If all raids of BC were open directly after launch...

[clevin]

All of them? In the first ID? No. Mostly because of time. My midrange guild clears Kara and Gruul first reset but I doubt they'd have cleared BT etc and I don't think even top guilds would. The gear disparity of freshly dinged 70s and T5 (or even T5 end bosses) is too much, I think.

Within the first month? Absolutely.

[kranur]

Everything that is not a gear check can be cleared if available. Strats are available and in some cases people have years of experience with hundreds of kills in this content.

[callipygoustp]

If all raids of BC were open directly after launch would all of them be cleared within the first ID?

Undoubtedly.

[Ohvul]

Have your entire guild level a new character 58tp 70 once sunwell hits and see.


Honestly I'm surprised this was never recorded during classic, I think it'd be interesting to see a guild of people starting fresh just to see how long it takes them to go from digging 60 and how many molten core clears before their first Kt kill.

As for bc, I actually think it would be much quicker than vanilla, 25 players needing gear is huge, I could see 2 or 3 weeks. 3 weeks if its 1 solid comp, 2 if you do crazy split runs and inter changing of raid comps. Then again that would depend on your luck with drops as well. Sunwell trash farming and having classes which utilize the early drops in there in order to help clear the higher gear checks of BT and Hyjal would be a definite necessity.

Sunwell is where it would become tight, if you're lucky with drops, get a warglaive pair and decent trinkets before you step in against your first brutallus attempt you have a solid chance within 3 resets.

Overall I could see t4 and t5 clears in week 1, split running t4 allowing 1 t5 clear. Then trash farming and possible a couple bosses in hyjal.
Zul aman makes it interesting... again split running to funnel gear for top 5 of each of your 10 crews.

Possibly allowing for week 1 clears of:
Kara, gruuls, mag
Tk, SSC, ZA
Week 2 clears of hyjal and bt with split runs possibly being possible.
By week 3 you would have per character in your main raid:
5 ZA clears, 3 karazhan, tk, ssc, gruuls, mags
2 hyjal and BT clears.
All with the possibility of gear funneling since ZA gearing week 1 would allow you to funnel gear from every other raid into your final 25-30 choice for sunwell. Honestly with ZA i could see it being week 2 sunwell down.

[Easyclassictopkeklel]

With all the attunements etc? Prenerf? No way.
T4 is pretty easy when you got highend classic gear because stat scaling isn't as crazy as in retail. But to lets say kill Lady Vashj prenerf in a week...without the "clever use of mechanics" and shit gear? Nah dude. Just because there isn't enough time and people need to sleep at some point. ^^

[ArCaN1St]

Sunwell being open means 2.3 and 2.4 badge gear is avaible, and kara bosses dropping badges. You can get something like 50 badges per day by clearing all the heroics inluding MgT. That means you can get all the 2.4 badge gear (equal to t5 in quality) in the first reset. Also you can funnel raid gear by clearing all the content excluding sunwell with multiple raids with alts.
My bet is that it's possible to clear SWP the first reset, but it would take insane amount of sleep deprivation.

[kranur]

Have your entire guild level a new character 58tp 70 once sunwell hits and see.


Honestly I'm surprised this was never recorded during classic, I think it'd be interesting to see a guild of people starting fresh just to see how long it takes them to go from digging 60 and how many molten core clears before their first Kt kill.

As for bc, I actually think it would be much quicker than vanilla, 25 players needing gear is huge, I could see 2 or 3 weeks. 3 weeks if its 1 solid comp, 2 if you do crazy split runs and inter changing of raid comps. Then again that would depend on your luck with drops as well. Sunwell trash farming and having classes which utilize the early drops in there in order to help clear the higher gear checks of BT and Hyjal would be a definite necessity.

Sunwell is where it would become tight, if you're lucky with drops, get a warglaive pair and decent trinkets before you step in against your first brutallus attempt you have a solid chance within 3 resets.

Overall I could see t4 and t5 clears in week 1, split running t4 allowing 1 t5 clear. Then trash farming and possible a couple bosses in hyjal.
Zul aman makes it interesting... again split running to funnel gear for top 5 of each of your 10 crews.

Possibly allowing for week 1 clears of:
Kara, gruuls, mag
Tk, SSC, ZA
Week 2 clears of hyjal and bt with split runs possibly being possible.
By week 3 you would have per character in your main raid:
5 ZA clears, 3 karazhan, tk, ssc, gruuls, mags
2 hyjal and BT clears.
All with the possibility of gear funneling since ZA gearing week 1 would allow you to funnel gear from every other raid into your final 25-30 choice for sunwell. Honestly with ZA i could see it being week 2 sunwell down.

Split running with what? You do realize split running requires everyone to have 2 level 70 right?

[Ohvul]

Split running with what? You do realize split running requires everyone to have 2 level 70 right?

Since when can your raid roster not exceed your progression team?

Gear funneling two raids requires 50 level 70s.

[SinR]

one ID? I doubt that.

within the first month is far far more likely.

[Tojara]

Probably week two, but only because of time constraints.

Then again, Molten Core and Onyxia were cleared on the first reset with a leveling curve that takes 3-4x longer than 60-70 does in TBC. Granted starting from scratch in Vanilla and doing super easy content is a bit different than starting with absolutely BiS gear from Vanilla doing slightly harder content.

Your best bet would be to have a pretty big guild and funnel gear to specific people, just so you can have the best geared people possible to enter Sunwell with. Essentially having a group of 50 people funneling to half of their guild to make a super group at the end, if that was even necessary. Nothing really prior to Sunwell had any real difficult DPS checks (yes, even BT didn't really have them) and anything that would be considered difficult would be made easier by just bringing the best composition possible to deal with the content to begin with.

It's a weird question to answer though because having everything available means that everything prior is changed as well. Basically meaning badges drop from everywhere, the content is 'easier' than it would be in it's own patch cycle, and certain attunements are flat out removed or made easier to get through.

[FuxieDK]

would all of them be cleared within the first ID? I remember a (Chinese?) guild that cleared BT in T3 gear. The only problems were bosses with high raid-wide damage (like Najentus water shield that did ~9k damage to all raid members).

Player knowledge and hardware >>>>>>>>>> character gear

So Kil'jaeden should be dead within three days?

The guild <Undergeared> during WotLK springs to mind.

They raided 3 hours per week. Only in green/blue items, no professions allowed. They managed to clear 8/12 (normal) ICC.

[kranur]

Since when can your raid roster not exceed your progression team?

Gear funneling two raids requires 50 level 70s.

So in 1 week, getting 2 chars to 70, then split running t4, t5 and the finishing off t6 and Sunwell sounds possible?
Ok .. I guess I got too old.

[StaeleAilar]

Of course. Yes they were hard back in the day im sure. But these days you have the 17 year old guides to explain everything in explicit detail and how to perfectly deal with it.

[Ohvul]

So in 1 week, getting 2 chars to 70, then split running t4, t5 and the finishing off t6 and Sunwell sounds possible?
Ok .. I guess I got too old.

Split runs dont require two characters per account/person idk where this reasoning comes from. Bc isn't hard, you just need a roster large enough and willing to commit to no lifing the first week getting their one character pre raid bis. Then of that 50 to 75 person raid roster you prioritize loot to the top 10 to 15 of each raid so that in week 2 or 3 the groups can be shaken up to optimize for sunwell. It would be like now going on any realm and taking the top 4 geared players from each guild for next weeks reset.

[kranur]

Split runs dont require two characters per account/person idk where this reasoning comes from. Bc isn't hard, you just need a roster large enough and willing to commit to no lifing the first week getting their one character pre raid bis. Then of that 50 to 75 person raid roster you prioritize loot to the top 10 to 15 of each raid so that in week 2 or 3 the groups can be shaken up to optimize for sunwell. It would be like now going on any realm and taking the top 4 geared players from each guild for next weeks reset.

Ah, my bad, so you just need a second team of basically dispensable tools, kek.

[Vakna]

Propably yes.
People allways say "no way to hard"
But in the end it will be done anyway. Same with Ragnaros HC in cata LK HC in wotlk. Every last one of those will be dead the day it will be released.

Not by the normal player but there are always people who find a way to explot a mechanic (in a blizz-conform way) to clear content. Especially if these bosses are as simple as the BC bosses. SO i don't see a reason why it wouldn't be cleared week one.

LK maybe, Rag I doubt.

WotLK Naxx however, will probably be cleared before they even reach level 80. Wrath difficulty level was an absolute joke with the exception of maybe 2 bosses. It was a giant step backwards to almost Vanilla levels rather than a step forwards.

Once you get to Cata the game actually gets challenging. The 15 year knowledge of strats stops mattering and you also need to just be a very good player. Most of these "high end" Classic guilds would not last long in a modern mythic raid, and Cata is where it starts looking similar to modern raids.

[Ohvul]

Ah, my bad, so you just need a second team of basically dispensable tools, kek.

Progressing that way from a numbers perspective will always be most optimal longterm. The sooner you have 1 group that can clear sunwell and benefit from using the lockout, the sooner a second group can reach that point when viewed as a gear check. I'm sure quite the majority of people at 70 by now (end of week 2) wouldnt be far beyond mid ssc. Meaning split runs of all of t5 and some of t6 would be sacrificing nothing to the individual for the first 2 weeks. The large group benefits more as a whole within 4 weeks of the expansion as total loot per person possible.

[Malania]

No. Honestly I think they'd probably have trouble meeting the DPS and Healing requirements for some of the later tier 5 bosses. They still have enrages. As I recall you needed a minimum amount of HP to survive being 1 shot by the first boss of BT Naj'entus' spike he did every what 30-40s to break his shield. People who didn't have the gear from previous raids with the increased stam etc had to take PVP gear to meet the min requirements.

I think people are forgetting a lot of requirements including the resist gear some if the bosses required of the tanks and the entire raid that can't be gained week one.

Edit: Yeah you could gear funnel to meet some of the checks needed but specific crafted gear was still needed. There wouldn't be enough time in the week to funnel everything.

[Heathy]

the problem is still nightbane, you have to kill nightbane to get attuned to ssc, to get the quest chain for nightbane, requires honored with the voilet eye. you can get honoured in one full run, but for a 25 man to have 25 ppl attuned to ssc you need 3x 10 mans. to complete the ssc attunement, which means 30 ppl getting to the point where they can run slave pens heroic for the quest. clear karazhan for honored and the nighbane quest chain, which involves doing shattered halls and sethekk halls, not terribly difficult but time consuming, you probably aren't going to pause your 10 man raid to run two 5 mans. likewise would you get 5 ppl to no life the shit out of the game, and not get to raid the 25s. probably not. gunna need 5 spare dudes who are happy with their try harding ending at prince. trying to do some of ssc and tk in t3 and quest rewards, some of it is likely very possible (like lurker) but other encounters are going to be noticeable, especially the lack of tank gear (morogrim). this is about whether or not its possible, even if it were possible its just highly improbable. I don't see it lining up in such a way that you manage to pull a perfect comp out of thin air that levels together in 6 dedicated 5 mans, even then you'd still end up with too many tanks and not enough dps.

[aeuhe4yxzhds]

They would probably clear to sunwell or late BT

I believe this was confirmed to be speculation without proof, all we had was a screen shot of people dancing in front of Illidan's corpse and it's likely some of the raid put on their T3 for mog purposes. They had 2 months from launch to attune and kill Illidan iirc.
However, let's say they did kill Illidan with a few pieces of T3. They had access to boss kill videos by then so it's feasible they knew the strats long before pulling it, kind of like today.
Seeing how fast tanks get deleted in T4 raids right now without gear beyond T3, I highly doubt anything past T5 would be cleared within the first week. I don't care how good you are, any tank can get parry thrashed and deleted right now.
Later on we may see the return of 25 level 18 Warlocks outside Sunwell to Soul Stone entire raids but I really hope not, disgusting gameplay.

Back then, didn't asia/china have a different game? I seem to have some memory of TBC being released way later over there and with the latest content?

Split running with what? You do realize split running requires everyone to have 2 level 70 right?

Awww how cute, he thinks splits now a day is only locked in to a single person

Have your entire guild level a new character 58tp 70 once sunwell hits and see.


Honestly I'm surprised this was never recorded during classic, I think it'd be interesting to see a guild of people starting fresh just to see how long it takes them to go from digging 60 and how many molten core clears before their first Kt kill.

As for bc, I actually think it would be much quicker than vanilla, 25 players needing gear is huge, I could see 2 or 3 weeks. 3 weeks if its 1 solid comp, 2 if you do crazy split runs and inter changing of raid comps. Then again that would depend on your luck with drops as well. Sunwell trash farming and having classes which utilize the early drops in there in order to help clear the higher gear checks of BT and Hyjal would be a definite necessity.

Sunwell is where it would become tight, if you're lucky with drops, get a warglaive pair and decent trinkets before you step in against your first brutallus attempt you have a solid chance within 3 resets.

Overall I could see t4 and t5 clears in week 1, split running t4 allowing 1 t5 clear. Then trash farming and possible a couple bosses in hyjal.
Zul aman makes it interesting... again split running to funnel gear for top 5 of each of your 10 crews.

Possibly allowing for week 1 clears of:
Kara, gruuls, mag
Tk, SSC, ZA
Week 2 clears of hyjal and bt with split runs possibly being possible.
By week 3 you would have per character in your main raid:
5 ZA clears, 3 karazhan, tk, ssc, gruuls, mags
2 hyjal and BT clears.
All with the possibility of gear funneling since ZA gearing week 1 would allow you to funnel gear from every other raid into your final 25-30 choice for sunwell. Honestly with ZA i could see it being week 2 sunwell down.

I wish i was a streamer or someone else with a huge following, during the waiting period of launch for classic i was thinking about how awesome it would have been to have a real private server, where you could play and do these things.

I wish blizzard would release at some times in the future different realms with different "rules" to see the results. Like how fast one could kill KT (or other end bosses) from launch, how much they could increase the damage and health before bosses become unkillable, how few people are needed to kill ect