Deatholme rebuilt as a Void elf city or as capital of San'layn allied race?

[rogueMatthias]

Void Elfs already have a capital... Silvermoon. They don't want another one. They're die-hard Silvermoon loyalists, they just hate the Horde and refuse to see Silvermoon work with them.

If you follow their lore, they're some rebel group that want to take power, and have their claim to power supported by the Alliance. The Alliance's support of the Void Elves is basically akin to US support of Free Syrian Army to try and depose Assad.

The power of the void was always going to be a weapon against the Horde, not for it.

[Beloren]

I just do not believe Void Elves would be that welcomed so close to Silvermoon? I mean, they did get banished for what they are now.

I get that, totally, but in a scenario like this, isn't it obvious that for it to happen, something would have happened to cause a change, whether a war or catastrophe.

Unfortunately it doesn't seem a lot of people can imagine scenarios they can't see immediate connections concerning. So right now there doesn't seem any reason why void elves or how void elves can be there right, therefore they say it can't happen.

I'm saying forget about the reasons how we get there right, reasons can be invented. Would you think it's a cool idea to have something liek that there.

As a blood elf fan, I'm thinking the possibility of having some cool blood elf vs void elf scenarios or some interesting truce scenario. I'm thinking, would it look really cool if it was some void tinged forest, and had some amazing looking art work and worth doing.. I'm sure any situation that has void elves in Quel'thalas permanently would be interesting from a lore perspective (I wouldn't want us to be driven out, that i wouldn't like, but a both of us, could open possibilities.

Or is it going to be nicer to have like full on undead .. which for me is the lesser option because we've seen blighted land loads before and already done that.. what we haven't seen is a full on void affected forest.. maybe night elf druids and void elves work together to make it work... I'm sure alliance fans wanting more void elf/night elf interaction would like that, but why just alliance fans.. i think any warcraft fan would find it a bit intriguing to see void elves working with night elf druids- they seem so opposite too ( i mean hans't the emerald dream being fighting the void - i'd be interested to see them corpoerating and how the Thalassian hate is either managed or overcome .. who says being a horde fan you can't find all the lore interesting - maybe this is where blizz need to change the fandom, by doing things in places where it can be most interesting and where it can work. Nightbonre/night elves can be another area where this can be expxplored but in a very different way.

But I'm thinking more on the artistic contrast between a sunny golden paradise, full of Light like Eversong woods and Silvermoon is, and then a void, deep forest, and metropolis at the end where void elves area bout.

I think that's quite interesting. I would also like a normal version, where Quel'thalas actually gets a wood, and you have proper Farstrider lore expanded and you get that wood elf vibe the Farstriders give off. That would also be cool.

also the land can actually be expanded to have BOTH !! I like this even better..(it just popped into my head)

What if: we get that cool forest region with Farstriders, and then we get the void forest and void elf city.. the new Ghostlands is actually doubled in size and a mirror of Silvermoon but void elf built is sitting where Deathholme was formerly, and the hug lush green forest is what separates the void forest and void plain from the light one.

Sadly people are too partisan to see past hating each other and to actually see cool new possibilities. We have blood elf fans desperate for the alliance side characters not to have anything they have, which I understand, that use to be me (no longer - I hate factions - or rather what facitons have made the game before, and how racial nuance and lore has been sacrificed on its altar) and you have alliance fans perhaps too eager for this because they want horde stuff - but we seem to fight more than genuinely look to see what would be more interesting for the game and lore. And hating each other isn't always the best thing, esepcially when it's been shipped and overdone like it has, it needs a litlte of the opposite.

not 100% peace ofc, but areas where some cross faction team ups are actually genuinely looking like they could work or be sustained - which I'm thinking the two cross faction elven groups should be the guinea pig, they alone have the deep connections no other cross faction race has (well humans and forsaken have, but as the leading alliance race, its probably better to do this with night elf/Nightborne and void/high elf/blood elf) since these are not faction leaders.

I get why many won't want Quel'thalas to be a place where this happens - but I can't help but feel the motivation is factional, and not race based or because of interesting content and material that we can have in the story of the races - which is what I want more than anything right now in wow. I'm tired of boring constant faction war, and tire of running into super cosmic threat nth level threat.. /yawn. If blood elves weren't on the horde or neutral, they actually would entertain this thought and might consider exploring where it would go.

Well so what if blood elves are horde? So what if Void elves are alliance? it could still be interesting to have their opposite counter actually nearby in the land they ancestrally share.. it could make the situation a lot more interesting, whether because of the constant threat of danger, or the nuance of the political climate having high/voids around can cause.. either route could be interesting. warcraft is crying for exploring basic options completely ignored to push faction conflict or interstellar threats while it has the background in place to make such racial explorations quite interesting and fun for fans.

The development could actually be quite good for both horde and alliance.. this is what a skilful creative writer can achieve even with opposing sides. Me thinks they far too often don't try hard enough. they should force these elves together and explore that.. Night elf/nightborne and blood elf/void/high elf are the only groups uniquely in this position that such a meshing together can be very interesting and entertaining and produce something good or meaningful


Just takes creativity.

[Nnyco]

I guess we already forgot what happened when just ONE void elf came near the sunwell.

[Arikara]

You seem to have your priorities backwards, OP. Edgy elves are to be eradicated, not paid attention to.

[Beloren]

Exciting Development for Quel'thalas
I think the alliance should try to take Silvermoon , with high elves of the Silver Covenant and Void elves leading the charge, it's pretty even, in a race, that has the alliance nearly overwhelm, but horde reinformcents arrive and fight back, and so it goes back and forth, but then the Ethereals from the void attack.. the elves have a choice, either continue fighting or work together as the only way to save the Sunwell and basically Azeroth from being overrun and overtaken by the void.


They sign a truce, the void elves attack from the void realm surrounding Quel'thalas, the high elves and blood elves lead the alliance and horde forces in protecting Silvermoon and the Sunwell.

The day is saved. The elves convene.. whatever their different views, one thing is clear, Quel'thalas and the Sunwell must never fall neither must their allegiances to either faction cause elves to spill blood or fight on this land.

Quel'thalas is declared sacred land for all elves, and both groups vow to protect it.. the high elves would manage the alliance, and the blood elves the horde, no one may enter Quel'thalas except by leave of the council, with each factional group taking care and being responsible for visitors.. violating the truth or spilling blood is punishable by permanent banishment (alliance side), and death by execution (horde side).. the void elves are vital for the defence of Silvermoon, they take up residence in the void realm and defend Quel'thalas from there.

Where the void elves fit in
You can now enter void zone of Quel'thalas (which is essentially like a shadow version or emerald dream version except purple, and here the same structures exist, but in a different phase.. you find the void elves have later added their own style to the towers and buildings of Silvermoon and quel'danas in the void realm). - this is also their new capital. Blood elves and high elves share Silvermoon guarding it.

the animosity hasn't changed as such, but instead of killing each other, now the fight for the hearts and minds of the Thalassian people truly begin, almost like a pseudo political conflict.. sometimes it escalates into cold war, with some members of both factions wanting the other completely out and conversely some members of both factions wanting true and complete unity.

This is how void elves, high elves and blood elves return to Quel'thalas together, within the context of being in two opposite factions.. Ghostlands is mostly healed in the revamp and becomes a home for many high elves who live outside the city 9since most of the normal part of Eversong woods is blood elf.. although some families return to their family lands. Deatholme still remains a cursed place, where the San'layn will play a role in later and end up using it as a base of secret operations.

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oh, lighten up and have some creative fun - the wow lore is so out there atm, very little comes across as non-sensical compared to it. Its a good chance to flex your creative muscles and pitch how you can make Quel'thalas more interesting.

my view is outside the main faction hubs, Capitals and other locations shoudl be utilised well to serve the story, they shoudl retain relevance, but some can be destroyed, rebuilt, shared, abandoned as the story needs. i do think the popular races with s trong identities should have capitals.. i.e. night elves, blood elves, Humans, orcs, Trolls, dwarves - i don't mind if elves have to share with each other or take over from the oppsoite faction in an already built capital, but there can be compelling stories to share.

As for the others, they can have different fates from abandoned to restored or destroyed. Since it's already gone through hell, I think Gilneas city should be returned, i also feel they should either salvage Kezan or replace it with Undermine, but having both could also work. Maybe Highmountain and Gnomeragan destroyed and these guys set up in Thunderbluff and Mechagon. maybe Echo isles gets rebuilt, or trolls there leave for Dazar'alor or Atal'Dazar.

Stuff happens,.. more down to earth stuff

Not a bad effort, some of it is a bit wonky, but it can be interesting. You see you are describing a way it can be done from a lore perspective. I particularly don't care, as long as they make it interesting, and I feel they can, I mean what you suggest i interesting enough

Warcraft is very stale at the moment on the race side, they need interesting things to happen than are more than just me horde, you alliance... ARRRGh I hate you so much.. fight bye. rinse repeat till we are sick to death of it, (like we are right now)

We need interesting scenarios that challenge prejudices, and differences, long standing hatreds.. situations where you can still not like each other and wanna fight but also reason to corporate and work outside "hey a big baddie is here, we must unite" which has been used over and over again.

Okay, what if it is a smaller threat but still requiring you to unite, and it doesn't just end afterward, high/void elves and blood elves are primed to explore such a possibility if Quel'thalas is changed like this. I know you are a big fan of Night elves sharing with Nightborne, or it 's your second option.. i once proposed a whole line on that I thought could be interesting. Wonder if you opposed it because it was me that wrote it or because you didn't like my idea.

We can have two factions and have more than the black and white interactions we've got so far. I just want something more interesting than what we've had so far, new types of situations - maybe fans have longed to see how the night elves can get along with the Nightborne being in different factions but not hating themselves.

Void/high elves and Blood elves though have much stronger closer ties to being in Quel'thalas from a certain point of view, and their hatred is much stronger, but you are right, so is their love for their land, their Sunwell and the legacy of their people, can this be enough to overcome their hatreds.. we've been teased this a while, and if a situation like you describe forest them together, can it hold? will the peace seekers ultimately win over the warmongers? or will it be in a state of flux? It shouldn't be obvious, but it can be very interesting. It shouldn't be.. ofc they can't because one is horde and the other is alliance - that's WAY TOO OBVIOUS.. let shave nuance.

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I guess we already forgot what happened when just ONE void elf came near the sunwell.

No, just look past it for a while, and see what can be if it became less of an issue or they got rid of that issue because there was a more pressing need for them to be there. too many people are focusing on the how because of the story, don't worry about that, any creative developer can create compelling reasons for them to be there.

Focus more on what sort of zone we will get, and how interesting exploring more Thalassian lore would be with all their groups around... maybe we get all above. maybe a new Quel'thalas is actually 3 times the current size. you get the Silvermoon, Eversong woods mostly blood elf portion, golden and bright, then you get the Eversong forest where most of the high elves have gotten into, and then a further south a huge void woods culminating in a void city, and then to the side is deathholme and the last remnants of the scourge attack and undeath where the San'layn manage.. then you have Zul'Aman or maybe it's Zul'Aman the void elves totally take over and drive out, rebuilding their city there over the dead troll bodies, just like the high elves did, ensuring more hatred down the line between elves and trolls. Then there is Quel'danas, where it's like Daes'dameir in the Cairhien court (WoT reference) between the 3 elven groups - who must keep things from dangerously boiling over. A Sunwell plateau that would collapse without the 3 groups working together - but whose differences threaten to spell disaster for Quel'thalas and possibly the whole world.

Think ,more of how interesting and pretty the zone could be, with no shortage of interesting stories, interactions and lore to tell, exploring them further.

This is more what I'm looking at. Rather than - "oh but void elves will cause the Sunwell to explode, so it can't happen.." I'd instead be more like "what if void elves had to be near there, and there was a constant threat of the Sunwell becoming a void well, but void elves were essential in stopping the void forces from over running the Sunwell so had to be there, yet one mis step or instability could unravel the defence the three elven groups put together".. that would ironical... that could be very interesting.. what if the San'layn also had to be there. (writers create a good reason) and htis group has plans for their land of origin - plans we don't want. Look there can be many good reasons, and that can come it's part of the fun such a thign can cause, but we can't control that or determine that, so let's not focus on the "how" right now..

Just focus on how you'd feel about a multifaceted interesting zone.

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You seem to have your priorities backwards, OP. Edgy elves are to be eradicated, not paid attention to.

Indeed, but doesn't mean we can't do it in an interesting way.. perhaps through all this we can show why we are fully justified in eradicating them.

[melzas]

The Asspull'dorei aka Void Elves should be ignored and neglected in further lore. Hopefully blizzard will forget they exist.

Asspull'dorei served their purpose as a compromise between high elves and blood elves, alliance got their eye candy race, now let's not taint the game with more of their "lore".

[Crimson Spears]

Lore wise isn't the population of void elves only a dozen to maybe a hundred?

Unless I missed some lore point where other blood elves became void elves for some reason...( desperate for another type of magic though I could of sworn their addiction was cured),

It feels weird to give a faction so tiny a capital city. Every guard and vender in the city would be an actual 1 to 1 to their population.

[Diaphin]

Lore wise isn't the population of void elves only a dozen to maybe a hundred?

Unless I missed some lore point where other blood elves became void elves for some reason...( desperate for another type of magic though I could of sworn their addiction was cured),

It feels weird to give a faction so tiny a capital city. Every guard and vender in the city would be an actual 1 to 1 to their population.

Its likely that their population will slowly grow, as we saw in Telegorus Rift that Blood Elves as well as High Elves seek them out to join them.

[ONCHEhap]

Building a major ren'dorei settlement inside Quel'Thalas is a good way to get Sin'dorei death squads paying a "visit"

[ravenmoon]

Building a major ren'dorei settlement inside Quel'Thalas is a good way to get Sin'dorei death squads paying a "visit"

So many options can be fun.

[Crimson Spears]

Its likely that their population will slowly grow, as we saw in Telegorus Rift that Blood Elves as well as High Elves seek them out to join them.

I mean very,very slowly... elves lore wise give birth roughly once in a hundred years or more don't they...?

[Stardrift]

Void elves just leave a bad taste in my mouth, lore-wise. I didn't think Blizz could make a bigger mistake than the Pandaren. While I like the Pandaren, they were horribly mishandled. They also at least had a background to come from.

Void elves however, don't. They were just pulled out of Brack's ass.

[TheRevenantHero]

We'll get Venthyr before we ever get San'layn. And we're likely never getting Venthyr lol.

[Combatbutler]

Nope, the void elves should stay on their already tainted rock, instead of damaging the land any further.

[Diaphin]

I mean very,very slowly... elves lore wise give birth roughly once in a hundred years or more don't they...?

Yeah, but they are actually recruiting adult blood elves and high elves who want to join their rank.

[Dellis0991]

Just had an interesting thought. Ghostlands already has the dark vibe, what if it became some sort of void lands, and Deathlome was destroyed and rebuilt into a new void city .. dunno what the story would be (example of possibilities: 1. maybe the void elves wage a massive war against the void ethereals trying to take the Sunwell and Silvermoon and Ghostlands becomes some void heavy zone - or 2. maybe the alliance launch a campaign to retake Silvermoon, and they occupy up to Ghostlands and it becomes some new warfront type warzone, with the warfront section half in the newly renamed Voidlands and half in the sunny part of Eversong woods, Or 3. maybe it's a peaceful negotiation because of troubles with the void and they return their to help making it their base of operations.

Or

Would you prefer the San'layn become the next Blood elf allied race in the round 2 releases, with Deatholme rebuilt into a massive necropolis as the San'layn relocate from Icecrown citadel (they built from Saronite with scourge slave labour) and returned to Quel'thalas occupying the blighted/scarred side of Ghostlands in a revamp. You can also imagine the story here. Powerful San'layn ruler makes move on Quel'thalas, but renegade San'layn work with blood elves to foil the plan, end up staying in Ghostlands half to manage scourge left overs and any foreseeable trouble 2. Peaceful vision, San'layn fully join the horde, and move into Quel'thalas to help strengthen horde control against fears of alliance attacks.

Which would you prefer?

Void elves already have a place and they like there because it is a nexus point of void energy and they can study it safely away from Azeroth and it's population. Why the fuck would anyone let them make a whole city/town filled with void, that is extremely dangerous in many ways. The San'layn are a bunch of blood drinking assholes (Rest well Dreven the gnome dunking king) who will murder their allies without blinking, they should be eradicated, they don't deserve a place to congregate openly with anybody

[Soon-TM]

I mean very,very slowly... elves lore wise give birth roughly once in a hundred years or more don't they...?

If their maturing is proportional to their lifespans, they could barely start siring children by the age of 300 or so... It could happen, in principle... but it would be a veeeeeery sloooooooow population growth.

[Combatbutler]

If their maturing is proportional to their lifespans, they could barely start siring children by the age of 300 or so... It could happen, in principle... but it would be a veeeeeery sloooooooow population growth.

Elves are adults at pretty much the same rate as humans, they usually choose not to have many kids.

[ravenmoon]

Void elves already have a place and they like there because it is a nexus point of void energy and they can study it safely away from Azeroth and it's population. Why the fuck would anyone let them make a whole city/town filled with void, that is extremely dangerous in many ways. The San'layn are a bunch of blood drinking assholes (Rest well Dreven the gnome dunking king) who will murder their allies without blinking, they should be eradicated, they don't deserve a place to congregate openly with anybody

Oh.. why wouldn't they want to live in the land they are studying the void to protect? For a people and world htey love? And went to the alliance to hlep save?


You don't know the void elves do you.. They haven't abandoned Silvermoon or Quel'thalas, their exile is not voluntary.

I certainly don't think they plan to permanently be away, and they'll be the first to fly back home should the void launch an attack against Silvermoon or Quel'thalas.

If blizzard want to put the Void elves in Quel'thalas, it's so easy to write this.. whether they are a risk to the Sunwell or not, if they are the only hope to save from the void attacks.. they'll be back.

And this doesn't mean they can't be in other void nexus points..

[Vaedan]

I get that, totally, but in a scenario like this, isn't it obvious that for it to happen, something would have happened to cause a change, whether a war or catastrophe.

Unfortunately it doesn't seem a lot of people can imagine scenarios they can't see immediate connections concerning. So right now there doesn't seem any reason why void elves or how void elves can be there right, therefore they say it can't happen.

I'm saying forget about the reasons how we get there right, reasons can be invented. Would you think it's a cool idea to have something liek that there.

As a blood elf fan, I'm thinking the possibility of having some cool blood elf vs void elf scenarios or some interesting truce scenario. I'm thinking, would it look really cool if it was some void tinged forest, and had some amazing looking art work and worth doing.. I'm sure any situation that has void elves in Quel'thalas permanently would be interesting from a lore perspective (I wouldn't want us to be driven out, that i wouldn't like, but a both of us, could open possibilities.

Or is it going to be nicer to have like full on undead .. which for me is the lesser option because we've seen blighted land loads before and already done that.. what we haven't seen is a full on void affected forest.. maybe night elf druids and void elves work together to make it work... I'm sure alliance fans wanting more void elf/night elf interaction would like that, but why just alliance fans.. i think any warcraft fan would find it a bit intriguing to see void elves working with night elf druids- they seem so opposite too ( i mean hans't the emerald dream being fighting the void - i'd be interested to see them corpoerating and how the Thalassian hate is either managed or overcome .. who says being a horde fan you can't find all the lore interesting - maybe this is where blizz need to change the fandom, by doing things in places where it can be most interesting and where it can work. Nightbonre/night elves can be another area where this can be expxplored but in a very different way.

But I'm thinking more on the artistic contrast between a sunny golden paradise, full of Light like Eversong woods and Silvermoon is, and then a void, deep forest, and metropolis at the end where void elves area bout.

I think that's quite interesting. I would also like a normal version, where Quel'thalas actually gets a wood, and you have proper Farstrider lore expanded and you get that wood elf vibe the Farstriders give off. That would also be cool.

also the land can actually be expanded to have BOTH !! I like this even better..(it just popped into my head)

What if: we get that cool forest region with Farstriders, and then we get the void forest and void elf city.. the new Ghostlands is actually doubled in size and a mirror of Silvermoon but void elf built is sitting where Deathholme was formerly, and the hug lush green forest is what separates the void forest and void plain from the light one.

Sadly people are too partisan to see past hating each other and to actually see cool new possibilities. We have blood elf fans desperate for the alliance side characters not to have anything they have, which I understand, that use to be me (no longer - I hate factions - or rather what facitons have made the game before, and how racial nuance and lore has been sacrificed on its altar) and you have alliance fans perhaps too eager for this because they want horde stuff - but we seem to fight more than genuinely look to see what would be more interesting for the game and lore. And hating each other isn't always the best thing, esepcially when it's been shipped and overdone like it has, it needs a litlte of the opposite.

not 100% peace ofc, but areas where some cross faction team ups are actually genuinely looking like they could work or be sustained - which I'm thinking the two cross faction elven groups should be the guinea pig, they alone have the deep connections no other cross faction race has (well humans and forsaken have, but as the leading alliance race, its probably better to do this with night elf/Nightborne and void/high elf/blood elf) since these are not faction leaders.

I get why many won't want Quel'thalas to be a place where this happens - but I can't help but feel the motivation is factional, and not race based or because of interesting content and material that we can have in the story of the races - which is what I want more than anything right now in wow. I'm tired of boring constant faction war, and tire of running into super cosmic threat nth level threat.. /yawn. If blood elves weren't on the horde or neutral, they actually would entertain this thought and might consider exploring where it would go.

Well so what if blood elves are horde? So what if Void elves are alliance? it could still be interesting to have their opposite counter actually nearby in the land they ancestrally share.. it could make the situation a lot more interesting, whether because of the constant threat of danger, or the nuance of the political climate having high/voids around can cause.. either route could be interesting. warcraft is crying for exploring basic options completely ignored to push faction conflict or interstellar threats while it has the background in place to make such racial explorations quite interesting and fun for fans.

The development could actually be quite good for both horde and alliance.. this is what a skilful creative writer can achieve even with opposing sides. Me thinks they far too often don't try hard enough. they should force these elves together and explore that.. Night elf/nightborne and blood elf/void/high elf are the only groups uniquely in this position that such a meshing together can be very interesting and entertaining and produce something good or meaningful


Just takes creativity.

I can think of scenario tied to Light vs Void expansion. We've seen Void ethereals taking interest in the Sunwell. Being reignated by spark of Naaru, it might prove potent enough to open great rift for Void forces to emerge on Azeroth. There is also a Il'gynoths whisper which I'm not sure was explained yet.

Its survace blaze bright, masking shadows bellow.

I believe it might connect to the Sunwell. My scenario would be different from Alliance and Horde PoV.

Alliance
Void elves discover clues of Void activity in northern Eastern Kingdoms. Alleria sends a group of ren'dorei to investigate. As Void elves arrive to Light's Hope Chapel, they see Paladins fighting the Void. Together, they face the leader of invading forces, a Void ethereals. When they defeat his servants and confront him, he taints paladins with the Void and take control of them. He intends to mind control void elves too, but they are immune. He escapes through Void rift and ren'dorei kill corrupted paladins. Void elves follow the trails of the Void and it leads them to Quel'thalas. As they sneak past blood elves, a Void rifts opens and Void ethereals emerge. Some of Void elves stay behind to fight ethereals, most of them go directly to Quel'danas. They find Sunwell Guardians defeated and Void ethereals trying to transform Sunwell into huge Void rift. Ren'dorei defeat ethereals and Seal the rift, but it turns out that Sunwell was darkened. Blood elves arrive...

Horde
Shamans have visions of encroaching shadows. Lady Liadrin recieves a message from Light's Hope Chapel, requesting aid from her Blood Knights. When they arrive, they find fallen paladins tainted with the Void and broken blade bearing ren'dorei markings. Lady Liadring calls for retreat to Quel'thalas. When they come back home, they find local defense occupied by attacking Void ethereals. There are reports of Attack from both Eversong and Ghostlands. Lady Liadring lead the effort to repel these invaders. Soon, she discovers dying ren'dorei, with last words "Void... Sunwell... The Gateway...". Liadrin gathers her knights and hurry to the Quel'danas, where she finds darkened Sunwell and Void elves.

Possihle conclusions:
1) Hostile end: Blood elves and Void elves fight each other. This conclusion further allienate both groups.
2) Truce: Void elves manage to explain what happened and blood elves let them help.

Possible outcomes:
- Darkened Sunwell might affect some blood elves, transforming some into Void elves.
- Blood elves might consider letting Void elves near Sunwell in order to secure it from future assaults
- Void ethereal activities and darkening of Sunwell might change some parts of Quel'thalas
- magical Addiction might be a problem again.