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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    Active subs don't even really matter at this point either because blizzard has shown repeated they can hype up box sales every two years to more than cover the short fall from sub drop.
    Baiscally this. The top tier players, the ones that rush through stuff usually overspend a lot by buying tokens for money and converting them into gold and pay the sub for a lot of other people. Add to them the casual ones that are constant and keep the sub going, they're raking the money in anyway.

    The fun part, where he's right, is that the most refined part of the game (raids and M+) is the one that the least people partake in. But makes sense since it's the most visible one, just think about the world first race and the various M+ tournaments.
    You tried, and you failed. What have you learned? That's better not to try at all.

  2. #82
    The Insane Acidbaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    I forgot to mention this. We're all paying monthly for the game - i find progressively more difficult to justify the subscriptions when i cannot get what i want out of it. So far, i stopped playing multiple times before SL just to promptly return. Which isn't bad imho, it's just what i would do if i jumped from game to game; hell it's even cheaper compared to buy a new game each month or so.

    But when you start considering how much you're spending and not getting "enough" from it (which is different for every player) something's not working right imo.
    Throw in a service cost of a transfer here and there to get to more active guild or dungeon group and you are easily paying more than a new game. I personally do see me going back it is fun for about a few weeks till you notice you are simply running around doing chores.
    “My philosophy is: It’s none of my business what people say of me and think of me. I am what I am and I do what I do. I expect nothing and accept everything. And it makes life so much easier.
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  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    I've said for years that MMOs are actually pretty freaking expensive to play. (I think I counted that Firelands cost players around $380 to play - for example - if they stayed subbed through the whole cycle)

    People usually argue, "But you got so much playtime over the course of that time!" and maybe you did, sure. But was the quality of that time really that high? It's entirely subjective, of course. But it doesn't sound like it to me.
    To me at that time it just was. I'd probably have spent that money on other stuff or other games. I had lots of free time, and was fun to just log in Ventrilo or Teamspeak to talk with the other guys.

    Right now, i have we less time and the few hours i can spare i want them to be of quality. So i'm way more picky about timegated stuff etc. There's a reason why i love Diablo/ARPGS/hac'n'slash: because my progression is my own. I do not care shit about what other players are doing, or what position in the ladder i am. I have fun because a game is fun to play.

    In WoW, you cannot really do this, being a multiplayer game. I'm fine with preparation to make my performance better, so no one in my group wastes time, myself included. But generally the community is so focused on an non-existent race players themselves created and now are enforcing also on people who don't care about it or don't want to partake in it. Luckily KSM is in the realm of doable without too much trouble.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    Throw in a service cost of a transfer here and there to get to more active guild or dungeon group and you are easily paying more than a new game. I personally do see me going back it is fun for about a few weeks till you notice you are simply running around doing chores.
    I'm returning for 9.1 because of the new guild/raid group i found that's awesome. I have Lost Ark on my playlist, and that's going to come in autumn. Hope i'm done with 9.1 before it, so i can just jump into it full time, and then see if i still want to return to WoW.
    You tried, and you failed. What have you learned? That's better not to try at all.

  4. #84
    Stood in the Fire Agent Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AcidicSyn View Post
    Yes, competition breeds excellence. The rest of OPs post is a bit silly though.
    Is it silly? Please dont misunderstand the post. Its not another "IS WOW DYING" shitpost.

    The facts are ex Blizzard employees are making a game that can be literal shit, but the hype train is taking off precisely because they are ex Blizzard devs who are adored.

    Then we have Riot games who are obviously famous making an MMO

    Then Ashes

    Then Amazons New World

    Im not saying any ONE of these will be the WoW killer, because some of us will hate Ashes but love Palia while others hate Palia and Ashes but love New World.

    Im suggesting that these will collectively have an adverse financial impact on Blizzard.

  5. #85
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanstos View Post
    Is it silly? Please dont misunderstand the post. Its not another "IS WOW DYING" shitpost.

    The facts are ex Blizzard employees are making a game that can be literal shit, but the hype train is taking off precisely because they are ex Blizzard devs who are adored.

    Then we have Riot games who are obviously famous making an MMO

    Then Ashes

    Then Amazons New World

    Im not saying any ONE of these will be the WoW killer, because some of us will hate Ashes but love Palia while others hate Palia and Ashes but love New World.

    Im suggesting that these will collectively have an adverse financial impact on Blizzard.
    This sams thing has happened to me and time again.

    Wildstar comes out made by ex blizzard devs with a hype train.

    Swtor comes out with massive brand recognition and made by a big name studio.

    Then rift.

    Then guild wars.

    And on and on.

    All while wows profits grow and grow.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  6. #86
    Stood in the Fire Agent Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    This sams thing has happened to me and time again.

    Wildstar comes out made by ex blizzard devs with a hype train.

    Swtor comes out with massive brand recognition and made by a big name studio.

    Then rift.

    Then guild wars.

    And on and on.

    All while wows profits grow and grow.
    Very true and I concede, the only difference now is WoW players are, with good reason, not really liking the game. All the games you mentioned had 1 massive competition who is Blizzard but that same company no longer exists the way it did.

    I have predicted some crazy stuff here and other locations, im just saying that this could be the killing blows.

  7. #87
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanstos View Post
    Very true and I concede, the only difference now is WoW players are, with good reason, not really liking the game. All the games you mentioned had 1 massive competition who is Blizzard but that same company no longer exists the way it did.

    I have predicted some crazy stuff here and other locations, im just saying that this could be the killing blows.
    That’s not a difference through, at the time those games came out the community had also worked it self up into a tizzy rather it be because of cata’S “poor” launch, lfr, dragon soul, the troll dungeon patch, ect. Even big content creators were leaving wow sighting it’s drop in quality with people like total biscuit.

    Nothing has changed.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  8. #88
    Immortal Nnyco's Avatar
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    We had that 10years ago, when crappy mmos like rift, swtor, etc came out.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Crabs have been removed from the game... because if I see another one I’m just going to totally lose it. *sobbing* I’m sorry, I just can’t right now... I just... OK just give me a minute, I’ll be OK..

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    This. The only difference is that now WoW is so bad that people are likely to jump ship and never look back (whereas when Warhammer AoR and LotRO and STO and SWTOR came out, WoW was still good enough that people switched back)
    Indeed. If back when LotRO came out,WoW was in the state where it is today,there would have been an actual WoW killer,but that's just not how it was when dozens of "WoW killers" came out every year.
    However the ones mentioned by the OP don't look any good either so I don't think they'll matter either

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanstos View Post
    Is it silly? Please dont misunderstand the post. Its not another "IS WOW DYING" shitpost.

    The facts are ex Blizzard employees are making a game that can be literal shit, but the hype train is taking off precisely because they are ex Blizzard devs who are adored.

    Then we have Riot games who are obviously famous making an MMO

    Then Ashes

    Then Amazons New World

    Im not saying any ONE of these will be the WoW killer, because some of us will hate Ashes but love Palia while others hate Palia and Ashes but love New World.

    Im suggesting that these will collectively have an adverse financial impact on Blizzard.
    I think it is a bit silly yes. Though I'm not trying to attack your opinion, just disagreeing with it. It didn't come off as a wow is dying shitpost to me though, I do genuinely believe that you believe these games can collectively hurt Blizzard; and hey, there's every possibility that your predictions are entirely accurate, and if that comes to pass I'll eat my crow with a smile. Right now though? I just don't think the past supports your prediction. I've been wrong before though, plenty of times. /shrug

    EDIT: Oh, and I also think the kind of game matters. I'm not familiar with the other examples, but in the case of Palia, I feel like that's comparing fruit pies and engine grease. I don't think Palia will appeal to the kinds of players that make any sizable chunk of WoWs playerbase, not unless Blizzard decided to add stuff like (proper) player housing to the game.
    Last edited by AcidicSyn; 2021-06-16 at 04:39 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never....BURN IT"

  11. #91
    The Insane Acidbaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post

    I'm returning for 9.1 because of the new guild/raid group i found that's awesome. I have Lost Ark on my playlist, and that's going to come in autumn. Hope i'm done with 9.1 before it, so i can just jump into it full time, and then see if i still want to return to WoW.
    That is good that would be about the only reason for me to do so, sadly real life gets in the way and so i cannot commit my evenings as i used to. So i await Amazons title as the lost ark probably wont be released here due to lootboxes. I even went as far as reconsidering to return to Runescape despite having given away a lot of my stuff or sold it back in the day or else i would be a billionaire in there but the character and progression remains but it is a grind to get lost in.
    “My philosophy is: It’s none of my business what people say of me and think of me. I am what I am and I do what I do. I expect nothing and accept everything. And it makes life so much easier.
    ― Anthony Hopkins

  12. #92
    The game wouldn’t be so bad if they didn’t only very heavily steer you towards only doing the current raid tiers, expansion dungeons, and pvp (which gets neglected) for gear that becomes worthless once the next patch hits and instead added new various content, gave it proper updates, and kept it in the game.

    If they’re going to go all out on being a lobby dungeon/raid/PvP simulator, which they basically have, then do it right. There is 70+ dungeons and 20+ raid in the game that are essentially in the trash for no reason. Why?

    I genuinely can’t see this game prospering beyond it’s rabid hardcore base in the modern world of stuff like game pass with a subscription. It looks like a joke and it is.
    Last edited by Mojo03; 2021-06-16 at 05:00 PM.

  13. #93
    The Insane Acidbaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanstos View Post
    Is it silly? Please dont misunderstand the post. Its not another "IS WOW DYING" shitpost.

    The facts are ex Blizzard employees are making a game that can be literal shit, but the hype train is taking off precisely because they are ex Blizzard devs who are adored.

    Then we have Riot games who are obviously famous making an MMO

    Then Ashes

    Then Amazons New World

    Im not saying any ONE of these will be the WoW killer, because some of us will hate Ashes but love Palia while others hate Palia and Ashes but love New World.

    Im suggesting that these will collectively have an adverse financial impact on Blizzard.
    A lot of people stick with WoW due to their social ties in the game or the sunken cost fallacy having issues wanting to start over anew elsewhere.
    For all its flaws the PvE instanced content is still entertaining in WoW if you have a solid pre-made what goes back to social ties.

    The game is also showing its age, but there is also the possibility that things might change in design philosophy although i find that unlikely as major drops in the player base never really did that and revenue is still at an all time high.
    “My philosophy is: It’s none of my business what people say of me and think of me. I am what I am and I do what I do. I expect nothing and accept everything. And it makes life so much easier.
    ― Anthony Hopkins

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo03 View Post
    The game wouldn’t be so bad if they didn’t only very heavily steer you towards only doing the current raid tiers, expansion dungeons, and pvp (which gets neglected) for gear that becomes worthless once the next patch hits and instead added new various content, gave it proper updates, and kept it in the game.

    If they’re going to go all out on being a lobby dungeon/raid/PvP simulator, which they basically have, then do it right. There is 70+ dungeons and 20+ raid in the game that are essentially in the trash for no reason. Why?

    I genuinely can’t see this game prospering beyond it’s rabid hardcore base in the modern world of stuff like game pass with a subscription. It looks like a joke and it is.
    that would be the only way i'd be able to enjoy that content. the thought of running 1 raid over and over for months until a new one pops up just doesn't work for me. but i think the people into that stuff want it the way it is. at least when it comes to WoW. in other games having raids stay relevant throughout seems to work fine.
    I had fun once, it was terrible.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanstos View Post
    and other game developers are taking advantage of it.

    It just dawned on me while I was sat here, there doesn't have to be a singular WoW killer, with companies like Amazon, Riot, and Singularity 6 (and more) coming out with their own MMO's. All that has to happen is these developers individually absorb a chunk of the current WoW base. Blizzard essentially will compete with several major viable companies, instead of just 1 at a time when they are failing miserably. its just a matter of time.

    Does competition breed excellence?
    Why wouldn't people want to play different games when blizzard corporate mongrels are incapable of delivering anything truly meaningful.

    P.S WoW killer is an illusion, the provocateurs who keep invoking it, are expecting that there will be some magical game where blizzard will be forced to shut down the servers and quit the wow's development altogether, that's not gonna happen. WoW has been already killed multiple times by every single person who quit the game to play something else.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    if any of these games end up being successful Blizzard will simply take the systems or mechanics that make those games stand out and add them to WoW. so yes? also not really? eh?????
    I wouldn't be so sure. Ion seems extremely reluctant to adopt e.g. some of FF14's mechanics, even if they are working just fine there.
    Current state of WoW lore:
    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    Who'd have known that the Domination guy whose aesthetics are 80% chains wasn't into freedom. Nobody could have seen this coming.

  17. #97
    Competition is always good.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanstos View Post
    Im suggesting that these will collectively have an adverse financial impact on Blizzard.
    A small blip? Maybe. But nothing in the long run as this has all happened before with new mmo's having massive hype. It isn't something that will impact just WoW either as there are other mmo's on the market that will be impacted just as much as anyone else. It happens. But it is nothing new or really anything to worry about.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  19. #99
    The Insane Acidbaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    I wouldn't be so sure. Ion seems extremely reluctant to adopt e.g. some of FF14's mechanics, even if they are working just fine there.
    Ion is very much part of the raiding and competitive PvE scene, i would find it very unlikely that he would be an advocate of adopting FF14 mechanics that have a different content and gameplay focus for the most part in my opinion.
    “My philosophy is: It’s none of my business what people say of me and think of me. I am what I am and I do what I do. I expect nothing and accept everything. And it makes life so much easier.
    ― Anthony Hopkins

  20. #100
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erolian View Post
    Hmm no its not familiar at all outside of maybe words that people choose to use. The point was that now vs then is completely different because we have data to prove that many many years ago people saying it were just flat out wrong and the game was actually growing and becoming more where as these days we have data to point to the exact opposite
    Hm...we did have data for a long time though. We knew that WoW peeked at 12 million, then went up and down until Blizzard stopped reporting subs.

    It just immediately led to "WoW is dying" - even in 2008...because during Classic and TBC the population apparently grew at a much higher rate than in WotLK, some took that as an indication of ppl losing interest and decline.

    And it constantly went the way of ridiculous stuff like:

    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/90/43/e3/9...a678e86e40.jpg

    ...and most of all ppl using the data to "scientifically" (I am not kidding) proof that WoW will end in 4/2015:

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...2#post29402702

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