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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Elune is next in the chopping block. Folks like @ravenmoon or @VladlTutushkin are surely going to love it
    I gave up a while ago, most of my focus is either on old lore when it was good and trying to remind people of that, or fixing or attempting to provide solutions to make the current better and steer it back to what better.. All I do is reminisce and hearken back to the older lore, bringing out it's good points and trying to suggest ways the current off tangents can be stirred back to or return to the better days..

    It's almost non-existent on the current lore. I've lost interest. Judging form most of the topics even on the lore forums, so have most people.. most topics are about alternatives, what has happened, older characters and lore, and every future topic is about older content stuff being improved rather than advancing the current lore.



    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    As long as a single human and orc remain to fight, there's still Warcraft. You could delete the universe, you could delete the multiverses, you could delete all the desperate realms of creation, and you'd still have an Orc and a Human tussling in the Great Dark Beyond over scraps of meat on a rock somewhere just because they hated each other so much that they refused to die with the rest of creation. Well, I guess that's literally the story of Azeroth anyway. Oops.

    WoW is a world. Every NPC, every zone, they all have stories that don't end. These people's lives didn't stop getting lived and the colossal problems that they deal with don't go away forever just because we packed up and left for somewhere else on the dirt rock. We deal with temporary problems, and this is a war fueled with conflict that NEVER ends. Everyone, struggling to survive. Everyone, biting at the throat to kill SOMEONE over SOMETHING stupid. Some people trying to earn honest living, surrounded by beasts. Adventurers, braving the world, fighting its wonders and treasures in the elements and dragons of the world.
    Exactly, I'm only interested now in following those places we packed up and left when their lore was interesting. It's funny how I find the lore of the zones and the people the most interesting and always want to find out more about them.

    This is the bread and butter. to me the great cosmic mumbo jumbo and threats are of less value and importance, they seem less real, less threatening because of how increasingly ridiculous they become, without the bread and butter grounding of the lives of the peoples of Azeroth that they went to such effort to make us love, the intangible reaches of the cosmos on my nameless superhero adventurer means far less important than my more down to earth nameless adventurer exploring well known, and loved places and helping them do what they do best.
    Valewalker Farodin: "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

    My long replies often repeat info to make sure: You get all the info I have, It is clear and complete, in case you didn't actually read the first one. New readers have context at hand and are reminded of the point

  2. #22
    Elemental Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
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    @Razion while many of the points you mentioned are correct in theory, the problem is that we never get to see the consequences in-game. At best, we only have a glimpse of what is happening now, and in those few cases, the contrast between the reality in lore and the in-game depiction can be frankly off-putting.

    It is certainly true that "updates to things are natural"... But the game has seen almost no updates to the core zones, i.e. Kalimdor and EK, in 10 freaking years. And the quality of the updates in BfA was at least questionable: two major zones effectively removed from the game, and two others that have been brought into the modern timeline, while all the neighbouring regions are still stuck in the Cataclysm times. For example, you are in the recently liberated Darkshore, still bearing the scars of the events in BfA, but as soon as you zone into Ashenvale, you still see Garry's troops besieging Maestra's Post... I find it incredibly jarring.
    Current state of WoW lore:
    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    Who'd have known that the Domination guy whose aesthetics are 80% chains wasn't into freedom. Nobody could have seen this coming.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    @Razion while many of the points you mentioned are correct in theory, the problem is that we never get to see the consequences in-game. At best, we only have a glimpse of what is happening now, and in those few cases, the contrast between the reality in lore and the in-game depiction can be frankly off-putting.

    It is certainly true that "updates to things are natural"... But the game has seen almost no updates to the core zones, i.e. Kalimdor and EK, in 10 freaking years. And the quality of the updates in BfA was at least questionable: two major zones effectively removed from the game, and two others that have been brought into the modern timeline, while all the neighbouring regions are still stuck in the Cataclysm times. For example, you are in the recently liberated Darkshore, still bearing the scars of the events in BfA, but as soon as you zone into Ashenvale, you still see Garry's troops besieging Maestra's Post... I find it incredibly jarring.
    If you want all expansion zones up to date all the time, while I agree it'd be nice I don't think it's realistic.

    An expac has an expac of content. I can't imagine they'd be ever able to cover all the land of every expac without drastically cutting down on content and detail and special new assets per sectors.

    If you're just asking for a Cata revamp that's more reasonable.

    But keep in mind, with every area, lets say we update EK Kalim. Then Outland, then Wrath, then Mists, then Legion, then BFA, then SL... do we finally get new content then?

    At some level there has to be new content traded for not updating old. A priority on new vs old has to be decided. Both can be fun, and people can get sick of both. I think periodic updates here and there would therefore be healthiest.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudmaker View Post
    Sword in Silithus, that's of course captivating story without an ending! I wish to know more.
    Can we talk about how fucking asinine it is for a creator to tongue-and-cheek mock their own creation (Ardenweald theater quest) and yet do nothing to make it better?

    "Oh WOW guys, that sword in Silithus was wacky and didn't make sense at all huh?"

    Fuck off.
    Corporate wishes everyone a happy new year

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    There are endings and many beginnings in a story. But if you were here from the start, are there any stories left that don't have endings?

    If they are all concluded, are you still into this? If so why? Do the new stories and plots excite you or pique your curiosity? Or are you happy to say, you finished your Warcraft stories and nothing captivates you as much nowadays.

    What are your thoughts?
    there is one more story. one dating all the way back to warcraft 3. the story that has never been told. the story everyone wants.



























    Warcraft: RISE OF THE MURLOCS

    We fought them in Warcraft 3. We fought them on the shores of Tirisfal Glades, Westfall and Darkshore. They came from the deepest waters. But NOW their origin story is finally told! And the future belongs to the mglglgrrrrlglglgglrlrlrlrrlrlmmrl!

    Rise of the Murlocs is the 9th expansion pack for World of Warcraft. 10.0 brings you new Zones like Fishheim, The Mlrgl Brglwrgl, Tadpole Shoals and Amphibi Collect amphibigoo to progress your Mrglbar by completing content with a murloc on your back. Later, earn the Murloc suit, allowing you access to their webtoed kingdom. They have laid in wait for epochs, but soon all the fishies will finally be theirs. Murloc versions of Anduin, Sylvanas, Thrall, Grommash, Diablo, Space Marines, infiltrate Azeroth as they demonstrate their fishy mastery of all universes!

    the fishing skill becomes a full-blown system, as you are trained by Nat Pagle, the true guardian of Azeroth, holding vigil on the oncoming war of tongue and scale. learn how to use poles, nets, trawlers, and rafting. deck out your fishing chair with cosmetics and portals.

    The final shocking reveal, a murloc version of Elune, ready to consume reality, tests everything you think you knew.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  6. #26
    Dreadlord Cloudmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFromHumanResources View Post
    Can we talk about how fucking asinine it is for a creator to tongue-and-cheek mock their own creation (Ardenweald theater quest) and yet do nothing to make it better?

    "Oh WOW guys, that sword in Silithus was wacky and didn't make sense at all huh?"

    Fuck off.
    What kind of response is that? What do you mean wacky? It concerns Azeroth, the titan herself.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    there is one more story. one dating all the way back to warcraft 3. the story that has never been told. the story everyone wants.



























    Warcraft: RISE OF THE MURLOCS

    We fought them in Warcraft 3. We fought them on the shores of Tirisfal Glades, Westfall and Darkshore. They came from the deepest waters. But NOW their origin story is finally told! And the future belongs to the mglglgrrrrlglglgglrlrlrlrrlrlmmrl!

    Rise of the Murlocs is the 9th expansion pack for World of Warcraft. 10.0 brings you new Zones like Fishheim, The Mlrgl Brglwrgl, Tadpole Shoals and Amphibi Collect amphibigoo to progress your Mrglbar by completing content with a murloc on your back. Later, earn the Murloc suit, allowing you access to their webtoed kingdom. They have laid in wait for epochs, but soon all the fishies will finally be theirs. Murloc versions of Anduin, Sylvanas, Thrall, Grommash, Diablo, Space Marines, infiltrate Azeroth as they demonstrate their fishy mastery of all universes!

    the fishing skill becomes a full-blown system, as you are trained by Nat Pagle, the true guardian of Azeroth, holding vigil on the oncoming war of tongue and scale. learn how to use poles, nets, trawlers, and rafting. deck out your fishing chair with cosmetics and portals.

    The final shocking reveal, a murloc version of Elune, ready to consume reality, tests everything you think you knew.
    I want a Murloc mount too.

    The Legion fishing legendary could be expanded into a full talent tree
    Last edited by Beloren; 2021-06-15 at 06:59 PM.

  8. #28
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    If you want all expansion zones up to date all the time, while I agree it'd be nice I don't think it's realistic.

    An expac has an expac of content. I can't imagine they'd be ever able to cover all the land of every expac without drastically cutting down on content and detail and special new assets per sectors.

    If you're just asking for a Cata revamp that's more reasonable.

    But keep in mind, with every area, lets say we update EK Kalim. Then Outland, then Wrath, then Mists, then Legion, then BFA, then SL... do we finally get new content then?

    At some level there has to be new content traded for not updating old. A priority on new vs old has to be decided. Both can be fun, and people can get sick of both. I think periodic updates here and there would therefore be healthiest.
    While I personally definitely prefer the focus be on updating the world to reflect the story with every expansion, I agree it wouldn't be very realistic. (though I'm sure there's an argument to be made for a company like blizzard having the resources to do it and simply choosing not to, I am ignorant of the actual realistic costs for doing that so I can't really take that position)

    I would be content with your suggestion, periodic updates to reflect the story effects. I feel like at least that should be doable, especially with chromie time. As @Soon-TM said, seeing stuff like Garrosh still attacking ashenvale is jarring as all hell.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    I want a Muslim mount too.

    The Legion fishing legendary could be expanded into a full talent tree
    Think your autocorrect messed you up there mate lol XD
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never....BURN IT"

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    I can safely say that all the stories I cared for in WoW are over, whether I like how they ended or not. Scourge? Done after WotLK, since the supposed massive Scourge invasion taking place atm will not be reflected in the slightest in the future - not in-game, anyway. Faction pride? Done after MoP and especially after BfA, with the Horde becoming a Red Alliance in the (futile) hope that it won't be villain-batted again in the future. The Old Gods? They have been retconned to literal space ticks status, and they are all dead anyway. Race-based stories? Who cares about those, writers are very busy fapping to Sylv and/or Anduin.

    Even the Burning Legion is over after, well, Legion. Maybe they will bring Sargie back from retirement in 4-5 years from now, but they will just use him as box cover for whatever chapter of the current cosmic mumbo jumbo they have such a hardon for.

    Yeah... thats pretty much it.

  10. #30
    I said back when classic came out that the correct path forward was classic+ Instead of BC. Make new content patches for classic in an alternate timeline that focused on smaller threats because retail lore is ridiculous with its world-ending and universe-ending and reality-ending threats. I suggested patch ideas like a skirmish with the defias, or the scarlets. And you can dig deeper into their lore.

    But no, they screwed that up and went with BC.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  11. #31
    Elemental Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    But keep in mind, with every area, lets say we update EK Kalim. Then Outland, then Wrath, then Mists, then Legion, then BFA, then SL... do we finally get new content then?
    I'd be happy with just EK/Kalimdor. The WoW team today is supposedly much bigger than back in Cata, and they have (hopefully) learned from the Cata experience what to do and what not. Unless their conclusion is that world revamps are bad because they can't be used for endgame content, which it simply isn't true after Legion.
    Current state of WoW lore:
    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    Who'd have known that the Domination guy whose aesthetics are 80% chains wasn't into freedom. Nobody could have seen this coming.

  12. #32
    The Lightbringer Wangming's Avatar
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    There are a few plot threads I would like to explore, but definitely not with these writers.

  13. #33
    I guess everything after Arthas' story in WotLK really just wasn't wrapped up well AT ALL.

    Deathwing getting zapped by some gizmo in one of the most disappointing raids ever. Garrosh turning into a comic-book bad guy and then into time-travel ex machina bullshit. Legion just fizzling out. Azshara keeling over like a child who threw one too many fits. N'zoth the smartest most devious Old God popping like a balloon.

    Can't wait to see what they do with Sylvanas, and how high the tears of all the people rise who thought they'd turn her into something other than a giant trope.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    I gave up a while ago, most of my focus is either on old lore when it was good and trying to remind people of that, or fixing or attempting to provide solutions to make the current better and steer it back to what better.. All I do is reminisce and hearken back to the older lore, bringing out it's good points and trying to suggest ways the current off tangents can be stirred back to or return to the better days..
    Literally everything you suggest is centered on elves and utterly nonsensical. You still seem to be having trouble adjusting to the fact that Quel'Thalas turned Horde over ten years ago.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by AcidicSyn View Post
    Think your autocorrect messed you up there mate lol XD
    OOps sure did. Better watch my back now.

  16. #36
    Brewmaster Nemah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    As long as a single human and orc remain to fight, there's still Warcraft. You could delete the universe, you could delete the multiverses, you could delete all the desperate realms of creation, and you'd still have an Orc and a Human tussling in the Great Dark Beyond over scraps of meat on a rock somewhere just because they hated each other so much that they refused to die with the rest of creation.
    10.0 confirmed.

  17. #37
    No Warcraft story had an ending, it just moves from one chapter to another and many threads are left hanging in between expansions, even patches. Sometimes they pick them up in books or even following expansions. I haven't felt like having a closure on anything.

    On one hand that's a good thing, since it's an never ending story... on the other hand 20 lines of dialogue and a cutscene once every 6+ months is doing well to detach fans from whatever story they are trying to tell.

  18. #38
    I was never satisfied with revisionist history.

    Warcraft RTS is my official canon, while much of WoW is an AU to me that just happens to be regarded as official canon by others

    Much like how I consider the OG Star Wars trilogy as sacred while the prequels and sequels are just things to consider. Mandalorian and Rogue One are great supplements to my vision of what Star Wars is. To me, the story ends when I'm no longer interested in the new stories that are told.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  19. #39
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    I think it's really hard to care about story if you don't care about the characters in the story. With just a few exceptions most of the lore characters that Blizzard spent years building up are dead. Worse, they were killed off for effect and shock value in an attempt to make Legion 'epic.' They've put some new characters out there but if you think about it there's not a lot of time for introduction, back story, and the rest of the details that make up a character that people can really care about. That makes those characters pretty disposable.

    Story-telling in an MMO is awkward anyway. It's done mostly through quests. Patches can add a bit here and there but those are typically infrequent. The way expansions are structured the best story-telling seems to be with smaller stories and smaller characters. That's not sufficient to carry an arc through multiple expansions so you're left with watching some NPC acquaintances gin up drama that is difficult to care about because you don't really care that much about them.

    The big bet on putting all of this on Sylvanas may or may not pay off but imposes limits on just what you can do with story creation. It's now all sort of one-dimensional.
    “We live in a moment where everything immediately seems to default to outrage. There’s a kind of M.O. of either it’s exactly how I see it, or you’re my enemy.”

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