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  1. #361
    Quote Originally Posted by Krayvasion View Post
    How do you *not* vote with your wallet?
    Whenever you buy a game, you tell them "I want this".
    Whenever you don't buy a game, you tell them "I don't want this".

    I think you mean something else.
    Do people buy "every game" and thus it has no meaning if you buy a game or something?
    Do they spend even more money afterwards on it, even if they don't enjoy the game?
    Well buying a game is not the be all end all anymore, cash shops it were it's at now but in order for them to effectively milk a playerbase you have to manage to keep a significant community and a general level of positive attitude towards the game to do so. So even if BF2042 sold initially well it's not like the CEO is like "Good job guys, just keep doing the same!" Quite the opposite in fact as EA has been scrambling frantically to try and fix this with sweeping management changes.

  2. #362
    Dreadlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    There are degrees of toxic - I did mention about the few steps, didn't I? Because saying "DICE sucks, EA sucks/they can't make game for shit" is toxic too, at least for some people, but... it should be an acceptable level of toxic. Nor should we ever listen to some dumbass talking about expectations. Customer engagement 101, especially considering said customer is pissed.

    As for the rest - you almost sound like we need to accept the current shit state of gaming development and just protest in forums. Doesn't work too, obviously, so what is left? People won't vote with their wallets, no matter how much that is repeated.
    And if they never vote with their wallets - the ONLY thing that really matters; then none of this changes.

    You can rail on all the forums you want. (You as in gamers, not YOU specifically) Be as toxic as you want. Be as constructive on reddit or forums or twitch or twitter or whatever - and zippo of it makes any difference. If you don't vote with your wallet - then this WILL be the future of games, and worse.

    They can "deserve" the negative feedback - sure. Deserve it all day. But if all people do is complain but keep buying? HA - complaints won't change a thing. All the 'bad press' in the world is irrelevant if people keep paying money. Just look at MADDEN and FIFA - tons of bad press - tons of millions of dollars making the same game for a decade. Bad press matter? Nope. Not even a little bit. "Laughing all the way to the bank..." Would be the saying for that.

    And THAT IS as simple as 2+2.
    Last edited by Koriani; 2022-01-13 at 06:36 PM.
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  3. #363
    Quote Originally Posted by Krayvasion View Post
    How do you *not* vote with your wallet?
    Whenever you buy a game, you tell them "I want this".
    Whenever you don't buy a game, you tell them "I don't want this".

    I think you mean something else.
    Do people buy "every game" and thus it has no meaning if you buy a game or something?
    Do they spend even more money afterwards on it, even if they don't enjoy the game?
    It means the whole "don't buy their stuff" thing does not work. All the calls to boycot someone, don't spend cash in in-game shops, don't buy DLC's, etc, it doesn't work. Why? Because most people don't know, don't care, or any combination of both. Ever heard the term "vocal minority"? That is what Reddit, news posts and so on usually are.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  4. #364
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    IBecause most people don't know, don't care, or any combination of both.
    Or, don't have the self control. We've all seen the "Boycott CODMW2 until they have dedicated servers!" Steam group where almost every player online in the group was playing MW2 on launch day.

    People talk a big game, but rarely deliver on it.

  5. #365
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Or, don't have the self control. We've all seen the "Boycott CODMW2 until they have dedicated servers!" Steam group where almost every player online in the group was playing MW2 on launch day.

    People talk a big game, but rarely deliver on it.
    Because we simply wanna play stuff/touch the new shiny thing. I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing, but it surely doesn't help.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  6. #366
    I'll so though, so far these cosmetics are...kinda dogshit. A freakin cowboy skin?

    Man, I'm just wondering when they add in all the nice tacticool cosmetic gear that folks actually want. I get it, a lot of this shit is in the hopper already and was planned, but man...this just feels so tonally off for the entirety of the BF franchise. The operator lines are already kinda bad and cringy as-is, don't make it worse by putting us in matches with cowboys and clowns and all kinds of other random shit. Keep that for Portal modes.



    The two skins shown off so far (santa skin was at least confirmed for Portal only, and wasn't actually released), vs. the skins that folks actually fuckin want -_-
    Last edited by Edge-; 2022-01-14 at 03:29 AM.

  7. #367
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    I'll so though, so far these cosmetics are...kinda dogshit. A freakin cowboy skin?

    Man, I'm just wondering when they add in all the nice tacticool cosmetic gear that folks actually want. I get it, a lot of this shit is in the hopper already and was planned, but man...this just feels so tonally off for the entirety of the BF franchise. The operator lines are already kinda bad and cringy as-is, don't make it worse by putting us in matches with cowboys and clowns and all kinds of other random shit. Keep that for Portal modes.

    The two skins shown off so far (santa skin was at least confirmed for Portal only, and wasn't actually released), vs. the skins that folks actually fuckin want -_-
    Its becuase to many people buy that shit and they will keep doing it. Look at warzone. Milsim till black ops released then it went out the window. I dont get it and wish those kids would just go play fortnite. Need more milsim.

  8. #368
    https://twitter.com/JA_Wiebe/status/...088744960?s=20

    So that is tricky. Since those modes were made in Frostbite instead of using portal logic. Would need to be rebuilt from scratch, so it’s in the “discussion” phase. But this would also need a form of spatial editor to pull off in Portal as it requires placement of mcoms etc….
    Yo, what the fuck is Portal and Frostbite even. Here I thought Portal was just a mode within the game build on Frostbite? Man, I know I barely get tech and shit but I can't make heads or tails of this.

    Also apparently fixing the Portal progression issues is a lot more work than they thought - https://twitter.com/JA_Wiebe/status/...086282243?s=20

    Edit: https://twitter.com/_Tom_Henderson_/...62716979400711

    And per reliable leaker, the 4M+ sales numbers aren't actually that. IT was the total number of everyone that played, including folks on free trials that got refunds or through the EA sub and shit. Explains why EA has been silent on sales.

    Also also, per another tweet from him earlier apparently DICE doesn't even know how to really unfuck the game/what direction to go from here given the player reaction thus far, which is why they've been fairly quiet about the game since coming back. They're trying to figure out where to go, or apparently if they can even actually fix a lot of the core issues in 2042.

    - - - Updated - - -

    https://www.vg247.com/battlefield-20...arn-new-system



    Breakdown of how Portal XP is supposedly going to work moving forward, this is apparently live now.

    It's definitely better and all but like...man this is confusing. I guess having 3 different studios working on 3 different parts of the game and I guess not talking to each other/sharing work is resulting in this confusing clusterfuck of what the shit is this even.

    I'm still desperately hoping for a development deep dive piece, because it sounds like shit went sideways in a lot of ways and most of this was cobbled together at the last bloody minute...which we've heard again, and again, and again, and again...
    Last edited by Edge-; 2022-01-19 at 02:07 AM.

  9. #369
    https://twitter.com/_Tom_Henderson_/...61137818525714

    And Tom Henderson, a reliable leaker, is saying that EA is very unhappy with performance. Not surprising given the response.

    Apparently they're still trying to figure out what to do with it and "all options are on the table" including some form of F2P transition, and he should know more tomorrow.

    I'm not opposed to it but man, this continues to be a bloody mess for them. Please actual game journos, find out how the fuck this went so sideways.



    This was some deadbrained shit. "Zombies" are just NPC's with knives that run around, can't climb anything. So it became a bot farm, you know, that thing DICE was trying to combat, where you just hopped on a roof and farmed enemies for 60 minutes...which I didn't know was the "win" condition when I played and after like 15 minutes of this deadbrained shit we just jumped down to go out in a blaze of glory against hundreds of "zombies". That was a fun few minutes at least.

    DICE is a fuckin amateur clown show right now.
    Last edited by Edge-; 2022-01-21 at 05:31 PM.

  10. #370
    lmao this game is such a dumpster fire. I hope DICE sweden get shut down, theyve been trash for years. The solution to 2042 is so blindlingly obvious to everyone, but DICE.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    I'm still desperately hoping for a development deep dive piece, because it sounds like shit went sideways in a lot of ways and most of this was cobbled together at the last bloody minute...which we've heard again, and again, and again, and again...
    It was a BR they changed at the last moment, there is nothing else to say or analyse.
    1) Load the amount of weight I would deadlift onto the bench
    2) Unrack
    3) Crank out 15 reps
    4) Be ashamed of constantly skipping leg day

  11. #371
    Quote Originally Posted by willtron View Post
    The solution to 2042 is so blindlingly obvious to everyone, but DICE.
    What's that?

    Quote Originally Posted by willtron View Post
    It was a BR they changed at the last moment, there is nothing else to say or analyse.
    Sauce on this? There's the leaks that they're working on a BR mode (I hope they scrap it), but beyond that I don't see anything about it starting out as a BR game. I have no doubts the rebooted development late on which is why everything is so slapdash, but I've yet to see anything verifying this.

  12. #372
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    What's that?
    Ditch hazard zone, Portal goes F2P with all the wacky shit they want, 2042 stays mainline B2P, they didn't learn from Firestorm.

    Rope players in with a free mode for the playercount, transactions and advertising, core players will continue to pay for and play main line.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Sauce on this? There's the leaks that they're working on a BR mode (I hope they scrap it), but beyond that I don't see anything about it starting out as a BR game. I have no doubts the rebooted development late on which is why everything is so slapdash, but I've yet to see anything verifying this.
    https://www.vg247.com/battlefield-20...%20Battlefield.

    https://screenrant.com/battlefield-2...-apex-legends/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MKtgP7cHEk

    Google it, pretty much every single leak says it was and it makes total sense - bland open maps. Specialists. Armour. No scoreboard. End of match cinematic thing. Vehicle call ins.

    Ultimately putting people like Fawzi Mesmar in positions of power was an apocalytpically stupid idea.
    Last edited by willtron; 2022-01-23 at 12:08 PM.
    1) Load the amount of weight I would deadlift onto the bench
    2) Unrack
    3) Crank out 15 reps
    4) Be ashamed of constantly skipping leg day

  13. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by willtron View Post
    Ditch hazard zone, Portal goes F2P with all the wacky shit they want, 2042 stays mainline B2P, they didn't learn from Firestorm.

    Rope players in with a free mode for the playercount, transactions and advertising, core players will continue to pay for and play main line.
    Not sure any of that will matter if ultimately the core experience is just kinda meh.

  14. #374
    Quote Originally Posted by dlld View Post
    Not sure any of that will matter if ultimately the core experience is just kinda meh.
    Maybe, maybe not - but portal is the best idea they've had for a long time and that needs to go out by itself as a standalone element.
    1) Load the amount of weight I would deadlift onto the bench
    2) Unrack
    3) Crank out 15 reps
    4) Be ashamed of constantly skipping leg day

  15. #375
    Quote Originally Posted by willtron View Post
    Ditch hazard zone, Portal goes F2P with all the wacky shit they want, 2042 stays mainline B2P, they didn't learn from Firestorm.

    Rope players in with a free mode for the playercount, transactions and advertising, core players will continue to pay for and play main line.
    That doesn't address the core issues that are pissing folks off right now though. They need to fix the core experience before any business model transition, just as with any MMO that's made the move.

    Quote Originally Posted by willtron View Post
    Google it, pretty much every single leak says it was and it makes total sense - bland open maps. Specialists. Armour. No scoreboard. End of match cinematic thing. Vehicle call ins.
    Weird that the only shit popping up was about BR coming back, thanks though. Makes perfect sense and I figured there was a reboot late into development so this seems to confirm it, also explains a lot of the other decisions that are a bit off. Shifts more of the blame back to EA then, what a fuckin cockup.

  16. #376
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    I don't think shutting them down is an appropiate response to a game ending up badly. They probably weren't given enough time to make it.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde

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  17. #377
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    I don't think shutting them down is an appropiate response to a game ending up badly. They probably weren't given enough time to make it.
    Seems to have become an incredibly frequent occurence in game development lately...
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  18. #378
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    I don't think shutting them down is an appropiate response to a game ending up badly. They probably weren't given enough time to make it.
    Well afaik EA let bioware faff about for 5 years on Andromeda or was it anthem with nothing really playable before they told them they had to get something releasable together in a year or something, just giving devs more time isn't always the answer.

  19. #379
    Quote Originally Posted by dlld View Post
    Well afaik EA let bioware faff about for 5 years on Andromeda or was it anthem with nothing really playable before they told them they had to get something releasable together in a year or something, just giving devs more time isn't always the answer.
    It was both, more or less. BW had years working on prototypes and ideas and going absolutely nowhere with both. Sometimes giving the team more time is the answer, but as you not it isn't always. In those instances the teams very much could have benefitted from more time too since they realistically figured out the direction to take the game very late into the process, but that also speaks to the reality that sometimes publishers do need to be the "bad buy" and start enforcing deadlines and limits or helping guide early development.

    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Seems to have become an incredibly frequent occurence in game development lately...
    Reportedly (thanks to Willtron) it got rebooted about 18 months before release to move away from being a BR game. That likely gutted a huge chunk of the work they'd done on the game across the board, and it's likely why DICE was begging for EA to throw more studios at the game in March of 2021 or so.

    In other news, the Tom Henderson video is out. Nothing new, really. TLDR from what I remember

    - Game is kinda fucked and they're still trying to figure out how to fix it and where to go from here. Things change a lot because these are active discussions.
    - It sold "meh" at best and EA is not going to have good things to say about sales on the earnings call. Player counts have dropped to 30-40K concurrent across all platforms (so a lot more players than that overall still) with Hazard Zone being a barren wasteland with only a few hundred concurrent players globally across all platforms.
    - Portal being considered for F2P, not Hazard Zone since apparently it's so unpopular that they don't think it'll attract anyone.

    Also, he amusingly pointed out that we're just at about week 10 - which was the point BW finally started responding to Anthem being broke as a joke.

  20. #380
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Reportedly (thanks to Willtron) it got rebooted about 18 months before release to move away from being a BR game. That likely gutted a huge chunk of the work they'd done on the game across the board, and it's likely why DICE was begging for EA to throw more studios at the game in March of 2021 or so.
    I understand that not everything is lost upon reboot, but 1.5 years for development? Actually less, considering last months are spent mostly on polishing and testing, not trying to add new feature one week before release.
    Yeah, that's just wrong in all kinds of ways.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

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