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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by oldgeezer View Post
    The biggest mistake the developers made with the game was the removal of the ability to use ground mounts when flying is enabled.
    they never removed that, it's still in the game, people just want something to while about, if you don't want to fly don't it's that simple

  2. #162
    So dont fly? like, just dont do it... if you dont like something why do it? why even train it? I guess the one place i can think of that you NEED flying is the netherstorm dungeons... but maybe only use your flying mount to get to them?

    But if your objective here is "i dont like a thing, so no one should" get fucked.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaqwert View Post
    TBC is my favorite WoW expansion by far but I'm definitely one of those people that now contend flying is one of the worst things ever added o the game.

    I get why people like it and enjoy it but, it also really destroys the feel of the world.

    I'm now in Shadowmoon Valley, all these big scary fortresses with hundreds of elite guards and barricades and towers.... LOL jk just fly directly over them none of the monsters seem to notice or care.

    Land in the middle of their fortress, kill the boss, fly out.

    What's the point of building a big outdoor fortress with thousands of elite guards if anybody can just zip in? Flying really does destroy the "feel" of the world. It's just way too safe and way too convenient and way too solitary.

    I really think they could have done a better job implementing a much more limited flying system, one that gives you some of the pros without all the cons.
    Before flying I would just stealth somewhere, or run there and vanish/feign death/invisible/shadowmeld, etc... same difference. And flying in or any of those are not 100% useful for then getting back out if you are in combat, on cooldown, or in a no mount area.

    Many things can be done to avoid "playing the game", don't just pick on flying.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    Easy solution: Blizzard makes a 'No Flying' server, and offer people a free 1 time transfer to it if they so desire. Anyone that wants to experience the game without flying can play there without the temptation of flying. Problem solved and everyone's happy.
    They 100% should do that.

    Let's see how full the server becomes, and how many of the anti-flying peeps would ACTUALLY bother going there.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    They 100% should do that.

    Let's see how full the server becomes, and how many of the anti-flying peeps would ACTUALLY bother going there.
    8. Eight people would play there at most. Considering they are asking for entire sections of the map, a raid, and some dungeons to all be completely inaccessible, they really don't even know what they want anymore.

    I have not seen a single complaint about flying in game - no one cares, everyone is just enjoying the game. If someone is so passionately against flying at this point, they have 2 options - play vanilla classic with the other 11 people who stayed there, or walk away, because flying is in both versions of the game now, and it's never going away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uopayroll View Post
    Before flying I would just stealth somewhere, or run there and vanish/feign death/invisible/shadowmeld, etc... same difference. And flying in or any of those are not 100% useful for then getting back out if you are in combat, on cooldown, or in a no mount area.

    Many things can be done to avoid "playing the game", don't just pick on flying.
    Yup, these always get brought up in every one of these threads. Teleports, portals, lock summons, summoning stones, hearthstones, flight points, ships, stealth, vanish, FD, heroic leap, and on, and on, and on. There are countless systems in the game either designed to, or allowing large skips of content, it's literally part of the game to skip parts of the game.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    I find this a pretty stupid concept because TBC is to some extent designed around flying.

    When you compare the zone design of Classic and TBC, you'll quickly notice that Classic rarely has any hills / mountains to climb that aren't easily accessible in the middle of a zone, neither does it have deep gorges like in Nagrand, which are a big pain to get out of without flying.

    The TBC zones, at least geographically, are very much designed around flying, that's why you have a zone such as Blade edge's with its multiple plateaus, Nagrand with its Gorges and huge Lakes, Netherstorm with its multiple "islands", etc..
    Sure, you can traverse them without flying, but one can't deny the massive advantage flying grants within a zone (putting the mountain ranges seperating each zone aside) in TBC.

    The Classic zones, for the most part, are relatively even surfaces surrounded by a mountain range, there are rarely geographical features right in the center of a zone that are a massive hassle to get around.
    Noteable exception is Azshara, but that's ironically one of the least relevant zones in all of Classic.

    And that's not even addressing the elephant in the room, which is content that flat out does not work without flying in TBC, installing teleporters / flightpoint to areas that cannot be reached without flying don't work that well.
    I'm not disagreeing. But considering that we're both in a thread where there are people that seem to want a game without flying, there does exist some group of people that are interested in the concept.

    I'm honestly curious as to how large that group of people is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    They 100% should do that.

    Let's see how full the server becomes, and how many of the anti-flying peeps would ACTUALLY bother going there.
    I think it would be fun to see and would certainly offer people who don't like a flying a viable solution to the issue without affecting everyone else.

    I would honestly be surprised if such a server saw high adoption. I don't think that there are enough people truly interested in the notion to adequately populate such a thing, but I am more than willing to admit that I could be completely wrong on that point.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Personally, i think you yourself repeated the most stupid argument.

    I think it's again pretty obvious what "competitive" in this context means, when someone farms 200g/h with epic flying, you can figure how much someone who sticks to their ground mount will make.
    Which naturally puts anyone not willing to use a flying mount at a massive disadvantage as they have to spend a lot more time to acquire the same amount of gold.

    When certain sections of the game are frankly designed around a given feature, then the argument "don't use it" is just plain stupid.
    Putting aside that when you don't use flying in TBC, you literally close off certain sections of TBC content for you, because certain areas can only be accessed with flying.
    Except the ground mount guy is 31 hours ahead because they didn't spend 6200g on flying. While Mr Epic Flying is farming, Gordon Groundie is buying gear off the AH. Looks like Gordon Groundie is winning.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Hctaz View Post
    Bruh. "beating the game" is clearing the raids, my man.
    And then once Wrath drops, you don't beat the game until you get every achievement!!!!!!!!!!1

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    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    Except the ground mount guy is 31 hours ahead because they didn't spend 6200g on flying. While Mr Epic Flying is farming, Gordon Groundie is buying gear off the AH. Looks like Gordon Groundie is winning.
    Yeah, that's why college is dumb! Why pay so much money when you can just work at an Amazon center for $19/hour! No one ever became rich by paying a bunch of money up front! Investments are for losers!

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    And then once Wrath drops, you don't beat the game until you get every achievement!!!!!!!!!!1

    No, as per the quoted post, that would be considered "completing the game."

    "Beating the game" is when you finish all of the main content. "Completing" is when you finish all of the side content. Read that quoted post.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Hctaz View Post
    No, as per the quoted post, that would be considered "completing the game."

    "Beating the game" is when you finish all of the main content. "Completing" is when you finish all of the side content. Read that quoted post.
    The point is that there is no such thing as 'beating' WoW. Many people consider different things 'beating.'

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by oldgeezer View Post
    The biggest mistake the developers made with the game was the removal of the ability to use ground mounts when flying is enabled.
    This is not true for both classic and retail.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    The point is that there is no such thing as 'beating' WoW. Many people consider different things 'beating.'
    I mean, there definitely is such a thing as "beating" WoW. Finish all main story content. AKA: Clear the raids as that is story content. Doesn't matter to me if you only finish it on the easiest difficulty.

    "Completing" WoW is much harder to do, but also still possible. You can, in theory, obtain every single thing that is obtainable.

  13. #173
    Titan Orby's Avatar
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    I used to be huge on anti flying but I remember TBC and WotLK where flying kind of felt like a part of the game. Make flying feel like apart of the experience instead of an easy mode and I am all for it. Give areas a flying only zone where you can only really traverse through flying...simple

  14. #174
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Getting around in flying expansions was way more tedious and just as time consuming. At least with a ground mount you're not just pointing in a direction and waiting.



    And in other areas there were barely any quest mobs and you had to wait ages for respawns, especially when there was no tags and horrendous drop-rates. If you don't like having to wait around and compete with other players then previous expansions should have been way more frustrating for you regardless of flying.

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    Most of WotLK was designed to be tackled without flying, it's only Storm Peaks and Icecrown that really needed a flying mount and while I found one an excellent experience the other was made incredibly dull by being able to fly.

    And whilst there's no right or wrong answer about what is objectively "good," there is a right or wrong answer as to what sort of content Blizz want to develop and what works for the player-base as a whole (as in what does their internal metrics show to be successful, not what is complained about on the forums.)
    All of the Wotlk late game was predicated on being able to fly. Basically everything from 77-80 required it. Argent tournament, knights of the ebon blade, sons of hodir, as well as access to the max level dungeons and raids.

    And I mean, evidence-based results would show that the expansions like BC, WotLK and MoP that had flying immediately accessible at max level were more or less universally beloved, whereas expansions like WoD where they leaned HARD into no flying… not so much.

    So for the track record of “what seems to work” the “no-flying” expansions don’t do too well. Their poster boy is WoD, the epitome of “unrewarding activities that take too long to do strewn across zones frustrating and annoying to navigate repeatedly.”
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2021-06-20 at 09:20 PM.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Hctaz View Post
    I mean, there definitely is such a thing as "beating" WoW. Finish all main story content. AKA: Clear the raids as that is story content. Doesn't matter to me if you only finish it on the easiest difficulty.
    For original TBC storyline (i.e. 2.0/2.1) this basically means obtaining "Blessed Medallion of Karabor".

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by MrMatticus View Post
    No one is unsubbed only because of flying.
    Wrong, since they started this no flying in live garbage at the start of the new expansions I wait until the patch that unlocks it comes out then I resub and play. The only thing I do till its unlocked is the required chores to unlock it daily/weekly then log off. After all that bullshit is done and I can finally fly THEN I actually do things in the world and play the game.

    I refused to play Classic because you couldn't fly at all, only playing BCC now because you can fly there once high enough level.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaqwert View Post
    TBC is my favorite WoW expansion by far but I'm definitely one of those people that now contend flying is one of the worst things ever added o the game.

    I get why people like it and enjoy it but, it also really destroys the feel of the world.

    I'm now in Shadowmoon Valley, all these big scary fortresses with hundreds of elite guards and barricades and towers.... LOL jk just fly directly over them none of the monsters seem to notice or care.

    Land in the middle of their fortress, kill the boss, fly out.

    What's the point of building a big outdoor fortress with thousands of elite guards if anybody can just zip in? Flying really does destroy the "feel" of the world. It's just way too safe and way too convenient and way too solitary.

    I really think they could have done a better job implementing a much more limited flying system, one that gives you some of the pros without all the cons.
    Not that it needs to be said again, but this is an opinion and not a good one. If you want engaging world stuff, dont fly. it really is as simple as that. You leveled through the content, so this whole idea that you didnt have to engage in the world is nonsense. Not everyone wants to spend forever fighting 100 pointless mobs because YOU think its engaging....

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    Quote Originally Posted by SinR View Post
    WEH I HATE FLYING
    *gets on 280% flyer*
    IT RUINS MY IMMERSION!
    *zips to the next Fire Elemental mob*
    THERE'S NO SENSE OF DANGER
    *mounts up*
    100% this. They have a choice. Instead blizz listens to the squeaky wheel and claims they are doing it because the players want it.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    And then once Wrath drops, you don't beat the game until you get every achievement!!!!!!!!!!1

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    Yeah, that's why college is dumb! Why pay so much money when you can just work at an Amazon center for $19/hour! No one ever became rich by paying a bunch of money up front! Investments are for losers!
    Your talking about 1 percent of 1 percent and comparing them to min wagers. It has been proven that if you do a trade like an electrician or plumber and compare it to your average college graduate then they end up being equal by the time they retire. The tradie doesn't have a huge college debt. A tradie starts earning straight away. A tradie makes decent money. A tradie is allowed to invest their money.

    Try again buddy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post

    I'm honestly curious as to how large that group of people is.
    At work whenever we got pizza a lot of people would choose vegetarian, which would be 25-33% of the order. Oddly enough, when everybody had finished eating, most of the leftover pizza was vegetarian.

    I'm starting to think that this whole flying/no-flying thing is another way of dividing the playerbase or distracting us.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    Except the ground mount guy is 31 hours ahead because they didn't spend 6200g on flying. While Mr Epic Flying is farming, Gordon Groundie is buying gear off the AH. Looks like Gordon Groundie is winning.
    I think even with a basic understanding of economics one can figure out that the person with epic flying will relatively quickly make that money back and from that point on, pull ahead.
    Your calculation also naturally ignores that the person that does not even purchase flying will not be able to do even the entry raid as Karazhan requires flying, meaning if you actually intent to raid in TBC, the cost is 5200g, not 6200g.
    But i'm sure the ability to clear T4 a few seconds faster because you have purchased some items off the AH will make up for that...right?

    If you intent to make gold in TBC primarily via outdoor gathering, then you are just plain stupid not to invest the gold into epic flying first, unless you have no intention to farm more than 5k gold total during the enterity of TBC, which is a pretty tight budget if you want to buy craftable items as well.

    And that puts aside the massive QoL boost that epic flying provides.

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