9.1 Hunter Simulations

[Rine]

(Just posted this on the official, didnt want to leave out my MMO fam)

Well here it is. The cumulation of me having way to much free time.

9.1 Hunter Sims.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

Navigation is at the bottom. outside the dashboard you can see each data point referenced in the dashboard. Every dps point is a hyperlink to the simulation data.

This is super time consuming so at the moment Ive only completed soulbind sims. However all three specs are included (144 data points)

I would love a better way to display this information, so its not as overwhelming at a glace. Any advise or assistance is welcome.

Additional info:

Across the simulation types each spec simmed with the same lego, and the same spec.

While each soulbind is simmed, NONE of the conduits are simmed. The goal was to see the power of each soulbind, not the power differential of conduits.

9.1 sims are still in development, as such take this information with a grain of salt.

Faq-

What build? 9.1.0.38872 PTR git d8c4c921aa

Gear? 229 ilvl CN

Will you be adding more? I plan to, lego next and maybe trinkets.

Who are you? Porch

Why is X losing to Y? Because it does less damage within the conditions of the simulation parameters.

Special thanks to @Norrinir from the Simc community for helping me get my GUI working with the current build

Ill update this Faq as needed. In the meantime any feedback is much appreciated. Thanks guys!


-Update 6/14/2021
Legos added for all 3 specs, including covenant legos.
I will reorganize this information to graphs tomorrow.
There appears to be some APL data issue with a few sims.
I noted on each lego that may have an APL issue and will rerun after consulting with community
If you notice any concerns, please let me know.
NF lego at first glance appeared to be faulty data, however on further investigation DPE values are much higher for wildspirits with the legendary, than without it. so while the count rate remains the same it appears the game is simply adding the extra damage to a corresponding hit.

I will be adding a spec scaling page in in the next few days. Thanks for all your feedback guys.

** APL Issue found and reported to SIMC git. will continue to update

Update 6/20/2021

**Legendary sims recharted to work better at a glance. **

I want to touch briefly on my legendary testing methodology. As this can be done in several ways.
I used Night fae for all sims on all specs (not including covenant specific sims) NF performs well
in all 3 specs and I wanted to set a baseline to compare to the new covenant legos.

You may see some patchwerk or other numbers simming lower than expected (In some cases simming lower than
a NF hunter with no lego) This is because that covenant is performing that poorly in that instance.

TLDR Hunter convent legendarys are garbage (if this is the final tuning numbers for hunter convent legendarys)

**I’ve also posted scaling sims. Here’s how they work. **
1) All three specs simmed with the covenant they performed best with, weather that be patchwerk, or dungeon slice
2) Gear is default BIS CN gear
3) Gear is then scaled to 226-252-276-302
4) a MILLION different things can change these results: trinkets, talents, legos etc. This is a ROUGH estimate based on
RAW stat scaling.

Questions? Please post them. Ya’ll quiet af

[xyphon]

Hello Rine,

Nice that you took the time to invest that amount of time into simming all specs/covenants and soulbinds. I could not see or missed it and was wondering, what was the item level of your character while simming?

[Rine]

Hello Rine,

Nice that you took the time to invest that amount of time into simming all specs/covenants and soulbinds. I could not see or missed it and was wondering, what was the item level of your character while simming?

_{Thanks for the feedback xyphon! Good question, I should have added this to the faq. It's a T26 gear so 228ish I'll. I'll update the faq with the exact figure.}

[Rine]

-Update 6/14/2021
Legos added for all 3 specs, including covenant legos.
I will reorganize this information to graphs tomorrow.
There appears to be some APL data issue with a few sims.
I noted on each lego that may have an APL issue and will rerun after consulting with community
If you notice any concerns, please let me know.
NF lego at first glance appeared to be faulty data, however on further investigation DPE values are much higher for wildspirits with the legendary, than without it. so while the count rate remains the same it appears the game is simply adding the extra damage to a corresponding hit.

I will be adding a spec scaling page in in the next few days. Thanks for all your feedback guys.

** APL Issue found and reported to SIMC git. will continue to update

Update 6/20/2021

**Legendary sims recharted to work better at a glance. **

I want to touch briefly on my legendary testing methodology. As this can be done in several ways.
I used Night fae for all sims on all specs (not including covenant specific sims) NF performs well
in all 3 specs and I wanted to set a baseline to compare to the new covenant legos.

You may see some patchwerk or other numbers simming lower than expected (In some cases simming lower than
a NF hunter with no lego) This is because that covenant is performing that poorly in that instance.

TLDR Hunter convent legendarys are garbage (if this is the final tuning numbers for hunter convent legendarys)

**I’ve also posted scaling sims. Here’s how they work. **
1) All three specs simmed with the covenant they performed best with, weather that be patchwerk, or dungeon slice
2) Gear is default BIS CN gear
3) Gear is then scaled to 226-252-276-302
4) a MILLION different things can change these results: trinkets, talents, legos etc. This is a ROUGH estimate based on
RAW stat scaling.

Questions? Please post them. Ya’ll quiet af

[eschatological]

-snip-f

One note, your colors are inconsistent on your Scaling charts. BM is blue on one, red on the other, and vice versa for MM.

Otherwise, nice work.

[Rine]

One note, your colors are inconsistent on your Scaling charts. BM is blue on one, red on the other, and vice versa for MM.

Otherwise, nice work.

Fixed. Good eye! I appreciate and welcome feedback. You still a big boi raider btw?

[eschatological]

Fixed. Good eye! I appreciate and welcome feedback. You still a big boi raider btw?

Nope. But I might be this tier. Been mainly doing m+.

(and not on my hunter, lol).

[Phala]

slightly OT:
is there a more broad/general simulation (for all classes) for 9.1 to put these simulations (for each hunter combination) into perspective?

[Rine]

slightly OT:
is there a more broad/general simulation (for all classes) for 9.1 to put these simulations (for each hunter combination) into perspective?

I think icyveins is starting to run some sims, Im assuming they will be patchwerk. Either way they will post the outline with the information.

I know Toegrinder in the mage community has similar 9.1 sims.

Lastly my sims where done with out conduits as I wanted to compare soulbinds head to head without particular conduit strength affecting the outcome.

[Jackstraw]

Surv is comparable? I'm actually surprised.

We're probably looking at a Venthyr spread if numbers are so. Granted, the only viable legendary seems to be Wildfire still.

[Huanak]

Hi Rine

I did some simc with Ask MR Robot, the gear I pick is perfect stat for both spec (for BM, it have max cri and max haste, for MM, it have equal amount of crit and mastery)

please see result below, it is far difference from your result.

BM with Mythic bow, Nightfae = 8108 dps (Stats 40% Critical Strike, 30% Haste, 22% Mastery)
https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simul...89801de31768c5

BM with heroic weapon, Nightfae = 7677 dps
https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simul...a07ca832fd5d17

MM with Mythic weapon, Nightfae = 7530 dps (Stats 35% Critical Strike, 19% Mastery, 14% Haste, 2% Versatility )
https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simul...456f5c36e6787f

MM with heroic weapon, Nightfae = 7320 dps
https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simul...30b989d8cc9d19

also for compare, I did a Shadow priest with all 252 ilevel and 30% haste, result is 7500dps

so if ASK MR ROBBOT is correct, then BM will far above MM ?

--------------

for more simc compare nightfar vs kyrian: (all heroic weapon)

BM 7864 dps Nightfae https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simul...bf71c1e9ac491d
BM 8062 dps Kyrian Pelagos https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simul...71a7f3ce202f1c
BM 8024 dps Kyrian Mikani https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simul...faf7f72778e227


MM 7320 dps Nightfae https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simul...30b989d8cc9d19
MM 7489 dps Kyrian Pelagos https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simul...1f4a75b8d8de11
MM 7526 dps Kyrian Mikani https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simul...d0c0e46515124b


can someone please tell me something wrong here, otherwise we should go Kyrian BM in 9.1!!

PS Wailing Arrow from legendary bow deal about 2.5% of total damage

[Rine]

Hi Rine

I did some simc with Ask MR Robot, the gear I pick is perfect stat for both spec (for BM, it have max cri and max haste, for MM, it have equal amount of crit and mastery)

please see result below, it is far difference from your result.

BM with Mythic bow, Nightfae = 8108 dps (Stats 40% Critical Strike, 30% Haste, 22% Mastery)
https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simul...89801de31768c5

BM with heroic weapon, Nightfae = 7677 dps
https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simul...a07ca832fd5d17

MM with Mythic weapon, Nightfae = 7530 dps (Stats 35% Critical Strike, 19% Mastery, 14% Haste, 2% Versatility )
https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simul...456f5c36e6787f

MM with heroic weapon, Nightfae = 7320 dps
https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simul...30b989d8cc9d19

also for compare, I did a Shadow priest with all 252 ilevel and 30% haste, result is 7500dps

so if ASK MR ROBBOT is correct, then BM will far above MM ?

--------------

for more simc compare nightfar vs kyrian: (all heroic weapon)

BM 7864 dps Nightfae https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simul...bf71c1e9ac491d
BM 8062 dps Kyrian Pelagos https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simul...71a7f3ce202f1c
BM 8024 dps Kyrian Mikani https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simul...faf7f72778e227


MM 7320 dps Nightfae https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simul...30b989d8cc9d19
MM 7489 dps Kyrian Pelagos https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simul...1f4a75b8d8de11
MM 7526 dps Kyrian Mikani https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simul...d0c0e46515124b


can someone please tell me something wrong here, otherwise we should go Kyrian BM in 9.1!!

PS Wailing Arrow from legendary bow deal about 2.5% of total damage

Hi Huanak!

I cannot comment on you being right, or wrong on these sims as I do not use Mr. robot and while Im assuming its simply webhooking to run in Simulationcraft, I simply do not know.

Additionally I did no sims in 9.1 gear. All my sims where done in CN gear, minus my scaling sims which where done in CN gear stat scaled to higher ilvl's.

Kyrian is looking to be the best in overall in 9.1, my current sims show it underperforming in ST, however my pelagos sims are not working with all his soulbinds, which means damage is left on the table (essentially flawed data)

If I get some time over the next few days I will run some BIS 9.1 sims and see where everything lines up.

Lastly Azor is expected to release his 9.1 guide this weekend and that will likely answer these questions with more authority than I can.


PS I will be taking my sims down in the next 24 hours as some of the data is now outdated, and some not needed with Azors guide approaching. I may reopen it in the future with updated numbers and and additional fields (trinkets etc) if the community has a demand.

[Dracodraco]

I haven't posted in years.
Please just don't post anything again. Your sims are a detriment to the community at large. What you posted on the NA forums (where I could not write because I'm on an EU account) and here is wrong on so many levels that it fucking hurts. Let those of us that actually knows what we are doing figure stuff out and just sit back and relax. You're using dungeon slice which should never be used because the APLs are not optimized for the way the simulation works, you're using the base APL instead of the more optimized versions that people that *actually knows how to do this* have come up with based on the new soulbinds/kyrian damage profile, and you are just throwing numbers out before things are implemented that people are looking at and believing. Please, just go to a different class that might appreciate wildly inaccurate information, or maybe come join the hunter discord so you can be told when something you do is stupid, instead of trying to sound like an authority on this topic when you are not.

Also, https://i.imgur.com/FqaGxj4.png
If you actually go look through my post history, you'll see I was one of the people doing a lot of the legwork back in Cata/MOP (before simulations took over).
Where did you contribute back then, and under what name? Because you are totally unknown to me as both Rine (new account on here) and Porch.

[Tanis]

Hey Rine,

I see you're a long time member of this forum. I too have been around awhile. I started playing WoW in Beta, picked up my copy of Vanilla from GameStop on the first day of retail release, and have been playing ever since (this is my third account on this forum). I've mained hunter since the third week of release, and have around 580 days played, give or take. I only say this so people realize I am very sincere when I thank people like Dracodraco, who have contributed to the game and player community in the past. He has been of tremendous value to the hunter community and I've used many of his simulations and analysis to ensure I was playing my hunter as well as possible (even though I am a fairly casual player). Now that some of the previous contributors are no longer supporting this community, I'm happy to see folks like yourself pickup the tools available and attempt to inform the rest of us that don't have the time or energy to do it ourselves.

I'm hoping you can refine what you've started, by correcting the issues identified by Dracodraco, and coordinate your efforts with others doing the same via Discord and this site, so that the final products are accurate and consistent. Again, I appreciate your efforts, it takes a lot of time to understand the mechanics, tools and APLs in order to do this well. There is a learning curve but I'm sure you'll master it and continue to contribute to the community. Thanks.

[Rine]

I haven't posted in years.
Please just don't post anything again. Your sims are a detriment to the community at large. What you posted on the NA forums (where I could not write because I'm on an EU account) and here is wrong on so many levels that it fucking hurts. Let those of us that actually knows what we are doing figure stuff out and just sit back and relax. You're using dungeon slice which should never be used because the APLs are not optimized for the way the simulation works, you're using the base APL instead of the more optimized versions that people that *actually knows how to do this* have come up with based on the new soulbinds/kyrian damage profile, and you are just throwing numbers out before things are implemented that people are looking at and believing. Please, just go to a different class that might appreciate wildly inaccurate information, or maybe come join the hunter discord so you can be told when something you do is stupid, instead of trying to sound like an authority on this topic when you are not.

Also, https://i.imgur.com/FqaGxj4.png
If you actually go look through my post history, you'll see I was one of the people doing a lot of the legwork back in Cata/MOP (before simulations took over).
Where did you contribute back then, and under what name? Because you are totally unknown to me as both Rine (new account on here) and Porch.

Dracodraco,

I don't need to look over your post history, I remember a few topics we both contributed to and in fact I believe we where both playing in MOP beta during t14 testing.

I remember you as a respected member of the community.

During cata i was in a top 20 US raiding guild. As im sure you know (I believe you where similarly ranked) website recruiters often posted on top guild forms asking players to write guides or run sims for cash. It was not much but a few hundred bucks here and there. Some of these websites are around most of them are not. And to be frank I only wrote 2 guides and ran a small handful of sims. Some of my guildies stayed much busier.

I did not play under Porch or Rine. Nor do I feel the name to disclose my old account info to prove anything.

I keep hearing this "people who actually know what there doing." thing. And I want to put this absurdity to rest.

There is nothing magical or difficult about running sims. Any laymen can do it. there is no prequalification and misinformation is not on the person posting the sim, rather the conditions of the sim and its interaction with the APL version.

That being said lets talk about some of your concerns.

1) there is nothing inherently wrong with dungeon slice, any APL issues affecting dungeon slice would similarly affect add cleave. The prob is people don't understand it.

Here is how it works: DungeonSlice approximates a "slice" of a BfA M+ (roughly equivalent to an M10). A single boss mob followed by alternating large/weak trash packs (4-6 mobs for 15 seconds) and small/strong trash packs (1-3 mobs for 30 seconds). Fight length locked to 6 minutes, int/fort/shout/bloodlust always enabled.

2) "you're using the base APL instead of the more optimized versions that people that *actually knows how to do this* have come up with based on the new soulbinds/kyrian damage profile"

Im using the APL for 9.1 ptr under the build listed in my post. yes there was APL errors (etc pelagos soulbind "newfound resolve" not applying the buff") and that is because the APL had not been adjusted for that. and i made it very clear in my original post, these are ptr sims take them with a grain of salt.

3) Any APL issues I noticed I reported to the forums, noted on the sim in the spreadsheet and sent the issue to the simc git.

4) Even if you disagree with the dungeon slice simulations, I posted numerous others so you and everyone could cross verify information

5) This data was NEVER ment to be taken as end all be all of 9.1 simulations. It was designed to take the information I had at the time, with the simc build available to the public and help people decide if they wanted to level another covenant before the patch. A head start.

6) While there where a few issues i pointed out above the sims where accurate to the build, and dates it was posted. This information quickly became out of date and therefore I took down the spreadsheet.


@Tanis

Thanks for the feedback buddy. I appreciate your optimism and tact in efforts to encourage me, yet hold me accountable.

"I'm hoping you can refine what you've started, by correcting the issues identified by Dracodraco, and coordinate your efforts with others doing the same via Discord "

Some if not most of the best hunters in the world are in that discord and there is a lot of help and good information.

However one of the reasons I am not a participating member is what you see here. Some members have forced discussions like this into an echo chamber of elitism. The idea that only those with the background like Azor or Draco can participate in theory crafting is toxic and reductive.

After posting this spreadsheet I've had the opportunity to talk to: Data scientist, Math majors, coders and other people who don't play at the top of the wow elite, but are degreed professionals that have solid feedback and information on this topic.

And one thing these people had in common? They didn't want to come out with their ideas, or suggestions because of the treatment you see here.

We could have 20 Azors, but we have 1.

So I will continue to publish my data. I will continue to take criticism. I will continue my accountability of what I'm displaying.

@Haters Keep the hate coming its delicious.

[Dracodraco]

Dracodraco,

I don't need to look over your post history, I remember a few topics we both contributed to and in fact I believe we where both playing in MOP beta during t14 testing.

I remember you as a respected member of the community.

During cata i was in a top 20 US raiding guild. As im sure you know (I believe you where similarly ranked) website recruiters often posted on top guild forms asking players to write guides or run sims for cash. It was not much but a few hundred bucks here and there. Some of these websites are around most of them are not. And to be frank I only wrote 2 guides and ran a small handful of sims. Some of my guildies stayed much busier.

I did not play under Porch or Rine. Nor do I feel the name to disclose my old account info to prove anything.

"Oh I was totally legit, never mind the fact that I posted on these forums on this account never contributing anything at the time that I am suggesting I was a top end player/contributer".
Checks out.

I keep hearing this "people who actually know what there doing." thing. And I want to put this absurdity to rest.

There is nothing magical or difficult about running sims. Any laymen can do it. there is no prequalification and misinformation is not on the person posting the sim, rather the conditions of the sim and its interaction with the APL version.

Then why are you doing it wrong and giving out bad information?

That being said lets talk about some of your concerns.

1) there is nothing inherently wrong with dungeon slice, any APL issues affecting dungeon slice would similarly affect add cleave. The prob is people don't understand it.

Here is how it works: DungeonSlice approximates a "slice" of a BfA M+ (roughly equivalent to an M10). A single boss mob followed by alternating large/weak trash packs (4-6 mobs for 15 seconds) and small/strong trash packs (1-3 mobs for 30 seconds). Fight length locked to 6 minutes, int/fort/shout/bloodlust always enabled.

Lets. You're misunderstanding what the issue is.
The APL simply doesn't work with dungeon slice, because dungeon slice also simulates *DOWNTIME*. This results in sims for dungeon slice doing retarded bullshit like this:

https://i.imgur.com/kSw3f1B.png

where it pops a cooldown because it is the optimal thing to do when a target is alive, then going AFK for the entire duration of that cooldown (and not lining it up with trueshot, thus desyncing the two abilities, because the add dies before you're supposed to pop trueshot in the APL).
You would know that dungeon slice has been largely useless for *quite a while* - it was designed back in your supposed glory days. It has not been updated or adjusted since, despite many people asking to let them contribute to do so. This is why we do not use Dungeon slice for sim results, *ever*. It is simply wrong.

2) "you're using the base APL instead of the more optimized versions that people that *actually knows how to do this* have come up with based on the new soulbinds/kyrian damage profile"

Im using the APL for 9.1 ptr under the build listed in my post. yes there was APL errors (etc pelagos soulbind "newfound resolve" not applying the buff") and that is because the APL had not been adjusted for that. and i made it very clear in my original post, these are ptr sims take them with a grain of salt.

1: You're mixing and matching words you don't understand.
APL = Action priority list. What your simulation wants to do in any given situation.
What you are referencing, such as Newfound resolve not being implemented, is not an "APL error" - it's simply just an ability that isn't implemented.
2: When I say "APL optimisation", I mean stuff like pooling focus/aimed shot charges for the resonating arrow window, optimizing Mikanikos CDR on resonating arrow by syncing it with other cooldowns and the like.

It is, quite honestly, *frightening* that you don't know what the APL actually is.

3) Any APL issues I noticed I reported to the forums, noted on the sim in the spreadsheet and sent the issue to the simc git.

Again - not actually the APL my dude. There was no APL "issues"; just wasn't optimised for new stuff when you tried simming. There was unimplemented abilities, but *again*, that has nothing to do with an APL.

4) Even if you disagree with the dungeon slice simulations, I posted numerous others so you and everyone could cross verify information

And most of them were wrong as well, because as stated above, you posted simulations using a night-fae optimised APL looking at kyrian. You never changed gems (despite Kyrian preferring mastery to crit, because of the innate crit from resonating arrow), you never did *anything* except just throw two sims up with different very rudimentary and frankly quite useless parameters.

5) This data was NEVER ment to be taken as end all be all of 9.1 simulations. It was designed to take the information I had at the time, with the simc build available to the public and help people decide if they wanted to level another covenant before the patch. A head start.

And it was wrong. So very, very wrong. You want to give people a head start, you don't feed them wrong information saying "well MAYBE I'm right". Come fucking join us on Discord if you want to contribute instead of this bullshit - if you actually want to put in effort, we'll be happy to have you, but holy shit will we get pissed if you keep spewing out sims that are so unbelieveably biased and wrong as the ones you did this time around.

6) While there where a few issues i pointed out above the sims where accurate to the build, and dates it was posted. This information quickly became out of date and therefore I took down the spreadsheet.

Your issue is that you don't understand the parameters you should be setting, or the workarounds to get stuff working that isn't inherently obvious (like the fact that we spent most of the ptr cycle substituting Mikanikos' soulglow trait with Nadjia's dauntless duelist, because it has an error margin of 2 dps and thus gives a great picture of how strong the trait would be once implemented, or the fact that you're not changing gems/trinkets around to benefit the specific covenant, or the fact that you would use good gear for one covenant, bad for another and so forth). The information became out of date before you even posted it, because you were always weeks behind the actual information available.

However one of the reasons I am not a participating member is what you see here. Some members have forced discussions like this into an echo chamber of elitism. The idea that only those with the background like Azor or Draco can participate in theory crafting is toxic and reductive.

This is absolute horseshit. All of the hunter TC is done largely in the public spec channels, with anyone who wants able to participate and contribute - which *you'd know if you actually bothered to participate*. I am aware that OTHER specs have a much more closed off approach to contribution, but that has not been the case for hunters. Heck, one of the most dedicated guys we've got is someone you probably don't even know the name of, because he's relatively new to the community and never participated "back in the day".

After posting this spreadsheet I've had the opportunity to talk to: Data scientist, Math majors, coders and other people who don't play at the top of the wow elite, but are degreed professionals that have solid feedback and information on this topic.

And one thing these people had in common? They didn't want to come out with their ideas, or suggestions because of the treatment you see here.

All of this sounds great on paper, but there is literally zero proof or truth to it except "believe me, I know all of these super intelligent people who could literally solve cancer in a week, but hunter TC is toxic so they don't wanna ever even try to speak to anyone except me, because I am the light that shines in the dark".

Fuck, Tarlo isn't even remotely part of the "wow elite" but he's probably one of the most dedicated TC/Tinkerers we have. What you're saying is just an excuse.

Come fucking join us and learn instead of doing dumb shit that will lead people down roads that we inevitably will have to fix later when you turn out to be wrong.

[Jayeazy]

really no need to try to imitate the Effin v Azor glory days again there's more to it than just him now, I think you'd be surprised almost all of it comes from people you won't recognize and how easy people that want to contribute can onboard

if there's any impression that anyone's trying to gatekeep it's probably from people not doing much just being loud and giving off that vibe, if that's the impression you're getting right now I wouldn't consider it much cause for concern as I'd hardly consider Draco part of anything that gets done

the majority of stuff happening is more centralized than the good old days but that's for the better and it doesn't eliminate competition or anyones identity if they want, you may even catch certain competing guidewriters politely debating their ideas before going live with content :^)

nobody gets called dumb by anyone relevant for asking questions or for ideas that don't work out, none of the active people try to be exclusive or elitist, it just gives you extensive resources if you want to make use of them, and everyone gains

[Rine]

Lets. You're misunderstanding what the issue is.
The APL simply doesn't work with dungeon slice, because dungeon slice also simulates *DOWNTIME*. This results in sims for dungeon slice doing retarded bullshit like this:

https://i.imgur.com/kSw3f1B.png

where it pops a cooldown because it is the optimal thing to do when a target is alive, then going AFK for the entire duration of that cooldown (and not lining it up with trueshot, thus desyncing the two abilities, because the add dies before you're supposed to pop trueshot in the APL).
You would know that dungeon slice has been largely useless for *quite a while* - it was designed back in your supposed glory days. It has not been updated or adjusted since, despite many people asking to let them contribute to do so. This is why we do not use Dungeon slice for sim results, *ever*. It is simply wrong.

Weird, its almost like in s dungeon. When your tank has to run to a new pack, or wait for an event to start........Odd dungeon slice would mimic dungeon conditions....

What you are referencing, such as Newfound resolve not being implemented, is not an "APL error" - it's simply just an ability that isn't implemented.

The only accurate thing you said. You got me there

2: When I say "APL optimisation", I mean stuff like pooling focus/aimed shot charges for the resonating arrow window, optimizing Mikanikos CDR on resonating arrow by syncing it with other cooldowns and the like.

It is, quite honestly, *frightening* that you don't know what the APL actually is.

Bit of the pot calling the kettle black it seems to me.

The APL IS optimized for rotational changes. let me show you how it works.

Here is an example.

chimaera_shot,if=buff.precise_shots.up|focus>cost+action.aimed_shot.cost

you see "focus>cost+action.aimed_shot.cost" here a chimaera is only used if focus is greater than the cost of chimaera shot+aimed shot, ensuring you have enough focus for an aimed shot in the event it comes off CD

This is literally how APLs work, its an action list prioritized by programed conditions.

Now if your saying "optimization" as in "xyz" has not been added, or is not working. That is 100% of the time. The Simc team is constantly readjusting the APL.

Again - not actually the APL my dude. There was no APL "issues"; just wasn't optimised for new stuff when you tried simming. There was unimplemented abilities, but *again*, that has nothing to do with an APL.

https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/issues/5976

IDK Draco, I reported this APL issue and a guy that actually works on these things readjusted the APL, here let me show you.



Looks like it was an issue....

Come fucking join us and learn

Ill pass vader

[Dracodraco]

Weird, its almost like in s dungeon. When your tank has to run to a new pack, or wait for an event to start........Odd dungeon slice would mimic dungeon conditions....

But do you not see how stupid using those results are? No actual player would ever fire off a resonating arrow when a single mob has 5% hp left - so evaluating the specs strength on a sim-module that makes the "player" do dumb stuff like that is crazy; It doesn't give you the right picture of how the spec *actually works in a dungeon*, because *it doesn't play like you would in a dungeon*. It may have a decade ago. It does not anymore.

Bit of the pot calling the kettle black it seems to me.

The APL IS optimized for rotational changes. let me show you how it works.

Here is an example.

chimaera_shot,if=buff.precise_shots.up|focus>cost+action.aimed_shot.cost

you see "focus>cost+action.aimed_shot.cost" here a chimaera is only used if focus is greater than the cost of chimaera shot+aimed shot, ensuring you have enough focus for an aimed shot in the event it comes off CD

This is literally how APLs work, its an action list prioritized by programed conditions.

Now if your saying "optimization" as in "xyz" has not been added, or is not working. That is 100% of the time. The Simc team is constantly readjusting the APL.

The point is that APL optimisations were already done but not yet implemented when you released your sims, because there is zero reason to push APL lines that might get changed in the next PTR build due to sudden changes. They're only added once people are sure things are reasonably correct.

https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/issues/5976

IDK Draco, I reported this APL issue and a guy that actually works on these things readjusted the APL, here let me show you.



Looks like it was an issue....

Ok? I don't know what happens with survival my dude - thyminde is the only one who plays the spec, and I'm fairly sure she can spot errors and fix them on her own. Wether that's something you made her do or she just did on her own I obviously can't say, but this isn't the sort of "error" that was ever pointed out - the errors I was talking about were in regards to unimplemented abilities that were available if you'd just come and asked us rather than gone out on your own and started throwing random sims with bad setups everywhere.
The reason we don't do sheets like the one you made is because the data is meaningless, and gullible people will believe you on your word because you sound smart even if what you're saying is useless - and it's everyone else who has to un-teach them what you've taught.

Ill pass vader

Literally stop being a dick and just actually speak with us before posting tons of shit so you can get it peer reviewed instead of going off on your own and forcing your shitty conclusions on gullible people who has no reason to know any better. Jesus.

Also, Jay, I know you want more recognition for the shit you do with SimC and implementation, but lets not take that whole "holier than thou" attitude with gatekeeping when you might be the single most snide and condescending person in the entire discord - you throw your toys out of the pram whenever something happens that you specifically didn't rubberstamp. If that's not gatekeeping, I do not know what is :d.

[Tanis]

Well Draco, I don't know you or Rine except from your posts. But if you really want him to engage in order to improve his results, then you may want to provide constructive criticism instead of condescension and insults. I'm sure you'd get many more people willing to contribute if they didn't feel attacked. Let's try to remember, this is a fucking game. You're not designing the space shuttle.