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  1. #41
    BFA didn't make Thalyssra and the Nightborne very sympathetic with them rebelling against an evil tyrant only to go settle for another one, and to help her against their own kin, without showing any remorse for helping those who attacked their kin, burned Teldrassil and commited many many other monstruosities under Sylvanas.

    With that it would perfectly understandable and justified for Night Elves to not be too cordial to their cousins.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by geco View Post
    That I want to see even if they are not Playable.
    Kaldorei and Kaldorei-Forsakens. I want you to make the "passes" so by the way we have an excuse for internal plot and show the state of the Kaldorei.

    (and incidentally take that stone away from the Forsaken if they take Calia better)
    Possibly, Kaldorei Dark Rangers and Shal'dorei Archers and Nighthunters, talking and meeting with each other?

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    Possibly, Kaldorei Dark Rangers and Shal'dorei Archers and Nighthunters, talking and meeting with each other?
    Now that you mention it. Something interesting may be some kind of ritual competition. Some hunting in the name of Elune.
    Some attempt to file rough edges that almost certainly goes wrong.

    If it was something important in the plot it would be great if it fails for BFA XD. It would be a way to maintain the consequences if you punish people a lot.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    It's the fact that Blood Elves and Nightborne can relate to each other on a deep level regarding magical dependence.
    And Nightborne Mages don't suddenly cancel Blood Elf Mages, just like Troll and Undead Mages aren't cancelled.
    It's nice, but once you know it, and the relationship is formed, that's it, done, with no developments it gets boring.

    Nightborne and night elves - whether Highborne or Darnassian have so many things too to relate to Nightborne. Because there is no relationship yet, these can points for interesting development, should they lead to something a conclusion that results because of those things, then it becomes nice, but no longer more interesting for a continuing story. It becomes stuff I found interesting, but it's cute now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    During the faction assaults, Blood Elves and Nightborne took up the role of being the Honorbound Arcanists with the Blood Elven Blood Magi holding a presence in Nazmir.
    Blood Elf Mages also fought in the Arathi highlands.

    It's also the counter to a Night Elf and Void Elf friendship, which is different and controversial, but Blizzard have made it work through Shandris and Umbric.

    The Alliance elf friendship is purposely different from the Horde elf friendship and both work. Alliance needs less predictable friendships.
    There is no night elf and void elf friendship, not yet, it's one i hope they pursue.. but Tanaria you're still cut up about them cutting off showing much blood elf arcane involvement/ What did you expect? They even surprised me. We thought they'd occasionally swap in a blood elf for a Nightborne mage, but they just swapped all blood elves for Nightborne - to do essentially exactly what the blood elves can do, it's not new and it gets boring quickly.

    Fine you may love it and find it very interesting, but there really isn't much interesting about the Nightborne there, you are just loving blood elves having friends.. not because there is anything interesting, just that you like having fancy arcane wizard arm candy. If you want interesting, start having night elves and Nightborne interact, and make it more than about i hate you because you're on the opposite faction..

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Terrorthatflapsinthenight View Post
    BFA didn't make Thalyssra and the Nightborne very sympathetic with them rebelling against an evil tyrant only to go settle for another one, and to help her against their own kin, without showing any remorse for helping those who attacked their kin, burned Teldrassil and commited many many other monstruosities under Sylvanas.

    With that it would perfectly understandable and justified for Night Elves to not be too cordial to their cousins.
    BFA whitewashed her character completely.. by not only joining the horde but staying silent concerning the WoT, and basically being warchief puppet, her character is assassinated.

    Where is the strong female leader that stood up against the evil of the burning legion? Made a stand too.. and quite the show, yet under the exact same atrocities and pattern, she just goes along...

    sigh, the lest they could have done is made her kick up a fuss and stand up to Sylvanas.. the Nightborne are a powerful and ancient people, but unlike Talanji, she just accepts everything Sylvanas tells her and does it. She'd probably have followed her till the end if Lor'themar had.

    "First Arcanist indeed" - you gotta love Queen Azshara's sarccy comment.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    Possibly, Kaldorei Dark Rangers and Shal'dorei Archers and Nighthunters, talking and meeting with each other?
    No, they just need to delete the whole Night elf dark ranger thing.. awful and bad idea.. it's exactly the lore breaking and bending progression that is just Nooo..

    and this is why wow lore frustrates me, you can do some really cool and interesting things, and then in the same breadth, do things like Dark nelf rangers.
    Valewalker Farodin: "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

    My long replies often repeat info to make sure: You get all the info I have, It is clear and complete, in case you didn't actually read the first one. New readers have context at hand and are reminded of the point

  5. #45
    Gnomes and Dwarves. They used to be close, but since Cata they have separated for really no good reason at all.

    Night Elves and Worgen. They both got genocided against by the Forsaken and Horde. Genn suddenly not giving a shit immediately after having his people be genocided a second time is incredibly questionable writing.

    Orcs, Trolls, and Tauren. They're "the boys" of the Horde. You can tell the nu-males at Blizz fucking despises that notion, yet it's what made the Horde so good. Now, they're neutered and almost not even present.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalium View Post
    All.

    /end thread

    Seriously, we need a rebuilding expansion. One that sees that Horde and Alliance dismantled... you are just an Adventurer again who can help any of the races. Help the Gnomes retake Gnomeregan? Sure. Help the Forsaken clear out the plague in Lordaeron? Why not? Help the Blood Elves rebuild their fractured city? Ok. Help the Night Elves relocate to Hyjal? Sign me up! Point is we should have grown beyond petty racial squabbles... besides there are more than enough outside things that want to kill us all to make us finally band together.


    game had this chance at least twice already

    after SOO
    and after Legion

    players should be able to join not Ally or Horde but become neutral or mercenary guikds

    helping races or factions

    for example help tauren but not horde and so on

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    SNIP
    How about we just let people talk about which races they would like to see working together?

    For me, I choose Blood Elves/Nightborne, Blood Elves/Forsaken & Void Elves/Night Elves.
    The second level of interest, would be Nightborne/Zandalari and Night Elves/Worgen.

    You don't need to get into a big waffle and temper tantrum, just because I don't particularly care for Night Elves working with Nightborne.

    And it might not be the most popular view, but I don't mind the Kaldorei Dark Rangers. It's clear Blizzard haven't forgotten about them since Delaryn is mentioned during the initial Ardenweald Campaign.

    This is a thread for people to share our opinions. I certainly didn't expect my opinion to be a whole page of discussion.
    Last edited by Tanaria; 2021-06-16 at 06:04 PM.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    And it might not be the most popular view, but I don't mind the Kaldorei Dark Rangers. It's clear Blizzard haven't forgotten about them since Delaryn is mentioned during the initial Ardenweald Campaign.
    And Maiev has Sira.
    So for me they are going home.

    She aside she is mentioned by her husband. She has no real connection with the Horde ... of course Calia doesn't have either, but well we'll see.

  9. #49
    I also want to see the Dark Iron Dwarves working with the Void Elves, as the two "dark" races of the Alliance with more ruthless and pragmatic methods and mastery of magic, especially dark ones. I could see them combining their magic users together to litterally unleash hell on their foes with a wave of void creatures and fire elementals.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Nightborne / Nighe Elf
    Tanaria, as my brother predicted, Blood elf/Nightborne relationship is boring - he predicted if the Nightborne went horde, rather than play to their kaldorei heritage to distinguish them from Belves, blizzard would just be absorbed into the blood elves and be nothing more than yes men types, similarly to how the high elves were with humans but worse given how they are elves it's more like different elf nations with similar values - and blizz would leave it at that. Blood elves would dominate Nightborne in terms of presence and just be support characters to Belves where occasionally what would have been a Belf NPc or Blef line would now be a Nightborne line, offering and saying nothing different bringing no new cultural value or perspective. He predicted correctly what is kaldorei in the Nightborne would just be ignored, and the Belves and Nightborne would hold hands boring and interchangeable..

    They could be more, but without the kaldorei elements of the Nightborne identity coming out strong, they are just too similar, and boring together. they offer nothing interest, no conflict or nuance, hey have same area of expertise, same general ideals/lifestyle.

    Amongst the night elves, it would be like focusing on Nightborne/Highborne interactions, that'd be ridiculously boring, because it's essentially the same group, same skill set, and they'd be tight.. far more interesting would be if Nightborne/Highborne with Long vigil mindset Darnassians got development - now you're talking, Nightborne would be both an alternative life for kaldorei and their can be both friction and growth between the two different cultures. they can explore much better the similarities between the two which a lot of people don't get.

    Wow's audience completely doesn't get how Highborne/Nightborne types are related to your Darnassian, much of the explanations and reveals in novels and lore text is totally unknown to them.. the cultural parallels are totally lost in the big arcane and nature difference which blizzard has highlighted and compounded further by placing the Nightborne with the horde thus giving the illusion that Nightborne couldn't be further away from Night elves, yet Nightborne are night elf culture - so how do the two relate?

    i ofc have written paragraphs on that.. most recently:
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53232923

    Predictions on a new night elf capital city and zone - Page 8 (mmo-champion.com)

    There is conflict with one group overcoming stigma which should be well on it's way out , dealing and coping with the revelations of Legion, the end of addiction, and how do we identify ourselves now.. we share this ancient legacy, and basically the arcane civilization of the Nightborne and Shen'dralar, along with that druidic culture and the priesthood of Elune were the 3 pillars that forged the pre-sundering empire Haydene, Azshara and Malfurion could have balanced that society with equal relevance..

    Now there is no Azshara - perhaps a Tyrande, Malfurion and Farondis could find a new balance.. but there are obstacles to overcome, there is the complex the Nightborne face concerning the night elves which is far more interesting than anything they have with the blood elves.. here you have their kin many people they probably know personally from before the sundering, currently living like that.. without the arcane comforts, a life Thalyssra and some Nightborne only had a few months to a year to experience, yet without such a power as the arcane, their kin have remained healthy, sane , strong and defeated the Legion a second time around, not to mention nature they looked down produced wonders like the world tree, , healing world ecology and being the salvation of the Nightborne - there is much awe and yet contempt

    there is also marrying of magics, arcane influencing druidism and druidism influencing arcane to explore.

    There is the role of the priesthood too, this is the order that holds the arcane power as sacred, and was the races first group to utilise it, much happened because of the legion's arrivan and ban, yet the cathedral is free, and Suramar's spiritual order returns.. what does that mean..how does that look.

    on both sides their are questions do the night elves continue a 3 separate segregated orders (check my diversity post - Night Elves the most diverse racial group? - Page 3 (mmo-champion.com) ) or do you show ares of integration annd segregation - e.g. cities have integration, outside is segregation or do they live in cities in distinct separate areas for each order...


    there is so much to explore. That will actually interest fans of the night elf race and could be a very interesting exploration for fans of warcraft in general.

    Meanwhile for blood elf and Nightborne - the biggest source of interest is - grumbling that the Nightborne do all the arcane works with blood elves relgated (they view ), to light duties. or objecting to alliance fans suggesting Suramar should come over to the alliance.

    Most are even cringed/creeped out by Lor'themar/Thalyssra romance, it has weird, it has no fire, and it's not loved. almost as if blood elves can't love people of their own race, they have to go to humans or Nightborne.

    So the Nightborne went horde anyway, but, if they show us more Night elf Nightborne interaction and development, Nightborne joining the horde could be even more interesting for a night elf /Nightborne relationship that isn't wholly based on war. What seemed to be a bad move, can actually add to everything I've just said.. adding higher stakes, more controversy but also more cooperation, more elven unity - something that people like my brother and @Rhlor use to long for. all this can happen with Nightborne still being on the horde as a race, and still being friends with the blood elves. Who told you that because you are friends with one group automatically means you can never be with your kin - who've done you no wrong, who you like and are curious about? In fact, that could add more nuance, blood elves not liking the Nightborne - night elf interaction and that causing some tension and conflict between blood elves and Nightborne - allowing their relationship to be more interesting.

    Nightborne and night elf relationship from every angle is actually potentially a very interesting route to take.. whether it leads to night elven Nightborne, Suramar changing, or nothing changing in terms of faction allegiance. This is one area faction alignment can actually take back seat and offer the wow audience a perspective on the player races cross faction that is not hate dominated or warfare conflict dominated.
    Farondis is an undead

    it was the alliance players including yourself who asked to exchange nightborne for high elves. and you celebrated the exchange and even said that nightborne were fine in the horde, because alliance players only wanted high elves.

    Now the trade is done and it is obvious that no one is going to want a playable race of their faction to lose their home. Unlike you, I supported the nightborne as a sub race of the night elves. but now the nightborne are part of the horde I have nightborne characters and it is obvious that I wants the home of my characters to continue being suramar because it is their city not of the alliance!
    in the official forums many people liked the short story of lorthemar and thalyssra's romance. there were even many fan arts and even cosplays

    the nightborne were important in BFA with thalyssra helping to rescue talanji and telemancy as a very valuable development. the recruitment of the maghar was thanks to the power of Oculeth among many other things.
    I would like a united faction of the elves, but many approaches that do not that is rather that the blood elves and nightborne seize territory to the alliance.

    I prefer that everyone has their own territories.

  11. #51
    Nightelf and Botani
    Gilneans and Saberon

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellspawn View Post
    Nightelf and Botani
    Gilneans and Saberon
    I could see the first happening if the Botanis are tamed either by Cenarius or by learning about the ways of traditionnal druidism about balance of nature and preservation of life. That could be actually very interesting and bring some much needed support for the Night Elves in Kalimdor.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    Farondis is an undead
    it was the alliance players including yourself who asked to exchange nightborne for high elves. and you celebrated the exchange and even said that nightborne were fine in the horde, because alliance players only wanted high elves.

    Now the trade is done and it is obvious that no one is going to want a playable race of their faction to lose their home. Unlike you, I supported the nightborne as a sub race of the night elves. but now the nightborne are part of the horde I have nightborne characters and it is obvious that I wants the home of my characters to continue being suramar because it is their city not of the alliance!
    in the official forums many people liked the short story of lorthemar and thalyssra's romance. there were even many fan arts and even cosplays
    the nightborne were important in BFA with thalyssra helping to rescue talanji and telemancy as a very valuable development. the recruitment of the maghar was thanks to the power of Oculeth among many other things.
    I would like a united faction of the elves, but many approaches that do not that is rather that the blood elves and nightborne seize territory to the alliance.

    I prefer that everyone has their own territories.
    I just remember you and mace arguing for elven cooperation, and I remember joining you after opposing it, then he started opposing.. but what has been consistent is that there are many options to make elves more interesting.

    This is what this topic is about.. cooperation between races, most of my list is about elven cooperation.

    In these type of posts you are detailing what you'd like to see, if like me you care to go into the detail of how it may happen, don't be surprised if groups like Farondis and others are brought into play. It would actually be more interesting if they are , rather than get abandoned. I think they have much to contribute and Farondis was an incredible character in Legion, my favourite after they ruined Thalyssra in BFA.

    Also you keep hearken on to the post we made about whether you would be okay if horde got Nightborne in order to have high elves. Firstly, it was not a post asking for high elves in place of Nightborne, it was simply saying it would be acceptable. It wasn't saying this was a good idea, or this is what I wanted the most. I believe, both Nightborne and High elves should be on the alliance, and the horde shouldn't have them. Especially seeing what blood elf existence on the horde has done to both factions. I am resolute in this. But sometimes you make statements on what compromise you'd be okay.. being okay with a compromise is very far from it being the desired intention.

    so please stop going around saying I asked for high elves instead of Nightborne, I only admitted I'd be okay to get high elves in place of Nightborne. I didn't say I was fine with Suramar going horde, and the alliance didn't get high elves, it got void elves. While i was cool with void elves and i found them cool, they are not what I offered as an acceptable compromise.

    So just stop saying that.

    And I would remind you I'm a fan of the Night elves, not the alliance or the horde, I actually play both, and i don't hate the horde. Most of my discussions and conversations are about Night elves, not the alliance. My Nightborne/night elf cooperation is about the Night elven as a race, it's not about the alliance.

    now i have only recently in the high elf topic a few months ago, shared my conclusions about the state of the factions. My conviction that the blood elves need to become high elves and Nightborne in Suramar become night elves so the alliance gets both IS NOT because i hate the horde or hate horde elves or anything like that. This move i think is ultimately better for both the game, the two factions and the night elves. But I have already and always stated by preferred option is fo the night elves to come out of the factions. Whether to be a playable third faction..or an NPC faction with a small group loyal to the playable alliance.. which would allow the group to continue to be playable were options I have stated many times and still stand by.



    I don't say blizzard is horde biased because I am an alliance fan. I am not, I am saying they are because they are, as a neutral fan -but because hordies don't like my conclusions which often tend to favour making an alliance race much better.. you keep classing me as an alliance fan boy.

    whatever, I don't care. My words speak for themselves. If they can't be bothered to read them, don't expect me to be sympathetic or yield to their retorts. I don't care how stubborn they think i am or crazy..or whatever opinion, when you read the material and show due courtesy, I will return the favour.. when you care about what i feel, I will care more about what you feel. When I listen to what I write, I will listen to what you write. Who am I kidding, i pay attention to what you write always. Because I'm not an idiot that stupidly responds to what a person writes without actually reading it. But I am stupid enough to keep the dialogue up with them fully well knowing they haven't listened.

    Ah what am I to do.. I'm so soft hearted.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Terrorthatflapsinthenight View Post
    I could see the first happening if the Botanis are tamed either by Cenarius or by learning about the ways of traditionnal druidism about balance of nature and preservation of life. That could be actually very interesting and bring some much needed support for the Night Elves in Kalimdor.
    It could also go the other way.. full on war.. This is corrupted or evil nature.. and Cenarius goes tow ar to tame them. Who says all nature is harmnious? When one ecology meets with an alien one.. it's FIGHT !

    and Worgen could easily be the enemy of Sarberon.

    How I would use the Botanni

    I would instead use the botanni as one of the reasons why the Orcs basically have a thing against the night elves.. they don't understand the elven love of nature.. because nature is quite an enemy.. elves would rather grow forests, heal them talk and sing to plants and trees and animals, Orcs because of their Draeneor in built fear/hatred of the botanni's species line, would much rather burn, cut, and harvest forestry, and ofc they love to hunt game, where it becomes more than just taking what you need. Use that to explain a deeper source of friction between elves and orcs other than.. "you keep invading Ashenvale". Also orcs can be distrustful and superstitious of magic, and elves have lots of it. not once is it recorded orcs other than the warlocks themselves were happy with the demonic magics being wielded, and though quite capable of studying arcane arts, it's a very good reason why such practices are not prolific.

    A more Detailed Theory on Warcraft Magic
    But what about shamanism/ well shamanistic magic is mostly carried out by elementals which are idol like points of worship and great reverence. They view that power as power they need - water to drink and water their crops, winds to cool their land and blow away the fires.. fire to cook their meals and warm their flesh etc.. but the most important fact is that in shamanism, the orc isn't doing magic, it's the elemental, most shaman basically have the elemental cast all the spells, and the more talented ones are having the elemental lend or channel it's power through the shaman.. the shaman isn't mastering the building blocks of magic through study and discernment to a scientific like degree which is what elves do. No their skill is in bargaining and persuading the elementals to help, so it's not the same thing as what a warlock does even though it's closer to warlocks (seeing that the earlier part of a warlock s magic comes form the demon before he masters greater strengths of it - shackling a demon is not too dissimilar from an elemental - i guess it's why orc shaman could quite take to warlocks. However a mage and druid is really you mastering the primal force yourself - light and void are variations where you access power through your emotions and virtue (the strong your purity and conviction the stronger the light, the darker your rage and passion, the stronger the void - in priests - void elves access the power through intellect I would imagine - it's not like they flesh this thing out.. but it's an acceptable system.
    Valewalker Farodin: "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

    My long replies often repeat info to make sure: You get all the info I have, It is clear and complete, in case you didn't actually read the first one. New readers have context at hand and are reminded of the point

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by geco View Post
    And Maiev has Sira.
    So for me they are going home.

    She aside she is mentioned by her husband. She has no real connection with the Horde ... of course Calia doesn't have either, but well we'll see.
    I really want to see Delaryn's story continue. I don't want her to become the next leader of the Forsaken, I don't think she's up to the task...there's something about her where I just don't get the "Forsaken leader" vibe, but I believe her story does carry more weight and maybe...Ferryn can seek out the Kyrians and they travel to Tirisfal to meet with Delaryn?

    Also - it would open up Dark Ranger features for both Night Elves and Blood Elves.

    EDIT:
    Maybe we also need to see the Dark Rangers as a whole, getting some moments together...all those that remained with the Horde. Kaldorei and Quel/Sin'dorei Dark Rangers could all feel a sense of loss and unsure on where to go...maybe Velonara and Delaryn go and seek out the Kaldorei and Sin'dorei to unify the Dark Rangers with their respective people's and build bridges once again.
    Last edited by Tanaria; 2021-06-16 at 07:08 PM.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    How about we just let people talk about which races they would like to see working together?
    .
    That's exactly what I'm doing.. are you not the one discussing with me? I'm explaining my various race cooperation, you are responding to me they are boring and you don't like them.. I mean what do you expect me to say?

    Oh and Tanaria, read what i say, stop faffing around and snip quoting. I'm doing this for your benefit. At least have the decency to read something you are going to quote.
    Valewalker Farodin: "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

    My long replies often repeat info to make sure: You get all the info I have, It is clear and complete, in case you didn't actually read the first one. New readers have context at hand and are reminded of the point

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    That's exactly what I'm doing.. are you not the one discussing with me? I'm explaining my various race cooperation, you are responding to me they are boring and you don't like them.. I mean what do you expect me to say?

    Oh and Tanaria, read what i say, stop faffing around and snip quoting. I'm doing this for your benefit. At least have the decency to read something you are going to quote.
    Mate - you literally told me that my view on Blood Elves and Nightborne is boring and proceeded to waffle on about it.

    As I say, Alanar and I were talking about the thread at hand. We weren't actually talking about Night Elves until you waded in. Did it cross your mind that maybe...maybe we don't care about Night Elves in that conversation..?

    We were discussing Sin'dorei, Shal'dorei, Dark Rangers, San'layn and Forsaken...I don't see "Night Elves" in that roster..?

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    I just remember you and mace arguing for elven cooperation, and I remember joining you after opposing it, then he started opposing.. but what has been consistent is that there are many options to make elves more interesting.

    This is what this topic is about.. cooperation between races, most of my list is about elven cooperation.

    In these type of posts you are detailing what you'd like to see, if like me you care to go into the detail of how it may happen, don't be surprised if groups like Farondis and others are brought into play. It would actually be more interesting if they are , rather than get abandoned. I think they have much to contribute and Farondis was an incredible character in Legion, my favourite after they ruined Thalyssra in BFA.

    Also you keep hearken on to the post we made about whether you would be okay if horde got Nightborne in order to have high elves. Firstly, it was not a post asking for high elves in place of Nightborne, it was simply saying it would be acceptable. It wasn't saying this was a good idea, or this is what I wanted the most. I believe, both Nightborne and High elves should be on the alliance, and the horde shouldn't have them. Especially seeing what blood elf existence on the horde has done to both factions. I am resolute in this. But sometimes you make statements on what compromise you'd be okay.. being okay with a compromise is very far from it being the desired intention.

    so please stop going around saying I asked for high elves instead of Nightborne, I only admitted I'd be okay to get high elves in place of Nightborne. I didn't say I was fine with Suramar going horde, and the alliance didn't get high elves, it got void elves. While i was cool with void elves and i found them cool, they are not what I offered as an acceptable compromise.

    So just stop saying that.

    And I would remind you I'm a fan of the Night elves, not the alliance or the horde, I actually play both, and i don't hate the horde. Most of my discussions and conversations are about Night elves, not the alliance. My Nightborne/night elf cooperation is about the Night elven as a race, it's not about the alliance.

    now i have only recently in the high elf topic a few months ago, shared my conclusions about the state of the factions. My conviction that the blood elves need to become high elves and Nightborne in Suramar become night elves so the alliance gets both IS NOT because i hate the horde or hate horde elves or anything like that. This move i think is ultimately better for both the game, the two factions and the night elves. But I have already and always stated by preferred option is fo the night elves to come out of the factions. Whether to be a playable third faction..or an NPC faction with a small group loyal to the playable alliance.. which would allow the group to continue to be playable were options I have stated many times and still stand by.



    I don't say blizzard is horde biased because I am an alliance fan. I am not, I am saying they are because they are, as a neutral fan -but because hordies don't like my conclusions which often tend to favour making an alliance race much better.. you keep classing me as an alliance fan boy.

    whatever, I don't care. My words speak for themselves. If they can't be bothered to read them, don't expect me to be sympathetic or yield to their retorts. I don't care how stubborn they think i am or crazy..or whatever opinion, when you read the material and show due courtesy, I will return the favour.. when you care about what i feel, I will care more about what you feel. When I listen to what I write, I will listen to what you write. Who am I kidding, i pay attention to what you write always. Because I'm not an idiot that stupidly responds to what a person writes without actually reading it. But I am stupid enough to keep the dialogue up with them fully well knowing they haven't listened.

    Ah what am I to do.. I'm so soft hearted.

    - - - Updated - - -


    It could also go the other way.. full on war.. This is corrupted or evil nature.. and Cenarius goes tow ar to tame them. Who says all nature is harmnious? When one ecology meets with an alien one.. it's FIGHT !

    and Worgen could easily be the enemy of Sarberon.

    How I would use the Botanni

    I would instead use the botanni as one of the reasons why the Orcs basically have a thing against the night elves.. they don't understand the elven love of nature.. because nature is quite an enemy.. elves would rather grow forests, heal them talk and sing to plants and trees and animals, Orcs because of their Draeneor in built fear/hatred of the botanni's species line, would much rather burn, cut, and harvest forestry, and ofc they love to hunt game, where it becomes more than just taking what you need. Use that to explain a deeper source of friction between elves and orcs other than.. "you keep invading Ashenvale". Also orcs can be distrustful and superstitious of magic, and elves have lots of it. not once is it recorded orcs other than the warlocks themselves were happy with the demonic magics being wielded, and though quite capable of studying arcane arts, it's a very good reason why such practices are not prolific.

    A more Detailed Theory on Warcraft Magic
    But what about shamanism/ well shamanistic magic is mostly carried out by elementals which are idol like points of worship and great reverence. They view that power as power they need - water to drink and water their crops, winds to cool their land and blow away the fires.. fire to cook their meals and warm their flesh etc.. but the most important fact is that in shamanism, the orc isn't doing magic, it's the elemental, most shaman basically have the elemental cast all the spells, and the more talented ones are having the elemental lend or channel it's power through the shaman.. the shaman isn't mastering the building blocks of magic through study and discernment to a scientific like degree which is what elves do. No their skill is in bargaining and persuading the elementals to help, so it's not the same thing as what a warlock does even though it's closer to warlocks (seeing that the earlier part of a warlock s magic comes form the demon before he masters greater strengths of it - shackling a demon is not too dissimilar from an elemental - i guess it's why orc shaman could quite take to warlocks. However a mage and druid is really you mastering the primal force yourself - light and void are variations where you access power through your emotions and virtue (the strong your purity and conviction the stronger the light, the darker your rage and passion, the stronger the void - in priests - void elves access the power through intellect I would imagine - it's not like they flesh this thing out.. but it's an acceptable system.
    all your proposals are from nightborne and blood elves territories passing into the hands of the alliance.

    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Can it be true? really true? it's the first tangible piece of evidence, i dare not believe it.. if so YES , FANTASTIC YES ... I have LONGED FOR THIS, campaigned for this, switched sides for this.
    http://warcraft.blizzplanet.com/blog...aces-datamined

    Move over night elves (don't really care that much about you any more, you were a placeholder) and welcome the high elves coming home. Although they have a twist to them now that is known as void elves, they have been linked with the alliance. And nightborne with the horde (a fair trade if you ask me) hordies can get some night elf lore they can attach to, and finally we can have access to high elves.

    To be honest i never really liked night elves that much, but we had no choice in vanilla as they wer the only elves available, and since high elves never materialised, (blood elves felt wrong) I kinda adopted them. Remember they were the first elves to show up in the warcraft story, the whole point of night elves is to be a background for the high elves. Blood elves was just a flavor who's horde placement was only there to fix the balance problems back there. This is the true homecoming of the elves.

    The lengths i have gone through for this. EVERY CHARACTER is going to race change to high (void) elf. Every single one.

    YES YES YES YES YES YES .. . what lovely news to come home to.. it surely is far too late to change, anyway, so lets hear it. How excited are you about this?

    very good new blizzard, very good news.
    You totally agree that the horde has a nightborne and that it was good that we have night elf tradition in the horde

    You and the alliance players preferred high elves over night elves. and that's why they supported the exchange.

    it happened be honest
    Last edited by Rhlor; 2021-06-16 at 07:15 PM.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by geco View Post
    I understand your point and if it was interesting to see the past. Although back that makes Lothamer more interesting to be there because he is the one who is learning the past of the race from him.

    And Jaina ruins everything.
    .
    And weird they don't focus on him right? Sigh, this game really needs an animated series for this sort of thing.

    Don't know why they keep insisting on books, their playerbase hates to read. their lore would have engaged far more people and reached a much larger audience ofr the game if they had serialised in an animation of live action series, or movied the story a lot sooner.

    It's equally weird Jaina and not Farondis or Mordant Evenshade and Tyrande/Malfuion are there for the alliance too. Teh use of Jaina everywhere, even in places night elves should be instead reminds me of the use of Khadgar in legion.. shoulda been a night elf meeting the Demon hunters out of Warden Vault, should have een a night elf introducing the class leader to Azsuna, and a night elf decoding the Suramar message - but they had to use Khadgar multiple times. Shoulda used mordant Evenshade or one or both of the Starwhisper twins we meet in Azsuna.
    Valewalker Farodin: "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

    My long replies often repeat info to make sure: You get all the info I have, It is clear and complete, in case you didn't actually read the first one. New readers have context at hand and are reminded of the point

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    all your proposals are from nightborne and blood elves territories passing into the hands of the alliance.
    Which can happen; however many years after Quel'Thalas is updated for Horde Blood Elf players, since it's Blood Elf fans that have constantly talked about an updated Quel'Thalas.

    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    And weird they don't focus on him right? Sigh, this game really needs an animated series for this sort of thing.

    Don't know why they keep insisting on books, their playerbase hates to read. their lore would have engaged far more people and reached a much larger audience ofr the game if they had serialised in an animation of live action series, or movied the story a lot sooner.

    It's equally weird Jaina and not Farondis or Mordant Evenshade and Tyrande/Malfuion are there for the alliance too. Teh use of Jaina everywhere, even in places night elves should be instead reminds me of the use of Khadgar in legion.. shoulda been a night elf meeting the Demon hunters out of Warden Vault, should have een a night elf introducing the class leader to Azsuna, and a night elf decoding the Suramar message - but they had to use Khadgar multiple times. Shoulda used mordant Evenshade or one or both of the Starwhisper twins we meet in Azsuna.
    Rightly or wrongly, the reason why Khadgar and Jaina were used is because they were a "Harbinger" and "Warbringer" respectively.

    Who is Mordent Evenshade compared to Jaina Proudmoore? Also, it's very clear what the intentions for the Warbringers would be. They wanted each one to meet at some point.

    8.0 - Jaina and Sylvanas
    8.2 - Jaina and Azshara
    8.3 - Azshara and Sylvanas

    Now, I don't agree with that mindset, but that's the route they chose.

    And maybe they should have used a Night Elf to meet those who picked a Night Elf Demon Hunter. I'm not sure who that could be, as many Night Elves distanced themselves from that path. For Blood Elf Demon Hunters, no doubt - Grand Magister Rommath should have been used as he was once part of the Illidari.
    Last edited by Tanaria; 2021-06-16 at 07:17 PM.

  20. #60
    Humans and Orcs should be BFFs

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