Flying really does make the world lose any sense of danger

[bigbleach]

TBC is my favorite WoW expansion by far but I'm definitely one of those people that now contend flying is one of the worst things ever added o the game.

I get why people like it and enjoy it but, it also really destroys the feel of the world.

I'm now in Shadowmoon Valley, all these big scary fortresses with hundreds of elite guards and barricades and towers.... LOL jk just fly directly over them none of the monsters seem to notice or care.

Land in the middle of their fortress, kill the boss, fly out.

What's the point of building a big outdoor fortress with thousands of elite guards if anybody can just zip in? Flying really does destroy the "feel" of the world. It's just way too safe and way too convenient and way too solitary.

I really think they could have done a better job implementing a much more limited flying system, one that gives you some of the pros without all the cons.

I realized the very same thing the first time i unlocked flying. How easy it made doing quests, because those quests were not designed with that in mind. They never really went about a way of fixing this without outright placing it on hold, which still causes the same issue once its released.

they could make flying work from the start of all the expacs. Just like how they did some stupid ass debuff to remove you from the maw, they could very easily have a mechanic that shoots you down, dismounts you and places a CD on your mount, etc. Something. While in questing areas to stop that. Don't make it a cheesable debuff by giving 3 seconds and landing at 1 to refresh it. They could have flying patrols like in SW and Org that molest you if they get you. Mobs could have a much, much higher aggro radius and would cast a spell, regardless of the humanoid enemy type, to dismount you and all mobs aggroed come. Discourage use of it in those areas. Mobs could be more aware to a loud flying beast. Idk.

[MiiiMiii]

Also very fun when you are leveling and some 70 with epic flying just flys above you to corpse camp you.

[Mardux]

Well said. Flying takes the rpg out of it for most circumstances as well.

So RP(G) as someone who doesn't use flying mounts in the air. Or RP as someone who doesn't use flying mounts. I don't understand people's need to act like blizzard removed your ability to use mounts on the ground instead of wasting time running on the ground.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, that's part of the problem. Same goes for PvP. I can hover above the ground on a flying chicken surrounded by dozens of enemy players on their menacing dragons and what not, and they can't even slap me. WoW flying is a very lazy design; it's just a convenience system, nothing more (that does break immersion on some occasions), while it could be so much more. But they won't do anything with it, because that's how many players love it - the only purpose of flying is, for them, to complete the quest faster.

And the only reason to remove (you can say claim you want it changed but i'll believe that when i start believing blizzard isnt in it just for the money) it is to hinder other players.

[Kokolums]

Maybe Blizzard could do something like "flight points". You can fly in and land anywhere as usual. But once you dismount, you cannot mount up on your flying mount again until you reach a designated "flight point". So there is still danger and terrain issues, but you get flying.

Or if it was me, I'd tie it to social. When you get LFG satchels, there is a chance the satchel contains a feather that grants you the ability to mount up on your flying mount anywhere for the rest of the week until reset when consumed. Otherwise, you need to hunt for "flight points".

[Kralljin]

But flight paths allow you to just fly over everything and ignore the ground. Obviously this is a bad thing and we should remove it.

Okay, let's engage this rather dumbass argument.

In Classic (TBC), almost every flightpath is between towns, which are located near roads, roads are generally devoid of mobs and you rarely encounter any mobs on the road, thus travelling between towns on roads is most of time completely risk free.

This is not compareable with the ability to completely fly over an enemy camp (thus bypassing a lot of enemies), landing at a safe location within the camp and cherrypick the mob you want to kill.

The ability to fly at any location allows you to bypass elements that were designed to block the player, whereas flightpaths simply provide some basic QoL in a game that is, especially by modern standards, notoriously devoid of such things.

This like saying "too much selfhealing homogenized classes" and someone else responding with "Oh, should we then take out ALL healing spells?".

So RP(G) as someone who doesn't use flying mounts in the air. Or RP as someone who doesn't use flying mounts. I don't understand people's need to act like blizzard removed your ability to use mounts on the ground instead of wasting time running on the ground.

The ability to take out a leader of a camp by just bypassing every single guard that is there to, among other things, protect the leader is a bit silly in my eyes.

Like, the argument made here is obvious for anyone willing to process it, yet making this about "oh, you should just RP as someone that doesn't want to use flying mounts!" is stupid.

[Utrrabbit]

Did dungeons for the quests alone, hit 70 3-4 quests into netherstorm.

You still did dungeons. Period. Do not touch them them at all while lvling and you will not hit 70. You can also go to those zones at 68. Nothing is stopping you.

[thunderdragon2]

Blizzard don't admit it, but it's definitely part of reason, why flying is removed. But WPVP falls into same category "If you like it, then you should be seeking for it, instead of avoiding it". If players try to avoid WPVP, then they don't like it in a first place and shouldn't be forced into it to be used as "food" for WPVPers. It's major problem with WPVP. Everybody wants to be hunter and nobody wants to be prey. Players have to be "tricked" into WPVP situations via PVE objectives. And I don't think, that it's right approach. That's why I hated BFA despite of fact, that overall this xpack wasn't that bad. But I agree, that since we have WM, players, who don't want to participate WPVP, can easily avoid it - flying isn't needed for it. Therefore I agree, that flying can be disabled in WM, because WPVP is only reason for WM's existence.

disabling wpvp doesn't exist in tbc, when it was current i played on a pvp server because of family and friends

[Mendzia]

I agree with that.
I love TBC as my fav xpack but i'd insta delete flying from the game.

[GhostShaman]

When they started timegating flying in later expansions, all I wanted to do was fly when I dinged max level. I hope they #change it if those expansions get re released.

Honestly this time gate bullshit is the reason I'm not buying the next expac. I have a real love/hate relationship with this game, and mostly because of the decisions towards flying and gated content. I cant do it anymore.

I want to see a TBC/Wrath type of expac, or Im not buying.

[scubi666stacy]

This game has more than enough tedious tasks. But you want tedious travel on top?
As soon as you get some decent gear, the world is not dangerous anymore. Its only boring and wasting your time.
There is a reason why movies and books skip things which are not important.

- - - Updated - - -

Imagine being endangered by world mobs at max level in TBC to begin with.

Exactly this.

- - - Updated - - -

The way they design zones these days is why flying is so needed.. they are so convoluted for ground mounts by design I am pretty sure

Of course. This way you can get people to spend more time travelling while keeping the zones smaller as they could be.

[bryroo]

Don't like covenants? Just don't use the conduits.

Don't like Azerite armour? Just don't equip any

Don't like random gear? Just don't use it

Don't like how a certain part of your class plays? Just don't use these abilities.


Do you understand how absurd your statement is yet,or should I continue?

Please explain travel time affects your damage and healing like gear and covenants do.

You know. Nevermind. Continue making terrible counterpoints.

Flying isn't going anywhere and the best non-flying zone Blizzard can design is the fucking Maw. Enjoy your crusade.

[Rageonit]

There is a reason why movies and books skip things which are not important.

Wonder then why some people enjoy chopping wood for hours in Minecraft.

[Army Dreamer]

You don't like flying? Don't fly!
/shrug

[Mokrath]

Stop mistaking tediousness for challenge.

This sums up the entire mindset of "Classic is harder than retail!" for me.

[Noxina]

I agree that it is the single worst addition to this game. Killed off the whole WORLD of warcraft feeling.


But damn it's nice to just zoom to where you need to go and be done with it. If they never implemented it it would have been amazing, just make some faster ground mounts etc. But because they did actually give us flight, there is no way back.


What they could have done, and perhaps should have done, is make more flying threats. You fly over this fortress of elites, why on earth is there no flying guards? Why isn't there cannons or arches to shoot at you as you zoom past?

[Berndorf]

The game would be so much better if flying were removed and players had to walk at 30% of current run speed. So much danger. So much fun. Also, every zone should have around a dozen fel reavers walking around in it.

[thunderdragon2]

The game would be so much better if flying were removed and players had to walk at 30% of current run speed. So much danger. So much fun. Also, every zone should have around a dozen fel reavers walking around in it.

go play ff or wildstar and leave us alone, wow dosen't need that sort of tediousness

[Hctaz]

Flying is only unlocked when you've already won the outdoor game. I don't want to have to progress through a game I've already beaten.

You haven't "beaten the game" if you haven't done all of the quests already. Plus there are certain questlines and things you can only do when you're level 70.

Flying takes the progression of getting stronger slowly with upgrades and tosses it completely out the window.

[Berndorf]

go play ff or wildstar and leave us alone, wow dosen't need that sort of tediousness

The more tedious the funner.

[Hctaz]

I still think it's one of the best things ever added to the game, i still remember unlocking my netherdrakes fondly, and still love them.

However i do agree that the implementation as-is is very lacking,and not at all in line with the way it was originally presented (which was more akin to the vehicles system later added jn WotLK).

It seems to me like they just gave up on it around cataclysm, sadly enough. I've dedicated an entire thread to various proposals for fixing it.

But that said: to experience the world in flight, that is still one of the best additions WoW has ever had, in spite of all its shortcomings.

From the perspective of exploration, flying is amazing. Being able to see a rock floating out in space and not have to merely wonder what could possibly be on that rock is pretty cool. You can just fly there and find out yourself! From the perspective of actual gameplay, however, it really sucks.

I think that's why it's always been so divisive. You have people who enjoy the freedom of exploration that comes with flying, the people who are upset that it removes any feeling of danger that the world has, and the people who are excited/happy that it removes the feeling of danger because they just want to be able to cruise through the outdoor content. The reason for all the fighting, then, is because every group is right in their own way, and removing flying or adding flying is going to adversely affect a group of people. It'd be like if Paladins were OP and were immune to nerfs so they decided to remove Paladins.