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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    More like "oh shit there's easy money to be made"
    *Jumps on band wagon*.
    You do realise that he's risking his contract with Blizzard by doing this?
    A contract that is a lot more stable than Youtube ad revenue? If he was just in it for the money he would have never done such a thing,way too risky

  2. #182
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    You have no idea right. Nothing but speculation. All we know for a fact is that they lost players, while all the competition gained players. A lot of players. Trying to find excuses for why the company failed is kinda silly.
    Except you are the one doing that... You are speculating it's wow, when the rest of us know for a fact, those reasons above...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    Actually, you can buy a boost from Blizzard to 50 and then buy a boost from other players to 60. So yes, you can buy boosts from 1-60.

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    You can fix it by doing something like a social ilvl. If you manually form groups outside of LFR / dungeon finder and complete dungeons with people on your server, you get points. Earn enough points and you are eligible for loot drops next week. Fail to earn enough points and you can still run stuff next week but you get no loot.
    60 is no longer the cap, And in the video he shows it as a max level on retail not classic.

  3. #183
    Does he just use the photoshop/editing programs paint filter for the box art of the real thing or did he actually make em? Also if he can make stuff look that good why is the rest of the art shit?


    Also its funny how he makes it seem like it's cash shop mounts and boosts that made every single player quit. Not a single person I knew that quit did so because of those things it was always real life or went to a game that require less time investment.

  4. #184
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mahcake View Post
    And that’s why he’s basically burning bridges with Blizzard and will lose a lot of money in the process. Sure man. That completely makes sense.

    I have no idea why it’s so hard for some people to even comprehend that there are people who have different opinions about something and sometimes they use creative means to express themselves. It’s called being passionate about something. It’s not always just because of money, fame or stuff like that.
    I don't think you know how it works. Speaking asmon and bellualar are still in blizzards favor, I doubt this will make him no longer in blizzards favor...

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    its funny you bring up the 12 million subs, cause wow had 12 million subs at the PEAK of MTX, as wotlk/cata introduced the most MTX of any expansion.
    it's a long story. it took me like what. 8 years to see the whole picture? you can't put all of that in a forum post. what you can do - if you really want to know - then you can watch Asmongold's twitch channel. he has got pretty well thought out explanations around the issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    You cant say
    "facts show" and "If you look at X you will find" then say later "its just my opinion" if you make STATEMENTS instead of OPINIONS that shit is worthless.
    You cant say "fact's show" then follow that up with an opinion, facts do not show that.
    there are no facts in game design. games are entertainment and that is subjective. all you can do is read and read and read some more until you understand the PoV of as many players as possible. once that is done you can start forming your own opinion on the subject, in this case mtx in mmos.

    edit: if you don't have the time for that - which most people don't - then what you can do is look at the video in question and go: okay 50.000 likes means 50.000 people out there agree with the message of the video. next step would be to find a similar video that champions mtx in mmos. if that videos gets the same amount of support or even more then we know that the community is indeed split on the subject. until that happens the only rationale is to look at these 50.000 gamers and go 'okay there is a problem'.
    Last edited by Rinnegan2; 2021-06-20 at 11:29 PM.

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by vizzle View Post
    I saw this on Reddit front page this morning, thought it was pretty nice. The reactions were very kind and thoughtful.

    I see this on MMO-Champ tonight. The reactions are toxic and cynical.

    Hopefully when WoW finally dies, this community goes along with it.

    It's fine if you don't agree with Carbot. But the level of negativity, the complete inability by some posters to accept any of the criticism, and to pretend it's just because people "got old"? It's pretty pathetic.

    The truth is a game doesn't go from 12 million subs to < 2 million subs because of a series of good changes. But there are some of you who will pretend there's no fault with the game right up until either it dies or you die.
    My thoughts as well. It is absolutely pathetic how petty some people here are for Carbot even daring to suggest that many of the monetisation services and items, anti-social systems, and gameplay changes have lowered the quality of the game to the point of being completely unrecognizable from what made WoW the juggernaut that it was in the past.

    Shadowlands to me is the expansion which made me completely apathetic to the future of the game. BfA surely started my disdain towards modern WoW, but I held out hope that the devs would start to listen to players in Shadowlands. However, after having to deal with the ridiculously low amount of content, overly complex systems that have been a complete waste of development time, and the sheer hubris of the developers that keep insisting that they know better when they clearly don't, I am now at a point where I likely will not return to the game unless they somehow manage to release another Legion. Though with the current leadership I have next to no hope of that ever happening.
    Last edited by Frozen Death Knight; 2021-06-21 at 03:06 PM.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Zypherz View Post
    I'll say is this: If boosts, dungeon finder and in-game stores didn't have reprecussions, they'd have been in the game much earlier than they were, nor would they have been a gradual implementation. I'm not saying that I'm right or wrong about wanting the game to be a certain way, I'm saying that it's not strange a bulk of players don't support it. Stop acting like it's crazy that people don't like it.
    well said, my friend

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by vizzle View Post
    The truth is a game doesn't go from 12 million subs to < 2 million subs because of a series of good changes. But there are some of you who will pretend there's no fault with the game right up until either it dies or you die.
    If only you people could ever cite a source for them numbers.

    Guess what? The game was losing millions of players during its peak too. It was just that enough players were coming in to offset the losses and to set the record. SL has been cited as "seeing numbers not seen in a decade (Cata) and has been cited showing nothing but growth from OFFICIAL sources, yet here's people somehow privvy to numbers not shared officially?

    MoP had pretty much everything that the game has now in terms of store and QOL, it held 5 million during a 14-month drought. WoD saw plummets to 4 million due to its lack of CONTENT, then came Legion.

    People thinking that the scale has only moved downward through expansion launches and patches, muddy the waters. The most apparent disconnect between what people on these forums say vs what's going on, being the quarterlies throughout BfA.

    We've only got GROWTH, or DECREASE. Cold hard numbers as "2 million subs" or "10 million subs", are guesswork and as such, useless in the end.

    So yes, whilst I'm sympathetic to people taking issue with design philosophies and needless additions to the game, as I do, it'd have a much better impact I think if people such as yourself stopped blurting numbers that a) nobody's got access to nowadays and b) are pulled from the ass of 3rd party sources.

    Just my 2 cents on why it always derails, same as whenever someone uses the D-word. Nobody would be happier than myself if SL took a nosedive in player engagement, as that could MAYBE spark a rework and design philosophy change for 10.0, but I'm still holding out for it as of the latest Quarterly.
    Last edited by SensationalBanana; 2021-06-21 at 12:12 AM.

  9. #189
    You just have to check the video description to smell the hypocrisy in this video.

  10. #190
    I think the vid is good.

    I don't think it's the Mtx's and automation of it all.. I think it's.. back in classic we where these young ins, with oceans of time to invest into a game.. and with it, we began investing into other people in our guild.. people from across the world, with different backgrounds and personalities and beliefs.. but we all shared that one single thing. The love for the game.

    So every day you would log in, see the same names, hear the same voices... and for years you would game, raid and pvp alongside them.

    Then as time starts to move on, as it inevitably does.. the game changes, we change.. we no longer have all the time to invest into the game, people move on, we grow older, get kids, jobs that require sometimes way too much.. and all those familiar names and the progress you made with them fall off... some say goodbye, others just one day no longer log in, until you notice that 6+ month grey offline mark on their tag.

    And then classic hit, and some of those old names came back, and those oh so familiar voices, and then TBC.. but we got older and we can't or wont afford ourselves those massive time investments anymore..

    And those same people move on again, and then they sell a boost... and you want to blame those damned MTX's.. but deep down you know.

    I think that's what the vid creator tried to convey, that sometimes nostalgia hits, and it can hit hard at times

    I think that is also what is causing this massive difference in opinion..
    Some of you are still young, or do have time left to invest.. and if so good for you, do what you enjoy..
    And maybe that's what irks some of us older fellas, the fact we no longer have that option .
    Last edited by Reinaerd; 2021-06-21 at 12:07 AM.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    Some people just don't like getting milked and express their anger. Nothing wrong with that.
    There is nothing wrong with that, but when you have to lower yourself to lie about it, that is when it is no longer justified. As another poster said, carbot lied about saying that the TBC:C boost was "skip to the end". Level 58 isn't the end of neither vanilla nor TBC

  12. #192
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rinnegan2 View Post
    it's a long story. it took me like what. 8 years to see the whole picture? you can't put all of that in a forum post. what you can do - if you really want to know - then you can watch Asmongold's twitch channel. he has got pretty well thought out explanations around the issue.

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    there are no facts in game design. games are entertainment and that is subjective. all you can do is read and read and read some more until you understand the PoV of as many players as possible. once that is done you can start forming your own opinion on the subject, in this case mtx in mmos.

    edit: if you don't have the time for that - which most people don't - then what you can do is look at the video in question and go: okay 50.000 likes means 50.000 people out there agree with the message of the video. next step would be to find a similar video that champions mtx in mmos. if that videos gets the same amount of support or even more then we know that the community is indeed split on the subject. until that happens the only rationale is to look at these 50.000 gamers and go 'okay there is a problem'.
    Yeah asmongold.. .totally a good example...
    Also there is facts in game design my dude, you're wrong.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Zypherz View Post
    I'll say is this: If boosts, dungeon finder and in-game stores didn't have reprecussions, they'd have been in the game much earlier than they were, nor would they have been a gradual implementation. I'm not saying that I'm right or wrong about wanting the game to be a certain way, I'm saying that it's not strange a bulk of players don't support it. Stop acting like it's crazy that people don't like it.
    That can be flipped though.

    If they were losing enough business over the store, it'd have been removed/changed. It's not crazy that people don't like it, of course. Blizzard however, got literal data as they collected feedback for YEARS on why someone quit the game, and they've expanded the store, not decreased/removed it.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    It's MMO champ, it's mostly a place for fanbois anymore. No actual discussion can take place. It's literally one dude making a video about his own experiences and it's being ripped apart.
    Quite the contrary, this thread is actually having discussions about the content of the video as opposed to the overwhelming echochamber that is the comments section of the youtube video itself. It's not farfetched to think that people disagree, the video paints the game in a very disingenuous light as you can see by a lot of peoples experiences in this thread, and completely fails to compensate for outside factors that also affects who does and doesn't play the game.

    When you have a game as old as this, where you could have been in middle school when it came out and be part of the working class now with a family, it is really not a farfetched thought to think people have changed priorities, and heck even taste in games, over the course of 17 years. It is far easier to start pointing fingers at all the things that "changed for the worse" with the game instead of reassessing how your own values might have changed over time.

    When the video is called "This is World of Warcraft" of course people who disagree with the message are going to voice their opinion.
    All who believe in telekinesis, raise my hand

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    Some people just don't like getting milked and express their anger. Nothing wrong with that.
    milked how?a boost and a mount isnt something you need to get to be competitive

    yeah shaving off a few lvling days is nice...but...does it help you THAT much?any1 who is serious about tbc would have had a 60 long ago,or leveled it in pre patch no sweat,i started a draenei casualy playing,with a JERB and irl stuff and i made it to 54 or 56 when tbc launched,and i was for sure leveling suboptimaly also doing quests that had me travel to much for to little xp

    milking is when games sell vital power stuff like bdo or whatever

  16. #196

  17. #197
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    It's MMO champ, it's mostly a place for fanbois anymore. No actual discussion can take place. It's literally one dude making a video about his own experiences and it's being ripped apart.
    "Mmochampion is a fanboi website"
    My dude.
    Its known well as the most toxic, hate filled, "wow is dead" place in the wow community...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ONCHEhap View Post
    You do realise that he's risking his contract with Blizzard by doing this?
    A contract that is a lot more stable than Youtube ad revenue? If he was just in it for the money he would have never done such a thing,way too risky
    No he does not risk his contract with blizzard, you literally dont know how it works...
    if bellular and asmongold still get favors from blizz, you really think THIS is going to get him removed?
    come on man.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    Ok - I'll only say it once in this thread:

    It devalues character progression.
    if it was in vanila yes,it would,but in tbc its irelevant,character progression pre tbc is basicaly dead

    sure having some t3 is nice and all,but you didnt get that t3 by llvling from 1 to 60 normaly anyways

    people need to get over the character progression meme,WOW IS NOT ABOUT THAT and it NEVER was

    wow resets every progression with every expansion,and these days even with every patch lol

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post

    No he does not risk his contract with blizzard, you literally dont know how it works...
    if bellular and asmongold still get favors from blizz, you really think THIS is going to get him removed?
    come on man.
    Have you read through this "contract"? I only ask because to be able to say one way or the other, you would need to know what terms and conditions were in the agreement. Having read a couple of other agreements, in a similar field, I can confirm they can have some pretty strict and rather unusual conditions in them. One i saw was regarding Warhammer 40k (not video games, i know) and it contained a clause forbidding them from mentioning pricing in a negative way. It went on to list a bunch of examples including facial expressions, body language, and "emojis and/or emotes". He was not forced to say positive things about the pricing, but explained he chose not to discuss the pricing at all as he already received a warning early on for saying something he thought was quite positive, along the lines of "priced very well compared to other recent releases"
    Quote Originally Posted by Utrrabbit View Post
    Any sane person would see your a moron.
    Quote Originally Posted by OokOok View Post
    you have to be a moron to of said .

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Koward View Post
    The video is not salty. There is no rage, or demands in it. It is only melancholia.
    There is a population who can't find what they seek in the mindset of modern WoW, and it is human to feel sadness about something being gone.
    It is okay if you cannot understand that.
    But maybe the problem is them. I can still get the same things from it.

    It's human to feel sadness, but it's silly to feel sadness because they're tired of playing a video game and can't accept it isn't 2005 anymore.

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