Page 8 of 31 FirstFirst ...
6
7
8
9
10
18
... LastLast
  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    Yeah which they usually don’t on large scale mines. Look up the Homestake mine for example. Been there. It’s literally a crater.
    You're still going on about this strip mine issue off the back of your incorrect assertion that lithium ion batteries cause more pollution than internal combustion cars?

    Also, that is not just "literally a crater", it's used for scientific research - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homest...(South_Dakota)

  2. #142
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    68,850
    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    Yeah which they usually don’t on large scale mines. Look up the Homestake mine for example. Been there. It’s literally a crater.
    If you wanna get technical, pit mines aren't strip mines.


  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    If it kicks in overnight I believe we'd be fucked, as a civilization. 200+ foot sea level rise would be the end of most things civilized. For the United States, we'd lose Hawaii and Alaska (collapse because no shipping). We'd lose more than 1/3 of the population's housing, all of our shipping. We'd see riots, famine, and more than likely the collapse of government. Found an interesting tool that show sea level rise, but it only goes up to 10 feet.
    Yeah...and PC2 will say "See? It's all good. It pays to be optimistic!

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    Yeah which they usually don’t on large scale mines. Look up the Homestake mine for example. Been there. It’s literally a crater.
    But it's not a strip-mine.

    People often incorrectly use strip-mining for all kinds of surface mining, since it sounds bad. Note that one reason Homestake is not being restored is that it is converted to a science center (primarily solar neutrinos, yes actual science), and it seems that Homestake isn't even a surface mine - as there are a number of deep underground tunnels.

    Similarly people use "melting of polar ice caps" to confuse the melting of the Artic (which is happening) with the melting of Antarctica (which would be problematic if it happens, but that's hundreds or thousands of years in the future).
    Last edited by Forogil; 2021-06-24 at 06:26 AM.

  5. #145
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    68,850
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    Similarly people use "melting of polar ice caps" to confuse the melting of the Artic (which is happening) with the melting of Antarctica (which would be problematic if it happens, but that's hundreds or thousands of years in the future).
    Nitpick; melting in Antarctica is increasing. I believe the most recent data till has deposition outpacing melting, but the Antarctic icecap has been the result of millions of years of deposition outpacing melting. And once that balance tips, it's "only" going to take centuries for it to vanish. And we're on the cusp of that; it's likely the underlying balance has already tipped, and melting simply hasn't increased sufficiently to outpace deposition yet.

    That point being passed is something that could happen basically any time now.


  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Nitpick; melting in Antarctica is increasing. I believe the most recent data till has deposition outpacing melting, but the Antarctic icecap has been the result of millions of years of deposition outpacing melting. And once that balance tips, it's "only" going to take centuries for it to vanish. And we're on the cusp of that; it's likely the underlying balance has already tipped, and melting simply hasn't increased sufficiently to outpace deposition yet.
    That seems unlikely to be that fast, as east Antarctica seem to take a long time to melt.

    It took me some time to find someone who had studied it, but - https://www.nature.com/articles/nature17145.epdf "Contribution of Antarctica to past and future sea-level rise" has some reliable data - and even in the "worst case" RCP8.5 the sea level rise after 400 years is "just" 13+/-3 m; and peaks at 20 m in the year 3500; whereas if everything melted (including Greenland - which is included already in 13 m) it would be 80 m.

    However, there are obviously uncertainties (including what we will do so far in the future).

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    But it's not a strip-mine.

    People often incorrectly use strip-mining for all kinds of surface mining, since it sounds bad. Note that one reason Homestake is not being restored is that it is converted to a science center (primarily solar neutrinos, yes actual science), and it seems that Homestake isn't even a surface mine - as there are a number of deep underground tunnels.

    Similarly people use "melting of polar ice caps" to confuse the melting of the Artic (which is happening) with the melting of Antarctica (which would be problematic if it happens, but that's hundreds or thousands of years in the future).
    A mine can be both a strip mine and an underground mine.

  8. #148
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    68,850
    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    A mine can be both a strip mine and an underground mine.
    That would be two separate techniques being used.

    Regardless, Homestake isn't a strip mine in any part whatsoever. It's a pit mine. They're two different surface mining techniques.


  9. #149
    Keyboard Turner
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Location
    Dubai
    Posts
    8
    One of the major issues in the world. Everyone should take a precautionary step against this issue. We car battery replacement Dubai team have posted awareness boards and hoardings at our office.
    Last edited by jamieson; 2021-07-01 at 09:56 AM.

  10. #150
    Hundreds of deaths could be linked to Northwest heat wave

    The grim toll of the historic heat wave in the Pacific Northwest became more apparent as authorities in Canada, Oregon and Washington state said Wednesday they were investigating hundreds of deaths likely caused by scorching temperatures that shattered all-time records in the normally temperate region.

    British Columbia’s chief coroner, Lisa Lapointe, said her office received reports of at least 486 “sudden and unexpected deaths” between Friday and Wednesday. Normally, she said about 165 people would die in the Canadian province over a five-day period.

    Many homes in Vancouver, much like Seattle, don’t have air conditioning, leaving people ill-prepared for soaring temperatures.

    “Vancouver has never experienced heat like this, and sadly dozens of people are dying because of it,” Vancouver police Sgt. Steve Addison said in a statement.


    -------

    Months earlier the southwest froze over killing dozens, and now the northwest cooks... Grim symmetry.

  11. #151
    I think a fundamental problem with the discussions around climate change is that so many people simply do not understand how averages work.

    The global average temperature is about 16C.

    Give or take 1 degree doesn't sound like much, but it can literally mean a 10C annual regional temperature variation in places where most human beings live. While you might be able to live and cultivate stuff at 41C, it's going to be a hard no at 51C.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    It doesnt destroy the land to bury styrofoam 25 feet below the ground
    Today Obama once again kneeled at the altar of environmental naziism and hurt this once great country. He has now banned all drilling in the Atlantic Ocean

  12. #152
    I think global warming is still a long, long way off.
    But it is still necessary to protect our nature.

  13. #153
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    68,850
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    I think a fundamental problem with the discussions around climate change is that so many people simply do not understand how averages work.

    The global average temperature is about 16C.

    Give or take 1 degree doesn't sound like much, but it can literally mean a 10C annual regional temperature variation in places where most human beings live. While you might be able to live and cultivate stuff at 41C, it's going to be a hard no at 51C.
    Which isn't even hyperbole; a Canadian town just hit 49.6C on Tuesday. Lytton, BC. That's a record for anywhere in Canada, and it's a record by 4.6C; the last highest temperature was in Saskatchewan at 45C.

    It's those highs and lows that getcha. The summer "average" might be only a few degrees higher, but spikes like that are deadly. Not just to people, but to plants and wildlife.

    Quote Originally Posted by cjlab9ihih View Post
    I think global warming is still a long, long way off.
    But it is still necessary to protect our nature.
    Then you're not paying attention, because it's been observable for going on 30 years now.


  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Or, and here is a possibility, we just build an alternative means of power generation that basically churns out a fuck ton of borderline free electricity and doesn't require oil. So, you know, nuclear power.

    Build carbon capture towers for the rest and maybe not tell all the kids they are doomed from the start.
    We could stop all emissions, replace the entire energy grid with nuclear and alternative energy and create tons of carbon capture towers, but none of that will bring back the thermohaline cycle. The damage is done and we have to wait for it to stabilize itself.

  15. #155
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    68,850
    Quote Originally Posted by wunksta View Post
    We could stop all emissions, replace the entire energy grid with nuclear and alternative energy and create tons of carbon capture towers, but none of that will bring back the thermohaline cycle. The damage is done and we have to wait for it to stabilize itself.
    In theory, we can utilize carbon-sink technologies to pull carbon back out of the atmosphere.

    But we're talking an investment on the order of tens of trillions of dollars, with pretty much zero chance of direct benefit; pretty much all the benefits will be shared by future generations of the planet, not those investing the money.

    So while it's "technically possible", I'm not holding my breath while I wait.


  16. #156
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    the Quiet Room
    Posts
    31,933
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    In theory, we can utilize carbon-sink technologies to pull carbon back out of the atmosphere.

    But we're talking an investment on the order of tens of trillions of dollars, with pretty much zero chance of direct benefit; pretty much all the benefits will be shared by future generations of the planet, not those investing the money.

    So while it's "technically possible", I'm not holding my breath while I wait.
    And that's the heart of the problem - any moneys invested will not benefit those that invest. I read a book where in a fictional world the U.N. created an agency that delved into the idea of a 7-generation plan, wherein every action taken much take into consideration the next 7 generations of the planet. And using that, after a very tumultuous start, and a major disaster in a developing country, the world started to eliminate those industries that produced the most carbon (production, air travel) while at the same time building $10B+ structures that would re-ice glaciers and start pulling carbon out of the air.

    Unfortunately, we currently live in a world where science denial is a political party, and the ability to change one's mind is frowned upon - all based on cult-like devotion to people who can't think past the next week, much less consider a future generation.

    The book posited that only dramatic and violent action would turn the tide and wake people up.

  17. #157
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    NorCal
    Posts
    24,165
    Quote Originally Posted by wunksta View Post
    We could stop all emissions, replace the entire energy grid with nuclear and alternative energy and create tons of carbon capture towers, but none of that will bring back the thermohaline cycle. The damage is done and we have to wait for it to stabilize itself.
    Well, we could just you know, do absolutely nothing.

    I'm saying if we start right god damn now to expunge the need for oil or petrol-chemicals in the power generation process and start building carbon sinks it gives us something to do rather than twiddle our thumbs and wait for death.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  18. #158
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Rigging your election
    Posts
    34,184
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    Is it scary and frightening? No, it shouldn't scare us because the idea that global warming cannot be reversed is pseudo-scientific nonsense. There's only so much GHGs that can be released and there would have to be an unlimited amount of energy and new GHGs to sustain a warming trend indefinitely. What will actually happen is it'll peak in the future and then the globe will cool as more GHGs leave the atmosphere as we reduce emissions by finding superior alternatives to current methods.

    Things will always change a bit in the future but the idea that it must always get worse and not better is inaccurate.
    "There's only so much GHGs that can be released"

    The earth's atmosphere was unlivable by modern beings a long time ago. It was extremely hot (not quite boiling point) with hot seas, and filled with carbon dioxide. The earliest life used CO2 as part of their nutrition, and eventually evolved chloroplasts to use it even more efficiently. The carbon was used by said ocean beings and as they died, they took the CO2 (now in the form of carbonate deposits) with them and settled on the ocean floor and were eventually buried.

    Over the 2.5ish billion years that life existed on earth, it continued to sequester carbon into the strata, until the atmosphere was mild enough and had enough oxygen to support land animals and plants.

    Humans are releasing all of that carbon back into the atmosphere by drilling for oil and coal (the deposits of dead bodies of micro organisms) and burning it into CO2 into the air.

    There is NO LIMIT to the amount of GHG we can release, unless you mean the limit is how much organic matter we can dig up and burn. But once we've dug up and burned all of the organic matter, it will be too late anyway. The carbon in the atmosphere will push the overall oxygen content too low. It will be 150F at the poles. In a few thousand years, when the last vestiges of humanity are about to die out, they'll curse the absolute dumbasses that spent 100 years sending CO2 into the atmosphere.

    But no, you don't care about the future. Anything that doesn't affect you and will happen after you're dead doesn't matter.

    I realize some humans don't really feel the biological imperative to continue the species. Most humans want to breed and create a good world for their future offspring. But it amazes me that some people actually want to kill off the human race in the future because "it doesn't affect them."
    "Nazis are like cats. If they like you, it's probably because you're feeding them." -John Oliver
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    I don't care if he committed tax fraud. Scoring political victories and crushing the aspirations of your political opponents is more important than adhering to moral principles.
    Knadra finally just admitting Trumpkins care more about political victories than morals.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    And that's the heart of the problem - any moneys invested will not benefit those that invest. I read a book where in a fictional world the U.N. created an agency that delved into the idea of a 7-generation plan, wherein every action taken much take into consideration the next 7 generations of the planet. And using that, after a very tumultuous start, and a major disaster in a developing country, the world started to eliminate those industries that produced the most carbon (production, air travel) while at the same time building $10B+ structures that would re-ice glaciers and start pulling carbon out of the air.

    Unfortunately, we currently live in a world where science denial is a political party, and the ability to change one's mind is frowned upon - all based on cult-like devotion to people who can't think past the next week, much less consider a future generation.

    The book posited that only dramatic and violent action would turn the tide and wake people up.
    That was apparently an Iroquois principle, a concept I wish we'd fold into our culture though of course it isn't very likely. One of the downsides of perceiving ourselves more as individuals than as a culture/nation/species.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    In theory, we can utilize carbon-sink technologies to pull carbon back out of the atmosphere.
    I personally, just based on existing literature, believe that we are past the tipping point, way past. While everyone is concerned about the ice caps and such (for good reason) I have been keeping a closer eye on the Siberian Arctic.

    Siberia has been on fire for 2 years now. And I don't just mean on fire in the sense of "there have been a lot of fires the past 2 years". I mean on fire in the sense that wildfires have been burning since 2020 and they haven't stopped burning through the winter as there hasn't been any meaningful precipitation or low temperatures to stop the permafrost from burning, so it smoldered throughout the winter. Siberia has been experiencing +30C temperatures since May.

    https://www.livescience.com/russia-w...ason-2021.html
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ern-europe-too

    It's all grand to be talking about carbon capture and whatnot, but the melting permafrost in Siberia is pumping methane and carbon into the atmosphere at an accelerating rate. There's more methane and carbon bound in the Arctic permafrost by orders of magnitude than what humans have so far managed to pump into the atmosphere.

    When all that shit gets released (and it is being released at an ever accelerating rate) then we will be properly fucked. And that's not a genie we can put back in the bottle no matter how much we are willing to invest into carbon capture and whatnot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    It doesnt destroy the land to bury styrofoam 25 feet below the ground
    Today Obama once again kneeled at the altar of environmental naziism and hurt this once great country. He has now banned all drilling in the Atlantic Ocean

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •