it.

    So, I'll be selling your house next week, Make sure to be out by then.

  14. #3194
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Yes, it does attack their liberty, because they do have a right to own property and assets.
    A right they still have, FYI. Needing to sell assets to meet debts owed doesn't mean you don't have that right. It just mean that your right to own shit doesn't supersede the debts you owe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    And, increased taxation is also a direct attack on liberty.
    Then you could argue that taxation as a whole is an attack on liberty. In which case society falls apart as the government is unable to pay for anything, including things like emergency services, and all of the positive freedoms we enjoy thanks to being a part of a society of laws are gone.

    Unless you can afford to pay for personal protection and all that jazz, so it's really just taking rights and freedoms away from the poors which you either don't realize, or don't care about.

    Though technically at that point, without a central government and a currency to pay those folks protecting you...well shit, now we're in even messier territory.

  15. #3195
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post

    So, I'll be selling your house next week, Make sure to be out by then.
    what the fuck are you talking about have you been taking ivermectin?

  16. #3196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Yes, it does attack their liberty, because they do have a right to own property and assets.
    A "right to own [some] property and assets" is not a "right to never be obliged to sell any property to pay off extant debts you owe". Not anywhere.

    And, increased taxation is also a direct attack on liberty.
    That's a hilarious lie.

    Or, do you want to get into that bullshit, again?
    The bullshit of claiming that taxation is an attack on liberty?

    It's just a lie. An obvious, ridiculous lie. Go on, call taxation "theft". Declare that you're a sovereign citizen and the laws don't apply to you. That's the territory you're in right now.


  17. #3197
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Yep, it's a wealth tax, and I don't support it.
    ...foreclosures and repossession are literally the opposite of a wealth tax. It's when you can't afford the shit you have.

  18. #3198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Then you could argue that taxation as a whole is an attack on liberty. In which case society falls apart as the government is unable to pay for anything, including things like emergency services, and all of the positive freedoms we enjoy thanks to being a part of a society of laws are gone.
    But remember; Machismo is not an anarchist, even if his arguments boil down to a stance that the government should not exist in any meaningful sense and everyone should be able to do whatever they want without restrictions.


  19. #3199
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    Thats already the system we have, that you are defending.
    He refuses to acknowledge that. Because once he does, his whole belief system comes crashing down.

    But yeah; he's been defending the entire corrupt structure this entire fucking time...pay-to-play..all of it.
    And not once has he realized the beliefs he follows have turned into him into filth.

  20. #3200
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    property they built
    It's been shown to you repeatedly that a) most billionaires didn't build up from nothing, they had a nice lump of wealth to start with and b) no billionaire IN THE WORLD built a company up on their own. It literally isn't possible. Any company that reaches the size where it is genuinely worth that much has employees; lots of them. People working hard to make that billionaire money, often for less than minimum wage, with taxpayer support. And he's building the company in a country whose infrastructure and communications have been build with other people's effort to provide a foundation for the growth of that company.

    This myth you've built in your head of the hard-working billionaire building his company up single-handedly only to have the evil government try and take it away is fucking laughable. A wealth tax is a tool to try and get some of the wealth that certain individuals have steered into their own pocket back out, so that it can be redirected to the actual working people. Because the alternative is for those people to simply get more and more of the money, until society grinds to a halt (or actually breaks) because there isn't enough left for the rest of us.

    You want a genuine cliff edge, rather than the social security one you are using as a bogey-man? It's when the rich have so much money that society crumbles, and their wealth isn't enough to keep the wolves from the door. The French can explain what happens next, it isn't pretty. I think they'd prefer a wealth tax to whatever the American working man comes up with in lieu of the guillotine.
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