Page 14 of 26 FirstFirst ...
4
12
13
14
15
16
24
... LastLast
  1. #261
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA-US
    Posts
    35,664
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    I dislike this notion, while not untrue, because it in my downplays the mistakes Blizzard has made over the years and especially in the context Classic / TBC, the arrogance of certain Blizzard employees (now President) certainly added fuel to that fire.

    The way i see it, the success of Classic (and by extension TBC) is to some extent a rejection of how Blizzard has designed the game for the past decade, how they've thrown any sort of "blockade" under the bus for the sake accessability and frankly stripped the game of RPG elements because a given portion of the playerbase didn't like it (or rather, an audience they hoped to gain).
    Blizzard essentially pretended that people who preferred that "Old school" style are some tiny, forgotten minority, largely fueled by nostalgia for the "good old days".
    Now, it's actually been shown that group wasn't so tiny, that people actually left the game because they didn't like the direction, people that now returned to the game.

    Of course, age is a factor, no needs to pretend that WoW still would have a gazillions subs if Blizzard hadn't done X, but when a company that blatanty rejects the viewpoint of a portion of their playerbase, only then having to concede multiple times that the thing they've rejected for years is actually pretty successful, they don't get to play the "oh well, the game is pretty old, too!" card.

    One cannot control age, but one has control over the decisions they make - and Blizzard made some bad ones.
    As I said, that's my personal experience, and YMMV insofar as that goes. I won't argue Blizzard hasn't made mistakes with WoW - although "mistake" here always strikes me as a bit of a crutch, because we don't really know what the outcome would be if they'd made a different decision. I'm more inclined to say that Blizzard has made decisions I don't agree with, without the subliminal notion that I somehow know better, or that what I would've done would've been more successful or applauded. In a sense, the game's very longevity in the face of so many other MMO's that are now dust on the wind speaks to Blizzard's skill at handling their IP. If WoW were truly as mistake-riddled and mismanaged as some people try to claim I think it is obvious it would be in a much worse position than it is now, likely joining the mass grave of other MMO's before it: WildStar, Tabula Rasa, Hellgate: London, Vanguard, Asheron's Call, Warhammer Online, etc., etc.

    Now, this isn't intended to be high praise for WoW - it's got its problems, and a lot of those problems are in my takeaway elements of a life-support system that has been created to pump artificial life into the game as it enters its dotage. From boosting (a way to ensure returning veterans can quickly return to what is considered the true meat of the game, its end-game systems) to the cash shop (ensuring a steady revenue stream) to the streamlining you mention above (an attempt to appeal to a new audience) - I would argue these are necessary allowances to keep an elderly IP afloat in a sea of changing demographics and innovating offerings. You may not like them, I don't like many of them, but I hypothesize that without them WoW may well have flatlined a long time ago.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." - Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    wile i would say the decline of retail is due to a thausands cuts over time,the popularity of classic is due in great part for nostalgia and simply because its different'
    1.Most people that play Classic / TBC do not play Retail (Blizzards word, not mine) hence the logic "it's just different" doesn't fly, especially as Classic and TBC aren't exactly to play as a "side game" due to sheer time requirements.
    Playing both Retail and Classic / TBC is pretty exhausting, at least for a longer period of time.

    It also needs to be pointed out that Classic / TBC have a lot more detrimental elements, such as
    (1)No content is actually new
    (2)Technologically inferior / lack of basic QoL stuff (talking mostly about addons that Blizzard over the years integrated into their standard UI)
    (3)No Class (re)balances
    (4)Oldass graphics

    Yet people some people still choose to play Classic / TBC over the modern game, that's not just because people want to play a different version of WoW, it's because they prefer that version of WoW.

    2.I don't think one can maintain a sizeable audience for a longer period solely on nostalgia, that's not how nostalgia works, nostalgia doesn't last for almost two whole years

    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    In a sense, the game's very longevity in the face of so many other MMO's that are now dust on the wind speaks to Blizzard's skill at handling their IP. If WoW were truly as mistake-riddled and mismanaged as some people try to claim I think it is obvious it would be in a much worse position than it is now, likely joining the mass grave of other MMO's before it: WildStar, Tabula Rasa, Hellgate: London, Vanguard, Asheron's Call, Warhammer Online, etc., etc.
    I think the comparison with other MMO's doesn't work because barely any MMO had the initial rush that WoW had, when looking at the sub graph, i don't necessarily think that the game would have plummeted to its "death" if Blizzard hadn't done certain things, simply because it has gained so much steam during Vanilla / TBC.

    I mean, let's assume for a moment that Blizzard wouldn't have implemented LFD at the end of Wotlk, does one believe those 12M would have lost 60% of their subs in the next ~4 years?
    I doubt that, the game had such a momentum at the time that Blizzard could have done a lot of shit and it still would have gone on for some time.

    I mean, we can also reverse that, which MMO would have survived an expansion like WoD / BfA?
    The survival of WoW in those cases can certainly not be credited to Blizzard, this because at the end of the day, the WoW community is a lot more loyal towards the game - a critical advantage that other MMO's rarely had.

    Just to provide some numbers, if you have been subbed for the enterity of WoD, meaning 21 Months, you paid around 270 bucks worth of sub + 40 for the Expansion itself.
    Meaning you gave over 300 bucks to Blizzard for the enterity of WoD if you've been subbed the entire time_just_to_play_the game (putting any MTX, including the WoW Token, aside), i do not think a lot of companies would have managed to pull off that trick.

    And frankly, when looking at the overall state, i think that goodwill towards Blizzard finally starts to disappear and Blizzard can count themselves lucky that almost every upstart MMO came out during a time where WoW was at least subwise in its prime, because if a decent alternative to WoW existed during the last 3-4 years, WoW would be in an even worse situation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    You may not like them, I don't like many of them, but I hypothesize that without them WoW may well have flatlined a long time ago.
    I'm not so sure about that, as said above, a game that survived expansions such as WoD or BfA is very hard to kill, because those were frankly points where Blizzard pretty much sabotaged themselves into failure and the rerelease of Classic has also shown that this "old school" audience isn't completely gone, either.

    And there are certainly a lot of people out there that don't play Classic / TBC because you absolutely feel its age in certain aspects, i'm not pretending that one button rotations or bossfights with 1-2 abilities are peak MMO design.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2021-06-21 at 01:15 PM.

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    1.Most people that play Classic / TBC do not play Retail (Blizzards word, not mine) hence the logic "it's just different" doesn't fly, especially as Classic and TBC aren't exactly to play as a "side game" due to sheer time requirements.
    Playing both Retail and Classic / TBC is pretty exhausting, at least for a longer period of time.

    It also needs to be pointed out that Classic / TBC have a lot more detrimental elements, such as
    (1)No content is actually new
    (2)Technologically inferior / lack of basic QoL stuff (talking mostly about addons that Blizzard over the years integrated into their standard UI)
    (3)No Class (re)balances
    (4)Oldass graphics

    Yet people some people still choose to play Classic / TBC over the modern game, that's not just because people want to play a different version of WoW, it's because they prefer that version of WoW.

    2.I don't think one can maintain a sizeable audience for a longer period solely on nostalgia, that's not how nostalgia works, nostalgia doesn't last for almost two whole years
    you got any link on the most classic players dont play retail?i would think the decline of sl around the time of tbc launching would mean different

    also i highly doubt the vast majority of private server players would want to play the modern wow client with its tweaks in classic

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    you got any link on the most classic players dont play retail?i would think the decline of sl around the time of tbc launching would mean different
    John Hight said this around the SL / Naxx launch
    Hight says that while Classic was far more popular than anyone at Blizzard expected, they also have found that one version of World of Warcraft is not cannibalizing the other -- rather, there's not much of overlap at all between people swapping between the two, and both communities are healthy enough he feels comfortable releasing major content updates (such as upcoming raids) in both games around the same time.
    https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...ld-it-ever-end

    The decline of SL is because there nothing new for months and TBC is free as long as you remain subbed.
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    also i highly doubt the vast majority of private server players would want to play the modern wow client with its tweaks in classic
    People are playing on the modern client in Classic / TBC, it's mimicking the old client.

  5. #265
    Hey man I fundamentally agree with you. I guess at the end of it I am purely nostalgic

  6. #266
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA-US
    Posts
    35,664
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    I think the comparison with other MMO's doesn't work because barely any MMO had the initial rush that WoW had, when looking at the sub graph, i don't necessarily think that the game would have plummeted to its "death" if Blizzard hadn't done certain things, simply because it has gained so much steam during Vanilla / TBC.

    I mean, let's assume for a moment that Blizzard wouldn't have implemented LFD at the end of Wotlk, does one believe those 12M would have lost 60% of their subs in the next ~4 years?
    I doubt that, the game had such a momentum at the time that Blizzard could have done a lot of shit and it still would have gone on for some time.

    I mean, we can also reverse that, which MMO would have survived an expansion like WoD / BfA?
    The survival of WoW in those cases can certainly not be credited to Blizzard, this because at the end of the day, the WoW community is a lot more loyal towards the game - a critical advantage that other MMO's rarely had.

    Just to provide some numbers, if you have been subbed for the enterity of WoD, meaning 21 Months, you paid around 270 bucks worth of sub + 40 for the Expansion itself.
    Meaning you gave over 300 bucks to Blizzard for the enterity of WoD if you've been subbed the entire time, i do not think a lot of companies would have managed to pull off that trick.

    And frankly, when looking at the overall state, i think that goodwill towards Blizzard finally starts to disappear and Blizzard can count themselves lucky that almost every upstart MMO came out during a time where WoW was at least subwise in its prime, because if a decent alternative to WoW existed during the last 3-4 years, WoW would be in an even worse situation.
    It's not just the comparison with other MMO's, but also that the very MMO genre is itself a product of its time and place and also appears to have a quantifiable shelf-life as a marketable one. One can only coast on steam for so far, too. In order for a thing in flight to stay aloft, to stretch this metaphor further, you need thrust from an external source to be maintained or else you eventually succumb to the forces of gravity and eventually touch down. LFD specifically wasn't really a life-sustaining measure added to WoW at its twilight, either; it was billed as a QoL improvement and as an answer to player complaints at the time (e.g. "it's so difficult and time-consuming to form groups only to have them break apart in a single wipe", etc.) YMMV as to whether it caused more damage than problems solved, of course; but as an argument, it's kind of neither here nor there.

    I am not sure why you wouldn't credit such loyalty to Blizzard insofar as that goes, either? It is their creation this player base is loyal to, after all; a credit to the quality of the IP that it can garner and preserve said loyalty. Inability to garner and keep player interest (and thus loyalty) would be a condemnation of these other MMO's, not an underserved or unqualified machination on Blizzard's part. WoW has been massively successful on a scale heretofore unseen through its history, and while the time may soon be upon it to pass its crown to any of a handful of worthy successors, I don't think one can easily undercut the sheer success of the IP even now. Its persistence and the continued loyalty of its fans doesn't come from nothing, after all; it's not a trick of the light or sleight of hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    I'm not so sure about that, as said above, a game that survived expansions such as WoD or BfA is very hard to kill, because those were frankly points where Blizzard pretty much sabotaged themselves into failure and the rerelease of Classic has also shown that this audience isn't completely gone, either.
    Behemoths are usually hard to kill - but they can and do die, in this case when they live out their natural lifespans. The re-release of Classic is as much an attempt to breathe life into the game as any of the aforementioned elements above are, as well. While you are correct that the audience isn't completely gone, it is most certainly not what it was, either. Nostalgia can only take one so far, after all.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." - Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by T-34 View Post
    Well this video is a perfect example of the mindset of a toxic entitled person:

    He simply can't accept that other people can/will play the game in another way than he does and instead of finding like-minded people to play with and ignore what/who he doesn't like he tries to guilt-shame other people to go on his bandwagon.
    He should do like the min/maxers are doing: Finding people like themselves and only play with them and not giving a flying fuck about how others play the game.

    This is a video where a grown man, I assume, is crying like a 5-year old who has no agency over his own life. Pathetic.
    This is total nonsense. Like the guy/girl who created the video, I find myself in a similar situation, I have seenthe game changing and I tried to adapt to many of the changes introduced. However, when you change things so deeply over the years, you will always inevitably lose people and gain new people due to the age of the people playing the game, and also because the game isn't what it used to be. This is OK, as people who started playing more recently will probably say the game is fine and disagree with "older" guys who preferred the old version of the game.

    What the author of the video really is hinting at, is that he has nobody else to play with due to the way the game is nowadays. Which is exactly how a lot of us feel. Even If the game changed so much, If I still had a lot of my friends playing it I would also still play it, but the reality is, nobody but myself was playing it before I quit.

    I hope it makes sense?

  8. #268
    Bloodsail Admiral Viikkis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    1,030
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    lol if asmon who is by far the nr 1 advert for blizz can make huge hate rants,im sure a nobody rando artist can make a small amateur lowkey cartoon no prob
    But Carbot has had his artwork featured IN GAME (Heroes of the Storm). That is a lot different than a streamer doing his thing without officially being endorsed by the company. The best you could go for is that Asmon was in that panel in Blizzcon 2017.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I discount it, I just think that it's less of a cause than it is a symptom of the game's very age - said age being the truer cause for why it can feel a bit desolate. In terms of video games, WoW is extremely old - its graphics and engine are very dated, and while great strides have been made to keep it relevant there will always be the clunkiness of a 17-year old piece of software trying to keep up with the Jones. So not only have its veterans, which I argue are the core of its stable population, largely departed slowly but surely as a product of growing older and just moving on - the game itself is ancient and lacks a lot of the flashy draw of newer RPG and MMO's with better graphics, refined systems, and innovations gleaned from WoW's own many successes and failures.

    So instead of pinning "the failure of WoW" on a single thing like microtransactions, or boosting, or whatever I think the real issue is just the aggregate of age and understandable obsolescence. Nothing lives forever, and for everything there's a season, as the old proverb goes.
    I disagree. People still play (old school) Runescape. There's a reason why the launch of Classic doubled WoW's subscriptions at the time. The age of a game doesn't really dictate whether people will be able to enjoy it. If any other game that lost a previously stable hardcore loyal audience like WoW had in a similarly short time period, it would be seen as a massive failure in design and people would start analysing what decisions from the company lead to this. It's only with WoW that people play this game where we hold the players (or literally anything else) accountable for the downfall of a game only to not lay any blame on the actual people who are responsible for designing it. I mean, this is anecdotal but the friends I used to play WoW with didn't grow out of the MMORPG genre or suddenly discovered they had a real life. They left because they were increasingly upset with Blizzard's decisions and moved over to greener pastures. The age of the game has very little to do with this.
    The absolute state of Warcraft lore in 2021:
    Kyrians: We need to keep chucking people into the Maw because it's our job.
    Also Kyrians: Why is the Maw growing stronger despite all our efforts?

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    People are playing on the modern client in Classic / TBC, it's mimicking the old client.
    yeah ofc its mimicking it,but its still the modern one,i would think diehard retro vanila fans would like the ehem ***authentic experience***

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Viikkis View Post
    But Carbot has had his artwork featured IN GAME (Heroes of the Storm). That is a lot different than a streamer doing his thing without officially being endorsed by the company. The best you could go for is that Asmon was in that panel in Blizzcon 2017.
    you just a grumpy kat what u know >_<

  11. #271
    Bloodsail Admiral Viikkis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    1,030
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post

    you just a grumpy kat what u know >_<
    What does that mean?

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    It's not just the comparison with other MMO's, but also that the very MMO genre is itself a product of its time and place and also appears to have a quantifiable shelf-life as a marketable one.
    Yes, and?
    The point however is that other MMO's never had the same steam as WoW, which in my view, allowed to survive the bad decisions made by Blizzard later on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I am not sure why you wouldn't credit such loyalty to Blizzard insofar as that goes, either? It is their creation this player base is loyal to, after all; a credit to the quality of the IP that it can garner and preserve said loyalty.
    Because i don't think other games would have gotten away with such lackluster expansions.

    You said it yourself, they built that loyalty, but that's the point where they started to lose it, they survived because of past victories, but not because they released a quality product.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Its persistence and the continued loyalty of its fans doesn't come from nothing, after all; it's not a trick of the light or sleight of hand.
    I think that is largely due to the initial success that WoW had and the emotional attachment people have developed to their characters over the years, not necesarily because they continued to release quality products.

    Let's be real, take a good look at the last 3 expansions
    WoD
    Legion
    BfA

    The only expansion that has a generally favorable conensus is Legion and that's largely because Blizzard threw the 2nd half of WoD into the bin and invested that into Legion, so that victory was gained with borrowed time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    While you are correct that the audience isn't completely gone, it is most certainly not what it was, either. Nostalgia can only take one so far, after all.
    The insinuation that Classic became a success solely due to nostalgia is just false, some people simply prefer that kind of game.
    Nostalgia doesn't make one play a game for nearly two years.

    Again, there are also a lot of people out there that don't play Classic / TBC simply because it features no new content and certain aspects haven't aged that well (such as encounter design).
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2021-06-21 at 01:40 PM.

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by Viikkis View Post
    What does that mean?
    uhm...do you not see your own avatar

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurathansal View Post
    You haven't played since Vanilla have you?
    Played all throughout TBC, WOTLK, Cata, WoD, and Legion. Thanks for trying to attack my character instead of my argument, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laurathansal View Post
    You like your M+, your teleport to dungeon, wow tokens, and especially the borrowed power systems, legendaries etc?
    The problem is, people aren't complaining about those

    People like Carbot are screeching and crying about a one-time boost and a vanity mount that has no impact on gameplay, claiming that these things "turn TBC into retail"

    they don't
    Last edited by anon5123; 2021-06-21 at 01:44 PM.

  15. #275
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA-US
    Posts
    35,664
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    I disagree. People still play (old school) Runescape. There's a reason why the launch of Classic doubled WoW's subscriptions at the time. The age of a game doesn't really dictate whether people will be able to enjoy it. If any other game that lost a previously stable hardcore loyal audience like WoW had in a similarly short time period, it would be seen as a massive failure in design and people would start analysing what decisions from the company lead to this. It's only with WoW that people play this game where we hold the players (or literally anything else) accountable for the downfall of a game only to not lay any blame on the actual people who are responsible for designing it. I mean, this is anecdotal but the friends I used to play WoW with didn't grow out of the MMORPG genre or suddenly discovered they had a real life. They left because they were increasingly upset with Blizzard's decisions and moved over to greener pastures. The age of the game has very little to do with this.
    I would say I pretty heartily disagree with most of the above, but again, speaking only from my subjective standpoint. Anecdotally, I know a lot of people who returned to WoW to experience Classic, played for a bit, and then fell off again after a time. Classic launched in 2019, when WoW was itself already 15 years old as an IP, a senior citizen when it comes to a modern video game. WoW has by then already experienced its dizzying heyday and settled into a slow but steady decline as an IP - I don't think anyone was really shocked at the trendline of WoW as Cata bled into WoD and then on into the later expansions. I mean if WoW had bled off half of its subscriber base all at once people would be worried, but that's not really in evidence here, it's more a series of crests and troughs with each receding a bit more each time, a clear if subtle arc of descent that would lend itself to something living along a predictable entropic curve.

    And like I said in my original post, my experience isn't going to be your experience or anyone else's - I can only relate my own experiences with the game, so I can't and won't speak to yours. I don't have any friends who used to play WoW that left because they were so upset with the game, or at least that wasn't their only rationale given. I would even go so far as to argue that a lot of people who make the claim are really just bored with the game or burnt out, which is definitely a factor I have seen. The flaws of a game become a lot more evident and glaring when you're not having fun with it, after all. I've experienced that one myself, and it was a reason I took something of an extended vacation from WoW in BFA - an expansion I didn't really enjoy for numerous reasons, and in said lack of enjoyment found even more jarring and annoying.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." - Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  16. #276
    Bloodsail Admiral Viikkis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    1,030
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    uhm...do you not see your own avatar
    Yes but how is that an argument?

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    Played all throughout TBC, WOTLK, Cata, WoD, and Legion. Thanks for trying to attack my character instead of my argument, though.


    The problem is, people aren't complaining about those

    People like Carbot are screeching and crying about a one-time boost and a vanity mount that has no impact on gameplay, claiming that these things "turn TBC into retail"

    they don't
    Pretty sure that was not the only thing in the video that was criticized. LFD was clearly depicted as a mechanical arm picking up random people and throwing them in a factory production line to go into the next dungeon. Also the "skip to the end" is obviously a hyperbole to make a statement. If people dont get that I dont know what to say.
    People are very much complaining about all of the above as well. It has just been so long that the vast majority of the people that complained about those systems have long left the game and they are not the hot center piece of the discussion anymore.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    they don't
    Of course they do. These things kill immersion. Whenever you see that thing and know it was obtained through real life money, it connects the fantasy world with the real world, thus breaks you from the game.

    Back in the day, when someone had something cool and unique like that, it was an indicator that player is good, skilled etc. You could actually see in the game just from their armor and things who they were. These kind of things motivated you to play more, get better and be better.

    I remember during WotLK, when I got my T10 set as a mage, there was this one guy who whisped me how great I look, how cool my items were and how much he wants them too. It’s these small things that really impact the whole game. That’s why I think transmog killed some of this too and I never liked that feature anywhere.

    Nowadays, that kind of motivation is gone because you can just swipe a card and get it for a few bucks. Of course, it’s optional but once it’s there, it will always hunt you during the game, forever.
    Last edited by Mahcake; 2021-06-21 at 02:07 PM.

  19. #279
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Ontario,Canada
    Posts
    23,482
    Quote Originally Posted by Viikkis View Post
    I think a guy like him who's done really close collaboration with Blizzard would think twice before jumping on a hatewagon that could damage his business.
    Again. If you think this will damage his buisness, while blizz still work with people like asmongold and belluar, you are dull.
    If blizzard has yet to drop them, they won't be dropping Car bot.

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by Mahcake View Post
    Of course they do. These things kill immersion. Whenever you see that thing and know it was obtained through real life money, it connects the fantasy world with the real world, thus breaks you from the game.
    Inb4 someone challenges the completely logical connection you are making as a human being of something in game being devalued because of the means of obtaining it and calls you a sweaty nerd for caring.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Again. If you think this will damage his buisness, while blizz still work with people like asmongold and belluar, you are dull.
    If blizzard has yet to drop them, they won't be dropping Car bot.
    Blizz doesnt work with asmon though. When have they ever? And Bellular was infamous for being a blizzard shill forever

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •