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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    all your proposals are from nightborne and blood elves territories passing into the hands of the alliance.
    If you read everything I wrote even just to you, there is no way you would reach that conclusion. And you would also fully understand why I believe that's the best way forward.

    Stop skipping what I write. You are not going to get what I say if you just read a few lines then quote the whole thing with a 1-2 liner response, then come later to the first point I made in the topic without reading the rest to get the context and the whole of what I'm saying.

    This is why you think things about me that are way off, or just incomplete.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    Which can happen; however many years after Quel'Thalas is updated for Horde Blood Elf players, since it's Blood Elf fans that have constantly talked about an updated Quel'Thalas.
    It would be great to see an updated quelthalas

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    I just remember you and mace arguing for elven cooperation, and I remember joining you after opposing it, then he started opposing.. but what has been consistent is that there are many options to make elves more interesting.

    This is what this topic is about.. cooperation between races, most of my list is about elven cooperation.

    In these type of posts you are detailing what you'd like to see, if like me you care to go into the detail of how it may happen, don't be surprised if groups like Farondis and others are brought into play. It would actually be more interesting if they are , rather than get abandoned. I think they have much to contribute and Farondis was an incredible character in Legion, my favourite after they ruined Thalyssra in BFA.

    Also you keep hearken on to the post we made about whether you would be okay if horde got Nightborne in order to have high elves. Firstly, it was not a post asking for high elves in place of Nightborne, it was simply saying it would be acceptable. It wasn't saying this was a good idea, or this is what I wanted the most. I believe, both Nightborne and High elves should be on the alliance, and the horde shouldn't have them. Especially seeing what blood elf existence on the horde has done to both factions. I am resolute in this. But sometimes you make statements on what compromise you'd be okay.. being okay with a compromise is very far from it being the desired intention.

    so please stop going around saying I asked for high elves instead of Nightborne, I only admitted I'd be okay to get high elves in place of Nightborne. I didn't say I was fine with Suramar going horde, and the alliance didn't get high elves, it got void elves. While i was cool with void elves and i found them cool, they are not what I offered as an acceptable compromise.

    So just stop saying that.







    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Can it be true? really true? it's the first tangible piece of evidence, i dare not believe it.. if so YES , FANTASTIC YES ... I have LONGED FOR THIS, campaigned for this, switched sides for this.
    http://warcraft.blizzplanet.com/blog...aces-datamined

    Move over night elves (don't really care that much about you any more, you were a placeholder) and welcome the high elves coming home. Although they have a twist to them now that is known as void elves, they have been linked with the alliance. And nightborne with the horde (a fair trade if you ask me) hordies can get some night elf lore they can attach to, and finally we can have access to high elves.

    To be honest i never really liked night elves that much, but we had no choice in vanilla as they wer the only elves available, and since high elves never materialised, (blood elves felt wrong) I kinda adopted them. Remember they were the first elves to show up in the warcraft story, the whole point of night elves is to be a background for the high elves. Blood elves was just a flavor who's horde placement was only there to fix the balance problems back there. This is the true homecoming of the elves.

    The lengths i have gone through for this. EVERY CHARACTER is going to race change to high (void) elf. Every single one.

    YES YES YES YES YES YES .. . what lovely news to come home to.. it surely is far too late to change, anyway, so lets hear it. How excited are you about this?

    very good new blizzard, very good news.
    You totally agree that the horde has a nightborne and that it was good that we have night elf tradition in the horde

    You and the alliance players preferred high elves over night elves. and that's why they supported the exchange.

    it happened be honest

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    It would be great to see an updated quelthalas
    I know.
    I'd love to see some Blood Elf (obviously), Nightborne and Forsaken (Dark Ranger), stuff happening.

    Not sure what the story would be though. I mean, the current TBC story is to end the Scourge threat, deal with the Night Elves and sort out the Amani.

    A revamped Quel'Thalas could be a Void-related story, along with a Scourge presence (Lich commander, perhaps?) and returned Amani issue. Remember, the Amani at Atal'Dazar were hostile to all Horde players.

  4. #64
    The Botani becoming allies to the Night Elves could lead the Night Elves to get new insidious and offensive druidic techniques such as the use of poisonned or mind control spores à la Poison Ivy.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    Which can happen; however many years after Quel'Thalas is updated for Horde Blood Elf players, since it's Blood Elf fans that have constantly talked about an updated Quel'Thalas.






    Rightly or wrongly, the reason why Khadgar and Jaina were used is because they were a "Harbinger" and "Warbringer" respectively.


    Who is Mordent Evenshade compared to Jaina Proudmoore? Also, it's very clear what the intentions for the Warbringers would be. They wanted each one to meet at some point.


    8.0 - Jaina and Sylvanas
    8.2 - Jaina and Azshara
    8.3 - Azshara and Sylvanas


    Now, I don't agree with that mindset, but that's the route they chose.


    And maybe they should have used a Night Elf to meet those who picked a Night Elf Demon Hunter. I'm not sure who that could be, as many Night Elves distanced themselves from that path. For Blood Elf Demon Hunters, no doubt - Grand Magister Rommath should have been used as he was once part of the Illidari.

    No. the reason they are used, is because they are considered "well known figures".. "the fans like" or "the focus of the story".. so they use them for everything


    You honestly want to tell me, that Jaina who's just come out of the Battle for Dazar'alor beaten is able to be fully fit and empowered to travel tot he Night elf capital and birthing place and face off against the former Queen, and she is better candidate than Tyrande, Malfurion, Farondis (who all have detailed personal stories against her) or any night elf for that matter.. but because "Jaina" is a harbinger she is used.


    Weird how Mekkatorque is in a deep coma after the fight but Jaina is totally available while an empowered Tyrande who doesn't show up for the actual warfront battle, or a Malfurion who definitely has motive to stop her isn't in in Zin Azsahri... bah @Hellspawn did an excellent post on how he would rewrite the Night warriors tory his path at least gives a reason for why Tyrande isn't in Nazjatar... this is kaldorei stuff, there are kaldorei characters waiting for more exposition, value and building.. Jaina and Khadgar already had many roles both during those expansions and the patches that came after..


    it's typical blizzard overkill, they do this all the time, they over use their favourites.. then Danuser comes out and says.. we did use Tyrande for Naz'jatar because we'd already used her in 8.1 - you mean that cameo mini quest sequence?


    No wonder the night warrior story, is shoddy and weak.. if Night elf fans like myself (former currently) hadn't been appalled at the treatment and actually made some noise for a change, we'd be sitting with ignored lore as they try to fix how you hordies feel hurt about Sylvanas' cruel choices.. our race we're fans of, the biggest victims, left forgotten to show Anduin and his humans gain more stuff and how complex the horde is in it's constant evolution.


    Pfft, who you kididng?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Askyl View Post
    Humans and Orcs should be BFFs
    Let peace and love rein!

    Friendship is the best !

    I 100% agree

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    I really want to see Delaryn's story continue. I don't want her to become the next leader of the Forsaken, I don't think she's up to the task...there's something about her where I just don't get the "Forsaken leader" vibe, but I believe her story does carry more weight and maybe...Ferryn can seek out the Kyrians and they travel to Tirisfal to meet with Delaryn?

    Also - it would open up Dark Ranger features for both Night Elves and Blood Elves.

    EDIT:
    Maybe we also need to see the Dark Rangers as a whole, getting some moments together...all those that remained with the Horde. Kaldorei and Quel/Sin'dorei Dark Rangers could all feel a sense of loss and unsure on where to go...maybe Velonara and Delaryn go and seek out the Kaldorei and Sin'dorei to unify the Dark Rangers with their respective people's and build bridges once again.
    NOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
    There is something that blizzard does not understand and that is that the base of the renegedes is "Mine rejected me" to Calia and Dalarin theirs welcomed them with open arms. That is why they do not serve as renegade leaders.

    I mean imagine.
    Renegade: I want to go back to my family but they see me as a monster.
    Dalarin: Stab my family no matter how much they asked me to return.

    I am interested in your story. But she is not a Forsaken. She is a Kaldorei.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    I prefer that everyone has their own territories.
    Elune bless you and Brosandi take care of your soul.


    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    And weird they don't focus on him right? Sigh, this game really needs an animated series for this sort of thing.

    Don't know why they keep insisting on books, their playerbase hates to read. their lore would have engaged far more people and reached a much larger audience ofr the game if they had serialised in an animation of live action series, or movied the story a lot sooner.

    It's equally weird Jaina and not Farondis or Mordant Evenshade and Tyrande/Malfuion are there for the alliance too. Teh use of Jaina everywhere, even in places night elves should be instead reminds me of the use of Khadgar in legion.. shoulda been a night elf meeting the Demon hunters out of Warden Vault, should have een a night elf introducing the class leader to Azsuna, and a night elf decoding the Suramar message - but they had to use Khadgar multiple times. Shoulda used mordant Evenshade or one or both of the Starwhisper twins we meet in Azsuna.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    Which can happen; however many years after Quel'Thalas is updated for Horde Blood Elf players, since it's Blood Elf fans that have constantly talked about an updated Quel'Thalas.



    Rightly or wrongly, the reason why Khadgar and Jaina were used is because they were a "Harbinger" and "Warbringer" respectively.

    Who is Mordent Evenshade compared to Jaina Proudmoore? Also, it's very clear what the intentions for the Warbringers would be. They wanted each one to meet at some point.

    8.0 - Jaina and Sylvanas
    8.2 - Jaina and Azshara
    8.3 - Azshara and Sylvanas

    Now, I don't agree with that mindset, but that's the route they chose.

    And maybe they should have used a Night Elf to meet those who picked a Night Elf Demon Hunter. I'm not sure who that could be, as many Night Elves distanced themselves from that path. For Blood Elf Demon Hunters, no doubt - Grand Magister Rommath should have been used as he was once part of the Illidari.

    The problem is that Blizzard throws a Kaldorei Plot on the table and then happens to use a human. They put the stick on the wheel.

    Jaina shouldn't be Warbinger. She has nothing from Warbinger. She had to be Tyrande. And if she was Jaina, why are we going to her city? She had to be Talanji of the Horde.
    and that Kadgar translates something .. seriously is silly. You have Maiev and Illidian to read it to you. Ask them.
    In addition to Kadgar acting as an intermediary in the meeting of Elves, he is a major stupid.

    They are things that make the action without weight.

    Like the DH the livera Maiev. Only she doesn't have time to be sure.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    SNIP
    All of that combined, Jaina (rightly or wrongly) was a Warbringer, as was Azshara. Tyrande was not and in comparison to Jaina...Mordent who? I'm not in agreement with Blizzard here, but this is how it looks. All the Warbringers meet at some point during the expansion, regardless of whether it works or makes the most sense.

    And it's not just the Night Elves who suffered with over-exposure of Khadgar in Legion. I agree, a Night Elf should have met with the players who made a Night Elf Demon Hunter - just like Grand Magister Rommath, being once part of the Illidari, should have met the Blood Elf Demon Hunter players.

    Quote Originally Posted by geco View Post
    SNIP into 1
    I know and the one part of Suramar that I didn't like was Khadgar giving the orders on behalf of Thalyssra. (Remember, when he tells the Sin'dorei and Shal'dorei to take the promenade and then the Kaldorei to ride ahead, these are the orders that Thalyssra drafted.)

    Delaryn is Kaldorei as well, but we'll have to wait and see.

    Her story was made to mirror Sylvanas' in terms of being a Ranger trying to defend her home against stacked odds, but where the characters in question turn is where we see Delaryn actively turn on the Night Elves. Sylvanas (before the Jailor), never truly hated the Sin'dorei and did want to help...in her own way, I suppose.
    Last edited by Tanaria; 2021-06-16 at 07:41 PM.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by geco View Post

    The problem is that Blizzard throws a Kaldorei Plot on the table and then happens to use a human. They put the stick on the wheel.

    Jaina shouldn't be Warbinger. She has nothing from Warbinger. She had to be Tyrande. And if she was Jaina, why are we going to her city? She had to be Talanji of the Horde.
    and that Kadgar translates something .. seriously is silly. You have Maiev and Illidian to read it to you. Ask them.
    In addition to Kadgar acting as an intermediary in the meeting of Elves, he is a major stupid.

    They are things that make the action without weight.

    Like the DH the livera Maiev. Only she doesn't have time to be sure.
    Problem is there isn't real passion for the kaldorei.. they didn't develop them after classic, - this was because they were too busy developing the horde. They got well into the horde and the better and better things they were doing for them.. starting with the Belves.

    So they grew to love the horde. you focus more on it, you love it more. People like Kosak and then Danuser were already fans to begin with.

    you see the more you work on something the more you'd like it. you're pouring your talent and love into it, to make it good. The less time you spend with the other group the less you care.

    Night elves were a very popular race that were just left dead in the water.. so we know they weren't abandoned for their lack popularity or fan interest (likely for the opposite as it was one of the sources of the faction number imbalance).. they've had sloppy and patchy treatment in what could have been really well done.

    when the big effort for legion came, and they did night elf stuff, especially their city so well, what did they do with it? sent it to the horde, and then burn the kaldorei down and do nothing till the fans complained, then gave a half arsed tale.

    However the fan noise has forced them to write more and more, the more they write, the more they'd love them, and the more they'd start doing better with them..


    Better? Who am I kidding, if the horde 's development is what I have to go by for blizzard doing better for it's favourites.. haha. hah.. better.. it will be more Nelf stuff for sure, but better? hah.. hah.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    I know.
    I'd love to see some Blood Elf (obviously), Nightborne and Forsaken (Dark Ranger), stuff happening.

    Not sure what the story would be though. I mean, the current TBC story is to end the Scourge threat, deal with the Night Elves and sort out the Amani.

    A revamped Quel'Thalas could be a Void-related story, along with a Scourge presence (Lich commander, perhaps?) and returned Amani issue. Remember, the Amani at Atal'Dazar were hostile to all Horde players.
    dark ranger are undead who belong to the forsaken society, they are not part of the quelthalas kingdom society

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    dark ranger are undead who belong to the forsaken society, they are not part of the quelthalas kingdom society
    But, Dark Ranger Velonara considers herself forsaken and sin'dorei and we must not forget of the bond between the two in the initial stages of the blood elves joining the Horde.

    It's that aspect I think, should be rekindled and the best candidate for that role would be Velonara.

    Again - I'm not saying the Shal'dorei shouldn't have a small role in the revamped Quel'Thalas - they absolutely should, but we've got to remember that the Blood Elves' alignment with the Horde, started with the Forsaken. It's something I'd like to see, in regards to the Farstriders and Dark Rangers. Never seen the two fight shoulder to shoulder before, despite being kin.
    Last edited by Tanaria; 2021-06-16 at 07:43 PM.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    But, Dark Ranger Velonara considers herself forsaken and sin'dorei and we must not forget of the bond between the two in the initial stages of the blood elves joining the Horde.

    It's that aspect I think, should be rekindled and the best candidate for that role would be Velonara.
    the forsaken are in a very delicate moment their home in lordaeron with calia and the dark ranger will follow her.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    All of that combined, Jaina (rightly or wrongly) was a Warbringer, as was Azshara. Tyrande was not and in comparison to Jaina...Mordent who?

    And it's not just the Night Elves who suffered with over-exposure of Khadgar in Legion. I agree, a Night Elf should have met with the players who made a Night Elf Demon Hunter - just like Grand Magister Rommath, being once part of the Illidari, should have met the Blood Elf Demon Hunter players.
    Mordent who you say? Exactly.. this is
    why they needed to put those characters in.

    But they make decisions like.. ah.. character doesn't have enough traction, it wont sell enough. we'll just use Khadgar again, or Jaina again


    don't you see it's always the same character over and over again..all the time? hardly room for new ones, and the rare times they actually do a new one that's good.. like Farondis and Thalyssra - hey totally ignore one, and rubbish the other.. Thalyssra's love life was more important than standing up for her values against the banshee - at least to blizzard.


    So it's back to Jaina, Genn, Khadgar, Thrall, over and over again. You can tell the prime favourites by how much they use them and for how long.

    Sylvanas, Jaina, Khdagar, Thrall were top tier.

    They have used Malfurion, Tyrande and Illidan, but oh boy, short stints, and quickly out. but it's better than other character like Mordant, Jarod, - why bring Maiev back? she fucked up big time, they wrote, they should have used Sira for CotEN, but no, Maiev -- it was an odd choice.. because everyone knows Maiev. only to now have to use Sira later, because she is a disposable character they can turn into a dark ranger.


    sigh.

    This is not a series project, it's a world building game project, sometimes I'm like.. dudes, if you can't use your characters across media like books, games and comics well and effectively.. what you doing? How often do you get new and engaging characters? what happened to Talnaji after the first 1 or 2 patches of BFA? Where is Farondis? and those were some of the more detailed characters introduced - nope.. let's have Jaina and Genn for night elf stuff , I'm surprised they didn't throw them in for Mechagon... they were at least more conscientious about the gnomes.. but then probably because it wasn't the main story arc. what about the Dark irons?

    Ooh. you actually agreed with me on something..

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    the forsaken are in a very delicate moment their home in lordaeron with calia and the dark ranger will follow her.
    The Forsaken Humans, but the Dark Ranger Forsaken Elves (majority are of Thalassian heritage) also need some lore and in my view, Blizzard would be foolish to not expand on a Farstrider/Dark Ranger union...perhaps dealing with the Amani Trolls. Could feel like "old times" for both forces.

    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    SNIP
    That is the problem with the Alliance writing in general. It's what I've been saying for months. Overuse of Humans is why the Alliance story suffers.

    Now Thalyssra was used heavily in Zin-Azshari. In the grand scheme, she was a combination of the Alliance's use of Jaina and Shandris, combined.
    Last edited by Tanaria; 2021-06-16 at 07:52 PM.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    The Forsaken Humans, but the Dark Ranger Forsaken Elves (majority are of Thalassian heritage) also need some lore and in my view, Blizzard would be foolish to not expand on a Farstrider/Dark Ranger union...perhaps dealing with the Amani Trolls. Could feel like "old times" for both forces.



    That is the problem with the Alliance writing in general. It's what I've been saying for months. Overuse of Humans is why the Alliance story suffers.

    Now Thalyssra was used heavily in Zin-Azshari. In the grand scheme, she was a combination of the Alliance's use of Jaina and Shandris, combined.
    dark ranger follow calia

  15. #75
    Old God Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DemonHunter18 View Post
    Elves and Orcs @Syegfryed
    I see wut u did dere

    @Terrorthatflapsinthenight
    • Humans and Dwarves.
    • Orcs and DS Trolls.
    • Tauren and nelfs.
    • Forsaken and belfs. If that's too old fashioned (I love that bit of story in BC), then belfs + Nightborne is also a good pairing.
    • Goblins and Gnomes, in a sort of not-so-friendly rivalry.
    • Worgen and nelfs (we saw that to an extent in BfA).
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    dark ranger follow calia
    Right...and? I don't see how this doesn't involve the Thalassian Dark Rangers having some lore moments alongside the Farstriders?

    Aren't Calia and Lor'themar also on decent terms as well?

    I mean, again - this is all a person wish list of what we would like to see. Alongside a Sin'dorei/Shal'dorei development, we can also have a Dark Ranger/Sin'dorei force as well.

  17. #77
    NE's and taurens should workd with each other alot more, both are into mother nature and usually rather work things out then fight.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    They have used Malfurion, Tyrande and Illidan, but oh boy, short stints, and quickly out. but it's better than other character like Mordant, Jarod, - why bring Maiev back? she fucked up big time, they wrote, they should have used Sira for CotEN, but no, Maiev -- it was an odd choice.. because everyone knows Maiev. only to now have to use Sira later, because she is a disposable character they can turn into a dark ranger.
    Because Maiev is a character loved by fans with a background in history that shows us a different point of view from Tyrande and Malfurion.
    Jarold is the one they shouldn't use ... and luckily they don't.

    Sira is a pathetic attempt to give the Horde something cool. But since she's stolen from the Alliance and so badly written she doesn't know Horde.
    After that Sira returns to the green role of him. A tertiary character to give Maiev more Background.


    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Night elves were a very popular race that were just left dead in the water.. so we know they weren't abandoned for their lack popularity or fan interest (likely for the opposite as it was one of the sources of the faction number imbalance).. they've had sloppy and patchy treatment in what could have been really well done.
    The same happened with the ancient gods. Blizzard hates having popular things and can't write them.

    There are lots of lore Kaldorei but he's always mean. Because they know that the Kaldorei sell more than their stories. But they don't know how to write you know .. strong women.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    Her story was made to mirror Sylvanas' in terms of being a Ranger trying to defend her home against stacked odds, but where the characters in question turn is where we see Delaryn actively turn on the Night Elves. Sylvanas (before the Jailor), never truly hated the Sin'dorei and did want to help...in her own way, I suppose.
    Unfortunately it only served to show us how badly written this BFA is.
    It would have been great if Sylvanas raised her like a mini her or something and really used mind control on her.
    And Tyrande wasn't pegging her.

    It would be a good step a way to have a Sylvanas 2.0 named by Sylvanas and that has the essence of her.
    She imagines "I have to go but I want the renegades so I'm going to create a last leader for them as a gift."

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    I see wut u did dere

    @Terrorthatflapsinthenight
    • Humans and Dwarves.
    • Orcs and DS Trolls.
    • Tauren and nelfs.
    • Forsaken and belfs. If that's too old fashioned (I love that bit of story in BC), then belfs + Nightborne is also a good pairing.
    • Goblins and Gnomes, in a sort of not-so-friendly rivalry.
    • Worgen and nelfs (we saw that to an extent in BfA).
    our man is the biggest Elf fan ever seen on any forum in history
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    They had no prior build-up and instead tried to leech off of already established things people are familiar with. The Scourge? Maldraxxus did that. The Lich King? The Jailer did that. Frostmourne? The Runecarver made that. Sargeras corruption by demons and everything resulting from that? Also the Jailer's plan.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalium View Post
    All.

    /end thread

    Seriously, we need a rebuilding expansion. One that sees that Horde and Alliance dismantled... you are just an Adventurer again who can help any of the races. Help the Gnomes retake Gnomeregan? Sure. Help the Forsaken clear out the plague in Lordaeron? Why not? Help the Blood Elves rebuild their fractured city? Ok. Help the Night Elves relocate to Hyjal? Sign me up! Point is we should have grown beyond petty racial squabbles... besides there are more than enough outside things that want to kill us all to make us finally band together.
    Actually humanity has not even grown beyond petty racial/religist/nationalistic squabbles in its entire history and you want that to happen in game? LMAO

    Try picking something that makes more sense.

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