Rae'shalare, Death's Whisper

[username993720]

you need more than that? what are you? blizzard game designer? get a hold on yourself

you are being like a flat earth believer, saying necromancer is just a death knight is just like saying a priest is a paladin, they are blatantly the same

And why not a plate/mail wearing mele mage? your temptative of rebutal was so low that you didn't realize all of those are completely doable, by example the idea of things like eldritch knight, battle mage or variants are very common, you are just too shortsighed and think that if something does not fit your view it can't be possible.

I didn't say a necromancer is a Death Knight. I said it was integrated into it, so you better come up with a good concept for Necromancers if you want them playable.

These archetypes might exist, but Blizzard doesn't just add whatever is around.

[Syegfryed]

I didn't say a necromancer is a Death Knight. I said it was integrated into it, so you better come up with a good concept for Necromancers if you want them playable.

These archetypes might exist, but Blizzard doesn't just add whatever is around.

If they aren't, it already puts down your argument.

i don't have to come with shit because:

One: because it is you, we already passed trough this countless of times in other threads with you using circular logic and ignoring any argument that you don't like, so, anything said it is pointless
Two: I am not a game designer working for blizzard, don't try to act like you are one and you are somehow filtering ideas, the amount of hubris you have is astonishing.

[Ielenia]

That kinda butchers the Necromancer class. "How about raising undead?" "no, it's already in the Death Knight". "How about using plague and death?" "nah, it's already in the Death Knight". What are you left with in the end? or, do you really expect them to take it out of the Death Knight for a Necromancer class. The question then will be "what will the Death Knight be left with?". In comparison to the Demon Hunter being in the Warlock, it isn't just a matter of a few abilities that were pushed by an enthusiastic dev, but a rather collective agreement that the Death Knights fills aspects of the Necromancer.

If you refuse (or are unable) to give some thought and apply some imagination, that is not my fault, nor my concern. Classes can heavily share themes. After all, we have priests and paladins, don't we? Nothing needs to be "removed" from the death knight class.

-_-

Why are you repeating it after i said that they are not relevant to the discussion?
We are not talking about mechanically similar, because many classes and specs overlap. The pet/minion equivalence is not the issue. It's repeating the theme of undeath and how it differs from the Death Knight.

You were the one that specifically mentioned "mechanics". Again: classes can and do heavily share themes. Paladins and priests, shamans and monks, etc.

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They're not.

Actually...

"An adaptive ranger who favors using explosives, animal venom, and coordinated attacks with their bonded beast. Preferred Weapon: Polearm, Staff"

[Powerogue]

Do you think this is a sign of dark rangers coming at some point? maybe not this expansion.

Or do you think its just something to give us because she is a raidboss and will ofcourse drop her weapon upon being killed. I think its a pretty cool drop and it does look pretty wicked

https://ptr.wowhead.com/item=186414/...per?bonus=6805

I mean, probably that. Illidan dropped warglaives in BC. That didn't indicate, at least at the time, demon hunters.

[Alkizon]

Actually...

Actually... you read "it" still ignored all the rest from this message I'm not interested in Legion's ravings (your quote is just devs' shame):

I'm looking on class' originals, which is base/core of design, I don't care about delirium stuff that they put in after their roof was blown away.

It's unclear why you even decided to answer this without understanding and remembering our debate about approach to class design... mm, did you forget?

So - no, they're not.
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in worse case it's just combustible/sharply flammable "handy material" that can be found in nature in aggregation state, but still not that "explosives" which my opponent "insists" on, it's not their mechanics - no bombs/mines/rockets/grenades whatever else devs' sick consciousness can unexpectedly spawn here

[Revamp Man]

I would enjoy it
Personally I have problems getting into my hunter for leveling

[C20]

Rangers and Hunters are typically 2 different archetypes that both happen to use bows.

Hunters (or trackers) typically use pets to stalk their targets, or to guide their targets into traps. They are proficient with melee weapons, but will use ranged weapons when needed.

Rangers are typically very agile, and accuracy with a bow is their speciality. They don't often use traps, nor do they have pets.

A dark ranger is like a ranger, except they also wield additional magical powers which they can imbue into their arrows and also use as a means of evasion or closing distance (e.g. changing into a smoke-like form for a short time to allow them to move to a new location quickly).

A hunter would be your typical BM or SV specs in WoW. A ranger would be MM.

A dark ranger doesn't deserve its own class, but it could definitely be a spec. Maybe it's time we had another class with 4 specs. The other option would require splitting Hunter into Hunter and Ranger types, but then you end up with an overlap, and certain aspects of the Hunter archetype may not work well for WoW if they were a class on their own.

[username993720]

If they aren't, it already puts down your argument.

i don't have to come with shit because:

One: because it is you, we already passed trough this countless of times in other threads with you using circular logic and ignoring any argument that you don't like, so, anything said it is pointless
Two: I am not a game designer working for blizzard, don't try to act like you are one and you are somehow filtering ideas, the amount of hubris you have is astonishing.

We have plenty of archetypes out there. Not all will be added. You need to know how to filter the ones that do and the ones that don't.

If you refuse (or are unable) to give some thought and apply some imagination, that is not my fault, nor my concern. Classes can heavily share themes. After all, we have priests and paladins, don't we? Nothing needs to be "removed" from the death knight class.

True. Though, Priests have the Void which completely lacks from the Paladin. What would a Necromancer have?

You were the one that specifically mentioned "mechanics". Again: classes can and do heavily share themes. Paladins and priests, shamans and monks, etc.

No, i didn't. It was the other guy. I just tried to clarify what he meant.

Again, how do you differentiate it enough to justify its addition?

A dark ranger doesn't deserve its own class, but it could definitely be a spec. Maybe it's time we had another class with 4 specs. The other option would require splitting Hunter into Hunter and Ranger types, but then you end up with an overlap, and certain aspects of the Hunter archetype may not work well for WoW if they were a class on their own.

Actually, it does. If you just remove archery from the Hunter. They can combine it with the Warden and Night Warrior.

[C20]

Actually, it does. If you just remove archery from the Hunter. They can combine it with the Warden and Night Warrior.

So you propose adding 2 additional classes and removing a spec, just to enable to Dark Ranger to exist?

Not gonna lie, but that just sounds like a big stretch with extra steps.

[Krakan]

The irony is hunters are so brutally weak next tier that unless they get major emergency buffs they wont be seen in raiding to get their leggo.

[Ielenia]

Actually... you read "it" still ignored all the rest from this message I'm not interested in Legion's ravings (your quote is just devs' shame):
It's unclear why you even decided to answer this without understanding and remembering our debate about approach to class design... mm, did you forget?

So - no, they're not.
- - - -
in worse case it's just combustible/sharply flammable "handy material" that can be found in nature in aggregation state, but still not that "explosives" which my opponent "insists" on, it's not their mechanics - no bombs/mines/rockets/grenades whatever else devs' sick consciousness can unexpectedly spawn here

You do know that "core of design" change with the times, right? The game itself (and, by proxy, the classes) are not static, "written in stone" kind of thing. They evolve. And the hunter's survival spec is no longer what it used to be in 2004, so pointing at the game book from 2004 to use as an indicative of what the spec is today is fallacious. It doesn't matter what the spec "used to be" over a decade and a half ago. It matters what the spec is today when we're discussing matters about today and the future.

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True. Though, Priests have the Void which completely lacks from the Paladin. What would a Necromancer have?

Again, I'll refer back to what I wrote before: if you cannot or do not want to use a modicum of imagination, that is not my fault, nor my concern.

For someone with a signature that begs mods to read it before infracting you, you sure don't spend too much time checking other people's signatures, do you?

Again, how do you differentiate it enough to justify its addition?

Read above.

[Evaddon]

Highly unlikely. Shadow Hunters have nothing to do with them. Necromancers are already said by Blizzard to be integrated into the Death Knight.

If anything, they would combine it with the Warden (Dark Wardens in BfA) and Night Warrior (another dark ranged archetype).

Its almost like you commented and didn't even read my post

IF they're going to add a new class this is the most likely route as these classes can only exist as a combination of the three rather then separate classes, as elements of them separately exist through current class/specs

I think its more likely then whatever nonsense you're sprouting about a Dark Warden/Night Warrior based class. But will see. Anything can happen.

[Compher]

The irony is hunters are so brutally weak next tier that unless they get major emergency buffs they wont be seen in raiding to get their leggo.

According to warcraftlogs, every spec has killed mythic sire, even "brutally weak" ones such as arcane mage, sub rogue, survival hunter. I find it hard to believe that hunters "won't be seen in raiding".

[Alkizon]

It doesn't matter what the spec "used to be"

True, because it's important only what class "used to be", and their modern specs can go to hell

Anyway, with such reasoning, we'll go on second round of discussion of what we have already done. No, thanks, we have already gone through this, I don’t want to explain why "crooked mirrors" can't replace traditional ones as an adequate functionally full-fledged element. I can only repeat once again that I'm not going to put up/close my eyes to devs dementia, this is my principled position, so incident is over, in any case, you understand my point of view (why "no, it's not", what actually hooked you), but me, on my own side, don't interest much that you have different "civil" position, I'm fully correct in my interpretation, so lets end on this. In any case, this offtopic has dragged on again.

Read it like this: today implementation of classes is crap, so for everything to work correctly, they need to return to square one, then stuff will start to return to normal.

[username993720]

So you propose adding 2 additional classes and removing a spec, just to enable to Dark Ranger to exist?

Not gonna lie, but that just sounds like a big stretch with extra steps.

No.
First, they would all be in a single class.
Secondly, removing archery doesn't remove a spec. MM would still remain a Sharpshooter.

You do know that "core of design" change with the times, right? The game itself (and, by proxy, the classes) are not static, "written in stone" kind of thing. They evolve. And the hunter's survival spec is no longer what it used to be in 2004, so pointing at the game book from 2004 to use as an indicative of what the spec is today is fallacious. It doesn't matter what the spec "used to be" over a decade and a half ago. It matters what the spec is today when we're discussing matters about today and the future.

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Again, I'll refer back to what I wrote before: if you cannot or do not want to use a modicum of imagination, that is not my fault, nor my concern.

For someone with a signature that begs mods to read it before infracting you, you sure don't spend too much time checking other people's signatures, do you?


Read above.

Blood and Bone are already parts of the Death Knight. While Blood doesn't heal allies, it does heal the caster. Poison is the only original part. Though, it can be part of the Shadow Hunter, as Witch Doctors in D3 use poison.

[Krakan]

According to warcraftlogs, every spec has killed mythic sire, even "brutally weak" ones such as arcane mage, sub rogue, survival hunter. I find it hard to believe that hunters "won't be seen in raiding".

Meme kills for logs and paid carries are a thing. Lotta those specs are double digit populations...

[Nnyco]

Ye you get dark ranger, just like we had dragonborn class after we had terecgosa... wait...

[Revamp Man]

Meme kills for logs and paid carries are a thing. Lotta those specs are double digit populations...

Hunters will always have a slot
Immunity
CC
Cast while moving

Unless you are talking about purely WF raiders in which case you can look it up by just seeing how many they have capped in the guild

[Krakan]

Hunters will always have a slot
Immunity
CC
Cast while moving

Unless you are talking about purely WF raiders in which case you can look it up by just seeing how many they have capped in the guild

Was referring to mythic. There will be some but it's a uphill battle atm unless there is some rather major balance changes.

[Revamp Man]

Was referring to mythic. There will be some but it's a uphill battle atm unless there is some rather major balance changes.

I mean you’ll be stacking immunities on Sylvanas
BM is scuffed on one of the fights
MM won’t be big enough to push numbers needed

But for guilds outside of top 50 it will be ok