Report: Tax Returns of the Top 25 Wealthiest in America

[Huehuecoyotl]

That image pretty much perfectly sums up a lot fo things. Machismo just thinks it's unfair to tax the heir more.

https://twitter.com/ewarren/status/1...228491777?s=20

I can pretend to be Machismo in his absence, if that helps?

"If you tax the poor heir, they will lose their company in 8 years. You don't understand the difference between wealth and income. They built that company up on their own. Will any of you pay more tax to support other people being lazy? I didn't think so. Everyone will just sit around and take advantage of the system unless you clamp down on them. Poor people should plan ahead better."

Did I miss anything?

[Endus]

That image pretty much perfectly sums up a lot fo things. Machismo just thinks it's unfair to tax the heir more.

https://twitter.com/ewarren/status/1...228491777?s=20

And a lot of the arguments boil down to "but we have carefully crafted and defined a system where they don't get taxed more, so any argument to change that means you're not using words correctly!"

And that's, obviously, horseshit, because we're talking about re-building and re-defining that system.

It's a smug fait-accompli approach to bad-faith derailment. "We already made it the wrong way, so you have to stop trying to fix it." An insistence that the status quo is "just" by virtue of being the status quo, and nothing more. Which is why I said his arguments were the same as anti-abolitionists in the early 19th Century. The same "but this is how things are, we can't even conceive that they could ever be changed, that's unfair. We already won and blew the whistle and that means the game is over and you have to stop playing!"

And that just isn't how anything works.

[Zan15]

I can pretend to be Machismo in his absence, if that helps?

"If you tax the poor heir, they will lose their company in 8 years. You don't understand the difference between wealth and income. They built that company up on their own. Will any of you pay more tax to support other people being lazy? I didn't think so. Everyone will just sit around and take advantage of the system unless you clamp down on them. Poor people should plan ahead better."

Did I miss anything?

damn i almost reported you as an ban avoiding macho alt.. :P

[Ivanstone]

That image pretty much perfectly sums up a lot fo things. Machismo just thinks it's unfair to tax the heir more.

https://twitter.com/ewarren/status/1...228491777?s=20

To be fair...

The inheritance tax should've amply covered that.

And on that note anyone know if Saint Lynsi Snyder paid any inheritance tax. I did a little digging but I have no idea if she did or not. Did her grandparents get one of them fancy South Dakota trusts to dodge the IRS?

[Glorious Leader]

And a lot of the arguments boil down to "but we have carefully crafted and defined a system where they don't get taxed more, so any argument to change that means you're not using words correctly!"

And that's, obviously, horseshit, because we're talking about re-building and re-defining that system.

It's a smug fait-accompli approach to bad-faith derailment. "We already made it the wrong way, so you have to stop trying to fix it." An insistence that the status quo is "just" by virtue of being the status quo, and nothing more. Which is why I said his arguments were the same as anti-abolitionists in the early 19th Century. The same "but this is how things are, we can't even conceive that they could ever be changed, that's unfair. We already won and blew the whistle and that means the game is over and you have to stop playing!"

And that just isn't how anything works.

Theirs a word for this. Bootlicker.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm aware of what he is.
However he's the only one here that wants to protect the wealthy, and by extension, Trump's wealth.

Trumps wealth should probably be in quotes here.

[Ivanstone]

https://www.propublica.org/article/m...d-estate-taxes
*Hey its time for an update!
*In 1990, Congress accidentally created GRATs when it closed another estate tax loophole that was popular at the time. The IRS challenged the maneuver but lost in court.
*The trust pays back an amount equal to what the trust’s creator put in plus a modest amount of interest.
*If a person puts $100 million worth of stock in a GRAT and the stock rises in value to $130 million, their heirs would receive about $30 million tax-free.
*I wonder if I can name a wealthy person who was the recipient of a large trust?

[Edge-]

https://www.propublica.org/article/m...d-estate-taxes
*Hey its time for an update!
*In 1990, Congress accidentally created GRATs when it closed another estate tax loophole that was popular at the time. The IRS challenged the maneuver but lost in court.
*The trust pays back an amount equal to what the trust’s creator put in plus a modest amount of interest.
*If a person puts $100 million worth of stock in a GRAT and the stock rises in value to $130 million, their heirs would receive about $30 million tax-free.
*I wonder if I can name a wealthy person who was the recipient of a large trust?

I'll take: "Our system rigged to aggressively benefit the wealthy" for $4.2 billion, Alex.

I love that Forbes lists her on the lists of self-made billionaires, and their list includes a 1-10 scale about how self made they were...and 1-5 are all basically, "lawl, they fuckin inherited it." And she's a 3.

A score of 1, on the other hand, represents a member of The Forbes 400 who has inherited a fortune and hasn’t actively worked to increase it.

How the fuck are you self-made if you literally just got a few billion because daddy died and you've been spending the last 10 years letting that wealth grow as you blow tons of money on Mt. Dew, Dorito's, and FIFA Ultimate Team MTX? Like shit, that's self sustaining money you don't even need to DO anything to in order for it to grow.

See: MacKenzy Scott and the fact that despite giving away $8B to charities since her divorce, her wealth still increased.

https://www.businessinsider.com/mack...k-surge-2021-6

She literally can't give money away fast enough to make up for the additional wealth her wealth accrues by virtue of simply existing.

[Bodakane]

I'll take: "Our system rigged to aggressively benefit the wealthy" for $4.2 billion, Alex.

I love that Forbes lists her on the lists of self-made billionaires, and their list includes a 1-10 scale about how self made they were...and 1-5 are all basically, "lawl, they fuckin inherited it." And she's a 3.



How the fuck are you self-made if you literally just got a few billion because daddy died and you've been spending the last 10 years letting that wealth grow as you blow tons of money on Mt. Dew, Dorito's, and FIFA Ultimate Team MTX? Like shit, that's self sustaining money you don't even need to DO anything to in order for it to grow.

See: MacKenzy Scott and the fact that despite giving away $8B to charities since her divorce, her wealth still increased.

https://www.businessinsider.com/mack...k-surge-2021-6

She literally can't give money away fast enough to make up for the additional wealth her wealth accrues by virtue of simply existing.

But remember, unless it comes in a paycheck you can't call it income!!!!!!!!!

[Ivanstone]

I love that Forbes lists her on the lists of self-made billionaires, and their list includes a 1-10 scale about how self made they were...and 1-5 are all basically, "lawl, they fuckin inherited it." And she's a 3.

See: MacKenzy Scott and the fact that despite giving away $8B to charities since her divorce, her wealth still increased.
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She literally can't give money away fast enough to make up for the additional wealth her wealth accrues by virtue of simply existing.

Honestly I think she deserves better than a "3". She has meaningfully increased In-N-Out's size even though she's just using the method's her grandparents used. Trump rated a "4" even though his wealth is all smoke-and-mirrors. Trump should've been able to double his inheritance but he's drowning in debt and his wealth was mostly obtained from theft.

I consider MacKenzie Bezos to be as self-made as her husband for good or for ill. Her contributions to Amazon's early growth was important even though she never had a fancy title. For all I now that Amazon's "unique" blend of wage theft and sales tax evasion was her idea.

[Shadowferal]

Related; 'Pandora Papers': Massive leak exposes offshore dealings

Leaked offshore financial records dubbed the "Pandora Papers" were published by major news outlets this weekend, exposing the secret assets and agreements from some of the world's most wealthy and powerful leaders.

The leak contained nearly 12 million files from companies hired to set up offshore accounts in Panama, Dubai, Monaco, Switzerland and the Cayman Islands, the Guardian said.

The Guardian reported that people named in the papers include 35 world leaders, 300 other public officials and more than 100 billionaires. Current and former presidents, prime ministers, judges, mayors, military generals and more are among those named.

The papers offer what the Guardian called a "rare window into the hidden operations" of offshore financial operations that enable some of the world's wealthiest people to evade taxes.

The Guardian and other media outlets intend to publish additional findings about the papers in the coming days.

[Draco-Onis]

Honestly I think she deserves better than a "3". She has meaningfully increased In-N-Out's size even though she's just using the method's her grandparents used. Trump rated a "4" even though his wealth is all smoke-and-mirrors. Trump should've been able to double his inheritance but he's drowning in debt and his wealth was mostly obtained from theft.

I consider MacKenzie Bezos to be as self-made as her husband for good or for ill. Her contributions to Amazon's early growth was important even though she never had a fancy title. For all I now that Amazon's "unique" blend of wage theft and sales tax evasion was her idea.

But Bezos isn't self made his parents were loaded aside from Jobs most of these self made stories are fiction.

- - - Updated - - -

Related; 'Pandora Papers': Massive leak exposes offshore dealings

Leaked offshore financial records dubbed the "Pandora Papers" were published by major news outlets this weekend, exposing the secret assets and agreements from some of the world's most wealthy and powerful leaders.

The leak contained nearly 12 million files from companies hired to set up offshore accounts in Panama, Dubai, Monaco, Switzerland and the Cayman Islands, the Guardian said.

The Guardian reported that people named in the papers include 35 world leaders, 300 other public officials and more than 100 billionaires. Current and former presidents, prime ministers, judges, mayors, military generals and more are among those named.

The papers offer what the Guardian called a "rare window into the hidden operations" of offshore financial operations that enable some of the world's wealthiest people to evade taxes.

The Guardian and other media outlets intend to publish additional findings about the papers in the coming days.

I wonder how many poor journalists are going to be assassinated for this leak.

[Shadowferal]

I wonder how many poor journalists are going to be assassinated for this leak.

Too late for assassination.

[Draco-Onis]

Too late for assassination.

Didn't matter for the Panama papers, the killing happens when they go after the source of the leak. They want to plug that hole before more comes out.

[Ivanstone]

Update Time:
https://www.propublica.org/article/h...d-paying-taxes
TLDR:
*Yes, politicians also get tax advantages that regular citizens don't have access to.
*Colorado Dem Governor Jared Polis used a variety of tax avoidance schemes. This is mostly an example of using charitable donations to create advertising for oneself.
*Lewl: "One of the executives at Polis’ family office, according to her LinkedIn profile, is a seasoned tax expert who specializes in “maximizing cost savings both operationally and with all taxing authorities.” She removed that detail around the time ProPublica approached Polis about his taxes."
*Other politicians include Rick Scott, Betsy DeVos and Jim Justice.
*GOP Rep Darrell Issa had voted against Trump's tax giveaway. He claimed that limiting the SALT deduction would hurt California tax payers. This is likely true. What is also true is that Issa made heavy use of the SALT deduction and it saved him over $50 million over the years.

[Biglog]

In general, any system that is severely overly complex by-design, is usually designed to be gamed in unfair way for a particular group. The US tax system is the biggest example of that. But gerrymandered election districts and the electoral college system are others, and there are many more. If the company you work for has a bonus system that requires a swarm of accountants to be able to figure out how to tell you how much it will be, that is probably another one.

It's not been a secret that a simple flat tiered tax rate without countless deductions and loopholes would be 100x more fair. 1 vote being 1 vote is how the US should work, not with gerrymandered districts and the electoral college to make the votes of millions irrelevant simply depending where they live. But whenever simple normal fair solutions are proposed, like fixing gerrymandering or the electoral college or the tax system, they get lobbied against hard by the powers abusing them and quickly shot down. Also, in the current political climate it's easy for one political party to say they oppose it just because the other side wants it.

[Endus]

It's not been a secret that a simple flat tiered tax rate without countless deductions and loopholes would be 100x more fair.

Umm, if a tax rate is tiered, it is not flat.

Literally opposites.

[Breccia]

This is mostly an example of using charitable donations to create advertising for oneself.

Taking charity or politcal contributions and using it for personal or business gain is illegal whether it's a Democrat, Republican, or Trump. We're not talking about Red Cross paying salaries here.

[Ivanstone]

Taking charity or politcal contributions and using it for personal or business gain is illegal whether it's a Democrat, Republican, or Trump. We're not talking about Red Cross paying salaries here.

Polis used his own money for charity. He would then take appropriate tax reductions for donating. He would then circulate a newsletter proclaiming these donations. This generated some goodwill towards him. Anonymous donations with no tax deductions is actual charity. Anything else should be viewed with suspicion. It’s a big advantage an already wealthy person can use to game the system. On the plus side he appears to not be using the Colorado tax code to enrich himself and has closed deductions that the wealthy can exploit.

Meanwhile he was using other tax saving measures that have been discussed previously. Fun fact: Polis criticized Trump over his tax returns but never revealed his own while running for governor.

[Breccia]

Fun fact: Polis criticized Trump over his tax returns but never revealed his own while running for governor.

Mixed feelings about this one. Yes, Trump in 2016 allowed Polis in 2018 to withhold his taxes. But besides being a hypocrite move, we're wandering towards slippery slope. I don't want it to be the norm where nobody discloses their taxes and we have no idea if we're voting for Mother Theresa or a con artist.