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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Wavebossa View Post
    If you are on home Pro or Enterprise (wont work on home), you can make a local GPO to point a nonexistent WSUS server for updates, which will effectively do what you are asking for, and it is the closest thing to a "UI option" for this without manually altering registry flags. If you are genuinely interested in how to do this, i can show you. Its a very quick process, will take you less than 1 minute. Its not future proof though, we may decide to ignore it in the future.
    That's a generous offer, but as I said: I will stay with win 7 on my current PC. When I upgrade to a new PC I will upgrade to win 10 (or it's successor), but I think until then I will have forgotten how to setup what you're suggesting, because considering the current prices for hardware I will probably have to wait at least one or two years until I get a new computer

    However, I think people (not necessarily you) are conflating 2 different things.

    Windows 10 is not 1 OS, at least that's not how we at Microsoft intend it to be. Windows 10 is many different OSes, and the feature set is the OS you are on. We dont say "are you running Windows 10?" We say "are you running 1803, 20H1? 1607?". The reason why is because these are separate branches that get updated concurrently. These are not really the same OS, the same way that 2012 and 2012R2 are not the same OS. Or 8 and 8.1 are not the same OS.


    So I think you are talking about feature updates, and not the cumulative security updates that we roll up monthly. I think you are talking about going from 1803 to 1809 vs going from May monthly rollup.

    I do agree that it would be nice for SOME users if we gave them an option to remain on their feature set indefinitely (like we did previously), but it would be absolute hell for us from a support side. Instead of supporting 8 and 8.1 (two separate OSes), we would need separate support for over 10 versions of Windows 10.

    That's why we sunset older versions, it has to do more with support than anything else.

    Even I disable automatic feature updates on my lab machines, because I have to have them remain at their unsupported version numbers to troubleshoot certain issues that only occur on certain versions.

    I have an entire HyperV Cluster (3 hypervisors, 21 nodes) of Windows 10 machines just so I can bounce around versions quickly for testing.

    Troubleshooting outdated versions sucks us haha.
    Thank you for the insight! I can imagine that it's hard to support many different versions simultaniously and imo it would be completely fine to only support the newest feature set. But why not simply give the users the option to stay on an old, unsupported feature set? If it stops working for them, then they can still choose to update. Is it because the security updates are specifically designed for one feature set?
    What I'm essentially asking is: Why am I able to work and game on my win 7 professional service pack 1 without many problems, even though I ignored any support for it since I installed it and why is there no such option (so the option to just stay on a specific feature set, acknowleding that it is not supported anymore) for windows 10 without having to resort to "unintended" user behavior?

  2. #82
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    But why not simply give the users the option to stay on an old, unsupported feature set? If it stops working for them, then they can still choose to update. Is it because the security updates are specifically designed for one feature set?
    Effectively.
    it is more expensive for microsoft to support old stuff, and more expensive for most users to continue using old stuff.

    I cannot begin to count (lets start at five hundred and go from there) how many times people have had to pay a ton of money, anywhere from $500 for regular users (which, hey, for people living check to check is life changing), to $100,000 for some businesses, because they insisted on staying with old stuff instead up upgrading. They either end up with no upgrade path and having to start from scratch on new software, or they got whammied by some security flaw.

    What I'm essentially asking is: Why am I able to work and game on my win 7 professional service pack 1 without many problems, even though I ignored any support for it since I installed it and why is there no such option (so the option to just stay on a specific feature set, acknowleding that it is not supported anymore) for windows 10 without having to resort to "unintended" user behavior?
    Luck, pretty much. You drew the 'conveniently didn't have problems' card.
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  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Season2mask View Post
    Just HOW stupid is that? I've seen no need to change, to be totally honest, and my friend complained about 10 for ages because it was bloated with all this needless crap. It just looks so ugly with all the tiles and stuff. Windows 7 is so simple and just...works. What am I missing here? Should I be on 10? Is it still messy?
    Win 10 is fine. On first boot, DO NOT connect to the internet so you can have a login that isn't attached to an email

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    I know registry editing can achieve this. But that's very inconvenient. It must be a built in feature to give your customers the option not to update. If I wanted to be patronized I would use Mac OS.

    And I simply know what to click and whatnot. I've never had a virus/adware/whatelse and I never activated the Windows Firewall anyways (since that thing was such a nuissance when playing over LAN).
    Yes, for business and unexperienced users having updates applied automatically is a wonderful thing. But I am neither. The fact that win 10 does not even want to give me the option to choose whether to update or not combined with the fact, that Microsoft repeatedly put forth "updates" that broke win10 for many users, does not entice me to upgrade when I don't need to.
    uh yep ok you are one of those users... good luck is all I'll say then.
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  5. #85
    Scarab Lord Eugenik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Wacom has several devices....the Cintiq seies is like a second screen that you can draw on. So while it switched on via the HDMI or similar port (and even got recognized as attached) it just always displayed a blue screen and "goes to sleep". Beyond a certain OS version, we encountered similar problems attaching older 20'' cintiq to our MACs at work.

    Anyways...couldn't find a solution online and neither could the tech folks that tried.
    Thats a shame. How old was it?
    Let's look at the test results. You are a horrible person. It says right here, you're a horrible person. We weren't even testing that. Don't let the horrible person thing get you down though. Science justified your parents choice to abandon you.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    It was fairly old..like 7 years old. And a tad outdated at 1280 x 800. But it did the job so it was mostly annoying to exchange a piece of technology that was still doing the job it was supposed to do.
    Thats not a Windows or MacOS issue, its a Wacom issue. They didnt create updated drivers or extensions (.kext) for the older devices. Because they want you to buy a new several-hundred dollar drawing tablet.

  7. #87
    One of the few things that comes to mind seeing the OP's post is - Oh, look, one more potential botnet node. *eyeroll*
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  8. #88
    I constantly forget about one important aspect of Win10, that prevents me from migrating to it. So called "anit-pirate" system, that automatically deletes apps from my computer and behave like freakin virus. For example recently we received several notebooks with 10 and KES 11 installed with centralized 2k computers license (so I didn't have activation keys). And that stupid 10 all of a sudden decided to delete that KES on two notebooks. It couldn't fully uninstall KES, cuz KES had self-protection, but completely corrupted it's installation, so KES couldn't be recovered - only reinstalled, then deleted to remove protection and only then reinstalled again. And license was lost during this process. Yeah. Thx 10!

    I don't use pirate software, but I don't want M$ to decide what software I can use and what can't. It's mobile crap with being restricted to shop apps. I don't want to have that crap on my desktop.

  9. #89
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    I constantly forget about one important aspect of Win10, that prevents me from migrating to it. So called "anit-pirate" system, that automatically deletes apps from my computer and behave like freakin virus. For example recently we received several notebooks with 10 and KES 11 installed with centralized 2k computers license (so I didn't have activation keys). And that stupid 10 all of a sudden decided to delete that KES on two notebooks. It couldn't fully uninstall KES, cuz KES had self-protection, but completely corrupted it's installation, so KES couldn't be recovered - only reinstalled, then deleted to remove protection and only then reinstalled again. And license was lost during this process. Yeah. Thx 10!

    I don't use pirate software, but I don't want M$ to decide what software I can use and what can't. It's mobile crap with being restricted to shop apps. I don't want to have that crap on my desktop.
    That sounds a lot like there was something wrong with KES. I've never seen that before unless it was a pirated version, or something else was shady. Win10 Defender is usually pretty good about that stuff and is definitely not overzealous.

    Honestly, I'd write it off as "Buy Russian Products, Win Russian Prizes"
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  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodykiller86 View Post
    sounds more like you didnt know what you were doing. i work in IT and upgraded over 200 systems from windows 7 to 10 and the only issue i experienced was a bug with logitech's driver for a device sticking on boot. thats it
    The main issue I ran into with the over-the-top Win7-to-10 upgrades a few years ago, and I did about 200 like you did, was machines installed with not enough space in the system partition. Even then it was only about three machines. Two of them were too old, too junky to bother with, and one was an i5 laptop that was worth fixing, so I reloaded it with enough space and it's still working fine to this day.

    The main bluescreen issue I run into, and very rarely, is there's some font and Kyocera copier collision that will bluescreen a very occasional file. I just have them print the file to the HP color printer in the branch (employer is a regional bank) or change the font. No issue.

    Only other time bluescreens were an issue was the patch that MS themselves put out that f-ed up printing, especially on Kyocera copiers. It's all good now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wavebossa View Post
    As a Microsoft Employee (who actually works on the Windows Performance Team), this is the best post in this entire thread so far
    Well, after so many years, MS finally put some work into the core of the OS, instead of the wings, so to speak. And it's paid off.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    Effectively.
    it is more expensive for microsoft to support old stuff, and more expensive for most users to continue using old stuff.

    I cannot begin to count (lets start at five hundred and go from there) how many times people have had to pay a ton of money, anywhere from $500 for regular users (which, hey, for people living check to check is life changing), to $100,000 for some businesses, because they insisted on staying with old stuff instead up upgrading. They either end up with no upgrade path and having to start from scratch on new software, or they got whammied by some security flaw.
    Then there's business like the one I work for: banking. You think the bank auditors might be unhappy if we were still using Windows 7 at this point? Yeah. That could get expensive.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    Win 10 is fine. On first boot, DO NOT connect to the internet so you can have a login that isn't attached to an email
    Yeah, just say that you don't have internet, set up a local user. Most machines I build are going to end up on a domain, anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cuafpr View Post
    uh yep ok you are one of those users... good luck is all I'll say then.
    He's probably got a bot or two or three on there, and doesn't even know.

  11. #91
    you want a cookie? Want a pat on the head?

    Seriously, W7 users are like vegans. They will tell you they are. No matter if you want to know or not.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by 8bithamster View Post
    you want a cookie? Want a pat on the head?

    Seriously, W7 users are like vegans. They will tell you they are. No matter if you want to know or not.
    Pretty much, it's giga cringe, really.
    All my ignores are permanently filtered out and invisible to me. Responding to my posts with nonsense or insults is pointless, you're likely already invisible and if not - 3 clicks away. One ignore is much better than 3 pages of trolling.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by agm114r View Post
    The main issue I ran into with the over-the-top Win7-to-10 upgrades a few years ago, and I did about 200 like you did, was machines installed with not enough space in the system partition. Even then it was only about three machines. Two of them were too old, too junky to bother with, and one was an i5 laptop that was worth fixing, so I reloaded it with enough space and it's still working fine to this day.

    The main bluescreen issue I run into, and very rarely, is there's some font and Kyocera copier collision that will bluescreen a very occasional file. I just have them print the file to the HP color printer in the branch (employer is a regional bank) or change the font. No issue.

    Only other time bluescreens were an issue was the patch that MS themselves put out that f-ed up printing, especially on Kyocera copiers. It's all good now.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Well, after so many years, MS finally put some work into the core of the OS, instead of the wings, so to speak. And it's paid off.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Then there's business like the one I work for: banking. You think the bank auditors might be unhappy if we were still using Windows 7 at this point? Yeah. That could get expensive.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yeah, just say that you don't have internet, set up a local user. Most machines I build are going to end up on a domain, anyway.

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    He's probably got a bot or two or three on there, and doesn't even know.
    ahh yes i know exactly what you are talking about some strange ass dell formatted system partition that was less than 100mb and fat16 lol

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodykiller86 View Post
    ahh yes i know exactly what you are talking about some strange ass dell formatted system partition that was less than 100mb and fat16 lol
    In this case was an HP laptop, but total space was like 10 or 20, or something.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by agm114r View Post
    In this case was an HP laptop, but total space was like 10 or 20, or something.
    yeah its a similar things that all OEMs did as they had custom recovery environments for Windows 7. its exactly why i always just fresh install all OEM systems lol Windows 10 especially performs more consistently with a fresh install and not one with 7 OEM partitions lol

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodykiller86 View Post
    yeah its a similar things that all OEMs did as they had custom recovery environments for Windows 7. its exactly why i always just fresh install all OEM systems lol Windows 10 especially performs more consistently with a fresh install and not one with 7 OEM partitions lol
    Yeah, I just slap new Win 10 on new machines. They have OEM licenses, so they'll activate fine after, and it's quicker off the start to just install them with current revision, then update and get rid of bloatware crap that was pre-installed, and will show up again for any new users. Sure, I can get rid of it, but not as fast as just re-installing windows from a USB3 stick.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by agm114r View Post
    Yeah, I just slap new Win 10 on new machines. They have OEM licenses, so they'll activate fine after, and it's quicker off the start to just install them with current revision, then update and get rid of bloatware crap that was pre-installed, and will show up again for any new users. Sure, I can get rid of it, but not as fast as just re-installing windows from a USB3 stick.
    facts lol installing latest build...connecting to internet anddddd done lol after that its just standard app installs

  18. #98
    maybe wait a few months for windows 11 or whatever its called

  19. #99
    I also still use Windows 7, but I want to switch Windows 10 to because I want something new.

  20. #100
    Brewmaster Malania's Avatar
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    Changed from 7 to 10 about 4 months ago as most of the games I'm looking a these days are Windows 10 required. I've not had any issues as I use and used Windows 10 in the past at work.

    The only issue I ever had with 10 was on the launch, upgraded from 7 to 10 and it blue screened. So I just went back to 7 until the bugs were fixed. And I changed it over 4 months ago

    You're going to have to upgrade at some point if you game. 7 is dead now. May as well get used to it.

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