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  1. #41
    Warchief Sugarcube's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Lucky you....



    A: Don't have any keys
    B: I don't know a tank or healer

    Anyway enough of explaining reality to people, I'm outta here.
    you don't need to know a tank or healer lol... and get a key then...

  2. #42
    No, this is a good thing for sure.
    Realistically no one does any key that matters and is worrying about valor.
    Instead, it breaks the idea that you need a meta comp or overaccomplished players for low keys, where people ARE looking for valor.

    It also ends the +2 valor farm, likely.
    Depends how much extra you actually get though.
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  3. #43
    Warchief Sugarcube's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hey There Guys its Metro View Post
    No, this is a good thing for sure.
    Realistically no one does any key that matters and is worrying about valor.
    Instead, it breaks the idea that you need a meta comp or overaccomplished players for low keys, where people ARE looking for valor.

    It also ends the +2 valor farm, likely.
    Depends how much extra you actually get though.
    i do 20+ keys on my priest...

    i still do 14s on my alts... i leave a lot of keys as a result of carried players who really shouldn't be in a 14 key... this is gonna get even worse with this change...

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/ne...-of-domination



    this means even more people getting carried because some people want more valor... holy fuck... what are they thinking? there already is a problem with people getting to a score they wouldn't be at if people didn't carry them and now they're incentivizing it...
    The whole system is garbage, this doesn't make it worse or better. They're trying to salvage a system the players hated the minute it went up on ptr and this is their idea of "salvage" to make it more "friendly" to players who are trash.
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    Trust me.

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  5. #45
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    i do 20+ keys on my priest...

    i still do 14s on my alts... i leave a lot of keys as a result of carried players who really shouldn't be in a 14 key... this is gonna get even worse with this change...
    Carried players certainly exist, but your other threads and posts have suggested that your threshold for who is "carried" is anyone who makes a dumb mistake, so I'm not sure any policy level is really going to make you happy because all the disincentives in the world to prevent carries are not going to stop situations where occasionally a PuG doesn't noticed you're silenced or out of mana or they miss a critical interrupt. This is just shit that happens, even occasionally with good players who are having a bad day, but certainly frequently with average ones who might pull their weight but not much more. I'm not sure how much of this is a "carried players is a problem that needs solved" issue verses just having unreasonably low tolerance for mistakes or unreasonably high expectations for randos.

    In any case, you're still begging the question that this is going to increase carries. There would have to be a context in which people doing keys in the 14+ range were good and experienced enough to carry others but needed valor enough to justify inviting unqualified people, which is an incredibly niche situation to begin with since most of the former players are going to be capped capped very quickly. But as I said, it also presumes the valor reward is good enough that people are willing to risk a rockier group for that bonus, while at the same time, a good valor reward only means they are going to cap sooner.

    Maybe it sounds like it's going to promote carry groups on paper, but in reality, this is really only going to affect baby keys being done on an intro level by alts and new players and only in the early weeks of the patch before every one is capped. Some dude getting carried week 1 in a seven by some good players farming valor isn't going to impact anything long term because he's going to have to do a lot of climbing after that, and by then most people won't need the valor.

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  6. #46
    Elemental Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    This will have little, if not any at all, long term effect on M+ or the M+ scoring system and you will likely not be effected by it in anyway to complain about it as you have.
    Which begs the question of why it is being introduced in the first place
    Current state of WoW lore:
    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    Who'd have known that the Domination guy whose aesthetics are 80% chains wasn't into freedom. Nobody could have seen this coming.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post


    Don't have a healer, a tank ... so that's a no go.



    Something lucky people will always say.
    What do being a healer or tank have to do with making your own group? I just told you I literally just finished gearing a fury war using my own key and making pug groups (along with a mage and warlock I've done this way as well)

    The 2nd comment makes me wonder if you are being disingenuous or not tbh. Effort has nothing to do with luck. I thought I remember you saying you were older than most here (40+), were you never taught the benefits of hard work and perseverance?
    Last edited by matheney2k; 2021-06-15 at 02:48 AM.

  8. #48
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Which begs the question of why it is being introduced in the first place
    Because it sounds like a lovely idea to whatever higher up didn't bother to think about it for more than a couple seconds.

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  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    You can pug up to +15's without much problem.
    Eh, not really, at least not as a healer. I only got KSM because a couple of friends started playing again, I struggle to finish 15s with pugs because people are just fucking awful at playing the game and as a resto druid I don't really have much influence on the progress of the group if they can't avoid basic shit. Going from not even being able to time 14s consistently with pugs to doing 18s without any issues with friends. I can't even do 15s consistently with pugs even now, I'm thinking someone is fine and suddenly they just fall over dead because they took damage when I expected them not to.

  10. #50
    They'll 100% reset it, it will be just like conquest except 750 a week or whatever. You won't be able to upgrade a two-hander for over a month, and it will cost everything you've earned.

    I think a lot of folks are going to be shocked since we got the 5k cap here initially since it was so late.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    Huh? What leather for a bag? Only bag I know of is the tailoring one which is cloth only.



    Because it's the internet where everything is always bad, even if good.
    Heavy Callous Hide.

    https://www.wowhead.com/item=172097/heavy-callous-hide

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    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Well - yeah, entirely. Didn't get the right keys - missed out on getting into groups because I logged on 5 minutes too late etc.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Where do you do that ?
    There is a vendor at the great vault, on the side. Cost 750 per bag of 10. Ore and cloth is 20 I think, but the value is with the hides.
    Last edited by Doffen; 2021-06-15 at 05:47 AM.
    Considering I have around 10 or 11 cutting edges you are wrong.


  12. #52
    Please wait Temp name's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    because even more people will carry others to where they shouldn't be instead of leaving their groups when it turns out they suck...
    But.. Everyone who can carry others will be valor capped doing their own keys anyway. Earning valor faster doesn't matter if you can't earn any, because it doesn't matter if you cap in 1 or in 5 dungeons if you do 10 anyway
    Last edited by Temp name; 2021-06-15 at 09:28 AM.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Can't get into PUGs ... my score isn't high enough and I'm a dps.
    Push your own key, I managed to do all dungeons in +11-13 range on my 200ilvl warrior (non-meta dps) in two weeks or so.

  14. #54
    I dont know if it was mentioned, its 65 bonus valor if someone gets rating out of the key.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    i'm getting flashbacks to trying 22 sd... tank dropping like mad.. i get curse of suppression on me and tank dies... "omg healer wtf"... yes wtf indeed... stop the curse of suppression from being cast on me...
    Well, healers have toolkits for that too. On these levels everyone has to go full out planned usage of CDs. Tank should not be "omg healer", but healers are not just heal casters either. My paladin healer always has bubble sac for me when I need it, Blinding, HoJ and Card Assassin so you could have helped your tank from getting dropped like mad. But we can't verify the scenario, so it does not matter.
    "Save me" attitude is not something you can do in a +22. It's planned CDs and execution.

  16. #56
    Dumbasses bitching against bonus valor... that's just incredible that someone can find negativity at all things

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    Because it sounds like a lovely idea to whatever higher up didn't bother to think about it for more than a couple seconds.
    It is a good idea. Most people who would be "abusing" this are going to massively overcap valor early in the patch anyway and won't care later in the patch. It's just a nice bonus for helping an alt or getting somebody a bit of score.
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  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Something lucky people will always say.
    How is KSM "luck" ? It's a choice, it's not like you do WQs and get KSM as a random reward. Also you said that you have 7k valor which would mean you ran plenty of dungeons after the system was introduced.

    Dude. We literally pugged +7s and 3 chested it on our 180-190 alts. We have main score displayed, so that saves time, but it's not like people are picky in those ranges, my druid tank could get into +7 without my score displayed, 170ilvl and no legendary.

  19. #59
    When Valor was introduced I did farm it by applying to random 2-4s. In that sense there is an incentive to carry others. However, given that most active "good" players will be valor capped anyway from next season as it will likely start from 750 again, its unlikely to encourage that much carrying. The fringe scenario is alts of good players carrying folks, but that isn't too significant. This change is fairly inconsequential (as Tziva rightly points out, its probably more geared at sounding good than doing anything meaningful), but a nice bonus for helping out some less experienced friends on alts.

    Also don't bite on Schwarzkopf trolling; he does the same bit every so often.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Tradu View Post
    It is a good idea. Most people who would be "abusing" this are going to massively overcap valor early in the patch anyway and won't care later in the patch. It's just a nice bonus for helping an alt or getting somebody a bit of score.
    Exactly. My main won't care even a bit about it. We are usually doing enough dungeons to do a double cap in a week. On the alts on the other hand - we usually play with several people - it will help to catch up because now I have megaton of valor to grind on my fresh alt with no real catchup and lower keys are so trivial that you can easy time a dungeon with just 3 players as long as your gear is not too far behind. We ran a 14min ToP yesterday while dungeon still gave us gear which was upgrade for everyone in the party. We could have easy had couple of dead weights in the party and still do a 30min run.

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