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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    The reality is - that it is exactly what I think it is.
    Speaking of delusions...

  2. #62
    The Lightbringer Sanguinerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trbn View Post
    you want us to shit on android wilson on forum related to wow?
    No I want people to stop pretending they actually care.
    Subarashii chin chin mono
    Kintama no kami aru

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    carbot video is inadequate.

    his "pretended friends" shuld have been dissapearing since cata - and the reason is not microtransactions only because they had to focus on their family lives and work .

    but its portraying a typical wow nolifer perfecly well - everybody moved on with their lvies - and he wants to force everyone to manual grouping because its only way to force others to pretend to be his friends.

    - - - Updated - - -



    they never were. you were only one who thought they were.

    rest moved on and focuses on real lives - not on pixels in computer game.

    want friends ? find them irl .
    If you watch it closely, as the expansion stack of games increase you notice that the stack gets more and more messy, starting after WotLK (aka, starting with Cata). Seems to reflect that the direct of the game got more skewed from its original intent around that time, and if you talk to the original devs of WoW (they've made videos/content talking about this) they generally say that the seeds were laid in WotLK but ultimately didn't having adverse impacts on the socialization aspect of the game until Cata. The effect cascades over time to where we are now, and the animation does reference several aspects of the game that either ruined or run counter to socialization in the game. Could just be a happy mistake that the turning point of WoW was visually shown in that stack of expansions, you'd have to ask the creator.

    Another aspect to keep in mind is that the animation doesn't assume everything is just WoW's fault for where we are now, but it's also the players. Times have changed, as have the playerbase. For example, the days of standing in line to get your copy of the game/xpac is something that will likely never return, and that itself was a very unique social experience for many. As a side note, I still remember standing in line all those years ago for the release of WotLK specifically, the line full of cosplayers and people talking about the game to each other and being amicable and social. However, what the average player desires and expects from the game have likely changed over time. Instead of saying MTX is the cause of issues with WoW, I'd rather say it's a symptom that's the result of the deterioration of the social pillar of WoW. Same goes with group finder, raider.io scores, removal of server restrictions, War Mode, etc.: in a vacuum individually, they're not bad in concept, but how they have altered the playerbase behavior... and it's due Blizz allowing/making changes that players wanted/accepted but didn't realize the long-term consequences.

    While there certainly are players who have left the game due to real-life circumstances, part of the problem is that the game doesn't necessarily feel as fulfilling as it once did. Retail WoW feels more like a mobile game in design, but the earlier WoW versions actually felt like an MMORPG where you could immerse yourself and make friends (and enemies!). The irony is that while the game forced socialization in some aspects, that's still socialization that could lead to further natural socialization. Nowadays, there's almost no socialization needed to play WoW, and players tend to treat each other as NPCs.

    I was talking with some friends, some of who I actually met on my adventures in WoW and still are IRL friends with them despite them not playing the game anymore, and the video hit them a bit hard for various reasons but mostly revolving around the social aspect of the game just eroding and not being there anymore. Even those who left because they had a kid, started a family, had real-life issues come up, etc., the social bonds still remained beyond the game. A bunch even came back to play the classic versions of WoW, but they have noticed that the mentality that has been plaguing retail WoW has begun to trickle over... and while the players are partly responsible for this, Blizz is not exempt from blame.

    I guess I should end with this: any actual interaction with a player, whether forced or not, whether it is positive or negative, is still socialization. Sure, one interaction may not lead to anything grand, but enough put together will eventually create an experience that actually leaves an impression on you or leads to deeper, more meaningful, and potentially long-term social interactions. That's greats and fulfilling as a player, and that's what really is missing from retail WoW right now.

    *edit* - I figured I'd give an example of what kind of long-term socialization can result from WoW, and this one started as a negative one. Back in vanilla, it wasn't uncommon that there were notorious players of the opposite faction that you knew by name and had to look out for. There was this undead rogue that me and my friends ran into all the time, as he was known for ganking people nonstop... so whenever we crossed paths, it would devolve into long bloody battles that could last hours. This went on from vanilla to WotLK, at which point I decided to switch factions as I was recruited by a guild... and sure enough, that same undead rogue was also in this guild. When we first met in ventrilo, it started with a "Hey... wait a minute, you're that bastard that was always picking fights with me!", and then we started recalling all the battles we had in the world. Over time, we got to know each other and became in-game and IRL friends, as we played together all the way through WoD, at which point he left the game because he had real-life issues that came up... but that didn't stop us from being friends after that. It's one of a few memorable social moments that all started with some random person ganking a guildmate, but developed into something much more.
    Last edited by exochaft; 2021-06-24 at 06:24 PM.
    “Society is endangered not by the great profligacy of a few, but by the laxity of morals amongst all.”
    “It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights — the 'right' to education, the 'right' to health care, the 'right' to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery — hay and a barn for human cattle.”
    ― Alexis de Tocqueville

  4. #64
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vizzle View Post
    You realize that is nothing compared to the 155m? Base salary and bonuses are pennies compared to that. Read the link you linked. He's losing about 1.75m by cutting 50% off his annual bonuses.

    50% looks big if you don't know how to read it. Maybe leave the number interpretations to people who have jobs that aren't just studying WoW.
    maybe you need to learn to read?
    https://www.wowhead.com/news/activis...s-by-50-322086
    "Activision Blizzard CEO Bobby Kotick Cuts Salary and Bonus by 50%"

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dundebuns View Post
    Just a shame he gets the majority of his money through bonuses, which was not cut.
    Activision Blizzard CEO Bobby Kotick Cuts Salary and Bonus by 50%
    his bonus was cut.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    maybe you need to learn to read?
    https://www.wowhead.com/news/activis...s-by-50-322086
    "Activision Blizzard CEO Bobby Kotick Cuts Salary and Bonus by 50%"

    - - - Updated - - -



    Activision Blizzard CEO Bobby Kotick Cuts Salary and Bonus by 50%
    his bonus was cut.
    Okay, I see the problem. You've only ever had YouTube jobs so you don't understand how executive compensation works. You think all someone has is a salary and bonus.

    There's a base salary, bonuses, and other sources of compensation that can be made through performance-based metrics. Read:

    Various investment groups have been kicking off over just how much CEO Bobby Kotick is paid, for example, to the extent that Activision made "substantial and sustainable reductions in CEO compensation", including decreasing Kotick's base salary and cash bonus by 50%, making 95% of his total compensation performance-based, and linking it to other corporate objectives.

    Investment group CtW wasn't convinced, describing these changes as "smoke and mirrors" rather than meaningful change, while urging other investors to vote against it. CtW argued that Kotick's overall compensation package renders the apparent salary reduction moot.

    So don't worry: Mr Kotick will not be reduced to eating rice and beans, far from it. The Financial Times estimates that following this vote the executive will receive an eye-watering $155 million from these various compensation schemes, roughly the same as he took home last year.
    https://www.pcgamer.com/call-of-bobb...ar155-million/

    Does that clear things up for you? They cut 50% off a tiny percentage of his overall earnings, his base salary and bonuses. The "50% cut" that he lost was about a million or two, while he still earned the $155m.
    Why am I back here, I don't even play these games anymore

    The problem with the internet is parallel to its greatest achievement: it has given the little man an outlet where he can be heard. Most of the time however, the little man is a little man because he is not worth hearing.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanguinerd View Post
    meanwhile they ignore the overpaid CEOs of pretty much every other fucking company because it doesnt suit their pathetic Blizzard hating agenda.
    I mean...Bobby Kotick is or at least was ranked as one of the most overpaid CEO's in the US, i feel this argument seems pretty stupid in that context.

    https://venturebeat.com/2019/02/25/b...paid-u-s-ceos/

  7. #67
    So I guess Carbot unfriended Blizzard?

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    So I guess Carbot unfriended Blizzard?
    Highly doubt it goes the other way around. Blizzard pays a lot less attention to Youtube drama than people invested in said drama do, else they would have unfriended the likes of Asmongold or Bellular.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Highly doubt it goes the other way around. Blizzard pays a lot less attention to Youtube drama than people invested in said drama do, else they would have unfriended the likes of Asmongold or Bellular.
    Difference is that Bellular received his last paycheck years ago when he made some BfA guides for them and openly admitted that the pay was rather poor.
    Bellular at best can get interviews with the devs / invitation to some Blizzard organized events, which he got some, but that's about it.

    Asmongold, at least by his own words, has never asked any Blizzard for a dev interview and thus also does not receive anything from Blizzard, unless you are actively involved in some project that are organized by Blizzard (such as commentator on an event), content creators are not as dependant on Blizzard as one might think.

    Like...what would change if they decided to "unfriend" one of those content creators, Bellular wouldn't get any interviews with the devs and Asmongold would continue what he's doing.
    Carbot Animation at least is actually featured in Blizzard games.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Difference is that Bellular received his last paycheck years ago when he made some BfA guides for them and openly admitted that the pay was rather poor.
    Bellular at best can get interviews with the devs / invitation to some Blizzard organized events, which he got some, but that's about it.

    Asmongold, at least by his own words, has never asked any Blizzard for a dev interview and thus also does not receive anything from Blizzard, unless you are actively involved in some project that are organized by Blizzard (such as commentator on an event), content creators are not as dependant on Blizzard as one might think.

    Like...what would change if they decided to "unfriend" one of those content creators, Bellular wouldn't get any interviews with the devs and Asmongold would continue what he's doing.
    Carbot Animation at least is actually featured in Blizzard games.
    I strongly doubt it's a major part of his revenue in any way. They showcased his videos twice, I think, they have some of his images for in-game avatars and they had a collaboration for the Starcraft Remastered skin.

    If Bellular (or others like Preach) can still get occasional interviews while heavily criticizing Blizzard on numerous occasions, I strongly doubt one critical video will cause anything to happen to Carbot at all.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by vizzle View Post
    Okay, I see the problem. You've only ever had YouTube jobs so you don't understand how executive compensation works. You think all someone has is a salary and bonus.

    There's a base salary, bonuses, and other sources of compensation that can be made through performance-based metrics. Read:


    https://www.pcgamer.com/call-of-bobb...ar155-million/

    Does that clear things up for you? They cut 50% off a tiny percentage of his overall earnings, his base salary and bonuses. The "50% cut" that he lost was about a million or two, while he still earned the $155m.
    Be aware that felplague is about the biggest blizzard shill there is, not much point in trying to discuss anything with them, if you make a point they'll just ignore it and attack from some other angle.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    If you watch it closely, as the expansion stack of games increase you notice that the stack gets more and more messy, starting after WotLK (aka, starting with Cata). Seems to reflect that the direct of the game got more skewed from its original intent around that time, and if you talk to the original devs of WoW (they've made videos/content talking about this) they generally say that the seeds were laid in WotLK but ultimately didn't having adverse impacts on the socialization aspect of the game until Cata. The effect cascades over time to where we are now, and the animation does reference several aspects of the game that either ruined or run counter to socialization in the game. Could just be a happy mistake that the turning point of WoW was visually shown in that stack of expansions, you'd have to ask the creator.

    Another aspect to keep in mind is that the animation doesn't assume everything is just WoW's fault for where we are now, but it's also the players. Times have changed, as have the playerbase. For example, the days of standing in line to get your copy of the game/xpac is something that will likely never return, and that itself was a very unique social experience for many. As a side note, I still remember standing in line all those years ago for the release of WotLK specifically, the line full of cosplayers and people talking about the game to each other and being amicable and social. However, what the average player desires and expects from the game have likely changed over time. Instead of saying MTX is the cause of issues with WoW, I'd rather say it's a symptom that's the result of the deterioration of the social pillar of WoW. Same goes with group finder, raider.io scores, removal of server restrictions, War Mode, etc.: in a vacuum individually, they're not bad in concept, but how they have altered the playerbase behavior... and it's due Blizz allowing/making changes that players wanted/accepted but didn't realize the long-term consequences.

    While there certainly are players who have left the game due to real-life circumstances, part of the problem is that the game doesn't necessarily feel as fulfilling as it once did. Retail WoW feels more like a mobile game in design, but the earlier WoW versions actually felt like an MMORPG where you could immerse yourself and make friends (and enemies!). The irony is that while the game forced socialization in some aspects, that's still socialization that could lead to further natural socialization. Nowadays, there's almost no socialization needed to play WoW, and players tend to treat each other as NPCs.

    I was talking with some friends, some of who I actually met on my adventures in WoW and still are IRL friends with them despite them not playing the game anymore, and the video hit them a bit hard for various reasons but mostly revolving around the social aspect of the game just eroding and not being there anymore. Even those who left because they had a kid, started a family, had real-life issues come up, etc., the social bonds still remained beyond the game. A bunch even came back to play the classic versions of WoW, but they have noticed that the mentality that has been plaguing retail WoW has begun to trickle over... and while the players are partly responsible for this, Blizz is not exempt from blame.

    I guess I should end with this: any actual interaction with a player, whether forced or not, whether it is positive or negative, is still socialization. Sure, one interaction may not lead to anything grand, but enough put together will eventually create an experience that actually leaves an impression on you or leads to deeper, more meaningful, and potentially long-term social interactions. That's greats and fulfilling as a player, and that's what really is missing from retail WoW right now.

    *edit* - I figured I'd give an example of what kind of long-term socialization can result from WoW, and this one started as a negative one. Back in vanilla, it wasn't uncommon that there were notorious players of the opposite faction that you knew by name and had to look out for. There was this undead rogue that me and my friends ran into all the time, as he was known for ganking people nonstop... so whenever we crossed paths, it would devolve into long bloody battles that could last hours. This went on from vanilla to WotLK, at which point I decided to switch factions as I was recruited by a guild... and sure enough, that same undead rogue was also in this guild. When we first met in ventrilo, it started with a "Hey... wait a minute, you're that bastard that was always picking fights with me!", and then we started recalling all the battles we had in the world. Over time, we got to know each other and became in-game and IRL friends, as we played together all the way through WoD, at which point he left the game because he had real-life issues that came up... but that didn't stop us from being friends after that. It's one of a few memorable social moments that all started with some random person ganking a guildmate, but developed into something much more.
    The elimination of such hard forced social elements killed the game, and MMO in general, more than anyelse else ever could.

    Comparing modern MMO to, say, classic Everquest? Where you HAD to group up to do content from the start? I would say modern is certainly more fun from a gameplay standpoint for sure. But I have far more memorable memories of those EQ days or even doing dungeons before LFG in WoW than I do in automated matching systems we have now.


    Yes I realize classic doesn't have those. But the damage has been done, even without them people still take the fast paced "DO IT DO IT NOW HURRY HURRY DONT TALK" mentality of auto-matching
    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    Be aware that felplague is about the biggest blizzard shill there is, not much point in trying to discuss anything with them, if you make a point they'll just ignore it and attack from some other angle.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Be that as it may, Vizzle is right on this one.

    I still get a chuckle knowing Bobby hates that pic that makes him look like a devil cause it affects his dating potential.
    That being said he is an evil cunt. this is from back in his Activision MW2 days

    Activision Blizzard CEO Bobby Kotick has been on fire this week. At the Deutsche Bank Securities Technology Conference in San Francisco he made a number of comments that seem to have been calculated to explode the heads of gamers, developers, and anyone who cares a jot about the industry. In a wide-ranging speech, Kotick – who earned $14m last year – dropped a number of bombs about Activision's future plans, none of which were designed to make anyone happy apart from Activision shareholders.

    Essentially, Kotick is in thrall to the almighty dollar to the expense of all else. Thus: "In the last cycle of videogames you spent $50 on a game, played it and took it back to the shop for credit. Today, we'll (charge) $100 for a guitar. You might add a microphone or drums; you might buy two or three expansions packs, different types of music. Over the life of your ownership you'll probably buy around 25 additional song packs in digital downloads. So, what used to be a $50 sale is a $500 sale today."


    https://www.gamespot.com/articles/ac.../1100-6226758/
    https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...g-else-opinion

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