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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontenac View Post
    Argus was a Titan though. Why should his soul go to the Shadowlands after his death?
    It shouldn't. So yeah, this makes little sense, though it may simply be a misinterpretation by the OP. The Legion was certainly doing stuff that would help the Jailer, and Argus was part of what kept it running.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontenac View Post
    Argus was a Titan though. Why should his soul go to the Shadowlands after his death?
    It was probably not Argus himself that took down the Arbiter...

    More like he was infused with Death Magics (That were corrupted by Revendreth's and Sargeras' might) and that shit returned back to its source in the Shadowlands...

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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    It shouldn't. So yeah, this makes little sense, though it may simply be a misinterpretation by the OP. The Legion was certainly doing stuff that would help the Jailer, and Argus was part of what kept it running.
    This too, ngl.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    Wait.. so the Nathrezim planned on heroes of Azeroth beating the scourge, beating Deathwing, beating the legion, and then killing Argus this whole time?
    No matter who won, Zovaal was gonna do his shit anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    Look at bald guy! Bald guy is the best villain ever!!! Sargeras was just a pawn cuz bald guy smart!!! But random Elf who was never actually that important or interesting and was basically just killed by Arthas and never had any real relevance other than leading a bunch of dead people until Legion is going to be smarter and like one-shot him, which makes you wonder why she isn't basically Caesar yet if she's somehow this smart and powerful! Look at how cool our bad guys are!!!

    I feel my brain bleeding.
    Reminder, she's only this powerful cause of Zovaal.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    This kind of cheapens all of the world-ending/life-threatening experiences we've faced in the past.


    "LOL IT WAS THE DREADLORDS ALL ALONG" is a really, really, lame retcon.


    Also... "across all realities" line is interesting. Does this imply the dreadlords have been to other timelines?
    We know they have been because of WoD, we fought a few dreadlords during that expansion which is a different timeline.
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

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  4. #24
    ""LOL IT WAS THE DREADLORDS ALL ALONG" is a really, really, lame retcon."

    I pray you guys actually read the old lore.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    Look at bald guy! Bald guy is the best villain ever!!! Sargeras was just a pawn cuz bald guy smart!!! But random Elf who was never actually that important or interesting and was basically just killed by Arthas and never had any real relevance other than leading a bunch of dead people until Legion is going to be smarter and like one-shot him, which makes you wonder why she isn't basically Caesar yet if she's somehow this smart and powerful! Look at how cool our bad guys are!!!

    I feel my brain bleeding.
    After BfA or especially after the "ropes" bullshit, I don't expect even comics tier writing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Quote Originally Posted by Toho View Post
    The Horde is basically the guy that gets mad that the guy that they just beat the crap out of had the audacity to bleed on them.
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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontenac View Post
    Argus was a Titan though. Why should his soul go to the Shadowlands after his death?
    The way I see it make sense is if the Dreadlords somehow predicted he'd be killed and somehow caused his soul to shoot down to the Shadowlands instead of its intended destination. Being used to processing mortal souls and totally unable to handle a Titan's, the Arbiter would bluescreen. That definitely raises the question as to exactly how long a game they're playing if they can predict the events of Legion this precisely. Or maybe Argus's endless torture via demons caused his soul to be so damaged it couldn't go to the Order plane and was ditched to the Shadowlands by default? Who knows at this point.

    Trying to tie all this together definitely isn't elegant. But they did say that death broke during Legion, and I can't see a more likely cause than the soul of what would be the Titan of death breaking the machine. Really the only thing that makes this entire chain of event puzzling is Blizzard insisting that dead Titans go to whatever the plane of Order is; would have made more sense if Argus was just the first Titan to completely 100% die, due to being used as fuel for both the Legion and the ritual imprisoning Sargeras, and nobody knew it would do that to the Arbiter, with the Jailer merely using a golden opportunity.
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  7. #27
    You guys do realize Argus' World Soul was used to keep Sargeras imprisoned, yes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by StationaryHawk View Post
    I can't wait for the next expansion when all of this is part of someone else's grand scheme.
    How can it be? The source is Zovaal. The only way the Void Lords can top this shit is if they knew about this plot all along and knew Zovaal would lose for their benefit, which makes 100% sense, knowing their infinite possibilities/truths BS.

  8. #28
    The problem is not the lore itself. But how he tells you.
    Nzoth has been preparing for 20 years and this peeled one came out 1 year ago and is going to die in 1 year.

    If Pelado had spent several years assembling the idea that it is a bad ending, it would not be so badly received. I'm not even saying backwards. Imagine that after Legion for 3 expansions they sell us that the final bad guy is the guy from hell and there comes out the bald. There if it sounds like it makes sense.

    It is a simple matter of time. The longer he has been putting together something, the more Op will the fans expect it to be. You cannot put the enemy in turn of the expansion above the enemy of 3 or more expansions.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by guisadop View Post
    I'm sort of lost, what exactly does this change? Hasn't this been speculated for some time, now? Maybe I'm missing part of the bigger picture? Is there something about this in the PTR?

    Also, who is "Master"? Denathrius?
    The Master is probably Zovaal. The Dreadlords and Denathrius aren't going to stand against Zovaal, since Denathrius both A. Needs Zovaal to restore him, and B. Gave up his sigil in service of him and genuinely believes the Banished One in that he'll claim everything for himself so that Denathrius could rule alongside him.

    Also know that the Dreadlords directly sent the Fatescribe to Zovaal, and Zovaal never said he was going to keep Denathrius inside that prison.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by TheFirstOnes View Post
    ""LOL IT WAS THE DREADLORDS ALL ALONG" is a really, really, lame retcon."

    I pray you guys actually read the old lore.
    except in the old lore, they werent behind LITERALLY everything. they AND the eredar caused sargras to go mad with rage, and then they got fcked over bc he literally enslaved them afterwards. and thats it.

    now, they didnt get fcked over bc he didnt really enslave them, they just acted like he did, and they are behind much, MUCH more stuff.
    this is a serious retcon, even compared to the old lore (which btw got retconned, so it doesnt matter anymore) and thats a fact
    The crooked shitposter with no eyes is watching from the endless thread.

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  11. #31
    Scarab Lord Auxis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontenac View Post
    Argus was a Titan though. Why should his soul go to the Shadowlands after his death?
    Have we ever had any confirmation as to what happens when a Titan dies? The pantheon's souls were saved from Sargeras' betrayal via Norgannon's spell.

    The corrupted Titan that Sargeras killed which led to him forming the Burning Legion, was Void corrupted and would have likely gone to the Void.

    Yes, I get that the Titans - being part of Order - should go back to Order.
    But we denizens of Azeroth/reality - places presumably within Order as we are literally standing on a baby Titan - go to the Shadowlands.
    If we are sent to the Shadowlands, why is it so out-of-reason that a Titan soul might somehow slip into the Shadowlands if it dies in reality?
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  12. #32
    Just fire the lot of them lol

    The Story department has been in a down low for so long. Maybe it's time for a bloody change.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Houle View Post
    except in the old lore, they werent behind LITERALLY everything. they AND the eredar caused sargras to go mad with rage, and then they got fcked over bc he literally enslaved them afterwards. and thats it.

    now, they didnt get fcked over bc he didnt really enslave them, they just acted like he did, and they are behind much, MUCH more stuff.
    this is a serious retcon, even compared to the old lore (which btw got retconned, so it doesnt matter anymore) and thats a fact
    WC3 has the Eredar corrupt him. Classic has the Dreadlords make Sargeras question creation and his ways of Order.

    "now, they didnt get fcked over bc he didnt really enslave them, they just acted like he did, and they are behind much, MUCH more stuff." Pretty sure they had to serve him, whether they liked or not anyway, due to Sargeras' immense power.

  14. #34
    I am Murloc! Atrea's Avatar
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    This is some good, Game of Thrones season 8, "fans writing their own endings based on this one thing a few people fixated on" shit.

    The real entertainment of GoT S8 wasn't just to see the ending of the show - which I thought was just fine; I never felt the show ranked higher than a B+ and the ending was a B+ ending. It was to laugh at all of the whiny fans, each of whom had in their own minds constructed the "right" ending, see them relentlessly defend their predictions online, and then predictably, lose their collective shit because it wasn't what they had envisioned, and why their version would have been totally awesome.

    People do this all the time. First time I remember it was, "Who shot JR?", on Dallas.

    This is the same thing. People are trying to guess "who's the red soul?"; it's going to turn out to be something really mundane like "it was just a spell" and people are going to lose their minds. Not because it was bad writing, but because they look silly for investing so much on an incidental detail that ended up not being all that relevant.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrea View Post
    stuff
    So you're entertained by people not liking bad writing. Strange kink, but okay.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Quote Originally Posted by Toho View Post
    The Horde is basically the guy that gets mad that the guy that they just beat the crap out of had the audacity to bleed on them.
    Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Auxis View Post
    Have we ever had any confirmation as to what happens when a Titan dies?
    We don't even know if Argus died. The fight ends before his health reaches 0 AND we don't see him AT ALL in the cinematic that showed the entire area of where we had just fought him.
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by TheFirstOnes View Post
    The Master is probably Zovaal. The Dreadlords and Denathrius aren't going to stand against Zovaal, since Denathrius both A. Needs Zovaal to restore him, and B. Gave up his sigil in service of him and genuinely believes the Banished One in that he'll claim everything for himself so that Denathrius could rule alongside him.

    Also know that the Dreadlords directly sent the Fatescribe to Zovaal, and Zovaal never said he was going to keep Denathrius inside that prison.
    Dreadlords referred to Denathrius as their master.

    So... Denathrius was purposely playing a pawn to the Jailer? It was part of his "bigger plan"? Or what?

    Why did we (heroes) even keep Denathrius within that sword? instead of killing him? We're not allowed to kill bad guys anymore?

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Palapop View Post
    Dreadlords referred to Denathrius as their master.

    So... Denathrius was purposely playing a pawn to the Jailer? It was part of his "bigger plan"? Or what?

    Why did we (heroes) even keep Denathrius within that sword? instead of killing him? We're not allowed to kill bad guys anymore?
    He's not really "playing pawn", he's serving Zovaal cause he believes that, with Zovaal claiming all existence, Death would be the ultimate power and he and his Venthyr + Dreadlords would gain ultimate power. That is the bigger plan there. He and Mal'ganis both tell Renathal this shit in different ways, and that he just needed to Obey.

    Denathrius put his own essence into the Blade through Remornia, and she claims that "Zovaal shall restore him". We kept him as Prisoner since it appears he was pretty much needed to keep Revendreth intact, that is until their Sigil was reforged through the Medallion's being together as a whole once more post-Denathrius escape.

    Now, it would appear as though the Dreadlords are sending Denathrius' essence to Zovaal, or to a safe location, so that once Zovaal claims the last Sigil, Denathrius will be around to see Zovaal claim the Sepulcher of the First Ones once and for all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    We don't even know if Argus died. The fight ends before his health reaches 0 AND we don't see him AT ALL in the cinematic that showed the entire area of where we had just fought him.
    Uhm...

    The fuck? We do kill him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrea View Post
    This is some good, Game of Thrones season 8, "fans writing their own endings based on this one thing a few people fixated on" shit.

    The real entertainment of GoT S8 wasn't just to see the ending of the show - which I thought was just fine; I never felt the show ranked higher than a B+ and the ending was a B+ ending. It was to laugh at all of the whiny fans, each of whom had in their own minds constructed the "right" ending, see them relentlessly defend their predictions online, and then predictably, lose their collective shit because it wasn't what they had envisioned, and why their version would have been totally awesome.

    People do this all the time. First time I remember it was, "Who shot JR?", on Dallas.

    This is the same thing. People are trying to guess "who's the red soul?"; it's going to turn out to be something really mundane like "it was just a spell" and people are going to lose their minds. Not because it was bad writing, but because they look silly for investing so much on an incidental detail that ended up not being all that relevant.
    How is it that you'd just ignore all the blatant criticism that exists and use it for a weird "FANS ARE JUST WHINY" post? Despite me defending a lot of the lore here, lots of these guys have a point in that SL is pretty shitty in terms of writing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkeon View Post
    Just fire the lot of them lol

    The Story department has been in a down low for so long. Maybe it's time for a bloody change.
    What the fuck are you going to change exactly? Modern WoW, for all its faults, makes old WoW look pathetic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Auxis View Post
    Have we ever had any confirmation as to what happens when a Titan dies? The pantheon's souls were saved from Sargeras' betrayal via Norgannon's spell.

    The corrupted Titan that Sargeras killed which led to him forming the Burning Legion, was Void corrupted and would have likely gone to the Void.

    Yes, I get that the Titans - being part of Order - should go back to Order.
    But we denizens of Azeroth/reality - places presumably within Order as we are literally standing on a baby Titan - go to the Shadowlands.
    If we are sent to the Shadowlands, why is it so out-of-reason that a Titan soul might somehow slip into the Shadowlands if it dies in reality?
    Danuser talked about how Titan Souls go their own Realm of Order or something like that during his 9.0 interview with Taliesin.

  19. #39
    If the Sylvanas soul split thing is a thing. Perhaps she made the deal with the jailer at some point to send a “corrupt” split of her soul to the arby’s. Something they could have negotiated when she was dead at some point to avoid her “hell”. Which with her remaining half bound to the jailer. Anduin and Sylvanas probably made a secret backstab plot for the future where Anduin accepts the “conversion” for Sylvanas to gain the Jailer’s trust showing him that she is on his side and can do what he needs. Breaking death simply means playing the Jailer’s cards until the 4D chess move was sylvanas swapped the soul fragments where her good one was actually sent up to the arbiter and needs her bad one to die by the “heros”. Then it awakens the arbiter when that soul anima reconnects back to her in Oribos or whatever. Idk if any of that made sense.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Houle View Post
    you get a retcon, and you get a retcon, and you get a retcon, AND YOU GET A FCKN RETCON TOO
    FREE RETCONS FOR EVERYONE WHO WAS EVER A VILLAIN



    and the void lords were just pawns in the scheme of a single evil "first one" who betrayed the others.....who in turn was just a pawn in the scheme of the nefarious "before one" HA! bet ya didnt see that coming, did ya playerz??
    Behold! It is I, Activision. Blizzard was merely our pawn. Metzen, Kaplan, Morheim, they were all just pieces to the puzzle. I, supreme ruler Bobby Kotick, am here to demand you to make purchases for Hearthstone: Classic.

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