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  1. #1

    An AU Azeroth without the Orcs...

    So, anyone ever thought of what AU Azeroth would be like? the orcs never made it to Azeroth, how do you think things would have turned out?

  2. #2
    Legion would have taken over the first time then game over.....
    Member: Shadow Lands Alpha Club, Member since 4/9/2020

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by cuafpr View Post
    Legion would have taken over the first time then game over.....
    What....

    The orcs weren't even in azeroth the first time the legion invaded, you know...that time where the maelstrom ate itself and the world sundered....the naga were created....Sargeras lost his physical form..... yeah... that was the first time

    the SECOND invasion was with the orcs through the dark portal and that wasn't even the "legion" invading it was just the orcs.

    THE THIRD invasion was when the legion came, corrupted hellscream and the rest killed cenarius...bla bla. So to say the legion would of won without the orcs....makes 0 sense considering the first time they lost without the orcs and the second time they didn't even go with the orcs. But hey, you do you booboo

  4. #4
    Total Legion victory. Without the Horde present at the battle of Mt. Hyjal Archimonde would have succeeded in draining the World Tree, decimating the mortal resistance and then either succeeding in usurping Sargeras (unlikely) or more likely being forced to summon him only for Sargeras then to corrupt the World Soul, turning Azeroth into Argus 2 and all native life dying off.
    Last edited by enigma77; 2021-06-13 at 03:46 AM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by OokOok View Post
    What....

    The orcs weren't even in azeroth the first time the legion invaded, you know...that time where the maelstrom ate itself and the world sundered....the naga were created....Sargeras lost his physical form..... yeah... that was the first time

    the SECOND invasion was with the orcs through the dark portal and that wasn't even the "legion" invading it was just the orcs.

    THE THIRD invasion was when the legion came, corrupted hellscream and the rest killed cenarius...bla bla. So to say the legion would of won without the orcs....makes 0 sense considering the first time they lost without the orcs and the second time they didn't even go with the orcs. But hey, you do you booboo
    No Broxigar. No Thrall. Both were instrumental in stopping the Legion.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by OokOok View Post
    What....

    The orcs weren't even in azeroth the first time the legion invaded, you know...that time where the maelstrom ate itself and the world sundered....the naga were created....Sargeras lost his physical form..... yeah... that was the first time

    the SECOND invasion was with the orcs through the dark portal and that wasn't even the "legion" invading it was just the orcs.

    THE THIRD invasion was when the legion came, corrupted hellscream and the rest killed cenarius...bla bla. So to say the legion would of won without the orcs....makes 0 sense considering the first time they lost without the orcs and the second time they didn't even go with the orcs. But hey, you do you booboo
    I didn't really think about the war of the ancients was just thinking of the RTS games. though technically one orc was there and wounder Sarg, broxigar i think it was. But I believe it's even in-game isn't that Azeroth would have fallen without the aid of the orcs, some wraithon speech/quest diaglog?
    Member: Shadow Lands Alpha Club, Member since 4/9/2020

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    So, anyone ever thought of what AU Azeroth would be like? the orcs never made it to Azeroth, how do you think things would have turned out?
    Had there been no orc's Brox and Rhonin would had never gone back in time. With the 2 of them not there it would had been a COMPLETLY different turn of event as Rhonin already knew what needed to be done as it was his history. People who never read the books have no clue how much effect He and Rhonin had during WOTA.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    Total Legion victory. Without the Horde present at the battle of Mt. Hyjal Archimonde would have succeeded in draining the World Tree, decimating the mortal resistance and then either succeeding in usurping Sargeras (unlikely) or more likely being forced to summon him only for Sargeras then to corrupt the World Soul, turning Azeroth into Argus 2 and all native life dying off.
    Erm... without the orcs, Legion wouldn't even manage to enter Azeroth for the 3rd time.

    Remember who killed Cenarius? And how? Did you play WC 3?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Moozart View Post
    Had there been no orc's Brox and Rhonin would had never gone back in time. With the 2 of them not there it would had been a COMPLETLY different turn of event as Rhonin already knew what needed to be done as it was his history. People who never read the books have no clue how much effect He and Rhonin had during WOTA.
    these books created multiple time paradoxes into sure how much of it is retconned but all of it should be retconned imho, its some major stupid stuff.

  10. #10
    I wouldn't count on Cenarius making up for the Horde's absence at Hyjal. However, it's possible Medivh would have had more luck rallying the Alliance (or, in the case it never formed, the human nations in general) if Lothar still lived and Khadgar was still present.

    Quote Originally Posted by OokOok View Post
    What....

    The orcs weren't even in azeroth the first time the legion invaded, you know...that time where the maelstrom ate itself and the world sundered....the naga were created....Sargeras lost his physical form..... yeah... that was the first time

    the SECOND invasion was with the orcs through the dark portal and that wasn't even the "legion" invading it was just the orcs.

    THE THIRD invasion was when the legion came, corrupted hellscream and the rest killed cenarius...bla bla. So to say the legion would of won without the orcs....makes 0 sense considering the first time they lost without the orcs and the second time they didn't even go with the orcs. But hey, you do you booboo
    The Third War is considered the Legion's second invasion of Azeroth, not third.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by cuafpr View Post
    Legion would have taken over the first time then game over.....
    Technically, without the orcs, the Legion would not have been able to get to Azeroth, Medivh would likely have been caught. The orcs were the facilitators of both subsequent legion attacks , although this made it possible for Illidan to orchestrate their final defeat... question is, would he have been able to pull it off without the orcs triggering the attack?

    If we look at the actual elements needed to defeat the Legion - they needed the Sargerite keystone, he would have needed to get to Argus with an army - his demon hunters +army of the light.

    Orcs are impressive warriors, it's why the Legion wanted to recruit and empower them to demolish the draenei and soften Azeroth so the night elves would have their hands full, except the orcs met humans, and ultimately were foiled.

    If they hadn't touched down, it is possible the legion attack would still be years away.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Moozart View Post
    Had there been no orc's Brox and Rhonin would had never gone back in time. With the 2 of them not there it would had been a COMPLETLY different turn of event as Rhonin already knew what needed to be done as it was his history. People who never read the books have no clue how much effect He and Rhonin had during WOTA.
    It isn't Brox and Rhonin that saved Azeroth.. the night elves did that all by themselves, the infinite dragonflight then tried to disrupt the timeline, which is why Rhonin and co were sent back. I think they were just created as an excuse to have a human and orc be part of the story, otherwise they didn't feel it would be Warcraft enough without humans and orcs.

    I think originally the LEgion invasion took about 2.5 centuries to reach to the point of the sundering. Means the elves put up a much longer and bigger fight, or it took Azshara much longer to either get so swayed by them or accomplish her plan.

  12. #12
    They would probably have Medivh or some other agent open the portal beneath the Tomb of Sargeras

  13. #13
    Even if the legion winning arguments are flawed. Azeroth is still in trouble with C'Thun in silithus. Without the combined efforts of the Horde and alliance there might not be enough forces to fight back against the old god and his qiraji. None of the EK races would even have any idea he exists (except maybe High elves.) the Tauren would be busy trying to survive against the centaurs and the night elves might not have the numbers for another war down south.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    Even if the legion winning arguments are flawed. Azeroth is still in trouble with C'Thun in silithus. Without the combined efforts of the Horde and alliance there might not be enough forces to fight back against the old god and his qiraji. None of the EK races would even have any idea he exists (except maybe High elves.) the Tauren would be busy trying to survive against the centaurs and the night elves might not have the numbers for another war down south.
    but you could also argue because of the orcs, Azeroth is a lot weaker.. the 3rd war decimated the human, and both elven populations drastically, they'd be much stronger without the losses incurred from Wc1 through to WC3

  15. #15
    The orcs pretty much ruined everything and everyone lol, so it would be a way better place:

    - Stormwind: It would still stand, Medivh wouldn't have been killed, Llane would also still be alive.
    - Ironforge: Its strongholds would still be standing, the kingdom wouldn't have been devastated all around Ironforge.
    - Stromgarde: It wouldn't have been ravaged by the ogre and trolls.
    - Alterac: It wouldn't have been intimidated by the orcs to betray the Alliance, leading to its destruction.
    - Dalaran: With no Ner'zhul to corrupt Kel'thuzad, he wouldn't have required to summon Archimonde with the Book of Medivh, which lead to Dalaran's destruction.
    - Lordaeron: With no Ner'zhul the nation would still be standing, Arthas and Jaina would marry, Uther would be alive, as would Terenas.
    - Kul Tiras: Daelin would be alive without Thrall and his Horde provoking the Alliance by hijacking Alliance ships, Derek would be alive, the kingdom wouldn't have been invaded and damaged by the orcs.
    - Quel'Thalas: Alleria would still be there without the orcs to pursue, she'd probably settle somewhere with Turalyon after they married, Arator would grow up knowing his loving parents, the kingdom wouldn't have been burned, the Windrunner brother Lirath would be alive, the Amani would have been defeated easily, with no Ner'zhul the kingdom wouldn't have been devastated, Sylvanas would be alive, as would Anasterian, Umbric and his followers wouldn't be obsessed with ensuring the kingdom's protection.
    - Alextrasza and her dragons: They wouldn't have been literally raped for war purposes (breeding dragons for the Horde).

    See when people tell you that orcs can only mess things up, they aren't kidding. The orcs literally ruined everyone and everything.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2021-06-13 at 08:35 AM.

  16. #16
    Scarab Lord Lothaeryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    but you could also argue because of the orcs, Azeroth is a lot weaker.. the 3rd war decimated the human, and both elven populations drastically, they'd be much stronger without the losses incurred from Wc1 through to WC3
    While that may be true, without the third war, no one in the Alliance would ever set foot on Kalimdor.

    Only the Quel'Dorei would even know of the continents existence at the time, and Medivh(as the prophet) was the only reliable source Alliance leadership would "trust" to even look for it.

    That is, if there even is an Alliance without the Horde, most of the Kingdom city-states were generally at war with each other over their own differences before the first war, so convincing anyone save the High Elves to set foot on Kalimdor is a large sell to begin with.

    Humanity and Elvenkind may have more forces, but hardly any of them would ever leave the Eastern Kingdoms without any believable reason; and someone telling you "theres an ancient bug empire halfway across the world about to unleash hell upon our planet with an ancient god of madness at their center" would likely be met with indifference, or dismissed as the ramblings of a madman. Only the Kirin tor and Quel'Thalas would even know such things existed at all. This isn't even considering the Kaldorei would be outright hostile to anyone setting foot on Kalimdor without due cause. Especially since the Highborne were deliberately exiled with risk upon death for returning.

    By the time any real force could be mustered it would likely be too late to stop the first Quiraji invasion force from leaving Ahn'Quiraj.
    Fod Sparta los wuth, ahrk okaaz gekenlok kruziik himdah, dinok fent kos rozol do daan wah jer do Samos. Ahrk haar do Heracles fent motaad, fah strunmah vonun fent yolein ko yol
    .

  17. #17
    Scarab Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    No orcs, no Alliance. Lot's of potential infighting, easy pickings for Legion when they arrive again.
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by OokOok View Post
    What....

    The orcs weren't even in azeroth the first time the legion invaded, you know...that time where the maelstrom ate itself and the world sundered....the naga were created....Sargeras lost his physical form..... yeah... that was the first time

    the SECOND invasion was with the orcs through the dark portal and that wasn't even the "legion" invading it was just the orcs.

    THE THIRD invasion was when the legion came, corrupted hellscream and the rest killed cenarius...bla bla. So to say the legion would of won without the orcs....makes 0 sense considering the first time they lost without the orcs and the second time they didn't even go with the orcs. But hey, you do you booboo
    It was flat out stated in TBC, in the Black Morass dungeon, that without the orcs to shape Azeroth's history, particularly leading to the formation of the Alliance, and then standing alongside them, that the Legion would've effortlessly conquered and destroyed Azeroth as they did so many other worlds.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    The orcs pretty much ruined everything and everyone lol, so it would be a way better place:

    - Stormwind: It would still stand, Medivh wouldn't have been killed, Llane would also still be alive.
    - Ironforge: Its strongholds would still be standing, the kingdom wouldn't have been devastated all around Ironforge.
    - Stromgarde: It wouldn't have been ravaged by the ogre and trolls.
    - Alterac: It wouldn't have been intimidated by the orcs to betray the Alliance, leading to its destruction.
    - Dalaran: With no Ner'zhul to corrupt Kel'thuzad, he wouldn't have required to summon Archimonde with the Book of Medivh, which lead to Dalaran's destruction.
    - Lordaeron: With no Ner'zhul the nation would still be standing, Arthas and Jaina would marry, Uther would be alive, as would Terenas.
    - Kul Tiras: Daelin would be alive without Thrall and his Horde provoking the Alliance by hijacking Alliance ships, Derek would be alive, the kingdom wouldn't have been invaded and damaged by the orcs.
    - Quel'Thalas: Alleria would still be there without the orcs to pursue, she'd probably settle somewhere with Turalyon after they married, Arator would grow up knowing his loving parents, the kingdom wouldn't have been burned, the Windrunner brother Lirath would be alive, the Amani would have been defeated easily, with no Ner'zhul the kingdom wouldn't have been devastated, Sylvanas would be alive, as would Anasterian, Umbric and his followers wouldn't be obsessed with ensuring the kingdom's protection.
    - Alextrasza and her dragons: They wouldn't have been literally raped for war purposes (breeding dragons for the Horde).

    See when people tell you that orcs can only mess things up, they aren't kidding. The orcs literally ruined everyone and everything.
    You said so much, and pretty much all of it wrong. We've been told what would've happened between the native Azeroth kingdoms if they hadn't been forced to work together. And it wasn't pretty.
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Lothaeryn View Post
    While that may be true, without the third war, no one in the Alliance would ever set foot on Kalimdor.

    Only the Quel'Dorei would even know of the continents existence at the time, and Medivh(as the prophet) was the only reliable source Alliance leadership would "trust" to even look for it.

    That is, if there even is an Alliance without the Horde, most of the Kingdom city-states were generally at war with each other over their own differences before the first war, so convincing anyone save the High Elves to set foot on Kalimdor is a large sell to begin with.

    Humanity and Elvenkind may have more forces, but hardly any of them would ever leave the Eastern Kingdoms without any believable reason; and someone telling you "theres an ancient bug empire halfway across the world about to unleash hell upon our planet with an ancient god of madness at their center" would likely be met with indifference, or dismissed as the ramblings of a madman. Only the Kirin tor and Quel'Thalas would even know such things existed at all. This isn't even considering the Kaldorei would be outright hostile to anyone setting foot on Kalimdor without due cause. Especially since the Highborne were deliberately exiled with risk upon death for returning.

    By the time any real force could be mustered it would likely be too late to stop the first Quiraji invasion force from leaving Ahn'Quiraj.
    Ah but it is easy to write that once detected, the Kaldorei would rally the world again, and this time you'd have the Pandaren, the Trolls both of Zandalari and Zul'drak, you'd have the aspects, the keepers. We'd still have all the pillars of creation, without any of the losses, we'll just be minus the orcs and draenei . We'd likely meet the Lightforged en route to Argus. Xe'ra felt we only needed Alleria, Turalyon and Illidan anyway, nothing about the orcs in the light prophecy and it's true, they played no role in the final defeat of the legion, and they were the essential origin of the 2nd invasion. So without them do you still think it won't have worked?

    They could write that without hte orcs the legion were still defeated, but without Thrall, victory over the old gods and the hour of twilight would never have happened. But then coudln't a Tauren shaman or even a druid take the place of Thrall for that purpose?

  20. #20
    The Patient qil's Avatar
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    Orcs killed a lot of humans, elves, dwavrs (and gnomes but who cares about gnomes), so without thier invasion Azeroth would have much more soldiers ready to fight vs. Legion.
    Already they plot against us.
    Seize this moment, Varian.
    Dismantle the Horde!

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