Night Elves the most diverse racial group?

[Beloren]

Interesting, every group has a tech race, a furry race, and a midget race - what's your reasoning for Mecha gnomes going Illidari? Is it the cold rational of logic can allow them to actually go alongside illidan when he does some evil things in the name of the greater good. Or that King Mechagon's unstable fascination can work within the Illdiari? Tbh, i think Prince Erazus could lead the mecha gnomes in the Illidari.. but are they relevant with the Dark Irons there?

You forgot the forsaken. Ah, are they exempt because every race can be undead? And so will always get numbers?
.

Mechas are logical enough to do illidari stuff others might consider evil. I put King Mechagon because you need a bit of crazy to go along.

Mechas could potentially have fit in the ancients, as they've lived long past the usual gnomish lifespan thanks to their machine augments - King Mechagon left gnomeragan several gnome generations ago, and they were long dead enough to be a legend by the time we discover them. But the Ancients already had Draenei as the technology group, while the Illidari had none. Goblins tech up the horde, Gnomes the alliance, the scourge rely on the undead of those races to fuel their monstrosities.

And yes, you got it right about the undead, they get their numbers from every race.

[username993720]

I'd say Mag'har Orcs, with all their different clans represented by their playable race.

[Razion]

Racially, yes, Trolls are more diverse, but there is more diversity shown in the night elves culturally and society wide too.

they have many more clearer defined institutions, and detailed orders, affliations etc.. look at hte list i made. This is more widespanning than the trolls don't you think? If you add them up.

Institutions and affiliations aren't constructs of culture in terms of diversity as they don't make a group more diverse and inclusive, they segregate and make it less diverse and inclusive. By making these orders, the Night Elves prioritize individuality rather than togetherness. I'd argue diversity is more about inclusion rather than exclusion. If we were going by total organizations, that's an arbitrary abstraction -- there can be any number of branches to any number of "companies". But it's entirely pointless. It's not including other races still. It's not including other people. It's still just Night Elves a lot of the time. They aren't taking in other aspects of other cultures as much as Dwarves or Trolls, and they aren't sharing theirs with other races as readily certainly - only Worgen seem to get that special treatment.

A company for what it's worth as a cultural milestone as a worthwhile entity in WoW is broken up primarily by professions and class. This is how the game defines its major cultural milestones and how the races culturally draw the line at where the meaningful lines of inclusion are drawn. So if you want to argue Night Elves are more exclusionary than any other race, sure, they have a lot of red-tape and organizations arbitrarily telling themselves they have different sects of druids. But they're still druids. It's not any more diverse than any other race having druids versus one that doesn't. Druids encompass every facet of power within it as a whole - when classes are available for study on a racial level, all specializations and trees, all forms are open to study and learning.

It's one thing for a Night Elf to say "I'm really good at cat form, and look I made a special institution for it," and then for a Troll to say, "well, we can do that too. Why does having a label for it make that any more culturally diverse? If anything, we don't need the label for people to be able to study it. People can just decide to do that." We could be arbitrary here, and point to all the various examples of Trolls and all the Loa and Wild Gods that they follow, too. The list would equally be long and pointless, as it only serves to segregate at a base level. If we're including all these groups as equal parts as defined in the culture by the base class system that is established as being, frankly, a class caste system, we can get a better idea of what cultural lines mean across different races and where they actually draw the line.

Some organizations can be inclusive, like say the Argent Crusade, which accepts everyone and everything, and some organizations, like Druids of the Fang, are again, far more insular and less diverse. If we were going for business openness, that's something goblins and humans tend to win. But I think the Warcraft universe isn't one centered around business and commerce and money. This is a class caste system that defines your status in this medieval societies and cultures, where supernatural powers and deals with gods and your own connection to magic is far more important than gold. Goblins as well, all the business and collateral in the world. But that doesn't make them diverse or inclusive just because they made another business. Any one person can make their own business and be completely self-employed. That doesn't make it inclusive. To be inclusive is to be inclusive, to let others in. Night Elf institutions by the nature of their culture are generally not very inclusive of outside races. Barely anyone else gets in. You don't see any other Priests of Elune outside Night Elves and Worgen really. Yet meanwhile with Trolls, you can see many many other racial followers of Loa besides Trolls in all the other primal races -- it extends to anyone far more freely and the lines aren't fiercely defended as if territory.

[geco]

Institutions and affiliations aren't constructs of culture in terms of diversity as they don't make a group more diverse and inclusive, they segregate and make it less diverse and inclusive. By making these orders, the Night Elves prioritize individuality rather than togetherness. I'd argue diversity is more about inclusion rather than exclusion. If we were going by total organizations, that's an arbitrary abstraction -- there can be any number of branches to any number of "companies". But it's entirely pointless. It's not including other races still. It's not including other people. It's still just Night Elves a lot of the time. They aren't taking in other aspects of other cultures as much as Dwarves or Trolls, and they aren't sharing theirs with other races as readily certainly - only Worgen seem to get that special treatment.

A company for what it's worth as a cultural milestone as a worthwhile entity in WoW is broken up primarily by professions and class. This is how the game defines its major cultural milestones and how the races culturally draw the line at where the meaningful lines of inclusion are drawn. So if you want to argue Night Elves are more exclusionary than any other race, sure, they have a lot of red-tape and organizations arbitrarily telling themselves they have different sects of druids. But they're still druids. It's not any more diverse than any other race having druids versus one that doesn't. Druids encompass every facet of power within it as a whole - when classes are available for study on a racial level, all specializations and trees, all forms are open to study and learning.

It's one thing for a Night Elf to say "I'm really good at cat form, and look I made a special institution for it," and then for a Troll to say, "well, we can do that too. Why does having a label for it make that any more culturally diverse? If anything, we don't need the label for people to be able to study it. People can just decide to do that." We could be arbitrary here, and point to all the various examples of Trolls and all the Loa and Wild Gods that they follow, too. The list would equally be long and pointless, as it only serves to segregate at a base level. If we're including all these groups as equal parts as defined in the culture by the base class system that is established as being, frankly, a class caste system, we can get a better idea of what cultural lines mean across different races and where they actually draw the line.

Some organizations can be inclusive, like say the Argent Crusade, which accepts everyone and everything, and some organizations, like Druids of the Fang, are again, far more insular and less diverse. If we were going for business openness, that's something goblins and humans tend to win. But I think the Warcraft universe isn't one centered around business and commerce and money. This is a class caste system that defines your status in this medieval societies and cultures, where supernatural powers and deals with gods and your own connection to magic is far more important than gold. Goblins as well, all the business and collateral in the world. But that doesn't make them diverse or inclusive just because they made another business. Any one person can make their own business and be completely self-employed. That doesn't make it inclusive. To be inclusive is to be inclusive, to let others in. Night Elf institutions by the nature of their culture are generally not very inclusive of outside races. Barely anyone else gets in. You don't see any other Priests of Elune outside Night Elves and Worgen really. Yet meanwhile with Trolls, you can see many many other racial followers of Loa besides Trolls in all the other primal races -- it extends to anyone far more freely and the lines aren't fiercely defended as if territory.

Yes and no.
If I don't think the different types of Druid would agree to diverge.
What has the "Divercity" of the Kaldorei is that you have Cetinalas, Wardens, Druids and Highborns (and the Illidari).
You basically have 4 different towns functioning as 1.

In the same way that you have bronze beard dwarfs, Wild Hammer and the others that my name went away.

You could have the Kaldorei as a Race and race allied to the Wardens and Highborns.

Or in the same way that you have 4 races of humans.

It's more like the Kaldorei have more diversity. Because the developers were too cheap to subdivide them into allied races like they did with the others.

[Razion]

Yes and no.
If I don't think the different types of Druid would agree to diverge.
What has the "Divercity" of the Kaldorei is that you have Cetinalas, Wardens, Druids and Highborns (and the Illidari).
You basically have 4 different towns functioning as 1.

In the same way that you have bronze beard dwarfs, Wild Hammer and the others that my name went away.

You could have the Kaldorei as a Race and race allied to the Wardens and Highborns.

Or in the same way that you have 4 races of humans.

It's more like the Kaldorei have more diversity. Because the developers were too cheap to subdivide them into allied races like they did with the others.

If we're talking body diversity, Trolls do have a bit. They have the Hulk variant, and the Bulky variants, neither of which are playable but exist as diverse body archetypes. Comparatively to Elves, they have as many options that are playable as races. There's also Zandalari. If we're breaking down even more sub-types that modify the models even less it can be a bit more granular, but if we were to break every single texture adjustment into another race potential I think that starts to bog down what really is culturally different because at that point we'd be adding skin number variant into the mix. Diversity in WoW is a lot more inclusive when it comes to skin colors among a race's own people, so usually when we look at Night Elves with lots of texture variety, and Trolls with lots of texture variety, there is a case to be made for Night Elves before being more inclusive of others of their own kind in regards to more of their offshoots within their own faction. But, with the Zandalari now in the mix and all Trolls more falling into the Troll Core set proper with all the recent customization tone sets, it begs the idea that Trolls have a lot more inclusivity recently in terms of texture totals and in terms of potential out there body variants - though there are less body variants currently playable.

Culturally, it seems Trolls have a lot more acceptance when it comes to body variants and colors, whereas for Elves we quite literally see faction lines drawn over these issues - hence Blood Elves and Void Elves, High Elves, Highborne, etc. The "diversity" of elves in this case, again, is more segregation.

[geco]

If we're talking body diversity, Trolls do have a bit. They have the Hulk variant, and the Bulky variants, neither of which are playable but exist as diverse body archetypes. Comparatively to Elves, they have as many options that are playable as races. There's also Zandalari. If we're breaking down even more sub-types that modify the models even less it can be a bit more granular, but if we were to break every single texture adjustment into another race potential I think that starts to bog down what really is culturally different because at that point we'd be adding skin number variant into the mix. Diversity in WoW is a lot more inclusive when it comes to skin colors among a race's own people, so usually when we look at Night Elves with lots of texture variety, and Trolls with lots of texture variety, there is a case to be made for Night Elves before being more inclusive of others of their own kind in regards to more of their offshoots within their own faction. But, with the Zandalari now in the mix and all Trolls more falling into the Troll Core set proper with all the recent customization tone sets, it begs the idea that Trolls have a lot more inclusivity recently in terms of texture totals and in terms of potential out there body variants - though there are less body variants currently playable.

Culturally, it seems Trolls have a lot more acceptance when it comes to body variants and colors, whereas for Elves we quite literally see faction lines drawn over these issues - hence Blood Elves and Void Elves, High Elves, Highborne, etc. The "diversity" of elves in this case, again, is more segregation.

Sure, but back the theme is "Night Elves". So it would be Night Elves vs. Black Spear Trolls.

But if it is all elves vs all trolls. I agree that the 4 sub-races of Highborns are basically the same from different countries.
I still do not understand how we have 4 races and "noble" but only 1 of common people.

[Rozz]

I'd argue the original troll empire (from what we see on Zandalar) was. It has actual diversity rather than just occupational differences. There are different tribes w/ unique physiques, different versions of the same religious system that are loa/tribe specific, and different overall races.

Also which version of NE society are we talking about? If it's present NEs, they at least have furbolgs and dryads but they can't claim NB since they aren't part of their empire anymore. That'd at least put them on the same level as the current Zandalari, but the Zandalari have more religious diversity since they have a pantheon of deities rather than just one.

[Hellspawn]

Its probably for the best that Nightborne did not join them, they already have enough stuff to cover on their own.

[Moonrage]

Are you bragging about it OP? Because it seems like a downside to me.

A people without any internal divison will always be stronger than a people which is very divided internally. And the Kaldorei are indeed very divided internally, Tyrande even slaughtered Maiev's followers once.

I am more impressed by a people like the Ren'dorei, who have 0 internal divisions and thus can much more easily focus on threats that must be dealt with, without petty internal bickering.

That was years ago, Tyrande and Maiev have likely put their differences aside. The Night Elves are probably more united than ever. The sentinels, priestesses, wardens, druids, and even highborne all fought together in the Darkshore warfront after all.

[Hellspawn]

That was years ago, Tyrande and Maiev have likely put their differences aside. The Night Elves are probably more united than ever. The sentinels, priestesses, wardens, druids, and even highborne all fought together in the Darkshore warfront after all.

Tyrande give Maiev command over the troops at Darkshore, there was one sentence from Maiev that acknowledged the disagreement that they had in the past.
So pretty much what you are saying is true.

[Varodoc]

That was years ago, Tyrande and Maiev have likely put their differences aside. The Night Elves are probably more united than ever. The sentinels, priestesses, wardens, druids, and even highborne all fought together in the Darkshore warfront after all.

And yet they are not truly united, since the Illidari Night elves serve Illidan, not Tyrande.

[Beloren]

Night elves have LGBTQ+ representation - he’s right. They are the most diverse.

The gay couple former night warriors
The moon priestess lovers
And they do more for traditional gender role swapping than any other race.

That makes them progressive. They tick the most diversity boxes

[geco]

And yet they are not truly united, since the Illidari Night elves serve Illidan, not Tyrande.

Despite what Anduin believes "united" and "follow the same leader" is not the same.
The Illadari have Maiev and Tyrande's forgiveness.

[Beloren]

Sure, but back the theme is "Night Elves". So it would be Night Elves vs. Black Spear Trolls.

But if it is all elves vs all trolls. I agree that the 4 sub-races of Highborns are basically the same from different countries.
I still do not understand how we have 4 races and "noble" but only 1 of common people.

That’s cos nobility is far more interesting in fantasy tropes than commoners. Hehe

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Despite what Anduin believes "united" and "follow the same leader" is not the same.
The Illadari have Maiev and Tyrande's forgiveness.

But they didn’t join the other night elves defending Ashenvale made Darkshore. Even the Highborne did. Nor were they there for the warfront.

Although does the factor that the player character , also the leader of the demon hunters counts as he was there if you okay a DH, so that would canonically include the Illidari too.

I’m sure there is special dialogue if you do the quest as the DH. So they are canonically inclusive.

[geco]

That’s cos nobility is far more interesting in fantasy tropes than commoners. Hehe

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But they didn’t join the other night elves defending Ashenvale made Darkshore. Even the Highborne did. Nor were they there for the warfront.

Although does the factor that the player character , also the leader of the demon hunters counts as he was there if you okay a DH, so that would canonically include the Illidari too.

I’m sure there is special dialogue if you do the quest as the DH. So they are canonically inclusive.

Neither did the Death Knights. Let's assume they were busy or something similar.
Why we go to the subject the whole History of the DH is that they did everything to save their race and then they let the Horde kill them.
Like it doesn't make sense.

[Varodoc]

Despite what Anduin believes "united" and "follow the same leader" is not the same.
The Illadari have Maiev and Tyrande's forgiveness.

Then where were the Illidari while Teldrassil burned?

[Florena]

They should have been their own faction, like in WC3. Devs wanted to add "playable Scourge" (their term from pictures of whiteboards) to WC3 and WoW, so NElves were shoehorned into the Alliance with zero explanation.

I think they could have easily explained it...it's just weird they either chose not to or it was rushed and never implemented.

[geco]

Then where were the Illidari while Teldrassil burned?

That question applies to let's say half of the WoW universe.
I mean, they didn't even let the Wardens defend Teldrazzil. Not even the Dranei lifted a finger.
I understand your point but for the amount of Illidiaris I don't see it as "valid".

[Varodoc]

That question applies to let's say half of the WoW universe.
I mean, they didn't even let the Wardens defend Teldrazzil. Not even the Dranei lifted a finger.
I understand your point but for the amount of Illidiaris I don't see it as "valid".

The Wardens redeemed themselves when they helped in the Darkshore Warfront anyway. The Draenei as per the table missions were evacuating citizens to the Azuremyst Isles. The Illidari? Nowhere to be seen.

What's the point of protecting the Kaldorei people from the Legion only to let them die to the Horde right after?

[geco]

The Wardens redeemed themselves when they helped in the Darkshore Warfront anyway. The Draenei as per the table missions were evacuating citizens to the Azuremyst Isles. The Illidari? Nowhere to be seen.

What's the point of protecting the Kaldorei people from the Legion only to let them die to the Horde right after?

Ok you are right. With the urination table I can no longer leave room for doubt.
If those guys proved to be as useful and clever as Illidian. Well ... I don't even know what we're trying for.

Now it comes to my mind that in one or two spans he finds a Story of Maiev making Sira and the reborn Kaldorei return home and somehow finally finds peace with the highborns and a message of "List the Kaldorei are reunited again after 20 years "

And literally everyone forgot that the Illidari existed.

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Ok you are right. With the urination table I can no longer leave room for doubt.
If those guys proved to be as useful and clever as Illidian. Well ... I don't even know what we're trying for.

Now it comes to my mind that in one or two spans he finds a Story of Maiev making Sira and the reborn Kaldorei return home and somehow finally finds peace with the highborns and a message of "List the Kaldorei are reunited again after 20 years "

And literally everyone forgot that the Illidari existed.

PS: Now you make me understand what that great difference was that Veian Tyrande and Malfurion always forgive Maiev and never Illidian.