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  1. #1

    Do you think a talent system revamp is in the future?

    Title pretty much sums it up.

    Classic and BC have had me recently browsing the talent systems though the years. In LK we got glyphs stapled on and Cataclysm was the first big change when the number of available points were squished. Then came MoP where we switched to the proto version of what we have now but you could borrow from each of your class specs fantasy powers. Then finally WoD brought the version we still have today. My point being every few expansions we seem to get something new, I'm wondering if after what's being suspected as an 'interlude' expansion(before some weird changes happen to the wow universe) we aren't due for a different take on talents again.

  2. #2
    Elemental Lord callipygoustp's Avatar
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    Base talents? Probably not. I would be surprised if they were. If anything, some small tweaks here and there but not a revamp.

    Borrowed? Goes without saying.

  3. #3
    No...if anything they could likely trim the trees down even more. players have shown they value conformity and performance over gimmicks and weaker choices.

  4. #4
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    As quint as actual talent trees are there just
    Worse in every way when it comes to wow as they can/do just apply spell improvements to the base spells instead of having put out points ono them and they can already mix and match other spec stuff onto the current system.

  5. #5
    The problem with the current talent system is they cut a lot of core class abilities and then reintroduced them via the talent tree. Classes all feel the exact same currently. With that being said I don't know how they'd change it

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by LostSinclair View Post
    My point being every few expansions we seem to get something new, I'm wondering if after what's being suspected as an 'interlude' expansion we aren't due for a different take on talents again.
    No not really. The old talent trees were in of themselves how a spec was designed and it was very limiting. When the talent trees got trimmed down to the types of picking trees that each spec got in MoP that is fundamentally them pre-baking all of the filler talents that everyone already had to or did choose into the class itself. What was left were the things they thought could be variable and that is the choices that we got in the end.

    This has evolved for the most part for classes to have a "movement" tier and "survivability" tier and things like that, which isn't really great from a unique design standpoint, but for the most part when you have a game that tries to have essentially 36 classes, some overlap areas need to occur.

    Ultimately the problem now is one of dead talents and best talents. The disparity of talents in each tier needs to be close. There will always be a best talent for a situation, and it doesn't always need to be a "Choose this, this and that for AoE, and this set for pvp, and this for single target" situation but there should always be that choice between things that feels close.

    I'll use Enhancement as an example. Right now we have a fire nova totem route that depends on flame shock spreading and a lava lash build. This could be an interesting side path for Enhance to play if it had the supporting pillar it needs (flame shock spreading). It plays slightly different than the current lighting spread and is thematically different. However it is just flat out inferior because it lacks some supporting pillars (or in other specs cases the necessary output). Thus it sees no play.

    So the ideal place for some talents would be areas like that. Differing yet still cool pathways.

  7. #7
    I think they current system has proven to be comfortable enough for players and convenient to work with for the developers. They can swap/remove/add abilities at will. May be the talent choices are somewhat cookie-cutter, what they wanted to avoid with the system revamp, but at least the choices are pretty important and impactful. Although some are just too good, that playing without them makes the spec feel extremely weird. But that's the contents, the system in itself is pretty good and I doubt they will change it in the next 5-6 years at least.

    They came up with a much better solution in Legion, instead of changing the talent system, they added borrowed powers, which mostly are just separate talent trees/systems that are changed every expansion. Even though many don't like them, they are a great decision management-wise. You have the core systems, such as spellbook spells and talents, that remain the same (talking about the systems, not the contents), and every 2 years you remove a 3rd system and replace it with a new one, keeps the game fresh and different each expansion without the need to rework the core systems.

  8. #8
    I think at some point we might get something similar to glyphs (or even actually glyphs), in the way where they change a bit how an ability functions. Like, Killing Spree returning you to the starting point or not, stuff like that. For things not deserving their own talents, but impacting the gameplay a bit. Alternatively, something like a more permanent artifact/azerite/soulbind, since if I remember correctly, they said they're looking into alternatives for "borrowed power", but clearly they like having some of those passive modifiers.

  9. #9
    6/7 haven't seen a swap in 2 expansions and the 7th's use is shared with another but both are about equal. The system itself is in a bad shape, but instead of addressing it we will just get 500 shitty expansion features to throw ontop of it so it will never be addressed.

  10. #10
    There is a pretty massive shift towards ff14 right now in progress. A better question is to wonder if this is the last xpac.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    There is a pretty massive shift towards ff14 right now in progress. A better question is to wonder if this is the last xpac.
    While I'm not any happier with the current expansion(I didn't touch it or classic for 4 months and just dicked around on Swtor out of boredom) I'd like to point out that as long as it makes money it will continue to get expansions. I mean Ultima Online doesn't have a tenth of WoW's subscriber base and it's still getting updates.

  12. #12
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    There is a pretty massive shift towards ff14 right now in progress. A better question is to wonder if this is the last xpac.
    The last report had a ton of new players joining wow and an earnings increase, there is no chance it will be the last expan.

  13. #13
    We get them pretty regularly to account for new level caps, where the frequency of talents would need to be adjusted so that people are awarded talents at a rate that feels good. That, and the same talent trees may last for a while for exceptional trees, but less for really bad trees.

    Anyway, biggest reasons against new talent trees would be if they were going to revamp and wanted to do that at the same time, and if the level cap is staying the same, thus invalidating the need to reassign new talent level brackets.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by LostSinclair View Post
    Title pretty much sums it up.

    Classic and BC have had me recently browsing the talent systems though the years. In LK we got glyphs stapled on and Cataclysm was the first big change when the number of available points were squished. Then came MoP where we switched to the proto version of what we have now but you could borrow from each of your class specs fantasy powers. Then finally WoD brought the version we still have today. My point being every few expansions we seem to get something new, I'm wondering if after what's being suspected as an 'interlude' expansion(before some weird changes happen to the wow universe) we aren't due for a different take on talents again.
    Personally I would much rather have Blizzard focus their intentions on the talent system instead of creating borrowed powers all the time.

  15. #15
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    No. It's either going to continue to stagnate or be removed entirely in favor of just more borrowed power.

    If you want talents, Classic is there for you.
    WoW has Cancer. First you cut out the cancer (abusive devs), then you assign an aggressive treatment plan (major design rework) to save it.

    Or you just let it die because that's too expensive.

    FFXIV - Crystal Datacenter

  16. #16
    Isn't it always?

    I like the talents. You actually change them up regularily.

    But i would love if they added a talentpoint system like the old talent treee adjunct to it.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    No. It's either going to continue to stagnate or be removed entirely in favor of just more borrowed power.

    If you want talents, Classic is there for you.
    One could make the argument that classic's popularity means some of its systems should be returned to retail.
    For the Alliance, and for Azeroth!

  18. #18
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcsmith View Post
    One could make the argument that classic's popularity means some of its systems should be returned to retail.
    You could but honestly I'm increasingly thinking that Blizz's view is "Classic gives us cover to start ripping out these systems that our team no longer wants and hasn't wanted since Ion took over."
    WoW has Cancer. First you cut out the cancer (abusive devs), then you assign an aggressive treatment plan (major design rework) to save it.

    Or you just let it die because that's too expensive.

    FFXIV - Crystal Datacenter

  19. #19
    seeing how much development retail seems to get i hardly doubt it.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    You could but honestly I'm increasingly thinking that Blizz's view is "Classic gives us cover to start ripping out these systems that our team no longer wants and hasn't wanted since Ion took over."
    I'd hope not, but who knows. Because there's so much from classic tbc I'd bring back to retail with some quality of life improvements.
    For the Alliance, and for Azeroth!

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