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  1. #181
    You just have to check the video description to smell the hypocrisy in this video.

  2. #182
    I think the vid is good.

    I don't think it's the Mtx's and automation of it all.. I think it's.. back in classic we where these young ins, with oceans of time to invest into a game.. and with it, we began investing into other people in our guild.. people from across the world, with different backgrounds and personalities and beliefs.. but we all shared that one single thing. The love for the game.

    So every day you would log in, see the same names, hear the same voices... and for years you would game, raid and pvp alongside them.

    Then as time starts to move on, as it inevitably does.. the game changes, we change.. we no longer have all the time to invest into the game, people move on, we grow older, get kids, jobs that require sometimes way too much.. and all those familiar names and the progress you made with them fall off... some say goodbye, others just one day no longer log in, until you notice that 6+ month grey offline mark on their tag.

    And then classic hit, and some of those old names came back, and those oh so familiar voices, and then TBC.. but we got older and we can't or wont afford ourselves those massive time investments anymore..

    And those same people move on again, and then they sell a boost... and you want to blame those damned MTX's.. but deep down you know.

    I think that's what the vid creator tried to convey, that sometimes nostalgia hits, and it can hit hard at times

    I think that is also what is causing this massive difference in opinion..
    Some of you are still young, or do have time left to invest.. and if so good for you, do what you enjoy..
    And maybe that's what irks some of us older fellas, the fact we no longer have that option .
    Last edited by Reinaerd; 2021-06-21 at 12:07 AM.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    Some people just don't like getting milked and express their anger. Nothing wrong with that.
    There is nothing wrong with that, but when you have to lower yourself to lie about it, that is when it is no longer justified. As another poster said, carbot lied about saying that the TBC:C boost was "skip to the end". Level 58 isn't the end of neither vanilla nor TBC

  4. #184
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rinnegan2 View Post
    it's a long story. it took me like what. 8 years to see the whole picture? you can't put all of that in a forum post. what you can do - if you really want to know - then you can watch Asmongold's twitch channel. he has got pretty well thought out explanations around the issue.

    - - - Updated - - -



    there are no facts in game design. games are entertainment and that is subjective. all you can do is read and read and read some more until you understand the PoV of as many players as possible. once that is done you can start forming your own opinion on the subject, in this case mtx in mmos.

    edit: if you don't have the time for that - which most people don't - then what you can do is look at the video in question and go: okay 50.000 likes means 50.000 people out there agree with the message of the video. next step would be to find a similar video that champions mtx in mmos. if that videos gets the same amount of support or even more then we know that the community is indeed split on the subject. until that happens the only rationale is to look at these 50.000 gamers and go 'okay there is a problem'.
    Yeah asmongold.. .totally a good example...
    Also there is facts in game design my dude, you're wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    My ideas are objectively good

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Zypherz View Post
    I'll say is this: If boosts, dungeon finder and in-game stores didn't have reprecussions, they'd have been in the game much earlier than they were, nor would they have been a gradual implementation. I'm not saying that I'm right or wrong about wanting the game to be a certain way, I'm saying that it's not strange a bulk of players don't support it. Stop acting like it's crazy that people don't like it.
    That can be flipped though.

    If they were losing enough business over the store, it'd have been removed/changed. It's not crazy that people don't like it, of course. Blizzard however, got literal data as they collected feedback for YEARS on why someone quit the game, and they've expanded the store, not decreased/removed it.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    It's MMO champ, it's mostly a place for fanbois anymore. No actual discussion can take place. It's literally one dude making a video about his own experiences and it's being ripped apart.
    Quite the contrary, this thread is actually having discussions about the content of the video as opposed to the overwhelming echochamber that is the comments section of the youtube video itself. It's not farfetched to think that people disagree, the video paints the game in a very disingenuous light as you can see by a lot of peoples experiences in this thread, and completely fails to compensate for outside factors that also affects who does and doesn't play the game.

    When you have a game as old as this, where you could have been in middle school when it came out and be part of the working class now with a family, it is really not a farfetched thought to think people have changed priorities, and heck even taste in games, over the course of 17 years. It is far easier to start pointing fingers at all the things that "changed for the worse" with the game instead of reassessing how your own values might have changed over time.

    When the video is called "This is World of Warcraft" of course people who disagree with the message are going to voice their opinion.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    Some people just don't like getting milked and express their anger. Nothing wrong with that.
    milked how?a boost and a mount isnt something you need to get to be competitive

    yeah shaving off a few lvling days is nice...but...does it help you THAT much?any1 who is serious about tbc would have had a 60 long ago,or leveled it in pre patch no sweat,i started a draenei casualy playing,with a JERB and irl stuff and i made it to 54 or 56 when tbc launched,and i was for sure leveling suboptimaly also doing quests that had me travel to much for to little xp

    milking is when games sell vital power stuff like bdo or whatever

  8. #188

  9. #189
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    It's MMO champ, it's mostly a place for fanbois anymore. No actual discussion can take place. It's literally one dude making a video about his own experiences and it's being ripped apart.
    "Mmochampion is a fanboi website"
    My dude.
    Its known well as the most toxic, hate filled, "wow is dead" place in the wow community...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ONCHEhap View Post
    You do realise that he's risking his contract with Blizzard by doing this?
    A contract that is a lot more stable than Youtube ad revenue? If he was just in it for the money he would have never done such a thing,way too risky
    No he does not risk his contract with blizzard, you literally dont know how it works...
    if bellular and asmongold still get favors from blizz, you really think THIS is going to get him removed?
    come on man.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    My ideas are objectively good

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    Ok - I'll only say it once in this thread:

    It devalues character progression.
    if it was in vanila yes,it would,but in tbc its irelevant,character progression pre tbc is basicaly dead

    sure having some t3 is nice and all,but you didnt get that t3 by llvling from 1 to 60 normaly anyways

    people need to get over the character progression meme,WOW IS NOT ABOUT THAT and it NEVER was

    wow resets every progression with every expansion,and these days even with every patch lol

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post

    No he does not risk his contract with blizzard, you literally dont know how it works...
    if bellular and asmongold still get favors from blizz, you really think THIS is going to get him removed?
    come on man.
    Have you read through this "contract"? I only ask because to be able to say one way or the other, you would need to know what terms and conditions were in the agreement. Having read a couple of other agreements, in a similar field, I can confirm they can have some pretty strict and rather unusual conditions in them. One i saw was regarding Warhammer 40k (not video games, i know) and it contained a clause forbidding them from mentioning pricing in a negative way. It went on to list a bunch of examples including facial expressions, body language, and "emojis and/or emotes". He was not forced to say positive things about the pricing, but explained he chose not to discuss the pricing at all as he already received a warning early on for saying something he thought was quite positive, along the lines of "priced very well compared to other recent releases"
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    In no way are you entitled to the 'complete' game when you buy it, because DLC/cosmetics and so on are there for companies to make more money
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Others, including myself, are saying that they only exist because Blizzard needed to create things so they could monetize it.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Koward View Post
    The video is not salty. There is no rage, or demands in it. It is only melancholia.
    There is a population who can't find what they seek in the mindset of modern WoW, and it is human to feel sadness about something being gone.
    It is okay if you cannot understand that.
    But maybe the problem is them. I can still get the same things from it.

    It's human to feel sadness, but it's silly to feel sadness because they're tired of playing a video game and can't accept it isn't 2005 anymore.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    He even puts in the video that the boost gets you to max level... The boost has never gotten you to max level. (Just before a new expansion drops, technically it is, but I wouldn't really call that max level speaking the expansion is literally over)
    TeChNiCaLlY iT iS, bUt LiTeRaLly iT iSnT gUyS. iTs NeVeR hApPeNeD.. sUpEr SeRiAl GuYs

  14. #194
    I think y'all get the mtx mixed up here

    Y'all think Blizz added mounts and boosts and people left
    I think in reality people left and Blizz added mounts and boosts to shore up the loss...I mean I don't know about y'all but I keep in touch with a lot of my friends who left...a few left in the beginning of wrath cause they didn't like the direction the game went, some left cause of a job, family moved away, etc....guild broke up and they didn't want to find another or their best friend stopped so they also stopped.

    The anger I feel is more an inability to move on...everyone around you did but here you are trying to keep up the good fight

    I'll end with one good question....how many games have you played consistently for 15 years....ie every day for that amount of time

  15. #195
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Carbot's "This is World of Warcraft" is definitely a tour de force in melancholy, with a biting critique at its core - and though I wouldn't fault him for having his own ideas or feelings about what may have led to WoW's current state, I don't really agree with his implied summation either. I won't deny that WoW isn't what it was population-wise at least in my own experience, which like everyone else's is entirely anecdotal and subjective. While a small knot of friends are still around and we play rather regularly, we no longer have the numbers to actually raid, and even getting together for a weekly spare of Mythic+ runs can be an issue. This isn't really WoW's fault - it's not boosting, or P2W, the cash shop, or the WoW token. It's just the nature of life and change, really. Back in 2005 through 2012, I used to be a pretty serious raider but today I'm about as casual as they come. The ability to commit time to WoW has been whittled away by life's many commitments. I got married in 2009, went through a number of workplace promotions from 2011 and on through to today, requiring more and more time on my part and leaving less free time for pursuits like WoW. My friends in WoW have the same stories over the nearly two decades that WoW has endured - having children, growing careers, moving upward and onward as time passed.

    I'll probably be playing WoW when that final expansion is launched at some future point, even if it's only an hour or two a month. I've played it since my mid-20's and on to today. It's like an old friend to me, even bereft of the rowdy crew I used to run with - I come back to it when I'm not busy with other games or hobbies. It's bittersweet to feel, or openly acknowledge, that WoW has likely entered into its autumnal days, but that too is the nature of these things. It's been and probably will continue to be a wild ride for some time, and if you're like me and still enjoy the game I think it'll have a lot to offer in the days to come.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Rinnegan2 View Post
    no one has the numbers. not even blizzard. because there is no way to conclusively tell why players have left over the years. the only way you can make an educated guess is to read all the feedback players have given over the years and this includes all the complaints on all platforms. so when taking all the complaints into account, you will find that the #1 complaint is mtx followed closely by dungeon finder (lfg is fine - teleporting to dungeons is not).

    again, it's not about whether you like mtx or not it's about bringing paying customers back to the game so that Blizzard can continue to build great games and pump out content for WoW. that's really it.
    Everything you are saying is made up. It is interesting how much confidence you say it with though. I believe you believe what you are saying is true, even though it's a complete guess that you have put absolutely no effort into validating.

    "Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
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  17. #197
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    TeChNiCaLlY iT iS, bUt LiTeRaLly iT iSnT gUyS. iTs NeVeR hApPeNeD.. sUpEr SeRiAl GuYs
    i mean yeah? would you say the boost instantly gets you to max level? no, becauses that would be a lie, every 2 years there is 1 month MAYBE 2 where the boost gets you max level ,but that is RIGHT before the max level is increased...
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    My ideas are objectively good

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    ....aaaand it ends with more boost/store mount whining, lmao. Inaccurate whining too, since it has "skip to the ending".....leveling 1 character to 58 isn't skipping to the ending.

    People will just forever be salty about optional vanity items, won't they?
    "Optional vanity items" which affect the quality of the ingame achievables... its a hard concept to understand for some that microtransaction products must be better quality than ingame ones so they sell.

    Almost every store mount is a unique skin and an equivalant cannot be found anywhere else in the game... the only time we get unique skins ingame itself is maybe once per expansion, the rest are just reskins.

    Remember the first store cosmetics? we still dont have anything like them ingame... those 3 hat transmogs. They are insanely cool and the only ones of their kind... only purchaseable from the store.

    People will forever defend their store purchases so they dont feel bad about them.

  19. #199
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    You act like leveling wasn't a core part of the game in TBC anymore.
    It was when TBC was new. Now that it is a snapshot of time, People that want to play TBC shouldn't be required to play through Vanilla if they don't choose to.

    I'd be fine with literally any ongoing "classic" expansions having the choice to skip directly to their expansions content. I hate Vanilla yet love TBC. I feel no reason to grind through something I hate for 60hrs just to get to content I enjoy.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Carbot's "This is World of Warcraft" is definitely a tour de force in melancholy, with a biting critique at its core - and though I wouldn't fault him for having his own ideas or feelings about what may have led to WoW's current state, I don't really agree with his implied summation either. I won't deny that WoW isn't what it was population-wise at least in my own experience, which like everyone else's is entirely anecdotal and subjective. While a small knot of friends are still around and we play rather regularly, we no longer have the numbers to actually raid, and even getting together for a weekly spare of Mythic+ runs can be an issue. This isn't really WoW's fault - it's not boosting, or P2W, the cash shop, or the WoW token. It's just the nature of life and change, really. Back in 2005 through 2012, I used to be a pretty serious raider but today I'm about as casual as they come. The ability to commit time to WoW has been whittled away by life's many commitments. I got married in 2009, went through a number of workplace promotions from 2011 and on through to today, requiring more and more time on my part and leaving less free time for pursuits like WoW. My friends in WoW have the same stories over the nearly two decades that WoW has endured - having children, growing careers, moving upward and onward as time passed.

    I'll probably be playing WoW when that final expansion is launched at some future point, even if it's only an hour or two a month. I've played it since my mid-20's and on to today. It's like an old friend to me, even bereft of the rowdy crew I used to run with - I come back to it when I'm not busy with other games or hobbies. It's bittersweet to feel, or openly acknowledge, that WoW has likely entered into its autumnal days, but that too is the nature of these things. It's been and probably will continue to be a wild ride for some time, and if you're like me and still enjoy the game I think it'll have a lot to offer in the days to come.
    But thats only you and all the other veterans.

    What about new people who just started last year? or the year before that? etc. they havent played the game for a decade and they might not have kids and wives and fulltime jobs. They are literally in the same situation you were early on... so theres no reason why they wouldnt continue playing, right? the only thing that can keep those people playing is addicting game design, the type that got you into it and kept you in its grasp for years.

    So this good old "we are too old now"-explanation doesnt really work, its not like people who started in 2005 are the last generation to ever play WoW. :P
    Ive met people in classic who said they never had the chance to experience it so now they are trying it out. (at max level btw)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kami Dende View Post
    It was when TBC was new. Now that it is a snapshot of time, People that want to play TBC shouldn't be required to play through Vanilla if they don't choose to.

    I'd be fine with literally any ongoing "classic" expansions having the choice to skip directly to their expansions content. I hate Vanilla yet love TBC. I feel no reason to grind through something I hate for 60hrs just to get to content I enjoy.
    But vanilla is part of TBC... TBC is an expansion, not a sequel to a game. Its like buying Witcher 3 dlc but you dont wanna play the maingame at all first, you just want a boost to the dlc zones with all abilities unlocked.

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