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  1. #61
    Stealthed Defender unbound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kagthul View Post
    Fairly stupid.



    So your friends anecdotal issues that can be entirely traced to his not understanding how to check actual benchmarks and stuff convinced you to stay on a less secure, less efficient, slower OS? Cool story.

    Win 10 has been faster on the same hardware since day 1. It is LESS bloated than 10. All that telemetry that people complained about in Win 10? Win 7 collects ALL OF THAT TOO, except you CANT SHUT IT OFF, in Win 10 you can disable it all in just a few clicks.



    What tiles? Windows 10 is not Windows 8. The only "tiles" are in the Start Menu and you can shut those off with two clicks.



    It was never messy. In fact, the main draw of 10 over 8 was that it was much more streamlined and like 7, rolling back all the weird hybrid tablet ideas (which can still be enabled on Win 10 tablets but are off by default).

    And as for it "just working" - yeah, there are lots of things that dont. The ass-backwards DX12 implementation on 7 is only half-featured. DXR, etc, dont work. No ray tracing. No DLSS. Terrible software scheduler (meaning it will make garbage use of multiple cores compared to Win 10), etc, etc etc.

    Anyone telling you otherwise is either lying and/or so stupid they were incapable of shutting off the very few annoying features with a handful of clicks.

    And anyone expecting Windows 11 to be a big departure from 10 needs a serious wakeup call.

    Microsoft is treating Windows like Apple treats OSX/MacOS. Its just incremental upgrades from here on out kids.

    Quit being a luddite.
    All of this, plus Windows 7 end of life was 1 1/2 years ago, so the OP is now being exposed to security issues that will never be fixed.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    Be it 10-2 or 11, but Microsoft has announced an event that they will talk about the next Windows, that is not based on Windows 10 as they want to phase out a lot legacy stuff that makes ARM a struggle on Windows atm.
    Either way you won't have to pay for it, if you own Windows 10 they're doing free upgrades for everybody so regardless of what they do.
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  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Daronokk View Post
    Windows 10 is more prone to bluescreen crashes and occassionally fails to complete big updates and thus does a rollback. But sometimes the rollback messes up as well. If unlucky you can f*ck up your install this way. I have had this happen on multiple computers and it only happens on Windows 10. One machine even failed to run an update for over a year, constantly failling on 60% installed and rolling back over and over again.

    Windows 7 never had this problem. It was simply more stable.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yeah, it has less bugs and doesn't crash as often as Windows 10. It was simply better.
    you either have a bad image/install of windows 10 or some software that was being installed is not working right with windows 10 which likely isn't MS's fault.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    I still have Win 7 as well and honestly no reason to upgrade. Sure, maybe it's a little slower, but everything is fast enough for me. Also having control over when to upgrade and when not is a huge win for me.
    As long as it works and as long as you don't have any sensible data saved on your PC, Win 7 should be fine.
    you can control when you update in win 10.... granted it's best to configure working hours and let it updates itself when it wants to imo. And yeah fine using a no longer supported/updated/patched OS.... not so much.
    Member: Shadow Lands Alpha Club, Member since 4/9/2020

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    Windows 11 isn't happening, 10 is the final OS for the foreseeable future. They rebuilt it from the ground up so that it could be updated forever.
    Have you seen this thread by chance? lol

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...st-impressions

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    Have you seen this thread by chance? lol

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...st-impressions
    No that's pretty cool though, I'm going to assume it's free to upgrade like Windows 8 to 10 was.
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  6. #66
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post

    Windows 10 is just fine now plus you can get Classic Shell which makes it laid out exactly like older versions of windows. That being said if you're a gamer there will be games and there are already games that require Windows 10 and it's going to eventually be that every new game will require Windows 10 in a few years.
    You don't need classic shell. You can have the Win 7 start menu super easy in Windows 10, I posted a screenshot of it not long ago in this thread. Fuck, even the control panel looks the same if you change ONE SETTING.


  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Kagthul View Post
    Fairly stupid.



    So your friends anecdotal issues that can be entirely traced to his not understanding how to check actual benchmarks and stuff convinced you to stay on a less secure, less efficient, slower OS? Cool story.

    Win 10 has been faster on the same hardware since day 1. It is LESS bloated than 10. All that telemetry that people complained about in Win 10? Win 7 collects ALL OF THAT TOO, except you CANT SHUT IT OFF, in Win 10 you can disable it all in just a few clicks.



    What tiles? Windows 10 is not Windows 8. The only "tiles" are in the Start Menu and you can shut those off with two clicks.



    It was never messy. In fact, the main draw of 10 over 8 was that it was much more streamlined and like 7, rolling back all the weird hybrid tablet ideas (which can still be enabled on Win 10 tablets but are off by default).

    And as for it "just working" - yeah, there are lots of things that dont. The ass-backwards DX12 implementation on 7 is only half-featured. DXR, etc, dont work. No ray tracing. No DLSS. Terrible software scheduler (meaning it will make garbage use of multiple cores compared to Win 10), etc, etc etc.

    Anyone telling you otherwise is either lying and/or so stupid they were incapable of shutting off the very few annoying features with a handful of clicks.

    And anyone expecting Windows 11 to be a big departure from 10 needs a serious wakeup call.

    Microsoft is treating Windows like Apple treats OSX/MacOS. Its just incremental upgrades from here on out kids.

    Quit being a luddite.

    As a Microsoft Employee (who actually works on the Windows Performance Team), this is the best post in this entire thread so far
    Last edited by Wavebossa; 2021-06-16 at 03:38 PM.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    I had to upgrade as some games stopped supporting 7
    This. Couldnt even launch Far Cry 5 on Win7.

    Also installing Win7 on newer boards or via USB 3.0 is just nasty.

    I would love to use Win7 but Win10 is just easier and better.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommi View Post
    You don't need classic shell. You can have the Win 7 start menu super easy in Windows 10, I posted a screenshot of it not long ago in this thread. Fuck, even the control panel looks the same if you change ONE SETTING.
    May be, but OpenShell also allows you to have almost 7-like Aero Start menu (default skin is flat 8-like), it also allows you to have task bar, looking similar to Aero one. What OpenShell can't - to change that stupid ugly flat theme. And list of such small changes goes and goes on. And it brings simple question. Why should I bother about that all that crap, if I have fully functional OS with perfect visual theme?

    It's same crap, that happens with Wow now. Wow loses subs due to wrong game design, players tell Blizzard, what is wrong with their game, even FF starts to be more popular, but nothing is done to fix it. Instead, Blizzard go further and further along that road of terrible design, like if they would have some intentional plan about it.

    For example M$ failed to conquer mobile market and now they try to abuse their core desktop auditory in order to make them become used to Windows-specific design and then push them towards M$'s devices with mobile Windows. But, as in case of relying on TBCC and killing retail - they risk to lose both sides at the same time.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by cuafpr View Post
    you can control when you update in win 10.... granted it's best to configure working hours and let it updates itself when it wants to imo. And yeah fine using a no longer supported/updated/patched OS.... not so much.
    But can you choose not to update? And never be asked about it? And of course win 7 is fine. I don't need support. I did not update windows 7 when it was still supported, I do not update it now. Because it just works as it is (just the IE does not work, but who cares about IE?). And everytime I updated Windows a different thing I installed broke, be it an old game, java, some application I installed, whatever. So I go by "don't fix what's not broken" and will continue to use my unupgraded system until I get new hardware that demands a newer operating system. Because what value does a new/updated OS have for me, if 50% of all the stuff I installed ceases to function properly?
    I acknowledge that win 10 is better. But it is not so much better that I can be assed to build my setup anew, which would be required.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    But can you choose not to update? And never be asked about it? And of course win 7 is fine. I don't need support. I did not update windows 7 when it was still supported, I do not update it now. Because it just works as it is (just the IE does not work, but who cares about IE?). And everytime I updated Windows a different thing I installed broke, be it an old game, java, some application I installed, whatever. So I go by "don't fix what's not broken" and will continue to use my unupgraded system until I get new hardware that demands a newer operating system. Because what value does a new/updated OS have for me, if 50% of all the stuff I installed ceases to function properly?
    I acknowledge that win 10 is better. But it is not so much better that I can be assed to build my setup anew, which would be required.
    Technically, yes, but you have to disable the TrustedInstaller service to kill feature updates forever, but let me give you some context to this.

    1. TrustedInstaller (tiworker) does much more than just feature updates, it handles any Windows Modules installs including driver registration
    2. Windows 10 feature updates are treated as different OSes in the same way that we treat Windows 8 and Windows 8.1 as separate OSes (same with 2012 and 2012R2)
    3. So if you choose to remain on 1803 instead of coming to 20H2, etc... you are choosing to remain in an OS that is no longer supported


    If you do not want to kill TrustedInstaller on startup, there are other things you can do delay the feature updates of Windows 10

    1. You can set a defer registry flag for 365 days to block all feature updates. 365 days is the maximum, after that time has expired, we will no longer honor the values set in this key, even if you keep on resetting them.
    2. You can force compatblocks to have WUSA (Windows Update) see your machine as "not compatible for feature updates". I wont go into too much detail on this because its technically not supported and I shouldn't be giving you advice on how to make your system unsupported.
    3. You can block WUSA via firewall rules, setting up a fake WSUS server (point to localhost), etc etc


    I'm just letting you know that is possible to stop feature updates on Windows 10, just harder than it was on Windows 7


    EDIT: Just to add... the defer key is not honored if your current feature version of Windows 10 is End of Support.

    Currently all Windows 10 versions 1809 and lower are end of support except for LTSB (1607)
    You can check your feature version with the Winver command
    Last edited by Wavebossa; 2021-06-16 at 03:40 PM.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    But can you choose not to update? And never be asked about it? And of course win 7 is fine. I don't need support. I did not update windows 7 when it was still supported, I do not update it now. Because it just works as it is (just the IE does not work, but who cares about IE?). And everytime I updated Windows a different thing I installed broke, be it an old game, java, some application I installed, whatever. So I go by "don't fix what's not broken" and will continue to use my unupgraded system until I get new hardware that demands a newer operating system. Because what value does a new/updated OS have for me, if 50% of all the stuff I installed ceases to function properly?
    I acknowledge that win 10 is better. But it is not so much better that I can be assed to build my setup anew, which would be required.
    yes you can (https://www.windowscentral.com/how-s...lly-windows-10) but an OS that is no longer support is a wide-open target, click on bad link in email and up in smoke, it goes for example. the mantra of "if it's not broken don't fix it" just doesn't work in IT and is the hardest thing I battle at work forcing upgrades. Even the new MS edge is good (queue browser haters). Most software should run under win 10, esp if its patched to the latest version. If the software is old, outdated, or from a now-defunct company it could be an issue I guess.
    Member: Shadow Lands Alpha Club, Member since 4/9/2020

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Wavebossa View Post
    As a Microsoft Employee (who actually works on the Windows Performance Team), this is the best post in this entire thread so far
    Your windows 10 logo being a single colour makes the entire thing visually unappealing. I like my Start button colorful, not white!
    Performance wise it might be fine. But everything in it looks so ugly...

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    Your windows 10 logo being a single colour makes the entire thing visually unappealing. I like my Start button colorful, not white!
    Performance wise it might be fine. But everything in it looks so ugly...
    Lol, the UEX team handles the logo (i believe, not 100% sure), I have absolutely nothing to do with how the OS looks
    Last edited by Wavebossa; 2021-06-16 at 03:44 PM.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by cuafpr View Post
    yes you can (https://www.windowscentral.com/how-s...lly-windows-10) but an OS that is no longer support is a wide-open target, click on bad link in email and up in smoke, it goes for example. the mantra of "if it's not broken don't fix it" just doesn't work in IT and is the hardest thing I battle at work forcing upgrades. Even the new MS edge is good (queue browser haters). Most software should run under win 10, esp if its patched to the latest version. If the software is old, outdated, or from a now-defunct company it could be an issue I guess.
    I know registry editing can achieve this. But that's very inconvenient. It must be a built in feature to give your customers the option not to update. If I wanted to be patronized I would use Mac OS.

    And I simply know what to click and whatnot. I've never had a virus/adware/whatelse and I never activated the Windows Firewall anyways (since that thing was such a nuissance when playing over LAN).
    Yes, for business and unexperienced users having updates applied automatically is a wonderful thing. But I am neither. The fact that win 10 does not even want to give me the option to choose whether to update or not combined with the fact, that Microsoft repeatedly put forth "updates" that broke win10 for many users, does not entice me to upgrade when I don't need to.

  16. #76
    XP was great at the time.

    7 was great at the time.

    10 is great now.

    Time to move on.

  17. #77
    OOSU10 installed for privacy, and some other minor tweaks and im good. Yes Windows 10, windows in general, could be a lot better, but Im not gonna play on some ancient software...
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  18. #78
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daronokk View Post
    Windows 7 is a lot more stable than Windows 10, but since support is stopping you pretty much have no choice but to take that step.
    As someone who spends all day repairing systems and fixing stuff, this is not just subjectively false, but objectively false too.
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  19. #79
    Scarab Lord Eugenik's Avatar
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    This thread is hilarious. Bet you win7 people still use anti-virus too lmao.. fucking dinosaurs.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Here is something:

    For my work, I needed a new computer (Asus laptop) came with 10 installed. I connected my perfectly fine drawing tablet to it, a trusty Wacom Cintiq 20''. Didn't work. Got a computer service on it. They installed 8 - as that tablet worked fine on my older laptop with 8. Turns out, the new laptop is totally unstable with 8.

    So..in the end, 10 is back on my laptop and I had to buy a new Cintiq 22'' that runs also with the new hardware. Needless to say I am annoyed, just don't know at whom more...Microsoft, Asus or Wacom. As if we don't have enough electronic waste already, making shit obsolete deliberately makes me furious.
    Dont Wacoms run off of you PC? This sounds weird...
    Let's look at the test results. You are a horrible person. It says right here, you're a horrible person. We weren't even testing that. Don't let the horrible person thing get you down though. Science justified your parents choice to abandon you.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    I know registry editing can achieve this. But that's very inconvenient. It must be a built in feature to give your customers the option not to update. If I wanted to be patronized I would use Mac OS.

    And I simply know what to click and whatnot. I've never had a virus/adware/whatelse and I never activated the Windows Firewall anyways (since that thing was such a nuissance when playing over LAN).
    Yes, for business and unexperienced users having updates applied automatically is a wonderful thing. But I am neither. The fact that win 10 does not even want to give me the option to choose whether to update or not combined with the fact, that Microsoft repeatedly put forth "updates" that broke win10 for many users, does not entice me to upgrade when I don't need to.
    If you are on home Pro or Enterprise (wont work on home), you can make a local GPO to point a nonexistent WSUS server for updates, which will effectively do what you are asking for, and it is the closest thing to a "UI option" for this without manually altering registry flags. If you are genuinely interested in how to do this, i can show you. Its a very quick process, will take you less than 1 minute. Its not future proof though, we may decide to ignore it in the future.

    However, I think people (not necessarily you) are conflating 2 different things.

    Windows 10 is not 1 OS, at least that's not how we at Microsoft intend it to be. Windows 10 is many different OSes, and the feature set is the OS you are on. We dont say "are you running Windows 10?" We say "are you running 1803, 20H1? 1607?". The reason why is because these are separate branches that get updated concurrently. These are not really the same OS, the same way that 2012 and 2012R2 are not the same OS. Or 8 and 8.1 are not the same OS.


    So I think you are talking about feature updates, and not the cumulative security updates that we roll up monthly. I think you are talking about going from 1803 to 1809 vs going from May monthly rollup.

    I do agree that it would be nice for SOME users if we gave them an option to remain on their feature set indefinitely (like we did previously), but it would be absolute hell for us from a support side. Instead of supporting 8 and 8.1 (two separate OSes), we would need separate support for over 10 versions of Windows 10.

    That's why we sunset older versions, it has to do more with support than anything else.

    Even I disable automatic feature updates on my lab machines, because I have to have them remain at their unsupported version numbers to troubleshoot certain issues that only occur on certain versions.

    I have an entire HyperV Cluster (3 hypervisors, 21 nodes) of Windows 10 machines just so I can bounce around versions quickly for testing.

    Troubleshooting outdated versions sucks us haha.

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