Blizzard created the perfect storm

[crusadernero]

and other game developers are taking advantage of it.

It just dawned on me while I was sat here, there doesn't have to be a singular WoW killer, with companies like Amazon, Riot, and Singularity 6 (and more) coming out with their own MMO's. All that has to happen is these developers individually absorb a chunk of the current WoW base. Blizzard essentially will compete with several major viable companies, instead of just 1 at a time when they are failing miserably. its just a matter of time.

Does competition breed excellence?

It all depends on how those MMOs pan out. I remember when rift, swtor, gw2, tera, Wildstar++ launched about 6-10 years ago. Right when those games released alot of people flocked to them and played it. It continued for a while and all of those games "died" off. Most are still going, some are completly shut down.

We gotta remember that theres no other mmo out there with such a huge playerbase that has such a strong connection to the game. Many of us has played the game more or less for 15+ years. We might get distracted by other games now and then, but we always return to wow.

So when it comes to these new MMOs coming out we gotta ask ourself: Will they be games that hooks us right in as wow did/does? Will it be MMOs that makes millions of players outright addicted and sucked in for years as wow did/does?

I have little to no faith in New World as a long lived and highly popular MMO. I'll play it at launch and have fun with it, but I doubt it will last.
AOC is to far off to judge now. But so far, it doesnt give me the "this is it" feeling.
The MMORPG that Riot is making might be awesome, cause at this point we know nothing at all.

People are looking for that next big thing that captures them like wow. People just dont want a good MMO, they want a god damn behemoth of a MMORPG worthy of ruining your personal life for.

For all we know 9.1 might be great, 9.2 might be great and 10.0 might be god damn epic. wow might be in a rot right now, but it can quickly turn around.

People will get distracted by other MMOs, but I doubt the masses will be captured by a new MMORPG in the coming years that wow managed to do. People will play the MMOs, but they will probably for the most part quit the genre or go back to wow. Personally im going to check out most mmos coming out, but I highly doubt it will be long lived.

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This only applies in an industry that strives for excellence. The gaming industry has sadly been drowning in mediocrity for many, many years. Instead of breeding excellence, they're only breeding uninspired clones that are trying to chase the new trend.

Also, WoW became popular not because it was a good MMO, it became popular because it was a Blizzard game. Blizzard back then was known for excellence and had a huge following. All those companies trying to get a piece of Blizzard's pie never stood a chance, because they didn't realize that those millions of players weren't part of the MMO crowd; and it is why when WoW players leave the game, they typically don't go back into the pool of MMO players.

A very important point. For many its either wow the MMORPG or no MMORPG at all.

[Gorsameth]

It may be true that gaming as a whole benefits from competition and improves because of it, but the MMO genre definitely doesn't seem to.

Then again, I suppose multiplayer games as a whole have a habit of just leaning on their core and not changing much. It's not limited to MMOs.

The problem is refinement.
You can't compete against a Honda Civic with a Ford model T.

A new MMO had to compete against 17 years of WoW development, refinement and legacy.

Day 1 your new MMO has to be able to compete with the best that WoW has to offer and that is where most of them failed. Be it strait up lack of endgame, faulty mechanics or the impossibility of keeping people busy long enough to produce new content compared to a game with years of old content players can interact with when they churn through the new stuff.

[Mojo03]

Perhaps, i think SWTOR would have been better received as a different sort of online game rather than an MMO. Should have never tried to follow the dungeon and raids formula in my opinion.

Also do not knock on New world just yet once they know they got a solid product Amazon has the know how and reach to market a product, considering how silent they are and how much time the developers are getting you would almost get the impression they the entire intend is to grow it slowly and not go for mass box sales on an over hyped product. If they got some good systems in there to support a more casual player like housing (RIP wildstar) i think they might be a bigger surprise.

What i find interesting about Riots LoL based MMO is that they have a large pool of characters and thus classes, skills and such to draw from not sure how well that translates into a MMO as i have no idea how it looks, is it going to be third person, isometric and so on all big questions still.

I think New World will do just okay.

Regardless of being backed by Amazon - It doesnt have the “wow factor” to appeal to the masses or the novelty and finesse to attract the majority of the MMO community.

It’s very middle of the road.

[Edge-]

It may be true that gaming as a whole benefits from competition and improves because of it, but the MMO genre definitely doesn't seem to.

Then again, I suppose multiplayer games as a whole have a habit of just leaning on their core and not changing much. It's not limited to MMOs.

It does, it's just that given the prohibitively expensive nature of MMO's as well as industry trends often being pretty fickle/short lived, they're an especially big risk to take. So they're usually played a bit safer as a result, but we still see some pretty solid entries of the years that tried a helluva lot of different things and took risks/pushed quality. A great many simply didn't pan out unfortunately (Tabula Rasa, Secret World, EQ Landmark, Firefall, Hellgate etc.), while others eventually sorted themselves but scaled way back despite pushing for high quality bars (SWTOR) or never sorted themselves (WS).

The MMO genre doesn't benefit from competition in the same way since these are long-term time investments, so folks aren't bouncing between them they way they may with a CoD and other shooters or different RPG's or action games. There's much less "space" so to speak, because they need to maintain these players and keep them spending in the long-run, and there's only so much pie around. It's considerably less of a issue for non-MMO's.

But it's interesting to see some MMO's are getting second leases on life and doing good work like Planetside 2. After PS:Arena imploded because it was a garbage game nobody asked for the team is doing what is probably more in terms of support for Planetside 2 than the game has seen in years. It's pretty awesome.

[Luxeley]

Competition most definitely does breed and inspire excellence. For MMOs to exceed their former heights of popularity, they need to break new ground or significantly improve the delivery and functionality of older systems. Blizzard hasn't done this and no other MMO has done it and none of the new MMOs slated for release in the upcoming months do it. Going forward WOW may suffer from the "death from 1k papercuts" analogy. Every shiny new MMO does chip away at WOWs pedestal, including Blizzard with their introduction of WOW Classic and BC.

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To be fair. GW2 would have been a great competitor to WoW if they followed the holy trinity (tank/healer/DPS/support) and had raids at launch.

That's a fair point. Gw2 is a superior game in many ways. Blizzard knows that which is why they've copied and in some cases improved many of the systems Gw2 offers. For example: scaling zones, acct wide cheevs, mount utility, heritage armor, transmogs, dynamic spawning, shared XP on world content and more all came from Gw2.

[Cyclone Jack]

Well, the name did a lot at the time, but lets not pretend that RTS fans alone carried WoW to where it ended up.

It was also an incredibly impressive entry to a genre that had been hungry for something new and better, at a time when said genre was just waiting to explode. It looked better than it's competitors, played better, was more accessible, had far more robust systems...it was quite literally the definition of a "next-generation" game at the time.

Blizzard had a huge following for a long time because they released hit after hit; even their earlier, smaller games were solid. And yes, while WoW improved on the look and feel of the MMO, that initial influx of players was mostly due to them already being Blizzard fans; most of which had no real idea what an MMO was, but were simply hyped up for Blizzard's next game. And you are correct, it wasn't just the millions of people who were playing Warcraft 3* and Starcraft*, but also the millions of people who were playing Diablo 2*.

*Note: All three of these games had record-breaking sales, becoming the fastest-selling PC games of their time. Think about just that alone, Blizzard had released 3 of the best selling games ever, in a row.

I would also argue that it was the right game at the right time (very similar to when Doom was released back in '93). DSL was becoming more and more available and affordable, gaming in general was starting to become more mainstream and wasn't looked down upon as much (though you'd still get that awkward look at work if you were talking about video games), and the idea of becoming an avatar and socializing with people around the world was a new concept to many people, all coupled with it being another top quality release from Blizzard (once they got past their technical hurdles or having too many customers too quickly).

I'm also not trying to downplay the game's design or accomplishments; like I said above, Blizzard had just released three of the fasted selling PC games of all time, in a row, so they kind of knew what they were doing. However, I do believe that if WoW were released by any other company, the game would not have grown to the size that it did.

EDIT: I also want to note that MMOs at that time were happy to see hundreds of thousands of players, even tens of thousands. Blizzard launched with a massive fan base already in the millions. Other MMOs didn't even stand a chance.

[Edge-]

EDIT: I also want to note that MMOs at that time were happy to see hundreds of thousands of players, even tens of thousands. Blizzard launched with a massive fan base already in the millions. Other MMOs didn't even stand a chance.

Not just "happy", it was as monumental as WoW hitting millions of subs. IIRC when EQ1 launched the notion that it required a graphics card was viewed as a huge risk and pretty unheard of. Ultima had hit something like 200K which was already "insane" for the time, but I think before WoW launched EQ1 was in the like 4-500K territory which was similarly groundbreaking.

Other MMO's were mostly fine even after WoW. Sure they weren't going to compete on its level, but stuff like EQ1/Ultima/Ascheron's Call etc. were all still chugging along even if they did lose players. Hell, EQ1 and Ultima Online are still running and getting content updates/paid expansions. Hell, EQ1 has almost 3x the monthly active users, 3x the subscribers, and 2x the annual revenue of EQ2. Which is pretty crazy.

https://massivelyop.com/2020/12/02/e...thanks-to-eg7/

[sam86]

WoW rocketed to fame by being THE casual MMO where the existing MMO's were all hardcore.

Asking where WoW would be if it was casual is completely missing where the game came from.

i was going to answer but @Mysterymask answered it better
but i disagree with him, wow was 'casual' because mmo was way too brutal and unfair, i'd give wow tbc or wrath as most balanced, not unfair but also not right click either
wow now is a solo game with mmo as what seems afterthought than actual core of game, and for a RPG game some non-rpg games are having more rpg elements than wow it seems

[Cyclone Jack]

Not just "happy", it was as monumental as WoW hitting millions of subs. IIRC when EQ1 launched the notion that it required a graphics card was viewed as a huge risk and pretty unheard of. Ultima had hit something like 200K which was already "insane" for the time, but I think before WoW launched EQ1 was in the like 4-500K territory which was similarly groundbreaking.

Other MMO's were mostly fine even after WoW. Sure they weren't going to compete on its level, but stuff like EQ1/Ultima/Ascheron's Call etc. were all still chugging along even if they did lose players. Hell, EQ1 and Ultima Online are still running and getting content updates/paid expansions. Hell, EQ1 has almost 3x the monthly active users, 3x the subscribers, and 2x the annual revenue of EQ2. Which is pretty crazy.

https://massivelyop.com/2020/12/02/e...thanks-to-eg7/

I guess I used the wrong wording when saying other MMOs didn't have a chance. What I should have said was that other MMOs didn't have a chance at hitting those same numbers. WoW launched with millions, something unheard of at the time, and even for years to come. And yes, other MMOs were running just fine, and continue to run fine, with their normal number of subscribers. WoW truly was an anomaly when it came to subscribers.

[Gorsameth]

i was going to answer but @Mysterymask answered it better
but i disagree with him, wow was 'casual' because mmo was way too brutal and unfair, i'd give wow tbc or wrath as most balanced, not unfair but also not right click either
wow now is a solo game with mmo as what seems afterthought than actual core of game, and for a RPG game some non-rpg games are having more rpg elements than wow it seems

right click?
retail rotations vs vanilla/tbc 'rotations'?

I quit my enh shaman at the start of WotLK because the 'optimal' dps was a /random macro that simply spammed whatever wasn't on cooldown.

Nor has WoW ever had 'real' RPG elements.

And yes its easier to solo play without interacting thanks to LFD/LFR but that only made the player base bigger, not smaller. People don't want to interact with others, you can be just as social in Retail, but we don't have to, so we chose not be.

[Mysterymask]

Nor has WoW ever had 'real' RPG elements.

It's even better an old selling point of wow back then was it didn't HAVE a lot of the old RPG mechanics that other MMOs did. Things like having to type out conversations for quests, having to learn to swim, only having a loading screen between continents, carrying weight, getting resurrection sickness when someone else ressed you, having to carry a lantern cause your race can't see in the dark, having to train in drinking, having a hunger bar, etc etc etc

[Shaetha]

and other game developers are taking advantage of it.

It just dawned on me while I was sat here, there doesn't have to be a singular WoW killer, with companies like Amazon, Riot, and Singularity 6 (and more) coming out with their own MMO's. All that has to happen is these developers individually absorb a chunk of the current WoW base. Blizzard essentially will compete with several major viable companies, instead of just 1 at a time when they are failing miserably. its just a matter of time.

Does competition breed excellence?

Competition does breed excellence, but it's the ideas from the other games that are valuable to the market. You have to keep trying new things. Customers hate new things, so good ideas certainly aren't coming from them, and not every idea is going to work.

WoW is a 16 year old game so it has a lot of people with no self respect or self esteem trolling forums for games they don't like trying their level best to ruin it for others. Like the people that had to audacity to complain about a patch coming sooner than expected. They've had 7 months. It's their own damn fault if they aren't ready.

Comments like that really motivate developers to ignore the community. Way to go guys. Anything you can do to ruin others' fun, I guess.

[kaminaris]

Competition does breed excellence, but it's the ideas from the other games that are valuable to the market. You have to keep trying new things. Customers hate new things, so good ideas certainly aren't coming from them, and not every idea is going to work.

WoW is a 16 year old game so it has a lot of people with no self respect or self esteem trolling forums for games they don't like trying their level best to ruin it for others. Like the people that had to audacity to complain about a patch coming sooner than expected. They've had 7 months. It's their own damn fault if they aren't ready.

Comments like that really motivate developers to ignore the community. Way to go guys. Anything you can do to ruin others' fun, I guess.

I think you misunderstood their complaints. People didn't complain it's too soon, people complained that blizzard basically said "here, 2 weeks patch comes out live, deal with it". So in short, a complete disrespect towards players and/or complete lack of time planning skills.

The origin of those complaints is pretty much blizzard lack of transparency. Like a black plexiglass.

You may argue 2 weeks is "enough" but the reality is blizz didn't say anything for pretty damn long time. So in terms of like 200 days, 14 is pretty short notice.

Compare it to like AoC dev streams, its like day-night difference.

[Shaetha]

I think you misunderstood their complaints. People didn't complain it's too soon, people complained that blizzard basically said "here, 2 weeks patch comes out live, deal with it". So in short, a complete disrespect towards players and/or complete lack of time planning skills.

The origin of those complaints is pretty much blizzard lack of transparency. Like a black plexiglass.

You may argue 2 weeks is "enough" but the reality is blizz didn't say anything for pretty damn long time. So in terms of like 200 days, 14 is pretty short notice.

Compare it to like AoC dev streams, its like day-night difference.

Complaining about time planning when you've had 7 months.

Nah.

[kaminaris]

Complaining about time planning when you've had 7 months.

Nah.

So you didn't understood I see.

Yah.

Imagine your web service provider suddenly said they are reworking entire interface and all apps and its gonna hit in 2 weeks.

[Clozer]

So you didn't understood I see.

Yah.

Imagine your web service provider suddenly said they are reworking entire interface and all apps and its gonna hit in 2 weeks.

PTR was live for months. What are you talking about? Everyone knew it was coming FOR MONTHS. Just not 100% sure when exactly. Also, why does it matter? Do you take vacation or something for a 2-hour questline?

[Shaetha]

So you didn't understood I see.

Yah.

Imagine your web service provider suddenly said they are reworking entire interface and all apps and its gonna hit in 2 weeks.

Okay, how long was PTR open?

Also, the idea that players feel the need to have access to all the knowledge immediately is a big part of why the magic is gone.

[kaminaris]

PTR was live for months. What are you talking about? Everyone knew it was coming FOR MONTHS. Just not 100% sure when exactly. Also, why does it matter? Do you take vacation or something for a 2-hour questline?

That is exactly the problem, I absolutely detest this disrespectful attitude of blizz. Knowing when something hits means you could for example take some days off, plan your stuff ahead, but no, lets just tell people its gonna hit in 2 weeks. You know that people have stuff IRL right? It's not just about game.

Like they do in PTR with raid tests literally like day before.

[Clozer]

That is exactly the problem, I absolutely detest this disrespectful attitude of blizz. Knowing when something hits means you could for example take some days off, plan your stuff ahead, but no, lets just tell people its gonna hit in 2 weeks. You know that people have stuff IRL right? It's not just about game.

Like they do in PTR with raid tests literally like day before.

If people change their IRL schedule to play WoW - they surely have other issues than a 2 week end of patch warning.

[Acidbaron]

It's even better an old selling point of wow back then was it didn't HAVE a lot of the old RPG mechanics that other MMOs did. Things like having to type out conversations for quests, having to learn to swim, only having a loading screen between continents, carrying weight, getting resurrection sickness when someone else ressed you, having to carry a lantern cause your race can't see in the dark, having to train in drinking, having a hunger bar, etc etc etc

Ah the days where you lost a good chunk of experiences because you ventured too far or took a risk exploring, or even losing your items upon death. It is sort of amusing to see how games progress at one point a large part these elements became unwanted and now we recently had a peak of survival games that did just that.